Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

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Vagabond

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Shockingly few votes, and lots of :drama:, so I went with this. There's more than enough of it (Thailand, Spain, Belgium, the United-for-Now Kingdom, etc.) to go around.

@SHARPIE, please feel free to change the title.
 
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Jenny

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Just caught up on pages of overnight discussion and can't believe there's so much discussion on a 30 minute flight delay! From Heathrow! Welcome to modern air travel people. But onward. Key things I'm thinking about this morning:

I read the website, and this "financially independent" talk is complete bollocks (correct use of British term?). The Sovereign Grant covers a mere 5% of their expenses, so it's nothing. The big issue is the other 95%, which they seem to think they will continue to get - and deserve apparently - from the Duchy of Cornwall. Taking money from a Duchy you do not serve and from your daddy does not equate financial independence!! That entire section of the website makes them sound like spoiled, entitled trust fund kids. Oh, wait.

They left the baby behind. :eek::eek::eek: And now Meghan has left Harry to deal with the mess too?? So much for the two of them being in this together.

More and more this is looking to me like Meghan pushed Harry into this - yeah I'm saying it - and it's been a long time coming. All the signs have been there from the beginning, I won't list them here (the copyright!), but we've talked about all of them (and interestingly, so many of the rumours are turning out to be grounded in fact, as they so often are).

And yes Harry's a grown man, but a vulnerable one who has - perhaps - been desperate to find some grounding, some meaning, some peace and happiness, and thinks he has it in Meghan. And now, I think likely still very much in love with her, he's at the point of no return, doing everything he can no matter how many bridges he burns, no matter how destructive for himself and those around him, he's on that train and he's not getting off. The question is, how much of this does Meghan understand - it's possible she truly does love him and thinks she's saving him from the horrors of everything - but how much either deliberately or instinctively has she done knowing that he'd take it this far?

The geography of this is so telling, it literally appears to illustrate what's going on. Harry's entire life until now, centuries in the making, is on one side of the ocean. What's on the other side? Potential salvation, future happiness, a solution to all his problems.

So is this the most romantic story ever told? Or is it the most tragic?
 
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Andora

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Thanks, Vagabond! Agreed on the title. Keeps it generally and snappy. Before Sussexit, the Swedish royal family was my guilty pleasure to read about in here.

Consider H&M wanted to leave entirely, but knew that wouldn't be ideal? That they want to support the work they started, support family, but not be controlled by them. I'm ignorant enough of Royal b.s. to feel hopeful that's still possible. Shutting it all down just feels silly at this point.

The Guardian on Harry (and to a lesser extent Meghan) and the media:
I know Harry has had some counseling/therapy, but it seems like there is still a lot for him to work through and wherever he ends up, I hope he gets some help.

As for Meghan, my guess is that she probably figured that she knew/knows how to handle media attention - except what works as an actress is not necessarily the right approach for a royal. The (mis)handling of this announcement, as well as some other missteps, probably owes to that, as does her reported unhappiness.

Kate Middleton knew exactly what she was getting herself into, after growing up in the UK and spending years as a royal girlfriend with very little protection from the press. Chelsy Davy and Cressida Bonas probably understood quite well what it would mean to marry into the BRF, too, which is why they attended Harry's wedding only as guests ;)
Is it possible Meghan was a lot more ready for things than we give her credit for, but Harry was not ready for the changes? Which puts her in an awkward position, because her husband is her first priority, not The Firm.

I also disagree Kate knew EXACTLY what she was getting into, though she was certainly better prepared than anyone. I recall a lot of promises from the Crown to support her and learn from past mistakes with previous princesses, if William and Kate waited to make sure they were certain this was what they wanted. I absolutely believe that built a strong partnership between them that will sustain them through a lot, but Kate still has naked photos out there that I don't imagine she expected when she accepted the ring. She's taken years to be comfortable with interviews and more involved public appearances-- again, which is absolutely fine, a great way to help her grow into her role.

SPEAKING of Chelsy Davy, one of the first, best comments I saw was wanting to be a fly on the wall when she found out Harry was stepping back. :lol: But I'm sure that's pure conjecture - she attended their wedding, after all.

It's very interesting to me, this announcement. There's a huge section of social media that is revelling in it in a very very pro-Meghan, go girl, down with the monarchy way. From what I can tell, it's probably the same section of twitter that loves it when Beyonce does something cool, or other TV stars or musicians etc.

So, from an entertainment 'mike drop' perspective, this was a win for Meghan and Harry.

But on the other hand, there's situations like this, where organisations were relying on Harry's input. Although if he does go ahead and honour these commitments, I expect they will get more attention than they would have otherwise!!

Most North American social media is not supportive from an entertainment standpoint. I've seen most people relate to this in a more human way vs. viewing celebrities in the wild. Lots of toxic situation comments, dissertations on racism and the press and old institutions that really need to eff off with all the traditional rules, "how it's done" minutiae. All this focus on the stability of the heirs is tone deaf. Reminding us that there's plenty of entitled generations to come while the world tries to spin off its axis, just didn't land enough with everyone.
 

Lorac

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SPEAKING of Chelsy Davy, one of the first, best comments I saw was wanting to be a fly on the wall when she found out Harry was stepping back. :lol: But I'm sure that's pure conjecture - she attended their wedding, after all.
I'll be honest and say I always felt Chelsy Davy was the love of Harry's life. If she hadn't broken up with him I think he would have eventually proposed and if she'd accepted I suspect Harry wouldn't be the angry young man he is today. However Chelsy couldn't deal with the press intrusion - she saw how Kate was treated in her early days and decided it wasn't for her. Harry already blamed the media - incorrectly IMO - for his Mothers untimely death and when Chelsy broke up with him the 2nd time that just cemented his opinion of the media.

As to her attending the wedding - well what better way for the new bride to ensure her new hubby's old ex's know who has won the prize so to speak :D
 

Judy

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They are both adults capable of making decisions on their life. I am not goin to read the British tabloid on this. Harry is not going to be king ... live and let live.
 

mella

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Just read a Daily Fail article (don't judge me while I hate to give them the clicks I read occasionally to make sure I know what batshit crazy stuff is circulating on various topics). They referred to the current situation as "the abdication crisis".

Now whilst I agree it's technically a correct usage of the word, way to exaggerate Harry's importance while writing articles that bemoan his inflated sense of importance.

These newspapers really are ridiculous! :lol:
 

MsZem

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As to her attending the wedding - well what better way for the new bride to ensure her new hubby's old ex's know who has won the prize so to speak :D
I don't think either Chelsy Davy or Cressida Bonas regrets the decision they made. Bonas got engaged a few months ago and gets to live the life she wants. Davy doesn't have to live in a royal fishbowl, which she clearly did not want.

William is lucky to have found someone at a young age who was able to figure out how to fit into his world.

In non-British royal news, a cool achievement for Princess Salma of Jordan:
 

becca

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I don't think either Chelsy Davy or Cressida Bonas regrets the decision they made. Bonas got engaged a few months ago and gets to live the life she wants. Davy doesn't have to live in a royal fishbowl, which she clearly did not want.

William is lucky to have found someone at a young age who was able to figure out how to fit into his world.

In non-British royal news, a cool achievement for Princess Salma of Jordan:
Cool for Princess Salma.

I find words like betrayal are much. Harry and Meghan should be free to live their own lives.

However I think if they expect the public to fund their security or Charles to fund then that’s different.

Here is an article too.

I cannot help wondering the wisdom of this. Especially for two people not in the direct line.
 

JasperBoy

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If Meghan is flying into Victoria today she might have a problem. Many flights are cancelled due to heavy rain and winds.
 

Jenny

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An interesting poll result from within one of the many articles out there now -

A YouGov poll of 1,327 Britons found that 45 per cent supported the couple's decision to step away from royal life, but 63 per cent believed their Duchy of Cornwall funding should end.
 

mella

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I don't have a view on whether Duchy of Cornwall should pay their expenses... but I do have a view on it being exempt from paying tax...
 
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Vagabond

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I don't have a view on whether thought of Cornwall should pay their expenses... but I do have a view on it being exempt from paying tax...
Could have been the thread title. :wuzrobbed

Could be the title of some Poldark fanfic. :unsure:
 

mag

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I don't have a view on whether thought of Cornwall should pay their expenses... but I do have a view on it being exempt from paying tax...
Both the Queen and Prince Charles do pay tax. The sovereign grant returns a portion of the Queen’s taxes back to her to fund her public duties. She disperses this money to her family as she sees fit. Harry and Meghan had been receiving 5% of their income from the sovereign grant.

Charles only has control of the Dutchy of Cornwall while he is the Prince of Wales, given that he doesn’t support his siblings I can’t imagine there being the expectation that William would support his. One may not like the “all goes to the oldest child” method, but it is not it is a surprise to anyone. Harry is much better off than Charles’ siblings because of his inheritance from his mother and the fact he received a much larger share from the Queen Mother than, I believe, the other grandchildren.

I agree that the Sussex’s should definitely pay tax. If they are living in Canada for 6 months they should also be paying tax here.
 

Lorac

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I don't have a view on whether thought of Cornwall should pay their expenses... but I do have a view on it being exempt from paying tax...
But the Duchy does pay income tax on a voluntary basis even though it is exempt.
 

mella

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Could have been the thread title. :wuzrobbed

Could be the title of some Poldark fanfic. :unsure:
:lol: oops!!! Corrected.

Both the Queen and Prince Charles do pay tax. The sovereign grant returns a portion of the Queen’s taxes back to her to fund her public duties. She disperses this money to her family as she sees fit. Harry and Meghan had been receiving 5% of their income from the sovereign grant.
I'm well aware. See below.

But the Duchy does pay income tax on a voluntary basis even though it is exempt.
Yes. But as a principal I object to the fact that it's voluntary payment against an exemption. But that's a discussion about UK tax system not the royal family so I'll leave it at that ;).

My point was that given that he gets to choose whether or not to pay taxes I don't see that it's relevant how he chooses to spend the rest.
 

mag

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My point was that given that he gets to choose whether or not to pay taxes I don't see that it's relevant how he chooses to spend the rest.
I agree. I only wonder what William will choose to do. Unfortunately that choice may come sooner rather than later.

As a parent, I also wonder at the wisdom of continuing to support an adult child who is more than capable of supporting himself. Granted, I don’t have the kind of income Charles has, but it does seem odd that two essentially middle aged adults would expect to be supported by a parent.
 

starrynight

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I'll be honest and say I always felt Chelsy Davy was the love of Harry's life. If she hadn't broken up with him I think he would have eventually proposed and if she'd accepted I suspect Harry wouldn't be the angry young man he is today. However Chelsy couldn't deal with the press intrusion - she saw how Kate was treated in her early days and decided it wasn't for her. Harry already blamed the media - incorrectly IMO - for his Mothers untimely death and when Chelsy broke up with him the 2nd time that just cemented his opinion of the media.

As to her attending the wedding - well what better way for the new bride to ensure her new hubby's old ex's know who has won the prize so to speak :D
Yes, I think people have short memories when think that Meghan is the first royal girlfriend/wife to have rough treatment. This has been going on a long long time. The trick is more about punching through in the end. But an outspoken American actress was probably always going to have a hard time. It's not like a Princess Mary of Denmark situation where she was foreign, but from an unthreatening, slightly exotic Australia and a low key person. Although, I do understand that she certainly had rough patches with the media in the beginning of her marriage.

As for some of the crazy things said in the media, it actually makes me think of figure skating a bit. Maybe like the Yuna Bots or the crazy section of the Virtue/Moir fandom or the Fanyus. They are vocal and crazy, but it's only a part of the figure skating world. So many people still love and appreciate Yuna Kim, Sotnikova, a range of ice dancers, Nathan Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu regardless. People turn up to competitions and have a good time. But if you only read social media comments, you'd just think that the skating world was full of psychos.

Meghan kind of makes me think of that new work colleague who rushes into a workplace full of people who have been there 10 to 20 years and wants to change everything immediately. There's a lot of big ideas, the undercurrent that the person wants to push everyone else out of their jobs, and then it usually comes to a head, the person becomes disillusioned and they leave (relatively quickly). I've had quite a few people come through my work like that.
 

MsZem

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Yes, I think people have short memories when think that Meghan is the first royal girlfriend/wife to have rough treatment. This has been going on a long long time. The trick is more about punching through in the end. But an outspoken American actress was probably always going to have a hard time. It's not like a Princess Mary of Denmark situation where she was foreign, but from an unthreatening, slightly exotic Australia and a low key person. Although, I do understand that she certainly had rough patches with the media in the beginning of her marriage.
Women who married European royals have definitely received their share of criticism - it just gets less attention than the BRF. With Mette Marit it was her wild past so to speak (partying and drug use), with Maxima it was her father's past (he was not allowed to attend her wedding) and Sofia got trashed for being a former glamour model and reality TV contestant. None of them deserved it and eventually they won people over. But I can't imagine it was easy to experience that.
 

starrynight

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Women who married European royals have definitely received their share of criticism - it just gets less attention than the BRF. With Mette Marit it was her wild past so to speak (partying and drug use), with Maxima it was her father's past (he was not allowed to attend her wedding) and Sofia got trashed for being a former glamour model and reality TV contestant. None of them deserved it and eventually they won people over. But I can't imagine it was easy to experience that.
And I think the ways of aristocracy are hard to grasp for those who live in societies that don't have class structures.

I had it explained by a UK friend once - and maybe some others here could do a better job - and she said it's just like this closed off club that outsiders don't get let into, regardless of how much money you might have. Like actual clubs and restaurants only for aristocracy, that sort of thing.
 

mag

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Another interview, this time on a Canadian news network. (Yes, I am still sick on the couch surfing YouTube!)


There seems to be a lot of support for Harry and Meghan to live their own lives. The question that comes up is that they can’t really do both - earn money privately and then have tours etc funded by the taxpayer.
 

starrynight

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The Royal Family is a tough gig in the sense that it's a public servant role - quite akin to that of being a member of parliament or a prime minister, but you don't choose the role, you are born into it.

And being a royal is much like being a member of a political party too. There's a party line which needs to be towed and an image of stability that needs to be projected.

The constant lashing that politicians receive (particularly in the social media age) is breathtaking, but they choose that life and are usually of the personality types that can deal with it. Any hopeful politician who can't deal with the rat race is weeded out pretty early on.

But you do wonder where that leaves us, if only the most arrogant and thick skinned and single minded leaders can survive in the pressure cooker of modern politics in the 24 hour news cycle age. I wonder if that's why the world leadership is like it is. Anyway, off topic.
 
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Judy

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The Royal Family is a tough gig in the sense that it's a public servant role - quite akin to that of being a member of parliament or a prime minister, but you don't choose the role, you are born into it.

And being a royal is much like being a member of a political party too. There's a party line which needs to be towed and an image of stability that needs to be projected.

The constant lashing that politicians receive (particularly in the social media age) is breathtaking, but they choose that life and are usually of the personality types that can deal with it. Any hopeful politician who can't deal with the rat race is weeded out pretty early on.

But you do wonder where that leaves us, if only the most arrogant and thick skinned and single minded leaders can survive in the pressure cooker of modern politics in the 24 hour news cycle age. I wonder if that's why the world leadership is like it is. Anyway, off topic.
oh for sure .. I could never be a politician lol.
 

MacMadame

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As a parent, I also wonder at the wisdom of continuing to support an adult child who is more than capable of supporting himself. Granted, I don’t have the kind of income Charles has, but it does seem odd that two essentially middle aged adults would expect to be supported by a parent.
How about if that middle-aged adult was part of the family business and had expenses related to that? Because it's more like that. The Senior Royals have duties and expenses that are a direct result of being royal. But they aren't allowed to earn an income. So the money has to come from somewhere. It makes sense for it to come from "the firm."

What I don't understand is why someone, as removed from the throne (and only likely to become more removed over time, not less) as Harry, would be considered a Senior Royal anyway. I would think that once William married and had an heir that Harry would be phased out as a Senior as a matter of course. Doesn't this seem to be what Charles wants with his streamlining the royalty?
 

starrynight

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What I don't understand is why someone, as removed from the throne (and only likely to become more removed over time, not less), would be considered a Senior Royal anyway. I would think that once William married and had an heir that Harry would be phased out as a Senior as a matter of course. Doesn't this seem to be what Charles wants with his streamlining the royalty?
I think it would only make sense to streamline Harry out once the Cambridge children are old enough to start doing engagements themselves.

Right now, Charles is in his 70s and William and Kate have three young kids. There's still overseas tours to do and lots of local engagements and the burden does need to be shared. It's a loss not having Harry and Meghan any more from that perspective.

Meghan and Harry did together something over 500 engagements last year. So now, either that is split between other members of the family, or the engagements don't happen. Meghan and Harry are very much front and centre at the moment. If they weren't none of this would even be happening because no one would care. A bit like how often do Prince Edward and Sophie Wessex make the front papers? That's what it means to not be a central royal.
 

MacMadame

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But both of us are saying there should be a plan to phase them out in favor of those closer to the throne / in the immediate family of the heir, right? So the question is: why doesn't that happen automatically? And if it does happen, why didn't Harry and Meghan just wait it out?
 
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