Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

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mag

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A Canadian perspective:



Valid criticism:
Meghan: Going to Wimbledon, getting your seat and the rest of the area cleared because of who you are, and then insisting you are there in a private capacity. To make matters worse, your staff then makes negative assumptions about those around you which affect their enjoyment. That is: affects the enjoyment of people who actually paid for their ticket. (It has occurred to me that instructions for clearing seats and photos may have come from Harry - that part may not be Meghan’s fault.)

Harry/Meghan: Telling an interviewer that “not many people have asked how I am doing” inferring that other reporters on the tour should have, when you have made absolutely no attempt to even meet the reporters who are traveling with you (away from their families) to cover stuff that is important to you and to make you look good. Furthermore, it is even richer now given all the reporting about how rude Harry has been to the Royal Press Corp. They are doing their job. You don’t have to like it, but you should at least be polite.

Harry: Standing up on stage and giving a a cringe worthy speech about climate change and telling people to “use less water” etc etc, and then taking four private flights in the space of about 2 weeks. When you are called on it, instead of just owning it and apologizing for being hypocritical, you say it was to keep your family safe. No one, and I mean, no one, is due two highly exclusive, luxury vacation in less than a month. If there are security concerns, and you have just told hard working people to cut back to fight climate change - stay home.

For what it is worth, given what I have read in the last few days, I think this is 100% on Harry. I think he is an extremely angry person who has many, many unresolved issues. I think Meghan is now just doing whatever she can to keep him from losing it completely.
 

manhn

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Are Canadians upset? I know some are, but really who’s revolting over free timbits? 1.7 million does not seem all that high? Is there absolutely no economic value in them living in Canada? Is it just all a money pit?
 

mag

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Are Canadians upset? I know some are, but really who’s revolting over free timbits? 1.7 million does not seem all that high? Is there absolutely no economic value in them living in Canada? Is it just all a money pit?
Tim Hortons is battling their employees over minimum wage. If you can’t pay your employees properly, offering free coffee to people who are in the top .1% seems a bit tone def at best.

Canadians pay very high taxes.

  • 15% on the first $47,630 of taxable income, plus
  • 20.5% on the next $47,629 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 47,630 up to $95,259), plus
  • 26% on the next $52,408 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $95,259 up to $147,667), plus
  • 29% on the next $62,704 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 147,667 up to $210,371), plus
  • 33% of taxable income over $210,371
This is just federal tax and does not include provincial or municipal or sales tax. Or a dozen other taxes like property purchase tax. There are also payroll deductions for CPP, EI among other things. If Harry and Meghan would like to move all their money to Canada and pay tax on all of it, we can talk. Until then, yes, there is a petition against paying for their security that garnered over 10,000 signatures in the first hour.

There are thousands of not for profits, veterans’ groups, schools, daycares, First Nations, homeless etc who would really like even just a slice of $1.7million per year. There are also small businesses who, if they could get investment, could produce far more “economic value” that Harry and Meghan.

Every dime the government has comes from taxpayers. Every dime spent on one thing means there is a dime less for something else. $1.7million may not seem like much when you consider the entire budget, but it is, and it should not be spent without care or thought.
 

manhn

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Again, is there no financial gain with them coming to the country? Then don’t use our taxes. Somehow, these refrains don’t take any account the potential revenue with their presence. The publicity over the seaplane from Victoria to Vancouver and the DTES Women’s Centre was worth nothing?

Support your local coffee shop, but again I roll my eyes over the Tim Hortons controversy. I am sure tons of regular customers have stopped visiting.
 

becca

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Tim Hortons is battling their employees over minimum wage. If you can’t pay your employees properly, offering free coffee to people who are in the top .1% seems a bit tone def at best.

Canadians pay very high taxes.

  • 15% on the first $47,630 of taxable income, plus
  • 20.5% on the next $47,629 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 47,630 up to $95,259), plus
  • 26% on the next $52,408 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $95,259 up to $147,667), plus
  • 29% on the next $62,704 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 147,667 up to $210,371), plus
  • 33% of taxable income over $210,371
This is just federal tax and does not include provincial or municipal or sales tax. Or a dozen other taxes like property purchase tax. There are also payroll deductions for CPP, EI among other things. If Harry and Meghan would like to move all their money to Canada and pay tax on all of it, we can talk. Until then, yes, there is a petition against paying for their security that garnered over 10,000 signatures in the first hour.

There are thousands of not for profits, veterans’ groups, schools, daycares, First Nations, homeless etc who would really like even just a slice of $1.7million per year. There are also small businesses who, if they could get investment, could produce far more “economic value” that Harry and Meghan.

Every dime the government has comes from taxpayers. Every dime spent on one thing means there is a dime less for something else. $1.7million may not seem like much when you consider the entire budget, but it is, and it should not be spent without care or thought.

Apparently the Globe and Mail presented an editorial about they felt it was a constitutional issue. Canada liked their monarchy far far away and Canadians don’t have titles.

I don’t think that’s necessarily the mood in Canada but...it’s a bit much. But.

Well let’s just say Buckingham palace was right about their being complex issues involved. Who pays for security etc.
 
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mag

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Again, is there no financial gain with them coming to the country? Then don’t use our taxes. Somehow, these refrains don’t take any account the potential revenue with their presence. The publicity over the seaplane from Victoria to Vancouver and the DTES Women’s Centre was worth nothing?
I am cynical enough to say that I am fairly sure Harry and Meghan hope you see it that way. Lots of people provide financial gain; it doesn’t mean they get to be subsidized by my tax dollars. We have enough of that already. If the federal government have a spare $1.7 million a year hanging around, invest it in green energy startups and insist the Sussexes pay their own way. I am sure H&M would approve of that.
 

overedge

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It’s what a lot of the polls in the U.K. and Canada are saying. They can do what they want but we don’t want to pay for their security.
Oh come on, you can't be this clueless. The polls say that a certain number of Canadians and Brits feel this way. Not all of them. You said "Canadians are saying" and "the public in the UK is upset" which implies that everyone in those countries has the same opinion.

Plus the most recent Canadian poll surveyed just over 1,100 people. Canada has a population of 37 million people. 1,100 is not even close to being a representative sample.
 

AxelAnnie

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None of those are inherited. By that argument we have titles in the US given that President Obama is still called President Obama.
That is not the kind of title we are talking about of course . His daughters do not inherit the title.
 

overedge

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None of those are inherited. By that argument we have titles in the US given that President Obama is still called President Obama.
And not all of the titles in the UK are inherited either. What's your point?
 

Japanfan

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Oh come on, you can't be this clueless. The polls say that a certain number of Canadians and Brits feel this way. Not all of them. You said "Canadians are saying" and "the public in the UK is upset" which implies that everyone in those countries has the same opinion.
Do you know or have you heard of any Canadians who think it is fine for the Canada Government to pay H/M's security for six months a year? There are probably some who do. I certainly don't want any of my tax dollars going to H/M's security.
 

overedge

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Do you know or have you heard of any Canadians who think it is fine for the Canada Government to pay H/M's security for six months a year? There are probably some who do. I certainly don't want any of my tax dollars going to H/M's security.
Here's some of those people: the 253 respondents to this poll who thought it was OK.

But I'm not going to assume that anything I've heard, or the opinions of anyone I know, accurately represents the feelings of 37 million people.
 

starrynight

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I imagine that a bit of the animosity in the Canadian press might be linked to Trudeau (allegedly who knows) saying that Meghan and Harry’s security would be attended to in Canada. People often don’t like politicians promising chunks of money for things.
 

becca

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And not all of the titles in the UK are inherited either. What's your point?
The point is Harry’s titles are hereditary because he is the son of the heir to the British throne. There is no inherited titles in Canada. Those tiles you mentioned none of them are inherited. We have similar titles in US.

Your right overedge polls don’t speak for everyone but is there a reason why the idea of paying for them would be popular in Canada after all they aren’t planning on doing ceremonial roles there.

Yes the British monarchy brings tourism but they aren’t bringing Buckingham palace etc with them.
 
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overedge

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The point is Harry’s titles are hereditary because he is the son of the heir to the British throne. There is no inherited titles in Canada. Those tiles you mentioned none of them are inherited. We have similar titles in US.
Meghan's title isn't inherited either. She got it from marrying Harry. Kate got her title from marrying William. Why does it matter if the title is inherited or not? The titles in Canada are still titles granted by the Queen. And so are the life peer titles in the UK.

Your right overedge polls don’t speak for everyone but is there a reason why the idea of paying for them would be popular in Canada after all they aren’t planning on doing ceremonial roles there.
If you agree that polls don't speak for everyone, then stop saying "Canadians feel this" or "people in the UK feel this".
 

Rainbow

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Oh come on, you can't be this clueless. The polls say that a certain number of Canadians and Brits feel this way. Not all of them. You said "Canadians are saying" and "the public in the UK is upset" which implies that everyone in those countries has the same opinion.

Plus the most recent Canadian poll surveyed just over 1,100 people. Canada has a population of 37 million people. 1,100 is not even close to being a representative sample.
Statistically speaking, the number of 1100 would be enough for the survey to be deemed representative. It is enough for Germany with more than 80 million people to be considered representative. It rather depends on how the surveyed individuals were chosen (randamly) and if their chracteristics represent the country, as in their gender, age, distribution around the country etc
 
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overedge

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Statistically speaking, the number of 1100 would be enough for the survey to be deemed representative. It is enough for Germany with more than 80 million people to be considered representative. It rather depends on how the surveyed individuals were chosen (randamly) and if their chracteristics represent the country, as in their gender, age, distribution around the country etc
The methodology section of the report says the respondents were randomly selected from a group that had already signed up to be part of an online forum. So no, the respondents aren't really random. There's also the methodological problem that people who sign up specifically to participate in opinion polls may sign up because they have strong opinions that they want to express, and may not have views that represent the whole population.
 
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Rainbow

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The methodology section of the report says the respondents were randomly selected from a group that had already signed up to be part of an online forum. So no, the respondents aren't really random. There's also the methodological problem that people who sign up specifically to participate in opinion polls may sign up because they have strong opinions that they want to express, and may not have views that represent the whole population.
Academically, that would be accepted as representative then. Exactly these sort of plattforms are often specifically created for scientic research.
 

Japanfan

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Academically, that would be accepted as representative then. Exactly these sort of plattforms are often specifically created for scientic research.
If the group was selected from respondents who had already signed up to be a part of an online form, then I agree with @overedge that the sample is not representative of the general population. Not at all. It seems obvious to me. I'm not an expert, but as an academic editor, I have certainly edited a lot of documents based on studies in which various sampling methods are used. Snowball sampling might be appropriate for studies involving a very limited population, but is certainly not suitable for a general population - and nor is a population that signed up to be part of an online forum. It excludes far too many people.
 
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ribbon

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One of the complicated issues I think that needs to be worked out is their private visits. Meghan visited two places in Vancouver talking about women’s issues. Ok, great. But, wait, is she representing the Crown or solely the Sussex foundation? Is her support of these groups under the umbrella of the Commonwealth role the Queen had given them, and is therefore of interest to the UK as well, or was it an independent visit? If she is quoted in the press, are her comments to be seen as representing the Queen or not? I worry Harry and Meghan haven’t thought about this much and are eager to jump into causes in Canada...as worthwhile as it may be to shine a spotlight on various charities, it also creates a headache for the palace at the present moment (before details are hammered out on their role). Plus, I would imagine there are some British organizations wondering why Canadian charities will get attention and visits for at least half a year when she is still known and is referred to repeatedly as the Duchess of Sussex. It’s quite different than a royal tour.
 

taf2002

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Every dime the government has comes from taxpayers. Every dime spent on one thing means there is a dime less for something else. $1.7million may not seem like much when you consider the entire budget, but it is, and it should not be spent without care or thought.
Every dime mag? Canada doesn't own any federal land or natural resources? I do know Canada gets revenue from the US for the electricity from Niagara's hydroelectric plant.

I don't know why any Canadian is freaking about the security issue. Once it's a done deal if you don't like the solution, then complain. But complaining about something that hasn't happened yet is ridiculous. And boring. There's a lot we don't know yet. Why don't we all just wait & see?
 

AxelAnnie

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I imagine that a bit of the animosity in the Canadian press might be linked to Trudeau (allegedly who knows) saying that Meghan and Harry’s security would be attended to in Canada. People often don’t like politicians promising chunks of money for things.
Unless it is THEIR thing.
 

mag

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Every dime mag? Canada doesn't own any federal land or natural resources? I do know Canada gets revenue from the US for the electricity from Niagara's hydroelectric plant.
Who do you think owns that land and those resources? Money, no matter how much you have, is finite. That means money spent on Harry and Meghan is not available to spend elsewhere. I also completely disagree in waiting and complaining. One, because in a democracy it is irresponsible, and two, once a decision has been announced, it is unlikely to be reversed. The more talk there about this (okay, not specifically on FSU) the more information the government has. Petitions, talk shows etc provide the government with needed real time feedback about how taxpayers are feeling.

As for here on FSU, it is not like there is a ton of other royal news being posted and ignored. If someone has something else to talk about, bring it on.
 

Judy

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Every dime mag? Canada doesn't own any federal land or natural resources? I do know Canada gets revenue from the US for the electricity from Niagara's hydroelectric plant.

I don't know why any Canadian is freaking about the security issue. Once it's a done deal if you don't like the solution, then complain. But complaining about something that hasn't happened yet is ridiculous. And boring. There's a lot we don't know yet. Why don't we all just wait & see?
of course. However, Canadians are highly taxed therefore we bitch all the time lol.
 

Zemgirl

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As for here on FSU, it is not like there is a ton of other royal news being posted and ignored. If someone has something else to talk about, bring it on.
Well, King Harald has been released from the hospital :)

And Victoria and Daniel were out supporting a good cause:
 
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MacMadame

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And I was reading if they reside in US we may have to pay!
So you read something where someone gave their opinion that if H&M move to the US (unlikely) that we might have to pay for their security. IOW, it's all speculation and opinon. But it feeds your narrative that these two are entitled and greedy so let's all get upset about it!

after all they aren’t planning on doing ceremonial roles there.
Again we don't know that.

It's fun to speculate, but when people take their speculation and opinions and use it to bash people over what they've decided those people think in their heart, that's not fun anymore IMO.
 

mag

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@Zemgirl I hadn’t realize there were 17 Swedish citizens on the plane shot down by Iran. So very sad. On a happier note, Victoria and Daniel look like very warm and engaging people.
 
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