John Coughlin has died

[Finsta]

All people calling for keeping abuse quiet are hypocrites. While I feel sadness for the family, I feel anger that anyone would want abuse covered up because they like the accused. This is a disgusting mentality.

 

[Fridge_Break]

It was a slow, snowy day at work this morning. After browsing online, now it’s a sad day Wishing condolences to everyone affected by this tragedy.

 

[Erin]

SafeSports should change their practice of publicizing restriction and interim suspension on the accused until they complete their investigation. Instead they should inform the accused of the accusation and investigation, and warn the accused of severe civil and criminal punishment and prosecution if he continues the activities.

I think most accused would likely restrain their behaviors if the complaints are true because they now know their acts are no longer a secret and they are been watched and can get harsher punishments if continue. If it’s untrue it would protect the accused.

I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with that at all and could bring some examples to the contrary, but I’m not sure that this thread is the appropriate place to discuss them. I’ll just say that I think this excellent post in the suspension thread by @SpeedySucks addresses what I think what the solution should be - more resources for the mental health of both the accused and victims:
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...interim-suspension.105122/page-4#post-5504838

I can’t think of much more to say but what a sad, tragic situation for all involved. His sister and father will be in my thoughts.

 

[Jarrett]

All people calling for keeping abuse quiet are hypocrites. While I feel sadness for the family, I feel anger that anyone would want abuse covered up because they like the accused. This is a disgusting mentality.

Edited I had a person on ignore.

 

[livetoskate]

I didn't know John's mother died in 2010. Were he and Caydee married? There's no info about it on his wiki.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/news-commentary/olympics/article/7247348/coughlin-denney-quite-pair

 

[Moustaffask8r]

All people calling for keeping abuse quiet are hypocrites. While I feel sadness for the family, I feel anger that anyone would want abuse covered up because they like the accused. This is a disgusting mentality.

You are so right!!!!

 

[PDilemma]

I know she's in mourning, and I do understand where she's coming from. That said, I would urge everyone to always ignore statements like: "I’ve known [x] for 20 plus years. [x] would never put a harmful hand on anyone, that is just simply not in his DNA."

These statements could have been said about any number of clergy or other individuals; statements like these are why we need Safesport, an independent body who can get to the truth - whatever that may be.

I also think it's important to remember that he was and still is innocent until proven guilty, and he was given due process. His own actions stopped the due process. Keeping all details silent until things are "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" (which takes time because of due process) are how predators like Nassar and the Catholic clergy continued to operate, despite the whispers. Coughlin himself wrote in his statement, “I note only that the SafeSport notice of allegation itself stated that an allegation in no way constitutes a finding by SafeSport or that there is any merit to the allegation."

I do agree with LarrySk8 that more needs to be done to help the accused deal with what has to be a terrible situation. I am truly sorry no one was able to help John.

Actually, no. In most cases people around an abuser have seen questionable behavior or had concerns. People at Penn State in and in the community had suspicions about Jerry Sandusky for decades. The priest arrested for sexual abuse when I attended Catholic high school was considered a creeper by every single student and we all tried to stay away from him (the abuse was taking place with younger children in his parish). A list of priests credibly accused was just released in my diocese, I know of only one case that surprised anyone who knew these guys and even in that one, people in my parish where he was briefly assigned nodded their heads and said he was a bit too tactile with their kids.

Three teachers I worked with were accused of misconduct. One was turned over to the police and served jail time. All three interacted questionably with students. The one who went to jail had student taught with me. During that time, I had concerns about the way he interacted too closely with female students in particular. I talked to him about setting appropriate boundaries. His college supervisor talked to him. The male teacher who also was working with him talked to him. He was young--22 years old--and 16-18 year old girls found him attractive and were pushing the boundaries themselves which isn't actually unusual. In one case, a call was made to a girl's parent after she showed up at his residence under the guise of "trick or treating" on Halloween (small town means people know where everyone lives). This is not to blame victims--we discussed with him that he was the adult and it was his job to understand and set necessary boundaries with teenage girls who had crushes on him as that would happen for a few years at least.
Four years later, then employed at our school, he crossed the line with an 8th grader and he will never teach again. And at that time, two teachers had reported to admins that he seemed unusually close to more than one female student and perhaps grooming behavior was going on. (That the principal ignored those reports completely is another matter--but he is no longer a principal so there is that).

The other two teachers were both female (as were the accusers). Both of them spend social time off of school grounds with students, often one on one. In both cases, other staff members and parents were asking questions about this closeness with students. No one said they were so nice, so whatever and it wasn't in their DNA. We all shook our heads and said that something should have been done about them having dinner alone with students or meeting them for ice cream in the summer, etc...

Now, it could be that Delilah has no knowledge of grooming behaviors or never saw John interact with anyone in that way. But I would still dispute that no one ever says anything but that abusers were wonderful people.

 

[UGG]

…. and already people are accusing her of killing John (see Comments).

It does bring up the point that those accused have needs to be addressed (if guilty, they need help; if innocent, they need help and support).

It could be debated that SafeSport, as an organization reporting allegations and investigations only, is actually engaging in harmful behavior and possibly slander of those accused. SafeSport knows, even without proving anything other than an allegation was made and is to be investigated, will stop the accused from working and will ruin their personal reputation. Sounds slanderous. Sounds now like a potential litigious situation, as there are strong opinions on both sides.

Trials over slander by the press have taken place regularly, and especially in Britain some trials have been quite sensational over the years. Maybe someone has insight to share?

Is SafeSport now a potential target of litigation? Can any of the accused, if found not guilty of anything, sue them for slander? I bet we may see that in the future.

Side note - very curious indeed that Craig Maurizi, who tried to use SafeSport to indict Callaghan without too much success is the husband of Tara Modlin (the agent connected to Johnny Weir for the reality show), who was John Coughlin's agent. We all know Maurizi claimed years of sexual misconduct now over 20 years ago and came to notice during the #metoo movement. He has numerous contacts at SafeSport, and probably so does Tara Modlin.

There is an entire story with multiple facets and curiosities and tragedy here, and no one knows anything yet about any of the potential victims of abuse! That in and of itself is amazing.

In order for something to qualify for slander, a statement made about another person has to be untruthful. So a news outlet reporting on an ongoing investigation could not qualify as slander because the slanderous accusation was not made by them. They are reporting facts regarding the investigation. The person who made the alligatons could be sued for slander if it’s untrue. (I posted this in the other thread also)

 

[whiteskates]

Whatever he did och didn't do or whatever the reason for the suspension, it should have been handled differently. He should have been given enough qualified help to handle whatever his problems were. He must have been desperate if he saw no other way out than suicide. Poor guy!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Such terrible news. The pairing of Yankowskas and Coughlin were one of my all time favorites!

May John RIP. Tragic that due process was never able (allowed) to happen.

 

[Spun Silver]

I thought this was a condolences/memorial thread (per the suggestion in the first thread). If it is to be yet more discussion of SafeSport, etc. why have a separate thread?

 

[PDilemma]

Whatever he did och didn't do or whatever the reason for the suspension, it should have been handled differently. He should have been given enough qualified help to handle whatever his problems were. He must have been desperate if he saw no other way out than suicide. Poor guy!

Yes. This. His livelihood was abruptly taken away; he probably saw bills to pay that he wasn't going to have the means to pay. His reputation was being dragged through the mud. He probably felt that he hurt his family.

And it either wasn't a crime or SafeSport and the people around him have other questions to answer about not reporting appropriately.

 

[love skating]

I'm shocked and so sad, it's just sad all around no matter what.

 

[Frau Muller]

I absolutely loved Yankowskas/Coughlin and always wondered why such a magical & promising pair split after just one National title and achieving 6th place at Worlds.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I didn't know John's mother died in 2010. Were he and Caydee married? There's no info about it on his wiki.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/news-commentary/olympics/article/7247348/coughlin-denney-quite-pair

The Worlds performance to Ave Maria in Russia was dedicated to his mother.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I just watched Caitlin&John's 2011 Nats Ave Maria FS and cried, so in case anybody else here feels like doing the same, here's the link: https://youtu.be/incIOswvkv0

While watching it again (and I have watched this mannnnny times) I noticed again how Yankowskas's upper body movement is so like Oksana Baiul, and the commentator mentioned that too.

So sad, I'd like to celebrate his skating!!!

 

[caseyedwards]

RIP. I hope he can get justice someway for what was done to him.

 

[caseyedwards]

All people calling for keeping abuse quiet are hypocrites. While I feel sadness for the family, I feel anger that anyone would want abuse covered up because they like the accused. This is a disgusting mentality.

It’s called due process! He was being forced to live like he was found guilty!!

 

[AxelAnnie]

What a tragedy!

This is so sad, and so horrific.

The man was smeared and labeled, his life torn apart before he was even given a chance to defend himself. My personal opinion is that Safe Sport is eville. I did not register.

If he was quilty..........well, that is one road.
If he was NOT guilty then an organization with over-reaching power took a man's dignity and his life.

There is something so wrong here.

 

[Spun Silver]

Heee's John with Caydee skating to East of Eden at SA in 2012. It's an exciting, moving performance and John skates with beautiful freedom.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NkB5BQQjN3U

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

This is terrible. Whether accusations were legitimate or not, John's career was ruined. His livelihood was gone. Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, he would be convicted in the court of public opinion. There has to be a mechanism to protect the accused until the investigation is completed. While protecting potential victims as well.

My friend's mother in law called the Child Protective Services after an argument, and anonymously told them a bunch of horrible lies. The investigation took 3 month. She was quickly cleared of any possible wrongdoing. Initially she threatened with both criminal and civil consequences, and the investigators talked to us (neighbors), school, etc. She attempted suicide after the conclusion of the investigation. It took everything out of her, including her faith in humanity. She was given an option of pressing charges against the complainer but she didn't. I think I would.

 

[DreamSkates]

No words.
But sent the following to Safe Sport via this page https://safesport.org/contact.

Please consider making your voice heard.

"I understand and appreciate the reason for your organization. However, every allegation while under investigation and not proven with definite, significant, specific evidence, should be kept confidential.

Case in point: John Coughlin.

The public cannot handle "innocent until proven guilty." Please consider keeping unresolved cases, completely out of the media. Otherwise, you must bear part of the responsibility for the consequences to the athlete, for his/her career, family, and other effects."

 

[rustymuffins]

Not going to happen. If further abuse happens after an organization is aware of damaging allegations, then they're responsible for it. The FBI also kept quiet during their Nassar investigation. More little girls were abused.

I hope there is more transparency in the future about the allegations towards Coughlin.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

It’s called due process! He was being forced to live like he was found guilty!!

Isn't it amazing that people think due process and "innocent till found guilty" concepts do not apply in these cases. What higher purpose does it serve to make accusations public knowledge until they are proven to be true? The outcome of an investigation becomes irrelevant. The person is already convicted. They are guilty in the eyes of the public. Forever.

 

[DreamSkates]

All people calling for keeping abuse quiet are hypocrites. While I feel sadness for the family, I feel anger that anyone would want abuse covered up because they like the accused. This is a disgusting mentality.

Agreed, but while there is an investigation going on, this should not be made public for anyone to make a judgment based on specific information not known.

 

[DreamSkates]

Another source to make your thoughts known https://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84141

 

[DreamSkates]

Not going to happen. If further abuse happens after an organization is aware of damaging allegations, then they're responsible for it. The FBI also kept quiet during their Nassar investigation. More little girls were abused.

I hope there is more transparency in the future about the allegations towards Coughlin.

Transparency for the general public? Why do we need to know until the investigation is complete and all evidence one way or the other is known?

 

[caitie]

Transparency for the general public? Why do we need to know until the investigation is complete and all evidence one way or the other is known?

So more people can come forward, as has happened in so many of these situations.

 

[DreamSkates]

https://www.facebook.com/100007742776599/posts/2222825351318869/

An important quote from her facebook post:
"To those who have been “reporting” on social media. I’m sure you will receive a lot of likes for what I’m about to say. SHAME ON YOU for your insensitive and ignorant postings without knowing all the facts! You speak of transparency, well here’s one for you. As Americans, it’s our civil right to be innocent until proven guilty! John NEVER got to exercise that right before losing everything, including his life."

 

[Spun Silver]

All people calling for keeping abuse quiet are hypocrites. While I feel sadness for the family, I feel anger that anyone would want abuse covered up because they like the accused. This is a disgusting mentality.

The problem is, until an investigation has been done, it is not necessarily abuse that is being covered up -- it is *allegations* of abuse. The whole point of an investigation is to determine if abuse has happened. Waiting for an investigation to be completed is not the same thing as covering up for known abusers.