ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

[Brenda_Bottems]

I had the unfortunate opportunity to meet Miss Temple at a benefit gala in the mid 1990s. Dreadful lady. She may have been a competent and well-prepared child actor,but by this point she was a haughty and jealous woman.

Taking this into account,it is clear the World Championships should proceed as originally planned.

-BB

 

[MacMadame]

But calling them professional implies they are better than elite skaters.

No, no it doesn't. There is nothing about the term professional that implies some sort of super-eliteism. They are overlapping but not equivalent terms.

 

[taz'smum]

No, no it doesn't. There is nothing about the term professional that implies some sort of super-eliteism. They are overlapping but not equivalent terms.

As an English teacher I've gone back and looked at how the dictionary defines the noun professional.

professional | noun

1. a person engaged or qualified in a profession:
   • professionals such as lawyers and surveyors. ​
2. a person engaged in a specified activity, especially a sport, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime
   • : his first season as a professional.​
3. a person competent or skilled in a particular activity:
   • she was a real professional on stage.​

Since skating is the main occupation of most international skaters and it is definitely not a pastime, they are professionals according to the above dictionary definition 2.
They are also skilled in skating, so they are professionals according to definition 3 as well.

 

[MsZem]

The Swedish police doesn't care about any of this. They're certainly not going to bar skaters from entering the country for the World Championships.

 

[Sylvia]

Nov. 27th update on the Worlds website:

Championships with focus on health and safety - Stockholm 2021, ISU World Figure Skating Championships

stockholm2021.se

A major uncertainty for all organizers of international sports events in Sweden has been the entry ban from countries outside EU. The Swedish government recently decided that from November 20, participants in international sports events are allowed to travel to Sweden from all countries.

We are happy that one of the biggest obstacles to being able to carry out the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021 has now been removed, says Ulrika Molin.

 

[Bigbird]

As an English teacher I've gone back and looked at how the dictionary defines the noun professional.

professional | noun

1. a person engaged or qualified in a profession:
   • professionals such as lawyers and surveyors. ​
2. a person engaged in a specified activity, especially a sport, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime
   • : his first season as a professional.​
3. a person competent or skilled in a particular activity:
   • she was a real professional on stage.​

Since skating is the main occupation of most international skaters and it is definitely not a pastime, they are professionals according to the above dictionary definition 2.
They are also skilled in skating, so they are professionals according to definition 3 as well.

It has come to this.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Did you read my post for understanding at all?

A thousand apologies. Yours was not the post I was referring to.
Japanfan: "I don't think of child actors as professional actors, actually. They mostly play themselves in an appealing or charismatic way."

I am going to ground myself. I am no longer allowed to use my phone to copy/paste.

 

[missing]

U.S. Nationals isn't an ISU event but this seemed like a reasonable place to put the following.

It's a tweet from Philip Hersh:

Philip Hersh

@olyphil

Have heard that nearly one-third of 60-odd judges and officials originally named to work
@USFigureSkating champs next month in Las Vegas have opted out because of Covid. Alternates would ostensibly replace them. “50/50” source said of chances event will take place.

 

[Vagabond]

Can't the judges just send in their marks before the event?

 

[Colonel Green]

Can't the judges just send in their marks before the event?

 

[taz'smum]

Can't the judges just send in their marks before the event?

That made me chuckle!

 

[jamesy]

Can't the judges just send in their marks before the event?

And then we put cardboard cutouts in the judges seats.

 

[Vash01]

Can they judge virtually? I know it is hard to judge speed, etc. on a screen, instead of at a rink.

An alternative could be (if possible) each judge gets his/her plastic transparent cube. That still doesn’t eliminate the infections on the way to their seats.

 

[Cutting the Ice]

Nov. 27th update on the Worlds website:

Championships with focus on health and safety - Stockholm 2021, ISU World Figure Skating Championships

stockholm2021.se

That is good news. There are still some outstanding issues, however.

Will skaters, coaches and officials need to quarantine on arrival in Sweden? We know that exposure to COVID is common on airplanes, despite precautions.

Will those that must connect through airports in the EU to get to Sweden, be allowed to if they come from countries currently banned from entering that zone?

I am sure there are lots of emails flying and heated zoom calls happening. We would hate for some countries' skaters to have a disadvantage at worlds because of this virus. Its already a sizable issue because of the lack of international competition this year.

 

[Sylvia]

Tweeted just now by Phil Hersh - "In response to my question today of whether the Russian Figure Skating Federation should be sanctioned for flouting C*vid safety guidelines at #RostelecomCup2020, especially given the recent C*vid positives among top Russian skaters, ISU president Jan Dijkema sent this reply": https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1334949733341736960
(cont.) "While the response was appreciated, claiming shortage of information does not fly, since anyone who watched event on TV could see lack of masking and social distancing during the competition, and video of athletes elbow-to-elbow at post-event banquet was posted on social media."

ETA that Irina Slutskaya has clapped back re. Hersh's recent tweets:

Слуцкая категорически против отмены соревнования из-за ковида

Двукратная чемпионка мира в женском одиночном катании Ирина Слуцкая в разговоре с «СЭ» выступила против отмены соревнований из-ха коронавируса.

www.sport-express.ru

Google translated excerpt:

- Still, not an American journalist needs to draw conclusions about non-compliance with the distance at the Russian Grand Prix. All adults and everyone know about this distance. Journalists from America, of course, are "important" figures in solving such pressing issues, but it seems to me that it would be good for them to first understand what is happening in their country, and then comment on our stories. As I said, you can cancel events such as banquets after the competition, you can protect yourself from communicating with a large number of people, but let's not forget that even those who follow all the precautions still catch the v*rus. This is the will of some case, and it is wrong to cancel the competition or even derail the season. So we will lose both Russian and world sports and athletes.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Miss Slutskaya's argument above is as logical as her skating was ladylike and balletic. Did they not serve hamburgers at the banquet?

I am hardly a fan of COVID scare tactics and restrictions,as I find much of it to be politicized theatre. However,the Russians clearly blatantly ignored the governing body's guidelines and must be punished accordingly. I propose Russia should be banned from the World Championships for ignoring guidelines and also for the safety of other skaters.

Everyone else has to wear a mask, 'social distance',and be subjected to low-quality feline cardboard cutouts. Why should Russia be exempt? Accountability matters.

-BB

 

[Vagabond]

If I didn't know you better, BB, I would say you were trolling us.

 

[starrynight]

I posted something similar in the From Russia With Love thread .. and the truth is other sports (including contact sports like rugby union where all the players are rolling around on top of each other) have been played in the UK and Europe safely.

But that has taken really strong measures - including camping athletes in bubbles and requiring their home situations to also be in a bubble. Which you can do when the team are all adults and are salaried players who get hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in salary plus benefits.

That kind of stuff is harder for skating, as it's an amateur sport done mostly by children. Some of the training camps like Sambo probably have any average age of about 14 or even 13 with kids younger than 12 training elite. They can't bubble them because they need to go home to families and then have parents and siblings who need to go out into the community.

But I do think that Slutskaya has a point about the USA getting on it's high horse. As a nation, it's not got a leg to stand on. But this is about sports safety not politics.

But the display at Rostelecom was undoubtedly cringe worthy. It really is the responsibility of officials to just put these rules in place for the athletes and coaches and enforce them.

 

[misskarne]

I don't much like Phil Hersh, but in this case he has a point. This was an ISU sanctioned event and just about everybody involved flouted guidelines and oh dear, now it turns out Rostelecom was a super-spreader. What a shock.

This was the ISU's chance to take a strong stand about following guidelines and restrictions and they blew it, surprise surprise.

 

[Deleted member 221]

So Russian skaters spread it to each other? Why is this an international issue? Why are unaffected parties complaining to the ISU based on social media posts? If people who were at the banquet were upset, let them complain. Otherwise, MYOFB.

If one accepts C19 as an inevitability, getting it in November (post-GP, pre-Euros/Worlds) is not such a bad idea. Build it into your season. Lots of time to recover before March.

 

[starrynight]

This was an ISU sanctioned event and just about everybody involved flouted guidelines and oh dear, now it turns out Rostelecom was a super-spreader. What a shock.

I think that these 'Grand Prix's' were just treated as domestic competitions with all the decisions just up to the host country.

There were no universal safety measures in place. It certainly fell short of any kind of proper 'ISU Sanction'.

Which does make the ISU look like a paper tiger in a heavy storm. And doesn't reflect well on the ISUs ability to oversee any additional safe competitions.

If there is no ability for the ISU to actually control these competitions, I think that reflects just as badly on the ISU. If they do intend on holding worlds this year, the ISU had better quickly grow a backbone and start ensuring safety standards are actually enforced.

Ideally, there should be a set safety procedure in place and the host countries of any ISU events and all athletes and coaches should have to follow it. No exceptions made for any country, or for any culture or attitudes. That's what a proper internationally sanctioned event should be. (Again I repeat my concerns about the host being Sweden, one of the countries that has developed a notorious international reputation for their approach to safety measures).

 

[allezfred]

So Russian skaters spread it to each other? Why is this an international issue? Why are unaffected parties complaining to the ISU based on social media posts? If people who were at the banquet were upset, let them complain. Otherwise, MYOFB.

https://tinyurl.com/yys9r7og

(mandatory for ISU Championships, ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final, ISU World
Cup Speed Skating, ISU World Cup Short Track, ISU World Team Trophy
and strongly recommended for all International Competitions,
including individual Grand Prix events)

5. Social Events
Until further notice, the following social events must NOT be held during ISU Events:
• Opening Reception(s)
• ISU Officials & Judges Dinner
• Closing Banquet
• Hospitality area at the hotel
• Organized Excursions (tours).

Now you can say that these guidelines were only strongly recommended for Grand Prix events, but what happened at Rostelecom Cup was essentially a massive two fingers. And while it was largely a domestic Russian event, it was by far the most international of any of the four Grand Prixs held this season.

 

[misskarne]

So Russian skaters spread it to each other? Why is this an international issue? Why are unaffected parties complaining to the ISU based on social media posts? If people who were at the banquet were upset, let them complain. Otherwise, MYOFB.

I'll probably regret answering someone who has just been a deliberately obtuse moron about this whole thing, but here we go:

1) The Rostelecom Cup, even despite its domestic status, was still a sanctioned ISU Grand Prix. Therefore, the ISU should have had some level of oversight of this event. If they're going to call them Grands Prix, then the implication is that the ISU is having a say.

2) It is an international issue because if Euros (unwisely) goes ahead, Russian skaters/coaches/judges/officials will be in attendance. Having shown their flagrant disregard for the restrictions, there is a very real risk that they a) bring the rona with them to Euros and b) spread it to other skaters/coaches/judges/officials through their own lack of care.

If one accepts C19 as an inevitability, getting it in November (post-GP, pre-Euros/Worlds) is not such a bad idea. Build it into your season. Lots of time to recover before March.

Oh yes, I'm sure, unless you know, you happen to get holes in your lungs, heart problems, even any kind of reduced lung capacity. But that's all just collateral damage to you, I know.

 

[Orm Irian]

1) The Rostelecom Cup, even despite its domestic status, was still a sanctioned ISU Grand Prix. Therefore, the ISU should have had some level of oversight of this event. If they're going to call them Grands Prix, then the implication is that the ISU is having a say.

Indeed, and to add to that, there were skaters from outside Russia present. I'm sure Eva-Lotta Kiibus, Allison Reed and Saulius Ambrulevicius, etc, are just thrilled to bits to learn that their risk level from attending this event has blown sky-high.

 

[mjb52]

Athletes in other sports have been diagnosed with coronavirus, I'm not sure where people are getting this impression that this is unusual. It's not. They quarantine for two weeks and, knocking on wood, then they come back and go on competing. We care about these skaters and worry about them, I'll be worried of course until I hear that they are back on ice. Nonetheless its important to keep things in perspective.

 

[starrynight]

It's difficult for the athletes who have paid the price of missing competitions and training time.

Last time Tuktamysheva had pneumonia, she was completely politically screwed by her fed and lost her spot at Worlds. And that was in the year when she could very well have won a medal at worlds.

There's every risk that the same thing could happen again. The problem for the Russian girls is that they are viewed as disposable, so if Nationals rolls on when they are still ill or undertrained, it's just too bad.

 

[mjb52]

I think it's very clear from reading comments from Russian coaches that they will be taking into account more than the results at Nationals if needed. World's won't be until late March, they'll probably do some kind of test skate or something to check on readiness. Nothing is going to be perfect. And I'm don't agree that they view the girls or other skaters as disposable, they have a lot of talent and three spots. It's a tough situation.

 

[Gris]

If one accepts C19 as an inevitability, getting it in November (post-GP, pre-Euros/Worlds) is not such a bad idea. Build it into your season. Lots of time to recover before March.

Tell that to Anastasia Shpilevaya.

 

[Cherub721]

Last time Tuktamysheva had pneumonia, she was completely politically screwed by her fed and lost her spot at Worlds. And that was in the year when she could very well have won a medal at worlds.

And yet knowing all that she attended the banquet and was the one posting all the videos.

 

[skatfan]

If one accepts C19 as an inevitability, getting it in November (post-GP, pre-Euros/Worlds) is not such a bad idea. Build it into your season. Lots of time to recover before March

But we don’t accept a contagious disease as serious as this as inevitable. The NFL players who now have heart problems following their COVID diagnosis aren’t recovering any time soon. Long COVID is a thing too. Let’s hope Kostornaia and others evade those effects.