John Coughlin has died

[Perky Shae Lynn]

So more people can come forward, as has happened in so many of these situations.

I understand that concept. But shouldn't the initial allegations be investigated first? There is obviously a benefit of more victims coming forward. But the drawback is just as huge - having innocent people's lives ruined. It really reminds me of Stalin's approach of "shoot first, ask questions later".

 

[rfisher]

If there is an ethics complaint made in my professional organization, it immediately is considered public knowledge and placed on the website. After the organization investigates, sanctions may be made or lifted and the public information is edited accordingly. But, while the complaint is under investigation, it is made available for potential employers to review as part of background checks. This is essentially the same procedure SafeSport follows.

 

[DreamSkates]

So more people can come forward, as has happened in so many of these situations.

We need to educate children and parents, and make easily available, ways to "come forward" rather than using social media, making ourselves judge and jury, and making conclusions when we don't really know the situation.

My memory of John will be that we was a memorable pair figure skater with commendable accomplishments.

 

[skipaway]

RIP John

 

[barbk]

I am sorry for John, his family, former partners, colleagues and friends. Whatever happened with SafeSport, it is sad to hear this news today.

I can be sad for John and those who knew him while also have compassion and respect for those who reached out to SafeSport and the folks within SafeSport who bear many burdens in what they must cope with every day.

RIP, John.

 

[tony]

The news just popped up on my phone as a push-notification story from CNN.

 

[Carolla5501]

There seems to be a assumption on here that we know what the abuse was. And we don’t. There also seems to be in an assumption that we know he’s guilty, and we don’t. There is also an assumption that no one cares about the victim, which is patently not true. It’s just hard to express sympathy if you don’t know the person.

I think a little less time passing judgement and alittle more time realizing that to his friends and family this is a horrible occurrence would be appropriate. We don’t all have to stoop to the level of TSL and sensationalize a sad situation

 

[WillyElliot]

I think most accused would likely restrain their behaviors if the complaints are true because they now know their acts are no longer a secret and they are been watched and can get harsher punishments if continue. If it’s untrue it would protect the accused.

I agree with this. If he is alerted that an investigation has begun on X complaint, I would highly doubt he would continue X behavior. "Protecting the children" should be first and foremost, but what exactly are they being protected from if the accused continues coaching, knowing he's being investigated? I hope they don't end the investigation now, because if he is innocent, it should be made public to clear his name.

 

[Mayra]

I agree with this. If he is alerted that an investigation has begun on X complaint, I would highly doubt he would continue X behavior. "Protecting the children" should be first and foremost, but what exactly are they being protected from if the accused continues coaching, knowing he's being investigated? .

Then you would both be wrong. You only have the read through the history of, and the handling of the Larry Nassar case to know this is simply not the case. I'm not speaking in regards to John, just in regards to how there are no hard and set rules with regards to sexual abuse and predatory behavior.


My heart goes out to John's family and friends. What a tragic outcome for all involved.

 

[Carolla5501]

Actually, no. In most cases people around an abuser have seen questionable behavior or had concerns. People at Penn State in and in the community had suspicions about Jerry Sandusky for decades. The priest arrested for sexual abuse when I attended Catholic high school was considered a creeper by every single student and we all tried to stay away from him (the abuse was taking place with younger children in his parish). A list of priests credibly accused was just released in my diocese, I know of only one case that surprised anyone who knew these guys and even in that one, people in my parish where he was briefly assigned nodded their heads and said he was a bit too tactile with their kids.

Three teachers I worked with were accused of misconduct. One was turned over to the police and served jail time. All three interacted questionably with students. The one who went to jail had student taught with me. During that time, I had concerns about the way he interacted too closely with female students in particular. I talked to him about setting appropriate boundaries. His college supervisor talked to him. The male teacher who also was working with him talked to him. He was young--22 years old--and 16-18 year old girls found him attractive and were pushing the boundaries themselves which isn't actually unusual. In one case, a call was made to a girl's parent after she showed up at his residence under the guise of "trick or treating" on Halloween (small town means people know where everyone lives). This is not to blame victims--we discussed with him that he was the adult and it was his job to understand and set necessary boundaries with teenage girls who had crushes on him as that would happen for a few years at least.
Four years later, then employed at our school, he crossed the line with an 8th grader and he will never teach again. And at that time, two teachers had reported to admins that he seemed unusually close to more than one female student and perhaps grooming behavior was going on. (That the principal ignored those reports completely is another matter--but he is no longer a principal so there is that).

The other two teachers were both female (as were the accusers). Both of them spend social time off of school grounds with students, often one on one. In both cases, other staff members and parents were asking questions about this closeness with students. No one said they were so nice, so whatever and it wasn't in their DNA. We all shook our heads and said that something should have been done about them having dinner alone with students or meeting them for ice cream in the summer, etc...

Now, it could be that Delilah has no knowledge of grooming behaviors or never saw John interact with anyone in that way. But I would still dispute that no one ever says anything but that abusers were wonderful people.

If there is an ethics complaint made in my professional organization, it immediately is considered public knowledge and placed on the website. After the organization investigates, sanctions may be made or lifted and the public information is edited accordingly. But, while the complaint is under investigation, it is made available for potential employers to review as part of background checks. This is essentially the same procedure SafeSport follows.

I am a member of several organizations and none of them actually follow this process. However I do think something needs to be done especially since there are minors involved. Perhaps SafeSport could agree not to publish a name if the accused takes a leave of absence for personal reasons while the investigation is ongoing. That would get the accused away from the situation and allow time for an investigation to be conducted accurately and without pressure from media


Well we all know stories where the accusation has turned out to be true. They’re also stories that I know of where it’s more motivated by other issues. I don’t think those kind of issues would have been relevant here. But it’s a thought (I’ve dealt with several allegations in my career that were motivated by “I hate my ex” )

 

[eurodance2001]

There seems to be a assumption on here that we know what the abuse was. And we don’t. There also seems to be in an assumption that we know he’s guilty, and we don’t. There is also an assumption that no one cares about the victim, which is patently not true. It’s just hard to express sympathy if you don’t know the person.

I think a little less time passing judgement and alittle more time realizing that to his friends and family this is a horrible occurrence would be appropriate. We don’t all have to stoop to the level of TSL and sensationalize a sad situation

You more eloquently stated what I similarly stated on the other thread about this. Thank you.

 

[TallyT]

Transparency for the general public? Why do we need to know until the investigation is complete and all evidence one way or the other is known?

So that - in all the cases where it is proven to be true - ongoing and potential victims, children, are protected/alerted? They think they're alone (and yes, some of them suicide too before the guilt/innocence is proven because they don't expected to be believed)

 

[rfisher]

I am a member of several organizations and none of them actually follow this process. However I do think something needs to be done especially since there are minors involved. Perhaps SafeSport could agree not to publish a name if the accused takes a leave of absence for personal reasons while the investigation is ongoing. That would get the accused away from the situation and allow time for an investigation to be conducted accurately and without pressure from media


Well we all know stories where the accusation has turned out to be true. They’re also stories that I know of where it’s more motivated by other issues. I don’t think those kind of issues would have been relevant here. But it’s a thought (I’ve dealt with several allegations in my career that were motivated by “I hate my ex” )

Ours didn't until a patient died and they were sued by both families and multiple hospitals because there had been complaints made that were under investigation but not made public. The individual moved around from hospital to hospital as they worked for a traveling company. After the suit was settled, everything is now public.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Updated link on the USFS page

https://www.usfsa.org/story?id=92097&type=media

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Articles

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/19/us/john-coughlin-dead/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/john...commits-suicide-one-day-after-being-suspended

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/olympics/article224807565.html (with Gracie Gold)

 

[millyskate]

A response by Mervin Tran.
https://twitter.com/skate_moivo/status/1086706218415075329

 

[overedge]

I understand that concept. But shouldn't the initial allegations be investigated first? There is obviously a benefit of more victims coming forward. But the drawback is just as huge - having innocent people's lives ruined. It really reminds me of Stalin's approach of "shoot first, ask questions later".

In most of these processes, there *is* an initial investigation to see if the complaint is substantial enough to justify a full investigation. Full investigations take a lot of time and resources to do properly, so the organization usually wants to be sure it's not wasting its time on a baseless matter.

It may be debatable whether a complaint is substantial (as a lot of Nassar's victims found out ) but if an organization goes straight into a full investigation without doing a preliminary investigation, that's not fair to anyone.

 

[Anita18]

A response by Mervin Tran.
https://twitter.com/skate_moivo/status/1086706218415075329

Incredibly nuanced take by Mervin. This is a difficult situation all around.

I still have sympathy for those who don't see a way out besides suicide. But it causes so much pain and suffering for their loved ones, so I can't support it.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^ I always say you never know the true burden other people carry.

You can't expect people stay in the physical world just to make others happy and comfortable. But this can be discussed another day.

 

[Laura4]

From Alexa Knierim:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs07JnXgiL6/


From Adam Rippon:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs08eiJnVJe/

 

[aftershocks]

I couldn't believe this when I heard it just now. I hadn't really even read anything about any allegations. I thought I saw something mentioned in passing about someone being reported to SafeSport, but I just couldn't connect John Coughlin's name with it at all. I thought I must have misread and I didn't follow up on it (and I didn't see the thread in GSD).

I really don't understand why an allegation is widely leaked before being fully investigated. That just doesn't seem right. I always appreciated and admired John's passion for the sport. I felt honored to meet him once at 2016 Skate America. I was struck by his kindness and the way he gave me his full attention and was interested in what I had to say, while also extending me information about the sport in my area that I could follow up on, without me even asking. His passion for the sport was so palpable, endearing and inspirational. I loved his commentary and I missed hearing his take about pairs on recent broadcasts. He was so knowledgeable and able to share that knowledge in such an enlightening way. What a kind and generous person John was. This is so hearbreaking! It must have felt so devastating to him to have his livelihood and the sport he loved taken away so abruptly.

I'm with Alexa Knierim in wishing that the fans and friends who loved John could have rallied around him more and helped to keep him strong and helped him to know that whatever burdens and complications lay ahead, he could overcome and he would have support in overcoming no matter what the outcome; to help him know that love is stronger than fear; that whatever despair and pain he was facing for whatever reason, his life was valuable and still worth living. I too hope John is now in the arms of his dear mother and that he's found peace. I'll never forget his smile and his genuine kindness. My heart goes out to his family and friends.

 

[sharsk8s]

I can't say if he did or didn't do what he is accused of (because 1. none of us no what he was accused of, and 2. nobody knows for certain what happened), but I did have the privilege of knowing John since I was 11 years old. He was so vibrant and positive. He was the first person I ever did a death spiral with, the person who taught us all how to do pair spins. My heart shatters that such an amazing teacher and friends was lost. I wish that people online who are not aware of the entire situation were more polite to those who truly loved John.

 

[Kasey]

I always feel so sad for people who see so little left in the world for them, for whom the world is so dark and cold and lonely, that suicide is their option. I met John Coughlin at Skate America once. He was warm, welcoming and funny. Of course that does not ban the possibility of negative behavior; but that is the Coughlin I am choosing to remember at this time until there may be some reason to think or feel otherwise. Wishing gentle peace and support to his friends and family, and to all in any way impacted by this tragedy.

 

[dots]

Is anyone else disgusted by the attitude of many in the skating community? Fans in this very forum and some skaters alike.

While John's passing is a very tragic event, there is a clear narrative going on with certain people trying to paint the situation as unfair. The truth is that we know very little about the accusation, but we do know that it was strong enough that he was suspended.

One's appreciation for a skater should never lead to shaming accusers. Period. This is the type of attitude that prevents victims from coming forward.

 

[sharsk8s]

Is anyone else disgusted by the attitude of many in the skating community? Fans in this very forum and some skaters alike.

While John's passing is a very tragic event, there is a clear narrative going on with certain people trying to paint the situation as unfair. The truth is that we know very little about the accusation, but we do know that it was strong enough that he was suspended.

One's appreciation for a skater should never lead to shaming accusers. Period. This is the type of attitude that prevents victims from coming forward.

I agree with how Kasey put it. I am choosing to remember him for the positive impact he had on my life and so many others until there is any solid evidence that should make me feel otherwise.

 

[dots]

I agree with how Kasey put it. I am choosing to remember him for the positive impact he had on my life and so many others until there is any solid evidence that should make me feel otherwise.

That is a perfectly good position to take as long as you don't make the mistake of declaring the accusations against him, from whoever they come from, not worthy of being investigate.

The accuser/s deserve to have their stories investigated.

 

[TallyT]

I can't say if he did or didn't do what he is accused of (because 1. none of us no what he was accused of, and 2. nobody knows for certain what happened), but I did have the privilege of knowing John since I was 11 years old. He was so vibrant and positive. He was the first person I ever did a death spiral with, the person who taught us all how to do pair spins. My heart shatters that such an amazing teacher and friends was lost. I wish that people online who are not aware of the entire situation were more polite to those who truly loved John.

My sympathies to you and everyone grieving - I do wish everyone on all sides would be more sensitive in what they say right now. There are young people possibly agonising over whether they should have kept quiet and this is their fault; there are family members and friends of accused and accusers hurting on their behalf; there are people in Safesport who were trying to do th e right thing in a terrible, messy situation and would now be second-guessing themselves.

I doubt we will ever know the full story, but I hope enough is released for all concerned to get some peace.

 

[sharsk8s]

That is a perfectly good position to take as long as you don't make the mistake of declaring the accusations against him, from whoever they come from, not worthy of being investigate.

The accuser/s deserve to have their stories investigated.

Of course. I think every allegation deserves to be heard. I wish USFS and safe sport could have handeled the situation a bit better. I know nothing was intentional and safesport is still fairly new, but they posted that he was suspended without giving any other information which let peoples minds wonder.

 

[dots]

Of course. I think every allegation deserves to be heard. I wish USFS and safe sport could have handeled the situation a bit better. I know nothing was intentional and safesport is still fairly new, but they posted that he was suspended without giving any other information which let peoples minds wonder.

It is natural of people to wonder, people need to stop citing "curiosity" as the problem for the various outcomes that will come out of this investigation. An action was taken against someone(whether it was John or the accuser against John) and that is the only driving force that will create a final outcome on this case. If anything, I thought people and social outlets were very careful about reporting. Even those gossip queens from TSL were tame when reporting on John and Andrew.

 

[aftershocks]

It's not shaming accusers to share one's memories of a person's kindness and the good you know and remember about that person in the aftermath of their tragic and sudden passing. I haven't been following any of the accusations and frankly I hadn't really made any connection with John Coughlin and any reports because I hadn't seen the other thread nor read any reports.

As I said, it's irresponsible for serious allegations to be leaked and gossiped about on social media. It's harmful for both parties involved in the allegations. As has been said, none of us know any details, and I'm not going to make any judgments one way or the other. Neither do I think ill of people for coming to the devastating and horrible conclusion to end their life by their own hand. Once that has happened, nothing can be done to change anything.

There are all kinds of reasons, situations, and heartbreaks that can cause someone to come to that hollow bend in the road, no matter their age. I know it's a horrible feeling because I experienced it when I was a teenager. Part of it was about feeling so hopeless and in such pain that I wanted to make the person who hurt me feel pain by ending my life. That's sometimes the case with teenagers not realizing that's the end to everything and killing oneself doesn't solve anything. No matter how old you are, it's possible to reach a state of mind of such pain and depression that thoughts of suicide can occur. Quite often, and ironically, wanting to commit suicide is a cry for help that in the majority of cases is too late. That brings to my mind the fortunate fact that Tai Babilonia's life was saved because she called her mother after swallowing pills during a depressing time for her many years ago. But truly none of us know what personal devastation and hopelessness or even shame, regret, harassment and victimization feels like for another person, so it's best to keep judgment at bay.

IMO, this is a heartwrenching set of circumstances for everyone involved. And it's irresponsible for any of us to start throwing around accusations and making judgment calls, or deciding how someone else should feel, or how someone else should express themselves. Personally, I take stock of my own life and I say a prayer for my blessings, and I also try to think more about forgiving those I love for their shortcomings and transgressions.

Everyone has a right to feel how they feel, but also to resist attempting to tell others how to feel or what to say.