John Coughlin has died

[psycho]

RIP, John. How devastating. I have been thinking about him all day since the news broke. He was still so young. It's hard to believe he's gone. Deepest condolences and sympathies to his family and loved ones. I can't imagine the hell they are going through.

 

[HeatherC]

I have been trying to wrap my brain around this news since I heard it around 10 AM this morning and I'm still heartbroken and unable to process it all these hours later. I can't comment on any of the accusations since we really don't know much about them but I met John more than few times over the course of his skating career (and as a commentator a few times) and he was always gracious, funny, and kind to me. I prefer to remember him that way unless there's proof of something else because I just can't throw a guilt assumption onto someone I knew without having more information. I'm so sad for all his loved ones that are trying to process this whole situation. All I can do is send love and prayers to all of them and pray that they can somehow find peace. I'm just....I have no words for how I'm feeling anymore. Such a tragic and sad day.

 

[Laura4]

From Gracie Gold:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs1ZGapHdGm/


From Eric Radford:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs1NYJHASEj/

 

[dots]

As I said, it's irresponsible for serious allegations to be leaked and gossiped about on social media. It's harmful for both parties involved in the allegations..

Absolutely not true, information about cases are usually talked about in forums like FSU, media, and gossip outlets. It is normal to discuss a situation/even if it incites enough curiosity among people. You will never convince people not to discuss this type of accusations. Especially when there is no transparency for people to understand what is going on.

Should FSU refrain from making threads about accusations of abuse because it makes people uncomfortable? No, it is not realistic and it is not natural.

I do think people should be respectful in the way they communicate around social media, but to not talk about the case and accusations? Never. People should be able to discuss it. There is no shame in doing so.

 

[aftershocks]

You have the right to feel how you feel @dots. Everyone does. We aren't going to solve anything in this thread. We are all just expressing how we feel.

Any serious allegation, IMO, should be handled carefully and with precautions in place for anonymity until a full investigation has taken place. There should be anonymity guidelines in place to ensure the safety and well-being of all parties until all the facts are known and conclusions have been reached. Just because social media exists does not mean allegations of this type should be loosely discussed and bandied about before a full investigation has taken place.

I'm not sure why you mention feelings of shame or being shamed not being a factor though, for anyone who might be involved on any side of such allegations. We don't know what we don't know.

I came here to share my feelings about John Coughlin's tragic death, and how I remember him in this moment. Perhaps the discussions about allegations should be taken to a different thread.

 

[Bigbird]

Absolutely not true, information about cases are usually talked about in forums like FSU, media, and gossip outlets. It is normal to discuss a situation/even if it incites enough curiosity among people. You will never convince people not to discuss this type of accusations. Especially when there is no transparency for people to understand what is going on.

Should FSU refrain from making threads about accusations of abuse because it makes people uncomfortable? No, it is not realistic and it is not natural.

I do think people should be respectful in the way they communicate around social media, but to not talk about the case and accusations? Never. People should be able to discuss it. There is no shame in doing so.

So sad for all concerned. There needs to be more easy access to help for mental health issues without any unnecessary stigma. We all struggle with one thing or another and we all need help. None of us have it all together and nobody should be made to feel that they cannot be loved if they don't measure up to some unattainable ideal.

 

[alice73]

Actually, no. In most cases people around an abuser have seen questionable behavior or had concerns. People at Penn State in and in the community had suspicions about Jerry Sandusky for decades. The priest arrested for sexual abuse when I attended Catholic high school was considered a creeper by every single student and we all tried to stay away from him (the abuse was taking place with younger children in his parish). A list of priests credibly accused was just released in my diocese, I know of only one case that surprised anyone who knew these guys and even in that one, people in my parish where he was briefly assigned nodded their heads and said he was a bit too tactile with their kids.

Three teachers I worked with were accused of misconduct. One was turned over to the police and served jail time. All three interacted questionably with students. The one who went to jail had student taught with me. During that time, I had concerns about the way he interacted too closely with female students in particular. I talked to him about setting appropriate boundaries. His college supervisor talked to him. The male teacher who also was working with him talked to him. He was young--22 years old--and 16-18 year old girls found him attractive and were pushing the boundaries themselves which isn't actually unusual. In one case, a call was made to a girl's parent after she showed up at his residence under the guise of "trick or treating" on Halloween (small town means people know where everyone lives). This is not to blame victims--we discussed with him that he was the adult and it was his job to understand and set necessary boundaries with teenage girls who had crushes on him as that would happen for a few years at least.
Four years later, then employed at our school, he crossed the line with an 8th grader and he will never teach again. And at that time, two teachers had reported to admins that he seemed unusually close to more than one female student and perhaps grooming behavior was going on. (That the principal ignored those reports completely is another matter--but he is no longer a principal so there is that).

The other two teachers were both female (as were the accusers). Both of them spend social time off of school grounds with students, often one on one. In both cases, other staff members and parents were asking questions about this closeness with students. No one said they were so nice, so whatever and it wasn't in their DNA. We all shook our heads and said that something should have been done about them having dinner alone with students or meeting them for ice cream in the summer, etc...

Now, it could be that Delilah has no knowledge of grooming behaviors or never saw John interact with anyone in that way. But I would still dispute that no one ever says anything but that abusers were wonderful people.

This.
Many public figures who’ve been recently accused of sexually abusive behavior, such as Matt Lauer and Harvey Weinstein, it was a known fact to people who worked with them but it was kept under wraps. Their public reputation was protected but in their own professional community people knew or at least heard rumors. The situation with John Coughlin was the opposite of that. His name was dragged through the mud in the court of public opinion but it seems that people who knew him best believe he’s innocent. I believe them, though it doesn’t seem to be a popular opinion on this forum. I’m willing to give John benefit of the doubt.
RIP John.

 

[Lanie]

One thing I don't get is accusing posters here of not caring about those who came forward with allegations. Of course we do. It's all a sad, shocking mess. Those who come forward are brave and need support and I don't think they get it from USFS at all judging by how this was bungled.

 

[Spartacus]

Very sad news indeed.

 

[carriecmu0503]

If there is an ethics complaint made in my professional organization, it immediately is considered public knowledge and placed on the website. After the organization investigates, sanctions may be made or lifted and the public information is edited accordingly. But, while the complaint is under investigation, it is made available for potential employers to review as part of background checks. This is essentially the same procedure SafeSport follows.

This is entirely inappropriate, and this organization could be sued for slander/libel for doing so. Any unstable person can make any complaint, unfounded or not. Claims need to be found to have an actual basis before dragging peoples' names through the mud. This is exactly the case in my profession of mental health counseling. I can only imagine what it would look like if every single complaint against every single counselor was made public before an investigation. It would be a total nightmare, and the livelihood and very lives of many counselors would be destroyed based on no evidence whatsoever.

 

[moonvine]

All people calling for keeping abuse quiet are hypocrites. While I feel sadness for the family, I feel anger that anyone would want abuse covered up because they like the accused. This is a disgusting mentality.

But we don't know if he even did anything. We just know he was accused..by someone..of something.

 

[Frau Muller]

But we don't know if he even did anything. We just know he was accused..by someone..of something.

We also know that after the initial month of investigation, SafeSport elevated the case from “Restricted” to “Suspended” status. He was “Restricted” between Dec 17-Jan 16. Something (some finding) caused SafeSport to change the designation of his case to the more serious “Suspended” status on Jan 17. John died the next day, Jan 18.

Sigh. We’ve already discussed this timeline in the other thread but since everyone keeps talking about Safesport in this thread...

 

[overedge]

This is entirely inappropriate, and this organization could be sued for slander/libel for doing so. Any unstable person can make any complaint, unfounded or not. Claims need to be found to have an actual basis before dragging peoples' names through the mud. This is exactly the case in my profession of mental health counseling. I can only imagine what it would look like if every single complaint against every single counselor was made public before an investigation. It would be a total nightmare, and the livelihood and very lives of many counselors would be destroyed based on no evidence whatsoever.

It's not slander or libel to state that someone is suspended or under investigation. Those are facts. You can't sue an organization for stating facts.

And if you think that publicizing someone's suspension is dragging their name through the mud -look at how much it has cost the University of Michigan for *not* letting people know that one of their employees was being investigated for alleged inappropriate behaviour.

 

[maatTheViking]

This is incredible sad news, my heart goes out to his family and friends.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The Worlds performance to Ave Maria in Russia was dedicated to his mother.

I was able to see that skate in person. Such an honour.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I understand that concept. But shouldn't the initial allegations be investigated first? There is obviously a benefit of more victims coming forward. But the drawback is just as huge - having innocent people's lives ruined. It really reminds me of Stalin's approach of "shoot first, ask questions later".

It makes me wonder if, after the US gymnastics scandal, whether SafeSport was pushed to make this case in progress public before an outcome was decided.

Sometimes the peril of celebrity can be so challenging. Being accused of something, versus that actuality, still means having to deal with seeds of doubt being planted. One's character will always be questioned.

As for TSL posting a video about SafeSport earlier today, I would prefer to keep my opinion in that regard to myself.

 

[dots]

His name was dragged through the mud in the court of public opinion but it seems that people who knew him best believe he’s innocent. I believe them, though it doesn’t seem to be a popular opinion on this forum. I’m willing to give John benefit of the doubt.
RIP John.

There is no problem with taking sides. It's human nature.

I think the question is whether you believe the complaint should be fully investigated?

Do you believe the "other party" has the right to seek an investigation? Or does it not matter to you because they don't get the benefit of the doubt from people close to John?

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

There is no problem with taking sides. It's human nature.

I think the question is whether you believe the complaint should be fully investigated?

Do you believe the "other party" has the right to seek an investigation? Or does it not matter to you because they don't get the benefit of the doubt from people close to John?

At no point did the posters insinuate that the other party does not have the right to seek an investigation. They were posing a legitimate question: does the party accused has the right to due process? Or is that process eliminated in the interest of protecting future victims from harm? This is a complex situation, and we won't help anything by oversimplifying other's points of view.

 

[victoriajh]

how sad for all his friends and family =( that he felt he had no other way out of the situation is a tragedy.... rip

 

[Vash01]

How awful! I just saw this thread and I have not read the details. I am shocked. So young! My deepest sympathies to his family and friends.

RIP John Coughlin.

 

[Simone411]

Just saw this. My heartfelt condolences to John's family and friends. Rest in Peace, John, and may God bless.

 

[dots]

we won't help anything by oversimplifying other's points of view.

The poster said they believed John because the people around him had only nice things to say about him, my post picked on it.

No one is oversimplifying anyone's point of view. I asked a question. It's that simple.

I am of the mind that you can take sides, but hopefully still think the investigation can take place.

 

[Prancer]

does the party accused has the right to due process?

What do you mean by "due process"?

If a person is being investigated for virtually anything, that can be and often is reported in the media. If media reports deny an accused person due process, then I haven't understood due process all these years.

 

[alice73]

The poster said they believed John because the people around him had only nice things to say about him, my post picked on it.

No one is oversimplifying anyone's point of view. I asked a question. It's that simple.

I am of the mind that you can take sides, but hopefully still think the investigation can take place.

I believe that the accused has a right to anonymity while the investigation is taking place. And yes, when multiple people who knew John well say good things about him, I believe them.
We had President of the United States accused of gross sexual misconduct by multiple women. It’s clear from multiple accounts that his behavior was known in his close circles but it was allowed to go on, and even after it became publicly known and investigated, he was allowed to finish his term and continued to have a successful political career. There’s a huge double standard here, when a human being is being punished, suspended and his name is revealed to the public BEFORE the investigation is complete. We didn’t even know what he was being accused of but based on the way he was being treated, people were already making assumptions.

 

[overedge]

They were posing a legitimate question: does the party accused has the right to due process? Or is that process eliminated in the interest of protecting future victims from harm?

"Due process" means conducting a full investigation and giving both sides the opportunity to state their case, and to respond to each other's position. Suspending someone's professional license while they're being investigated doesn't violate due process. That person still has the right to state their position and to give evidence, and to respond to the evidence against them.

 

[Prancer]

There’s a huge double standard here

In what way is there a double standard? Was Donald Trump at some point investigated for sexual misconduct and allowed to maintain anonymity?

 

[overedge]

There’s a huge double standard here, when a human being is being punished, suspended and his name is revealed to the public BEFORE the investigation is complete.

The person works in a profession involving regular contact with young/vulnerable people. That's the difference. It's not a double standard.

 

[TallyT]

Let's be honest here - humans being the messy imperfect creatures we are there is actually, humanly, and tragically no way to exactly balance the demands of due process on the one hand and duty of care on the other. Whatever the authorities did, people were going to be hurt and badly.

And they are dealing with minors. If any accusations made are even possible let alone plausible, they are dealing with frightened and traumatised minors.

Either the accuser/s or the accused have to be removed from the situation; and short of letting him 'go on leave' (which wouldn't have stopped the gossip, to be honest), a better way is hard to see. That there is a better, I can readily believe, because I am no expert. Problem is, every suggestion I've seen on numerous threads would - to be blunt - just make things even worse, especially for the minors involved.

 

[AxelAnnie]

^^^ I always say you never know the true burden other people carry.

You can't expect people stay in the physical world just to make others happy and comfortable. But this can be discussed another day.

I don't think "staying in the physical world" to make others happy is what is being talked about. Suicide vomits on all those who loved you. I get killing yourself.....really and truly. Then I think of my grandchildren and think about how that would leave them....and I keep putting one foot in front of the other.

I am sure John thought this was the only way to deal with what was happening. I am just sad and sorry that he couldn't find another way.

 

[AxelAnnie]

From Gracie Gold:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs1ZGapHdGm/


From Eric Radford:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs1NYJHASEj/

Gracie was quite eloquent.