Italian figure skating news & updates

[karmena]

... perhaps they want to let their skaters at least to enjoy Christmas's treats without sense of guilt!- Nationals already behind....

 

[skatingguy]

A Catholic country like Italy is having this moments before Christmas? Why did so many Europeans have it around Christmas?

And when are Europeans? January or February? I always wondered why many countries have say the 2024 national championships in 2023

The ISU European Championships are January 8th-14th, so holding the national championships before Christmas gives the skaters a chance to rest, and recover.

 

[On My Own]

So what is the reason behind Circelli's switch, since it indeed seems confirmed?

 

[Sk8swan]

Usually Italian Nationals are scheduled around mid-december and not so close to Christmas... But this season many Ita skaters had chance to qualify for the GPFinal and GPFinal is taking place in China which means long journey and jet leg. Having nationals the week after the GPFinal it wouln't have been the best idea.

 

[Andrea82]

Entries for National Championships


JUNIOR ICE DANCE
Irene Barreri / Alessandro Di Giorgio
Martina Lavazza / Davide Pettigiani
Marta Marinoni / Giovanni Stefano Poli
Beatrice Ventura / Stefano Frasca
Noemi Maria Tali / Noah Elias Lafornara
Giulia Isabella Paolino / Andrea Tuba
Alice Pizzorni / Massimiliano Bucciarelli
Vittoria Petracchi / Daniel Basile
Alessia Rocci / Andrea Capuci

SENIOR ICE DANCE
Giorgia Galimberti / Matteo Libasse Mandelli
Leia Francesca DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI
Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI
Victoria Manni / Carlo Antonio Guido Roethlisberger

SENIOR PAIRS
Sara Conti / Niccolo Macii
Irma Angela Sofia CALDARA / Riccardo Maria MAGLIO
Lucrezia BECCARI / Matteo GUARISE
Rebecca GHILARDI / Filippo AMBROSINI
Anna Valesi / Manuel Piazza

SENIOR MEN
Circelli Corey
Frangipani Gabriele
Memola Nikolaj
Rizzo Matteo
Zich Raffaele Francesco

SENIOR WOMEN
Ghezzo Amanda
Gutmann Lara Naki
Joos Sarina
Minighini Chiara
Napolitano Irina
Negrello Ginevra Lavinia
Pezzetta Anna
Piredda Marina
Tornaghi Alessia

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

SENIOR MEN
Circelli Corey
Frangipani Gabriele
Memola Nikolaj
Rizzo Matteo
Zich Raffaele Francesco

i’m still curious and wondering if somethings going to be published about Daniel instead of guessing what initial steps are instead of us having to assume he is out for an indefinite period of time

 

[skatingguy]

i’m still curious and wondering if somethings going to be published about Daniel instead of guessing what initial steps are instead of us having to assume he is out for an indefinite period of time

Based on what's happened with doping cases in the past year, no we won't know anything definitive until the case has been adjudicated, and a punishment decided.

 

[Belsornia]

SENIOR ICE DANCE
Giorgia Galimberti / Matteo Libasse Mandelli
Leia Francesca DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI
Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI
Victoria Manni / Carlo Antonio Guido Roethlisberger

Was there ever any news on Elisabetta Lecardi / Mattia Dalla Torre after their injury last season?

 

[Karen-W]

The Italian doping agency is requesting a 2 year ban for Grassl -

https://twitter.com/fs_gossips/status/1732793762370195730?t=ajBLOJZt4vz7Yi1snZfpYA&s=19

 

[kosjenka]

Grassl is such a headcase.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I just don’t get it, he left coaches that were helping him improve if you ask me, and then heads to the coach that was under a big microscope for doping, and Olympic medals still have not been given out because of doping and that’s where he goes? And then misses was it three doping appointments? I just don’t understand this at all.

 

[Alilou]

I just don’t get it, he left coaches that were helping him improve if you ask me, and then heads to the coach that was under a big microscope for doping, and Olympic medals still have not been given out because of doping and that’s where he goes? And then misses was it three doping appointments? I just don’t understand this at all.

Sometimes people are just self-destructive - almost always without being aware of it.

 

[coppertop1]

It's just so confusing. It's not even like Eteri has a great track record with the Men. Going to Russia right now is questionable but training under Tutberidze? Just. . . why? Then he misses those tests.

 

[ostile17]

I think someone over here (Italy) wanted to get rid of him desperately after his decision to go to Tut.

Maybe I am just naive, but I do not believe for a second that Daniel would miss those tests willingly.

 

[Holy Headband]

Someone on Twitter made the point that it's unimaginable that a skater with Grassl's competitive experience would simply forget to update his address through not just one but three doping tests and it's more likely that Eteri and co. instructed him to ignore the summons expecting they would be able to finesse the situation the way they've been doing for their Russian/quasi-Russian skaters, but they underestimated their ability to manipulate international institutions on behalf of an Italian and/or their influence must have diminished more than they realised.

Not sure if I buy that, but it's one more unfounded theory.

 

[Karen-W]

I think someone over here (Italy) wanted to get rid of him desperately after his decision to go to Tut.

Maybe I am just naive, but I do not believe for a second that Daniel would miss those tests willingly.

I don't think, for a hot second, that anyone in Italy wanted to "get rid" of Grassl as punishment for going to Eteri.

Daniel has demonstrated considerable immaturity over the years but he is still one of Italy's top two men until another guy comes along and defeats him. And these guys would want to beat him on the ice, fairly & squarely, as would their coaches & support staff. They aren't all Mama Anissinas with alleged connection to the Russian mafia.

 

[Andrea82]

Sarina Joos won Golden Spin, easily outscoring Pezzetta and Gutmann there.
Pezzetta prevailed over Gutmann. Both had various mistakes. The thing is that the PCS that Gutmann receives in domestic competitions aren't there internationally. More generous scoring in domestic competitions isn't unusual, but the gap between domestic and international PCS is usually higher for Gutmann than Pezzetta.

Piredda had a decent outing at EduSport.

 

[ninjapirate]

Someone on Twitter made the point that it's unimaginable that a skater with Grassl's competitive experience would simply forget to update his address through not just one but three doping tests and it's more likely that Eteri and co. instructed him to ignore the summons expecting they would be able to finesse the situation the way they've been doing for their Russian/quasi-Russian skaters, but they underestimated their ability to manipulate international institutions on behalf of an Italian and/or their influence must have diminished more than they realised.

Not sure if I buy that, but it's one more unfounded theory.

What I find baffling about the discourse on Russian doping from people like TSL and the skatingscores guy is that there's zero attempt whatsoever to understand how Russians would go about doping without getting caught. Any doping that happens is very targeted and they certainly think about the risks and rewards.

The idea that Eteri would bring in a foreign student from a western country and immediately tell him to stiff the doping tests is just ridiculous. She neither cares about him nor can really trust him.

 

[rfisher]

What I find baffling about the discourse on Russian doping from people like TSL and the skatingscores guy is that there's zero attempt whatsoever to understand how Russians would go about doping without getting caught. Any doping that happens is very targeted and they certainly think about the risks and rewards.

The idea that Eteri would bring in a foreign student from a western country and immediately tell him to stiff the doping tests is just ridiculous. She neither cares about him nor can really trust him.

She didn't tell him to skip the tests. She's not stupid and most certainly wouldn't want any additional issues with doping. Don't believe a word TSL prints about her as it's all their conjecture. She's said he was irresponsible and didn't take training seriously. She had already asked him to leave before his missing the tests was made public. This is all on Daniel.

 

[Karen-W]

She didn't tell him to skip the tests. She's not stupid and most certainly wouldn't want any additional issues with doping. Don't believe a word TSL prints about her as it's all their conjecture. She's said he was irresponsible and didn't take training seriously. She had already asked him to leave before his missing the tests was made public. This is all on Daniel.

Makes you wonder what stories the Letovs and other folks at SCoB could tell about him if that was the media culture here in the US with regard to figure skating.

 

[rfisher]

Makes you wonder what stories the Letovs and other folks at SCoB could tell about him if that was the media culture here in the US with regard to figure skating.

Any time a skater is coach hopping that much, there are issues with the skater and not the coaches. Hopefully, he'll use his time to grow up if he decides to continue skating at all. I hope he does as I think he's talented, but there's more to being successful than talent. There's no way he'd survive in the training atmosphere at Tutberidze's rink. They expect self-discipline and focus from all their skaters and he doesn't have it. That relationship was doomed before it started.

 

[sus2850]

I still think it was probably him being naive/stupid to miss these tests. He seems to be the type of person who relies on others to sort things out like providing his address in the online registration system for the testing bodies. Maybe his coaches/family usually did that.
When were those tests? While he was in Russia or when he had already left Russia again? How do you get notified that you missed a test?

 

[swissskate]

Hopefully, he'll use his time to grow up if he decides to continue skating at all. I hope he does as I think he's talented, but there's more to being successful than talent.

I totally agree, I think he‘s pretty cocky and really needs to gain maturity. If he really gets 2 years ban that still gives him the possibility to qualify and participate to Cortina/Milano Olympics.

 

[Vagabond]

Makes you wonder what stories the Letovs and other folks at SCoB could tell about him if that was the media culture here in the US with regard to figure skating.

It's not just the media culture. Coaches in the U.S. don't, as a rule, disparage their skaters publicly. And thank goodness for that!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

If he really gets 2 years ban that still gives him the possibility to qualify and participate to Cortina/Milano Olympics.

it does?

 

[Karen-W]

it does?

The ban would probably start on the date he missed the 3rd test, so sometime during the late summer - August or September 2023. If it does wind up being a 2-year ban, that would give him the entire fall season to compete and work toward qualifying.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The ISU Anti-Doping Rules (doc 2344) state:

10.13 Commencement of Ineligibility Period​

Where a Skater is already serving a period of Ineligibility for an anti-doping rule violation, any new period of Ineligibility shall commence on the first day after the current period of Ineligibility has been served. Otherwise, except as provided below, the period of Ineligibility shall start on the date of the final hearing decision providing for Ineligibility or, if the hearing is waived or there is no hearing, on the date Ineligibility is accepted or otherwise imposed.​

​

10.13.1 Delays Not Attributable to the Skater or other Person​

Where there have been substantial delays in the hearing process or other aspects of​

Doping Control, and the Skater or other Person can establish that such delays are not attributable to the Skater or other Person, the ISU Disciplinary Commission may start the period of Ineligibility at an earlier date commencing as early as the date of Sample collection or the date on which another anti-doping rule violation last occurred. All competitive results achieved during the period of Ineligibility, including retroactive Ineligibility, shall be Disqualified.​

The only references in the GP Announcement for who can be on the Alternates List is the Top 24 SB and winners of Challenger Events; the latter are supposed to go at the bottom of the list, which is singles is Never. Italy does not have a host GP in which they could save a spot for him. If he would be eligible at the initial selection, he would qualify as a Return Skate, having had a top 12 finish at 2023 Worlds and missing the 2024-5 season.

I was trying to think of an example of a skater or team who competed in GP as soon as they became eligible as a Comeback/Return Skater or Split Couple, but Kostner didn't decide until November 2016 to compete again, and Volosozhar's one-year waiting period after representing Ukraine in Vancouver didn't end until after GP. Does anyone know of an example of an unwritten rule that would allow skaters in these categories to be eligible as alternates after the Initial Selection?

 

[Karen-W]

The ISU Anti-Doping Rules (doc 2344) state:

10.13 Commencement of Ineligibility Period​

Where a Skater is already serving a period of Ineligibility for an anti-doping rule violation, any new period of Ineligibility shall commence on the first day after the current period of Ineligibility has been served. Otherwise, except as provided below, the period of Ineligibility shall start on the date of the final hearing decision providing for Ineligibility or, if the hearing is waived or there is no hearing, on the date Ineligibility is accepted or otherwise imposed.​

​

10.13.1 Delays Not Attributable to the Skater or other Person​

Where there have been substantial delays in the hearing process or other aspects of​

Doping Control, and the Skater or other Person can establish that such delays are not attributable to the Skater or other Person, the ISU Disciplinary Commission may start the period of Ineligibility at an earlier date commencing as early as the date of Sample collection or the date on which another anti-doping rule violation last occurred. All competitive results achieved during the period of Ineligibility, including retroactive Ineligibility, shall be Disqualified.​

The only references in the GP Announcement for who can be on the Alternates List is the Top 24 SB and winners of Challenger Events; the latter are supposed to go at the bottom of the list, which is singles is Never. Italy does not have a host GP in which they could save a spot for him. If he would be eligible at the initial selection, he would qualify as a Return Skate, having had a top 12 finish at 2023 Worlds and missing the 2024-5 season.

I was trying to think of an example of a skater or team who competed in GP as soon as they became eligible as a Comeback/Return Skater or Split Couple, but Kostner didn't decide until November 2016 to compete again, and Volosozhar's one-year waiting period after representing Ukraine in Vancouver didn't end until after GP. Does anyone know of an example of an unwritten rule that would allow skaters in these categories to be eligible as alternates after the Initial Selection?

Nope. In fact, if you'll recall, Calalang/Johnson were ONLY eligible for a SkAm host spot while she was suspended. They weren't eligible at the time the initial GP assignments came out and that was that.

 

[Karen-W]

Euros entries are due tomorrow - am curious what the criteria for Italy is, especially since Nationals isn't until next week. Italy has 3 spots in Men, Pairs & Dance, 1 spot in Women.

The Men, Pairs & Dance selections seem rather obvious - Rizzo, Frangipani, Memola; Conti/Macii, Ghilardi/Ambrosini, Beccari/Guarise; and Guignard/Fabbri, Manni/Roethlisberger, Dozzi/Papetti.

The Women's spot... ??? Seems like it's between Gutmann, Negrello, Joos, and Pezzetta?

 

[Andrea82]

Euros entries are due tomorrow - am curious what the criteria for Italy is, especially since Nationals isn't until next week. Italy has 3 spots in Men, Pairs & Dance, 1 spot in Women.

The Men, Pairs & Dance selections seem rather obvious - Rizzo, Frangipani, Memola; Conti/Macii, Ghilardi/Ambrosini, Beccari/Guarise; and Guignard/Fabbri, Manni/Roethlisberger, Dozzi/Papetti.

The Women's spot... ??? Seems like it's between Gutmann, Negrello, Joos, and Pezzetta?

They released the usual document with the selection criteria* this summer.
However, said document indicates that the selection for Euros takes place at the end of Nationals....but then Nationals were scheduled after the entry deadline (well, they can technically enter some names and then change them next week using the named subs).

*
The ranking is calculated by adding the total score (including choreo sequence and step sequences) of the Italian Championships with:
- 2 highest total scores obtained in ISU calendar competitions and in national and international interclub competitions of the FISG calendar deliberated by the Federal Council (multiplied by 0.9 or by 1 as specified in point 2** of the end of season ranking calculation) for European Championships and YOUNG OLYMPICS (YOG).

**
1. The ranking is calculated by summing the total score of the Italian Championships with the three highest total scores from among those obtained in competitions on the ISU calendar and in national and international interclub competitions on the FISG calendar decided by the Federal Council.
2. The Total Score, after selecting the competitions as per point 1, is multiplied by 0.9.
The Total Score of the best of the Italian Championships Series, ISU Events, Challenger Circuit events, Olympic Games, YOGs, EYOFs, World Team Trophy and World University Games is counted at 100% and so multiplied by 1.
3. In the individual Senior category, the step sequence score is subtracted from the total score and then multiplied as indicated above.
...
If there is between 20 points in the ranking between two contenders, selection committee can select whoever they prefer among those in contention.

If I select the top 3 scores (so a third international competition instead of Nationals) for each I would get
Gutmann 168.63 (GP) + 165.73 (GP) + 194.28 (domestic competition in Padova)=528.64 -13.55 from step sequences=515.09
Joos 179.4 (Golden Spin) +163.71 (181.9 from Tallin Trophy multiplied by 0.9) + 182.93 (domestic competition in Torino)=526.04 - 13.84 from StSq=512.2
Pezzetta 179.59 (Warsaw Cup) +163.62 (Finlandia Trophy) + 165.54 (domestic competition in Padova)=508.75-11.17 from StSq=497.58
Negrello is much behind. She has 169.72 from domestic competition in Padova, 165.58 from domestic competition in Torino (must be multiplied by 0.9 as the only top domestic competition is counted fully) + 137.5 from Nice Trophy (152.78 multiplied by 0.9).

If I select top 2 scores, I would get
Gutmann 168.63 (GP) + 194.28 (domestic competition in Padova)=362.91 -8.98 from step sequences=353.93
Joos 179.4 (Golden Spin) + 182.93 (domestic competition in Torino)=362.33- 9.93 from StSq=353.3
Pezzetta 179.59 (Warsaw Cup) + 165.54 (domestic competition in Padova)=345.13-7.59 from StSq=337.54
Negrello 318.7 - 7.27 from StSq=311.4

Italy have women 2 spots for Euros

Edit: it is not clear to me if step sequences are counted only for Nationals or for every competition...anyway, they don't change the picture.