Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

[clairecloutier]

I like this analysis of the situation in The Guardian:

Move by Prince Harry and Meghan signals a slimmed-down future

Move by Prince Harry and Meghan signals a slimmed-down future

Duke and Duchess of Sussex look to forge an untested path by stepping back from public duties

www.theguardian.com

This piece points out that recent PR moves from the Queen and Charles (the pictures on the table during the Queen's speech, the Queen-and-her-3-heirs statement pic) made clear that the Sussexes were somewhat of an afterthought to the Queen's and Charles's vision of the royalty's future. And it's true that the Sussexes might have caused a bit of that feeling themselves via their own choices. But fundamentally, the fact is that, dynastically speaking, Harry & Meghan really are not very important at this point. And practically, that was always going to play out in some way. It's a classic problem in aristocratic culture: What to do with the second son? (Or later sons?) In this case, the basic problem is amplified by the presence of Meghan, a woman not raised in Britain and therefore not fully aware of or compliant with British societal expectations or conventions. In a sense, you could say William was "right" in his fears that marrying Meghan might lead Harry away from traditional expectations of how a young royal couple should live.

But, I would argue, it is what it is. I would suggest the Royal family stop fighting it. Work with Harry and Meghan on defining a new role and new path for young royals. Not everyone can fall as neatly into the traditional model as William and Kate have. (And legitimate questions could be raised about how beneficial that "traditional model" really is, and how happy this family really is, away from the cameras. I saw that clip of Kate shrugging off William's touch during their Xmas special. Kate is all smiles for the public, sure. But is she smiling behind the scenes??)

I kind of like how Meghan and Harry are interested in redefining traditional roles and living their lives the way they want to and not just living as tradition demands. It's a modern approach. I perceive the outraged response as another indication of archaic, inertly conventional expectations of the Royal family.

 

[Jenny]

Sadly there will be a terrible price to pay for both of them - she's already the new Wallis - and she will continue to be the excuse for many here in the UK to indulge their hatred of both blacks and Americans.

Agree re bias toward blacks and Americans (and maybe non-Brits in general, this being the Brexit era), and will further add bias against anyone without the "proper" breeding that some think is required to marry into the Royal Family, or to be worthy in any way. Doesn't help that she's in the entertainment business, and divorced.

Beyond that, I suspect that before this announcement there was already a feeling that Meghan is somehow stealing Harry away from the public who feel some ownership having watched him grow up and "adopted" him when he lost his mother, so it's not a great leap now that he's actually doing it that Meghan must to blame.

I don’t think H&M will have to worry about money. They are both independently wealthy and, assuming they will take sound financial advice, they will be fine. They will always have friends and “friends” who are willing to host them in vacation villa’s and fly them in private planes.
(snip)
It will worry me if they move away from Harry’s family completely. Meghan essentially has no contact with her family except her mother. That is not a very good support network for parents with a young child.

You've noted several times that they are "both independently wealthy." Do we know this for sure? Yes Harry would have some inheritances and private income, but how much of it is truly independent and not tied up in trusts with a ton of conditions?

Meghan was part of an ensemble cast of a lesser tv show with few other acting credits, and probably no family money, so how is it that she is wealthy? Am I missing something?

While it's true as you and others have pointed out that friends in high places can fuel a jetset lifestyle, when it comes down the reality of maintaining two homes, the necessary security and other staff (hello childcare), the constant world travel and a plan that seems to be mostly based on charity work, I'm thinking they are going to have to work very hard and spread themselves very thin to make this work.
(snip)
Your final statement above says a lot. She's down to only her mother and handful of close friends scattered across a lot of geography by the sounds of things, and now Harry is essentially cutting off his entire family, including his brother and sister in law with whom he was until very recently very close to by all appearances. Where is his support network? That's worrying, given his recent interviews and apparent state of mind.

To me, with a new marriage and a young family and a helluva lot of personal baggage for both of them, now is when they most need the support and love of people they can trust, and yet at ever turn they seem to be further isolating themselves. Very sad, very worrisome.

All posts that 100% blame Meghan without explaining why are racist. They would not say the same if she was white.

Without question the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on FSU in 20 years.

 

[floskate]

Let's be fair here; if it's true then as soon as Prince Phillip told Harry that actresses were for 'stepping out with' but not marrying or however he phrased it, well the whole situation was doomed. If we know about that then Meghan sure as hell does and why would you even want to be around people who have prejudged you based on your career, background, ethnicity, whatever. How can you ever build meaningful relationships with people who are such inherent snobs and truly believe that you are beneath them?

 

[Judy]

Wasn't she becoming a British citizen at the time of her marriage?

I would assume. Yes a British citizen can stay in Canada 6 months. Just because they vacationed in Victoria doesn’t mean they would choose Canada though. The press would be easier here though but so would America as nothing is like the British press.

 

[Cachoo]

Oh well they can always trot Andrew out for an appearance or two. Seriously, I like experimentation: Just because the grey men (people?) who run things behind the scenes won't like them coloring outside of the lines doesn't mean it won't work. Innovation isn't bad and the press can be obnoxious in North America but we don't hold a candle to the intrusiveness of Fleet Street.

 

[taf2002]

I'm sure that HMQ was consulted, since they said that they will continue to support her.

I agree. I don't believe reports that this was a huge surprise for HM & Charles. That would be so far out of character for Harry that it's ludicrous. Some rag probably made it up & all the other news outlets just copied it.

 

[becca]

I like this analysis of the situation in The Guardian:

Move by Prince Harry and Meghan signals a slimmed-down future

Move by Prince Harry and Meghan signals a slimmed-down future

Duke and Duchess of Sussex look to forge an untested path by stepping back from public duties

www.theguardian.com

This piece points out that recent PR moves from the Queen and Charles (the pictures on the table during the Queen's speech, the Queen-and-her-3-heirs statement pic) made clear that the Sussexes were somewhat of an afterthought to the Queen's and Charles's vision of the royalty's future. And it's true that the Sussexes might have caused a bit of that feeling themselves via their own choices. But fundamentally, the fact is that, dynastically speaking, Harry & Meghan really are not very important at this point. And practically, that was always going to play out in some way. It's a classic problem in aristocratic culture: What to do with the second son? (Or later sons?) In this case, the basic problem is amplified by the presence of Meghan, a woman not raised in Britain and therefore not fully aware of or compliant with British societal expectations or conventions. In a sense, you could say William was "right" in his fears that marrying Meghan might lead Harry away from traditional expectations of how a young royal couple should live.

But, I would argue, it is what it is. I would suggest the Royal family stop fighting it. Work with Harry and Meghan on defining a new role and new path for young royals. Not everyone can fall as neatly into the traditional model as William and Kate have. (And legitimate questions could be raised about how beneficial that "traditional model" really is, and how happy this family really is, away from the cameras. I saw that clip of Kate shrugging off William's touch during their Xmas special. Kate is all smiles for the public, sure. But is she smiling behind the scenes??)

I kind of like how Meghan and Harry are interested in redefining traditional roles and living their lives the way they want to and not just living as tradition demands. It's a modern approach. I perceive the outraged response as another indication of archaic, inertly conventional expectations of the Royal family.

Well how do Meghan and Harry want to redefine the roles. For example is it involve political causes the British public may not be for that.

As for Kate being happy I don’t think it’s truly any of our business. I think she looks genuinely thrilled when she is with her children.

I suspect she is the type who was unhappy it would not be a subject she would want to discuss with the public. And I further suspect that’s why William married her because he endured the embarrassment of his parents airing their dirty marriage laundry in public.

 

[becca]

I agree. I don't believe reports that this was a huge surprise for HM & Charles. That would be so far out of character for Harry that it's ludicrous. Some rag probably made it up & all the other news outlets just copied it.

It’s BBC saying this furthermore Buckingham palace mentions early stages however Meghan and Harry publishes a website where they discussed finances. If they did this without talking to the palace ironing it out the crown has the right to be furious.

 

[skatesindreams]

Many may wish it to be true; to feed their dislike\hatred for the couple.

 

[floskate]

I do believe that they did discuss their plans with TPTB when they got back from Canada. I can also believe that they did publish the statement without telling HMQ or the PoW for the exact reasons I oulined earlier. It forces the palace to act rather than stall and prevaricate - something we know they are renowned for. It's also a way of gaining some control over a situation they maybe felt they had no control over.

I do not believe that any of this could be a shock to either the Queen, Charles or William. It's been clear as day for months that they were going to leave the UK and if the palace wanted to control every minutae of a stepping back, they should have been more prepared. Instead they're caught on the back foot and everyone is made to look awful.

 

[becca]

Many may wish it to be true; to feed their dislike\hatred for the couple.

I don’t know the couple all that well. That’s what the BBC is reporting furthermore the announcement could have waited till after their sister in laws birthday.

If they want to leave they should be able to leave but seems to me they want a bit of cake and to eat it too and the financial arrangements may be different.
Andrews daughters want more of a role I think why not.

 

[taf2002]

I don’t know the couple all that well. That’s what the BBC is reporting furthermore the announcement could have waited till after their sister in laws birthday.

If they want to leave they should be able to leave but seems to me they want a bit of cake and to eat it too and the financial arrangements may be different.
Andrews daughters want more of a role I think why not.

Kate's birthday? What is she, 5? I'm certain that H&M's announcement didn't ruin her birthday, if she even cares.

 

[Jimena]

I kind of like how Meghan and Harry are interested in redefining traditional roles and living their lives the way they want to and not just living as tradition demands. It's a modern approach. I perceive the outraged response as another indication of archaic, inertly conventional expectations of the Royal family.

I agree. They want to do something different. Kudos to them.

 

[allezfred]

#Megxit

 

[Judy]

Well how do Meghan and Harry want to redefine the roles. For example is it involve political causes the British public may not be for that.

As for Kate being happy I don’t think it’s truly any of our business. I think she looks genuinely thrilled when she is with her children.

I suspect she is the type who was unhappy it would not be a subject she would want to discuss with the public. And I further suspect that’s why William married her because he endured the embarrassment of his parents airing their dirty marriage laundry in public.

I think Kate is very happy. William and her were together a long time and there was a lot of preparation.

 

[kittyjake5]

You know when you think of it HM have not had any time to settle down with each other
as a couple and now with the arrival of baby Archie as a family. They could be going through
personal issues adjusting their lifestyles to family life which is normal, add to that the overwhelming burden
of being a royal. I don't blame them for opting out of the role of Senior Royals.

 

[mag]

You've noted several times that they are "both independently wealthy." Do we know this for sure? Yes Harry would have some inheritances and private income, but how much of it is truly independent and not tied up in trusts with a ton of conditions?

Meghan was part of an ensemble cast of a lesser tv show with few other acting credits, and probably no family money, so how is it that she is wealthy? Am I missing something?

Here is an article from People with some information about their finances:

How Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Will Become 'Financially Independent' from the Royal Family

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle explained the logistics behind their bombshell decision to achieve "financial independence"

people.com

Relying on Prince Charles to support them is not being “financially independent.” Most second (and third and fourth etc.) sons of British aristocracy do not have the kind of money Harry has. He, according to reports at the time of her death, inherited the bulk of Diana’s fortune. She received a very substantial divorce settlement (as she rightly deserved.) Meghan is reported to be worth about 5 million. That alone would be enough to live modestly on, although I can’t see them wanting to live on $15,000 a month which is what that would give them.

Charles is likely to have control over the Dutchy of Cornwall for only a few more years, then it will be Williams to do with what he sees fit. William also has three children to consider. So for all people’s talk about “the men in grey suits” this is a complicated issue that will take time to work out. Trying to force the issue by going public, especially when it seems you still want all the perks of the previous job without any of the responsibility, seems rash at best.

As for trusts, Harry is what, 34? He is more than old enough to making his own decisions about his money. I have no doubt, if his money truly is tied up, that he could petition to get control. Then they would have their financial independence. But that would require they pay their own way, something Harry has never had to do.

While it's true as you and others have pointed out that friends in high places can fuel a jetset lifestyle, when it comes down the reality of maintaining two homes, the necessary security and other staff (hello childcare), the constant world travel and a plan that seems to be mostly based on charity work, I'm thinking they are going to have to work very hard and spread themselves very thin to make this work.

Yep, that is what real life outside the palace walls is like. That is something that Harry will need to learn about.

Your final statement above says a lot. She's down to only her mother and handful of close friends scattered across a lot of geography by the sounds of things, and now Harry is essentially cutting off his entire family, including his brother and sister in law with whom he was until very recently very close to by all appearances. Where is his support network? That's worrying, given his recent interviews and apparent state of mind.

To me, with a new marriage and a young family and a helluva lot of personal baggage for both of them, now is when they most need the support and love of people they can trust, and yet at ever turn they seem to be further isolating themselves. Very sad, very worrisome.

This is what makes me think there is some serious mental illness going on. I have no doubt he has PTSD, and I also wonder a bit about her. The fact that she has isolated herself from essentially her entire family (I know some are crazy, but they can’t all be.) At some point when you through essentially everyone out of your life, you need to ask yourself “is it them or is it me?”

Unfortunately I am not sure the BRF is the family to marry into if you have pre existing mental health issues. It didn’t work so well for Diana.

The whole thing is worrisome because they are human beings who are in pain. Neither H&M nor the BFR have demonstrated that they deal well with these sorts of messy interpersonal situations. The way her father was dealt with around the wedding, the way Diana was dealt with when she was clearly suffering from an eating disorder and probably post partum depression, lead me to believe that this is not going to end with all parties happy and friends. I do hope Meghan understands the importance of family to Harry. It is different for him. They are the only ones he can really trust. With everyone else he will always wonder “what do they want from me?” I rewatched their visit to Canada House. Meghan looks so much better than before their break. Her face is much more relaxed. Harry actually looks a bit shell shocked.

 

[mag]

You know when you think of it HM have not had any time to settle down with each other
as a couple and now with the arrival of baby Archie as a family. They could be going through
personal issues adjusting their lifestyles to family life which is normal, add to that the overwhelming burden
of being a royal. I don't blame them for opting out of the role of Senior Royals.

Sorry for the double post, but this, to me, is exactly why none of this makes sense. Arguably the two most successful Royal marriages in the recent era are Edward and Sophie and William and Kate. Both had long courtships, waited to have their first child, and had a very gradual entry into public Royal life by the new wife. From the get go with the “hit the ground running” and “working through her maternity leave,” the warning signs were there. If they are still adjusting, why not just step back from all the crazy for a while? Get off social media, limit public appearances, hold up in Frogmore, vacation at any one of the many other royal properties or friends places, and get established as a family?

What they have done is leap straight into the crazy! They invited more public scrutiny, more press coverage, more “what are they doing now,” essentially more work. They have not reduced public interest in them, they have increased it exponentially - at least in the short term.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Wasn't she becoming a British citizen at the time of her marriage?

Yes.....and she was going to live at Frogmore (how much was spent on refurbishing the house to her taste).

She wants what she wants when she wants it. Harry is Harry, and at the end of the day has always respected the monarchy and his grandmother.

Meghan wants to have her cake and eat it too. When she discovered she did not have the status she thought due her, she was never going to be on equal footing with W/K I expect she was (stupidly) shocked.

She thought she could have continue to be play lavishly with the Hollywood set, and be a Royal when it was convenient. Doesn't work that way.

There are a gazillion perks to being Royal, and a huge amount of restrictions. It is not a buffet where you choose what you want, and then avoid the rest.

I wonder if Harry will "wake up". He is shunning his entire family.....a family to whom he has shown great allegiance, love and respect.

It is going to be a bumpy road for them.

IMO the Queen did not d

Sorry for the double post, but this, to me, is exactly why none of this makes sense. Arguably the two most successful Royal marriages in the recent era are Edward and Sophie and William and Kate. Both had long courtships, waited to have their first child, and had a very gradual entry into public Royal life by the new wife. From the get go with the “hit the ground running” and “working through her maternity leave,” the warning signs were there. If they are still adjusting, why not just step back from all the crazy for a while? Get off social media, limit public appearances, hold up in Frogmore, vacation at any one of the many other royal properties or friends places, and get established as a family?

What they have done is leap straight into the crazy! They invited more public scrutiny, more press coverage, more “what are they doing now,” essentially more work. They have not reduced public interest in them, they have increased it exponentially - at least in the short term.

Amen to all that! Harry has dealt with this for his entire life. I agree that he is well aware that his family can be trusted. I don't know if one of them is driving all this crazy, or just one.

If you want less spotlight....stop stepping into it. Stop interviews. Lay low. Enjoy this part of your life. There is nothing that will ever come close to having your first child. If you stop churning up the water, the water will become calm.

 

[canbelto]

The truth is Meghan never would have gotten a fraction of the amount of negative coverage had she been a white English rose.

 

[floskate]

Yes.....and she was going to live at Frogmore (how much was spent on refurbishing the house to her taste).

She wants what she wants when she wants it. Harry is Harry, and at the end of the day has always respected the monarchy and his grandmother.

Meghan wants to have her cake and eat it too. When she discovered she did not have the status she thought due her, she was never going to be on equal footing with W/K I expect she was (stupidly) shocked.

She thought she could have continue to be play lavishly with the Hollywood set, and be a Royal when it was convenient. Doesn't work that way.

There are a gazillion perks to being Royal, and a huge amount of restrictions. It is not a buffet where you choose what you want, and then avoid the rest.

I wonder if Harry will "wake up". He is shunning his entire family.....a family to whom he has shown great allegiance, love and respect.

It is going to be a bumpy road for them.

IMO the Queen did not d


Amen to all that! Harry has dealt with this for his entire life. I agree that he is well aware that his family can be trusted. I don't know if one of them is driving all this crazy, or just one.

If you want less spotlight....stop stepping into it. Stop interviews. Lay low. Enjoy this part of your life. There is nothing that will ever come close to having your first child. If you stop churning up the water, the water will become calm.

Piers is that you?

Please educate yourself on the money for Frogmore. It was already allocated and that was the basic cost. Anything H&M wanted above and beyond the basic spec for the renovation came out of their own funds. That 2.4 million would have been spent on Frogmore whether they lived there or not.

 

[MsZem]

Sorry for the double post, but this, to me, is exactly why none of this makes sense. Arguably the two most successful Royal marriages in the recent era are Edward and Sophie and William and Kate. Both had long courtships, waited to have their first child, and had a very gradual entry into public Royal life by the new wife.

I can understand wanting to move quickly given that Meghan and Harry were older than Will and Kate (who began dating while still at university) and Sophie and Edward (who were in their late twenties). They might have been a lot happier now if they too had met when they were younger could have taken more time to get to know each other and ease into royal life. For all the Waity Kaity crap, it seems to have done Kate a world of good not to have to step into royal life before taking a lot of time to get used to the idea and understand the implications.

Your final statement above says a lot. She's down to only her mother and handful of close friends scattered across a lot of geography by the sounds of things, and now Harry is essentially cutting off his entire family, including his brother and sister in law with whom he was until very recently very close to by all appearances. Where is his support network? That's worrying, given his recent interviews and apparent state of mind.

I feel like this is something that William has been very fortunate to find with Kate - not just their own relationship, but having the Middletons become part of his life. It's clear that they're close and supportive of each other; they've been there for Will and Kate and they were there for James when he was struggling with depression.

Meghan's mother seems like a lovely person, but there's one of her and she doesn't live anywhere near them. William and Kate always had the option of checking out for a while just by staying with the Middletons - which isn't likely to attract attention the way going to North America is.

 

[puglover]

Although I have an affection for and interest in all members of the royal family - my clear favorite is the queen and I am biased in her regard. She has been a constant in my life - and - in addition - she and my belated mother could have been sisters. I know that she is a tough old bird and has weathered much both as the sovereign and as a mother and grandmother but as they still deal with the Andrew fiasco I hope everyone else behaves. May Harry and Meghan proceed forward with their plan with plenty of consultation and great care to not injure her in the process.

 

[SHARPIE]

I was away in the lovely Cotswolds last night so didn’t really pay attention to this story bar the “breaking news” headlines. Piers Morgan in the MailOnline has been typically vile again (“Meghan didn‘t want to be my friend... waaah!”) vile. I actually commented on his tirade with the only suitable response of, “Piers, u ok hun?”).

 

[taf2002]

@mag, Meghan has not shunned her whole family, just the Markle side. Her father, brother, & sister have all publically bashed her so I don't blame her for that. She has been photographed with the Doria side - aunts, uncles, cousins.

@AxelAnnie, on what do you base your character assassination? You KNOW "Meghan wants to have her cake and eat it too. When she discovered she did not have the status she thought due her, she was never going to be on equal footing with W/K I expect she was (stupidly) shocked.

She thought she could have continue to be play lavishly with the Hollywood set, and be a Royal when it was convenient. Doesn't work that way."

I love the way you & aftershocks always know what's in her head.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Wasn't she becoming a British citizen at the time of her marriage?

Yes.....and she was going to live at Frogmore (how much was spent on refurbishing the house to her taste).

She wants what she wants when she wants it. Harry is Harry, and at the end of the day has always respected the monarchy and his grandmother.

Meghan wants to have her cake and eat it too. When she discovered she did not have the status she thought due her, she was never going to be on equal footing with W/K I expect she was (stupidly) shocked.

She thought she could have continue to be play lavishly with the Hollywood set, and be a Royal when it was convenient. Doesn't work that way.

There are a gazillion perks to being Royal, and a huge amount of restrictions. It is not a buffet where you choose what you want, and then avoid the rest.

I wonder if Harry will "wake up". He is shunning his entire family.....a family to whom he has shown great allegiance, love and respect.

It is going to be a bumpy road for them.

IMO the Queen did not deserve this. What, their life was so hard (joke) they could not have waited until the Queen died?

 

[SHARPIE]

The truth is Meghan never would have gotten a fraction of the amount of negative coverage had she been a white English rose.

Oh shut up with your agenda! I’m not saying none of the negative coverage Meghan has got is racist but Kate has had YEARS of it!

 

[mag]

Meghan has not shunned her whole family, just the Markle side. Her father, brother, & sister have all publically bashed her so I don't blame her for that. She has been photographed with the Doria side - aunts, uncles, cousins.

I didn’t mean to suggest she had be shunned, simply that she didn’t seem to have much if any contact with them recently. I don’t believe any were at the wedding. I could be wrong about that.

On a different note, a lovely photo of Kate was released to mark her birthday:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/people.com/royals/casual-new-photo-of-kate-middleton-in-jeans-released-for-her-38th-birthday/amp/

 

[MsZem]

The truth is Meghan never would have gotten a fraction of the amount of negative coverage had she been a white English rose.

Kate Middleton is, I suppose, the white English rose in this scenario? She also went to the right schools and had the right accent. And she and her family were the subject of all sorts of classist crap about their social climbing ways.

 

[kittyjake5]

I didn’t mean to suggest she had be shunned, simply that she didn’t seem to have much if any contact with them recently. I don’t believe any were at the wedding. I could be wrong about that.

On a different note, a lovely photo of Kate was released to mark her birthday:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/people.com/royals/casual-new-photo-of-kate-middleton-in-jeans-released-for-her-38th-birthday/amp/

She looks great. Happy 38th Birthday Kate!!