Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Boikova / Kozlovskii are inconsistent while Mishina / Gallaimov have had a stellar debut with being contenders also for NHK podium. B/K barely got 190 in GP last season and were non threats.Fixed that for ya!
I don't see B/K as being all that inconsistent, certainly not more than M/G. The former had some bad luck on the Grand Prix last season, which had as much to do with their assignments as anything else, but they beat M/G at Russian nationals, they won bronze at Europeans, and finished top six at Worlds. They were foot-perfect in their first Grand Prix, while M/G had problems.Boikova / Kozlovskii are inconsistent while Mishina / Gallaimov have had a stellar debut with being contenders also for NHK podium.
yet M/G scored higher in their first GP even with Mishinas step outsI don't see B/K as being all that inconsistent, certainly not more than M/G. The former had some bad luck on the Grand Prix last season, which had as much to do with their assignments as anything else, but they beat M/G at Russian nationals, they won bronze at Europeans, and finished top six at Worlds. They were foot-perfect in their first Grand Prix, while M/G had problems.
You are really, really setting yourself up for disappointment. You need to curb your fandom as you are really starting to annoy people. My suggestion for what it's worth: why don't you just wait till the end of the season to gush about what your favorites did because by then everybody will know exactly what that was. Which is all that counts. Because results are seldom what we hope they will be. There are simply too many variables.
So? If we're talking about who's more likely to be Russian #1 this season, B/K are in front right now. And in any direct head-to-head, B/K would reasonably expect the edge in components.
I have already answered your questions in the other post but I will do it again, to clarify.The Question in CoR pairs ?
Will Tarasova / Morozov continue to struggle and abandon their russian No.1 position to Mishina / Galliamov ?
Will Stolbova / Novosleov debut with a bang ?
Can Boikova / Kozlovskii finally turn around their infamous "headcase" reputation away and prove their SC win wasn't fluke ?
Boikova / Kozlovskii are inconsistent while Mishina / Gallaimov have had a stellar debut with being contenders also for NHK podium. B/K barely got 190 in GP last season and were non threats.
M/G have higher chance to be russian No.1 than B/K imo
a 2-3 points PCS difference in their first GP isnt big at all , M/G can make up technically as B/K are technically weaker.
I'm not 'trying' for anything though. I'm simply sharing what I see and stating how I feel about trends in the pairs discipline. I find what's happening now in ice dance and pairs very exciting. It's a growth-making cross fertilization for both disciplines. I'm presenting my viewpoints in a conversational way, not an antagonistic way. It would be nice if overly defensive fans could recognize that none of this is a negative. For me, this is about having a conversation, which is pretty hard to have when others always seem to think it's about something negative. It's not.I watched both Sui Han and M T M short programs: nothing similar in movement or mood whatsoever. Sui Han Nichol ‘channeling’ Savchenko? Sui Han Nichol ‘adopting’ poses of Manta Johnson? Nice try.
So what. B/K are a much more interesting team at this point, with a lot more personality and connection on display than M/G. Plus B/K have the legendary and inimitable Moskvina on their side and at their side!yet M/G scored higher in their first GP even with Mishinas step outs
I sooo agree! B&K have been nothing but strong and impressive.I have already answered your questions in the other post but I will do it again, to clarify.
If T&M lose their number one position in Russia, it will not be to M&G. B&K have been skating very well and they are likely to be the successors.
B&K were never Headcase, except in your mind. They have been very consistent since last season. Their SC win was no fluke at all, but you can continue to hate them if you wish. In fact M&G’s win could have been a fluke for the simple reason that they skated against a weak pairs field.
No, S&N are not likely to debut with a bang. They are not G&G. I expect several mistakes from them in their first international competition.
For me on first take, it sounded like different renditions of the same composition. But I see that's not the case.Um. Completely different music. Don’t know where you got your facts.
To be fair, M&G have no control over that. They can only beat whoever is there. They can’t control that both Zabijako/Enbert and James/Ciprés withdrew.M&G won in a weak field
Exactly.B&K were never Headcase, except in your mind.
The relatively unusual thing this season is the prospect of there being five different gold medalist teams, if Tarasova/Morozov win Rostelecom. That's the scenario where two silver medals wouldn't be enough.
Okay, gotcha! It’s a bit of an odd situation this year, so I guess we’ll have to wait and see.If T/M win in Russia and MT/M are 2nd at NHK (with M/G 3rd), then P/K would probably be out. They'd be tied on points with MT/M with 2 silvers each, but MT/M only need 194.66 to beat them on the score tiebreak. That's a perfectly plausible scenario.
I think you would also find similarities in singles and dance programs. Perhaps more in singles, actually, given that there is only one skater. Especially in the case of the warhorses - think of all the girls/women who skate to Carmen.For me, this opening move choreographed by Julie Marcotte for M-T/M is reminiscent of some moves in programs by Savchenko/Massot
https://youtu.be/22di5umzMbw?t=40 M-T/M sp Nebelhorn 2019
And there's a similar opening move here by Sui/Han. Not the same move, but it's similar:
https://youtu.be/edsXkkRu8Cc?t=38 Sui/Han sp opening CoC 2019
Plus Sui jumping up and straddling her legs around her partner's waist is very similar to moves we see in ice dance... of course famously taken to the sexy limit by V/M in Moulin Rouge
S/H's new sp is bluesy, yet somewhat similar in theme and even in costuming to M/T-M's last season's rock-themed Pink Floyd medley fp:
FS coaches and skaters watch FS programs and are bound to be influenced by them. There are bound to be some similarities between programs, especially given the technical requirements. How many pairs end their programs with a spin?None of this means 'exact copying.' It means influences and inspirations, as well as spontaneous creativity by choreographers that might be similar to ideas and programs by other choreographers, or in some cases, directly influenced...
Why are you obsessed with B/K's marks from last season? Key word being LAST. Today those marks mean nothing. Last time I saw they are competing THIS season and THIS season they already scored 216 (second only to S/H so far) with a lot more chances to increase their personal best, and reputation along with it, to come.
Placement of elements in programs doesn't necessarily have a great deal to do with pairs innovation and emulation of interesting moves. I think element placement has more bearing on how the structure and layout will work with choreo and music selection, and also the difficulty of individual elements as related to timing and endurance, etc. The placement of spins at the end of programs across most disciplines, except ice dance, has become so boring and predictable. Part of the reason likely has to do with trying to conserve energy to get through difficult elements, thus by default placing the dizzymaking multiple spin requirements last. I think we see the placement of spins moreso at the end of singles programs. Some pairs teams vary in where they place spins...How many pairs end their programs with a spin?
Not at all.I'm not sure whether you are trying to downplay the importance of influences and inspirations that we are seeing in ice dance and pairs.
It really depends on how one defines 'copying'. If it is taken to mean 'taking something that rightfully belongs to someone else', then it would not be a positive thing. If it is taken to mean 'using or doing something creative that some others have used/done also' - in an way unique to the doer - it would be a positive. There are trends and direction in figure skating/art/film etc. that might on the one hand been seen as copying, but on the other hand could be seen utilizing new forms/ideas within a medium of expression.I contend that emulation or 'copying' is a positive thing which has always occurred and is a significant part of the growth of all figure skating disciplines, particularly today in pairs.
I like M&G too and I would like to see them develop over the next few years. I was not trying to belittle their win. They skated clean. They did their job. I just didn’t want to crown them Russia’s number one, yet.To be fair, M&G have no control over that. They can only beat whoever is there. They can’t control that both Zabijako/Enbert and James/Ciprés withdrew.
As someone who actually is a fan of Mishina/Galliamov, can we just agree to ignore this troll? I’m half convinced she’s trying to annoy everyone so much they root against them which is not what two hard working skaters deserve
To be honest, it's possible that M/G and P/K have some sparks of something that can develop into them bringing more personality to the ice. It's just not a certainty. And I'm with you in not appreciating newbie skaters to seniors being immediately over-rewarded. Boi/Kos at least paid some dues last season. I know this is a transitional season with top teams out of the mix, but still P/K and M/G IMO are being over-scored, particularly on PCS. In part, this is due to these new young teams' technical chops, but the over-rewarding is also likely due to T/M not dominating the way they have been expected to for so long.I like M&G too and I would like to see them develop over the next few years. I was not trying to belittle their win. They skated clean. They did their job. I just didn’t want to crown them Russia’s number one, yet.
I have to add that I love the skating of T&M (both T&Ms) and I never find them boring. Underperforming May be, because of their tremendous potential. I really liked Z&E last season. They (particularly Natalia) have lovely classical lines. They did try their style last season to separate themselves from others, but I like the pure pairs skating more.
You didn’t think that M&D were not passionate on ice? Or G&G? B&S were more subtle (Elena) but they had personality, emotions and connection with each other.It is interesting that a number of Russian teams are good technically, but don't project or connect well. For me the only Russians who were well-rounded technically and possessed interesting personalities on the ice are Gordeeva/ Grinkov, the Protopopovs (B/P), Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, Rodnina with her partners, but she was the driving force especially in terms of fierce desire and athleticism, and Dmitriev with his partners, but his personality was the driving force which elevated both partnerships.
In addition, Max Trankov blossomed with Tat Volosozhar despite pairing too late in their careers to reach full creative potential. Stolbova/Klimov became a revelation when they tweaked themselves and got in shape for the 2014 Olympics. Prior to redefining themselves brilliantly in Sochi, Stol/Klim were a snore. I truly enjoyed Moskvina's work with Kavaguti/ Smirnov and with Bechke/Petrov. I liked Bazarova with Deputat* (though they never got off the ground apparently due to tech shortcomings), but she was such a bore with her first partner no matter how they were always held up around 6th place in the scoring at Worlds. Ashtakova/Rogonov were fun to watch, largely due to his charisma, but they too never reached their full potential as she apparently didn't want to skate anymore. *Deputat with Davankova in Juniors were a to-die-for pairing, but alas she grew too tall for him and they never made it to seniors together.
Sadly both T/Ms (Evgenia/Vlad & Totmianina/Marinin) are/were boring together, despite being so lovely and attractive, and technically skilled. Both could give fs pairs clinics. I just don't understand the lack of on-ice connection between both these teams. Ev/Vlad seem to project more in exhibitions, and in the beginning Tot/Mar seemed to have such a bright future. She was a bit quirky and seemingly shy, and he was more expansive with a beautiful smile. They were lovely to watch, but ultimately Zzzzzz. The fact they won OGM is a big so what, who cares in terms of pairs figure skating history.
In fact, Z/E remind me of Tot/Mar in the boring personality/ lack of connection respects, except maybe Tot/Mar were a bit more interesting and accomplished. In person, Z/E give off a sense of some lifeblood, and they are nice young people, and they try but IMO they are consistently overscored on PCS because of their long lines, tech abilities and Russian rep status. Some of the other 70s and 80s Russian teams to me are largely forgettable, although their names may still be familiar.