Pairs Discussion Thread 2019-20: “Two skating as one”

[Mad for Skating]

And lately, for them, the lifts.

That’s right. It’s just a matter of who gets the highest score on the big day. I hope they can pull it together.

 

[aftershocks]

If T/M can capitalize on the opportunity, then I think they'll be able to stick around at the top a little longer.

I think the odds are pretty good that T&M will decide their own destiny, one way or the other.

I agree. The fed can only help or hurt them so much; at the end of the day, it’s the jumps that decide who wins.

Yep, I agree. As I said, it's T/M who have to get it together. Being backed only gets a team so far, and the backing won't last forever if they don't find the confidence and belief to perform their best. This can be said for any team with backing or lack thereof. Find your mojo and work it...

It's jumps, lifts, spins, along with all the elements coming together. Having great programs and cool choreography can also make a difference for some teams. It's about working weapons and improving weaknesses.

 

[mjb52]

I think if both skate clean T & M will most likely win and deservedly so, btw. I love B & K but they are still growing and maturing. But I don't think there will be some big conspiracy to push T & M over them either, that's all.

 

[bcash]

Hmm not very wowed by S/H's new SP. Admittedly the camera angle wasn't good. And she said to ZHB first thing that she skated tight.

 

[whiteskates]

Hmm not very wowed by S/H's new SP. Admittedly the camera angle wasn't good. And she said to ZHB first thing that she skated tight.

I have to agree with you. I normally like them a lot but not the new SP. I don’t like the music and that may be why in my case.

 

[Spun Silver]

The musical style seems completely foreign to them. I suppose Lori is trying to stretch them in a new direction but there's not much choreography for them to work with (or maybe they left some of it out for the moment?). They need to express sensuality and play with the musical accents a lot more. Their costumes are nice but too formal - they don't help them "sing the blues" at all. It will be interesting to see if they can grow into the program by Worlds or just drop it in frustration. As it is now, even the wow movements are muted by the disconnect between their skating and the music.

 

[Japanfan]

The musical style seems completely foreign to them. I suppose Lori is trying to stretch them in a new direction but there's not much choreography for them to work with (or maybe they left some of it out for the moment?). They need to express sensuality and play with the musical accents a lot more. Their costumes are nice but too formal - they don't help them "sing the blues" at all. It will be interesting to see if they can grow into the program by Worlds or just drop it in frustration. As it is now, even the wow movements are muted by the disconnect between their skating and the music.

I agree with you about Lori.

Even if the program ultimately does not work well for S/H, it can help them to grow towards 2022.

 

[bcash]

But isn’t the 2017 SP already an excellent blues program with a more coherent feel, and by which they already proved they can do this type of music? I was expecting to be more surprised.

 

[Spun Silver]

But isn’t the 2017 SP already an excellent blues program with a more coherent feel, and by which they already proved they can do this type of music? I was expecting to be more surprised.

True, but Klook is more modern and this one ( whatever it is) feels more traditional and earthy. I'm just clutching at straws! It's so unlike them to be zzzzz.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Hmm, I don’t mind Sui/Han’s new SP. My personal favorite is still “Hallelujah”, but I think this program is pretty strong for them. It’s a different style for them and they looked a little tight, but I think it’ll be great when they can relax into it a bit.

 

[aftershocks]

I don't disagree with sp placements at CoC, but come on! That score for S/H is really pushing it. They were worse here in the sp than I've ever seen them, aside from at 4CCs earlier this year.

None of S/H's elements aside from the twist and lifts were strong. The spins were out of sync uncharacteristically. Sui saved the throw, but she was off-balance. That's the worse I've ever seen her land a throw. And the GOE she got! Ah well, they are getting rep scores. Of course it also helps that they are at home. Since the judges and many fans love S/H, I guess they can get away with being subpar, but we'll see for how long. I do not like this style of program for S/H. Lori Nichol must be running out of creative ideas. Let's see if S/H's fp is any better choreographically and performance-wise.

Since P/J didn't skate well either, they were kept down in the marks as they should be behind I/B.

So far, a fairly dud season performance-wise in pairs with only a few bright lights: Boikova/Koslovskii are coming on strong; Luba/Charlie are the real deal, but they need more mileage as well as perfecting the jumps; the U.S. teams have some solid programs and should be very competitive, especially if C-G/LD can turn around their letdown start to the season, and if the Knerims, D/F and C/J can fix their jumps; Tara/Danny are strong competitors with generally consistent jumps, but they need more speed and better finesse and pop on throws and twists; Canada's M-T/M have very good programs this season and they are gamers, especially Kirsten, despite not having the most explosive elements.

Della-Monica/Guarise are likely still dealing with injury -- they didn't look that great in the sp, especially comparatively with some of the better looking pairs short programs this season. Mishina/Galliamov and Pavluchenko/Khodykin have good elements and the possibility to improve their performance skills, but right now both teams are boring, and they are both lucky to be debuting in seniors when Z/E and J/C are not competing on the GP. Peng is injured, but so far she and Jin look lackluster. P/J are extremely lucky to have backed into a win at Skate America. What a huge missed opportunity for Ash/ Timothy. Haven/ Brandon have so far capitalized on A&T's less than stellar start. All of the top U.S. teams have excellently choreographed programs.

 

[Colonel Green]

Based on what we've seen so far, Sui/Han are looking good to finally win the Grand Prix Final.

 

[oleada]

I'm so happy to see Liubov and Charlie win a medal in their first GP season, even if it's a weak field

 

[love_skate2011]

Tarasova / Morozov needs to win gold in CoR

Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin despite two silver medals are not guaranteed a ticket, they will need to hope
Mishina /Galliamov block MT/M in winning silver in NHK (P/K will lose out for the tie break from higher SB total).

the chance for 4 russians in GPF is 50/50 but 3 is almost secured.

 

[Colonel Green]

Tarasova / Morozov needs to win gold in CoR

They don’t need to win gold, but they’d be dependent on MT/M not getting silver and losing the points tiebreaker (if they get bronze).

 

[love_skate2011]

They don’t need to win gold, but they’d be dependent on MT/M not getting silver and losing the points tiebreaker (if they get bronze).

oh yeas I forgot about that
basically all T/M, P/K, MT/M final placement will depend on Mishina / Galliamov

 

[text_skate]

Who would have thought, that we have to think about scenarios for T/M to make GPF. The last years they were basically set.

 

[Vash01]

Who would have thought, that we have to think about scenarios for T/M to make GPF. The last years they were basically set.

I have a bad feeling about COR (for T&M)

 

[aftershocks]

S/H were much more confident in the fp they are using again from 2019 Worlds. I don't care for S/H's sp, and they didn't skate it well either. They adopted some of the opening moves in their sp from what we see in M-T/M's sp intro (which Marcotte seemingly was inspired by from some of S/M's choreo).

Regarding the commentary in the Aliona interview thread, I now realize why S/H's music sounded so familiar at Worlds earlier this year. The music S/H are using is a different version of the song S/M skated their iconic program to at the Olympics.

So S/H and their choreographer Lori Nichol are trying to channel some of that Savchenko magic. Certainly, diva Sui has her own fierce will and competitive desire, just as Savchenko has her own, uniquely amazing will and competitive fire. Now I get why the question was asked of Savchenko about S/H's fp and why Aliona may have answered the way she did.

The music is dramatic and powerful. S/H skated to it with fierce desire at Worlds, so they are using it again, which makes sense as they didn't skate a full season last year. In their fp choreo, S/H are also seemingly adopting some of the very effective, dramatic vogueing/posing that ice dancers Manta/Johnson rocked at U.S. Nationals in January. Other teams (including Fear/Gibson in their Madonna FD) were also inspired by M/J's cool step sequence moves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bNOnXTe4Ok S/M 2018 Olympics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u7gwsPkwfs S/H Worlds 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfIhiRly_gk S/H CoC 2019

 

[aftershocks]

It's nice to see Luba & Charlie win a medal. But they made a number of mistakes. Overall, the competition is just not the greatest in terms of clean programs this season. And some of the gift scoring based on rep is annoying.

I hope somebody steps up to liven things up more this season. It would be nice to see Ash/Timothy return to form and confidence. Certainly Haven/Brandon's Lion King redux revamped is an exciting, innovative program. And once Luba/Charlie get their sea legs together, hopefully they will clean up their mistakes and make the push for the Olympic season even more competitive. Perhaps Peng's and Della Monica's injuries are keeping them so inconsistent and lackluster in their performances with their respective partners, at least in the early going this season.

There are some good teams who just aren't putting it altogether so far this season. Boikova/Koslovskii should continue to capitalize, particularly if T/M don't get it together. Russian Nationals in pairs will be interesting.

Tarah/Danny skated fairly well, but were hammered on a couple of mistakes in their fp. Plus, they need to increase their speed and continue to improve their 3-twist. The battle at U.S. Nationals will also be interesting.

As someone mentioned in the James/Cipres thread, they are missed on the competitive circuit this season.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Tarasova / Morozov needs to win gold in CoR

Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin despite two silver medals are not guaranteed a ticket, they will need to hope
Mishina /Galliamov block MT/M in winning silver in NHK (P/K will lose out for the tie break from higher SB total).

the chance for 4 russians in GPF is 50/50 but 3 is almost secured.

Pavliuchenko/Khodykin have a great chance of making the GPF with two silvers. I’ve never seen a pair win two silvers and not make the GPF, no matter how crazy the medals shake out.
I’m pretty sure the GP finalists will be Sui/Han, Peng/Jin, Pavliuchenko/Khodykin, Boikova/Kozlovskii, Mishina/Galliamov, and either Tarasova/Morozov or Moore-Towers/Marinaro.

 

[hanca]

Pavliuchenko/Khodykin have a great chance of making the GPF with two silvers. I’ve never seen a pair win two silvers and not make the GPF, no matter how crazy the medals shake out.
I’m pretty sure the GP finalists will be Sui/Han, Peng/Jin, Pavliuchenko/Khodykin, Boikova/Kozlovskii, Mishina/Galliamov, and either Tarasova/Morozov or Moore-Towers/Marinaro.

It is possible for a pair with two second places not to make the final. Considering that there is only six spots in the final, and there is six events, and considering that first plus third place is better than two second places, then if for example the pairs who placed first are also third in their second event, suddenly you have six pairs with 1+3 and none with 2+2 would get in any more. In reality of course not all first places will end up third at their second event, but you still have no guarantee that all 2+2 will get in.

 

[Tada]

S/H were much more confident in the fp they are using again from 2019 Worlds. I don't care for S/H's sp, and they didn't skate it well either. They adopted some of the opening moves in their sp from what we see in M-T/M's sp intro (which Marcotte seemingly was inspired by from some of S/M's choreo).

Regarding the commentary in the Aliona interview thread, I now realize why S/H's music sounded so familiar at Worlds earlier this year. The music S/H are using is a different version of the song S/M skated their iconic program to at the Olympics.

So S/H and their choreographer Lori Nichol are trying to channel some of that Savchenko magic. Certainly, diva Sui has her own fierce will and competitive desire, just as Savchenko has her own, uniquely amazing will and competitive fire. Now I get why the question was asked of Savchenko about S/H's fp and why Aliona may have answered the way she did.

The music is dramatic and powerful. S/H skated to it with fierce desire at Worlds, so they are using it again, which makes sense as they didn't skate a full season last year. In their fp choreo, S/H are also seemingly adopting some of the very effective, dramatic vogueing/posing that ice dancers Manta/Johnson rocked at U.S. Nationals in January. Other teams (including Fear/Gibson in their Madonna FD) were also inspired by M/J's cool step sequence moves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bNOnXTe4Ok S/M 2018 Olympics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u7gwsPkwfs S/H Worlds 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfIhiRly_gk S/H CoC 2019

I watched both Sui Han and M T M short programs: nothing similar in movement or mood whatsoever. Sui Han Nichol ‘channeling’ Savchenko? Sui Han Nichol ‘adopting’ poses of Manta Johnson?

Nice try.

 

[bcash]

S/H were much more confident in the fp they are using again from 2019 Worlds. I don't care for S/H's sp, and they didn't skate it well either. They adopted some of the opening moves in their sp from what we see in M-T/M's sp intro (which Marcotte seemingly was inspired by from some of S/M's choreo).

Regarding the commentary in the Aliona interview thread, I now realize why S/H's music sounded so familiar at Worlds earlier this year. The music S/H are using is a different version of the song S/M skated their iconic program to at the Olympics.

So S/H and their choreographer Lori Nichol are trying to channel some of that Savchenko magic. Certainly, diva Sui has her own fierce will and competitive desire, just as Savchenko has her own, uniquely amazing will and competitive fire. Now I get why the question was asked of Savchenko about S/H's fp and why Aliona may have answered the way she did.

The music is dramatic and powerful. S/H skated to it with fierce desire at Worlds, so they are using it again, which makes sense as they didn't skate a full season last year. In their fp choreo, S/H are also seemingly adopting some of the very effective, dramatic vogueing/posing that ice dancers Manta/Johnson rocked at U.S. Nationals in January. Other teams (including Fear/Gibson in their Madonna FD) were also inspired by M/J's cool step sequence moves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bNOnXTe4Ok S/M 2018 Olympics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u7gwsPkwfs S/H Worlds 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfIhiRly_gk S/H CoC 2019

Um. Completely different music. Don’t know where you got your facts.

 

[millyskate]

Regarding the commentary in the Aliona interview thread, I now realize why S/H's music sounded so familiar at Worlds earlier this year. The music S/H are using is a different version of the song S/M skated their iconic program to at the Olympics.

Um. Completely different music. Don’t know where you got your facts.

It's the music P&C used in 2016.

 

[Japanfan]

It's the music P&C used in 2016.

A skater/skaters skating to music that has been used by other skaters is hardly unusually, rather (and unfortunately) the norm. At one GP competition I attended, there were four POTOs.

 

[Mad for Skating]

It is possible for a pair with two second places not to make the final. Considering that there is only six spots in the final, and there is six events, and considering that first plus third place is better than two second places, then if for example the pairs who placed first are also third in their second event, suddenly you have six pairs with 1+3 and none with 2+2 would get in any more. In reality of course not all first places will end up third at their second event, but you still have no guarantee that all 2+2 will get in.

That’s true. In recent years, however, that hasn’t happened in my memory. I guess we’ll have to wait for the last two events to be certain.

 

[Colonel Green]

That’s true. In recent years, however, that hasn’t happened in my memory. I guess we’ll have to wait for the last two events to be certain.

The relatively unusual thing this season is the prospect of there being five different gold medalist teams, if Tarasova/Morozov win Rostelecom. That's the scenario where two silver medals wouldn't be enough.

 

[RoseRed]

That’s true. In recent years, however, that hasn’t happened in my memory. I guess we’ll have to wait for the last two events to be certain.

If T/M win in Russia and MT/M are 2nd at NHK (with M/G 3rd), then P/K would probably be out. They'd be tied on points with MT/M with 2 silvers each, but MT/M only need 194.66 to beat them on the score tiebreak. That's a perfectly plausible scenario.

 

[love_skate2011]

The Question in CoR pairs ?

Will Tarasova / Morozov continue to struggle and abandon their russian No.1 position to Mishina / Galliamov ?
Will Stolbova / Novosleov debut with a bang ?
Can Boikova / Kozlovskii finally turn around their infamous "headcase" reputation away and prove their SC win wasn't fluke ?