Bellanca
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Chen, not only managed athletic superiority, but academic and artistic as well, and it all relates.Hmmm, I've never noticed before that Adam has a bubble-butt.
However, I have noticed Chen's quads ... which is why he is the World Champion...
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Maria Sotskova's tanos.I also think -2 for "ugly" arm positions is a bit much. And, again, what is "ugly".
That is correct, there should be balance. But! what you're saying is healthy approach: figure skating is both, athletics and artistry. Let's evaluate if (in this case) artistry is rewarded sufficiently.I think the question is whether the sport should reward excellent jumping with good skating over excellent skating with good jumping. Is it primarily a jumping contest or a skating contest?
This is not unique to quads. Whenever skaters are pushing the envelope with jumps, we get this. (And sometimes even when they aren't.)We also need to watch for the splat-fest. Even though more men are now landing quads, quads have made competitions messier and have prevented some of the best skaters we have from getting on podiums.
I bet someone likes them.Maria Sotskova's tanos.
Maria Sotskova will hate them as well, if she wasn’t doing them. May be she will give an interview after her retirement to state how she hated those tanos, but was necessity of the time, etc.I bet someone likes them.
I don't mind some falls, but I also think we've had plenty of years for quads to progress that we shouldn't be having splatfests for quads. Usually the messy stage of new difficulty lasts one Olympic cycle, not two.This is not unique to quads. Whenever skaters are pushing the envelope with jumps, we get this. (And sometimes even when they aren't.)
In the end, it's a sport and the sport cannot progress if people don't push the envelope even if that means that sometimes programs get messy.
I love this idea. I think it would be interesting to see something like a Tano or Rippon added to the BV.Personally, I would like to see rewards for pushing the envelope in other kinds of jump difficulty besides number of rotations in the air.
And also for high difficulty and quality in on-ice technical skills, combinations of different kinds of skills, use of technical skills to serve artistic purposes, etc.
Some of this has been addressed by various rule changes over the years. Other specifics do not appear to have been considered at all.
I think it would be cool to see something like that if they could get the base values right. Maybe a tuck leg position could be +.50 on the BV or something? Or perhaps Tanos/Rippons could be +.25? I don't even know if it's physically possible, but tuck loops look cool, so I think seeing tuck 2Lo's or tuck 3Lo's would be cool.
Or perhaps there could be a bonus for doing jumps in both directions.
Maria Sotskova's tanos.
However, since you’re talking about sports and sport fans’ expectations in general, even general sports fans don’t want to see a competition where everybody is making mistakes left and right and nobody is capable of skating well.
My hypothesis is that this complaint is almost unique to skating, because people watch it more as an art form than a sport.
Do fans walk away from gymnastics or golf complaining they didn't enjoy it because athletes were making mistakes and should focus on elements or shots they are confident they can do with more regularity? My guess is no. But feel free to correct me. I myself don't hear that about other sports.
So fans just need to be self aware about the lense through which they watch skating vs how they watch other sports. Mistakes are a natural part of sport advancement.
We might then say why doesn't skating not adjust to the fans to make them enjoy it better? My answer is that most amateur sports only do so much to accommodate fans. Their needs are secondary and it's the integrity of the sport that needs to and continues to be the priority. Professional sports are more likely to prioritize the fans. Sometimes we lose sight of this dynamic, thinking the fans of skating are more important than we are. It's a strange situation since figure skating has a bigger built in audience than many other (winter) sports.
It's controversial, of course. My personal opinion is that when it comes to competition, and because FS needs to be taken seriously as Olympic sport, IF we have to make a choice of athlete vs. artist, then the superior athlete should be given the nod.Obviously any skater who can excel at all of the above will be able to win. But if it comes down to choices between different skaters with different strengths, whether for gold or for bronze or for 10th or 24th place, what should be worth the most?
It's controversial, of course. My personal opinion is that when it comes to competition, and because FS needs to be taken seriously as Olympic sport, IF we have to make a choice of athlete vs. artist, then the superior athlete should be given the nod.
Well said! Great post!The goal of skating is not to have clean programs. Or even mostly clean. If you want perfection, you're more about the artistry than the sporting aspect. That's fine, but I think your interests would best be served at the ballet or opera (or show skating) because your interest in skating is more for art form.
But alas skating is a sport first. At least if the goal is to continue in the Olympics.
Watch golf. How many hit it into the water or shank it into the trees? Or the sand traps they are trying to avoid. Tons. Constantly. How many gymnasts miss elements, fall off the balance beam or parallel bars? Tons. When this happens we slap our leg and go awwwwww, and then continue on watching, enveloped n the drama (for those who are fans). We don't say these athletes are trying stuff they can't do perfectly all the time so we need to change the rules. So I don't wish this for skating.
What I am in favor of is debating appropriate penalties for missing elements so we don't reward excessive risk taking that doesn't pay off.
Included, as long as the content meets the standard of the discipline.How about the superior technician?
ITA. Another great post!It's controversial, of course. My personal opinion is that when it comes to competition, and because FS needs to be taken seriously as Olympic sport, IF we have to make a choice of athlete vs. artist, then the superior athlete should be given the nod.
It's controversial, of course. My personal opinion is that when it comes to competition, and because FS needs to be taken seriously as Olympic sport, IF we have to make a choice of athlete vs. artist, then the superior athlete should be given the nod.
@Tinami Amori Well, as a competitive skater who finished in the top 10 at the Olympics with no quad, I'd say Adam's doing just fine "waving around and sticking out his bubble-butt." He also has the 7th best average score this year - ahead of many who can do quads (Patrick Chan, Max Aaron, Vincent Zhou, Dmitri Aliev, Sergei Voronov, Alexei Bychenko, Keegan Messing) and with an average only 5 points lower than Kolyada (2 quads in SP, 3 quads in FS) and 6 points lower than Jin (2 quads in SP, 4 quads in FS). And calling him an "as..."? Umm, yeah, okay... Whatever you want to think about him...
Adam's been around the block. He knows how things are changing and that they weren't changing in his favor. As one of the men's competitors who's been around the longest, I think he's in a unique position to comment on the direction of men's figure skating right now.
I do think there needs to be a reform to the quad. I get what he's saying about not everyone being able to do 6 quads. Literally only one skater has done that, and if only one skater remains capable of that, competitions will get less and less interesting. Yes, it is about higher-better-faster-stronger, but parity is good for viewership. If only one man can do 6 quads but 4-5 more skaters can do 3 or 4 quads, maybe we should try to keep quads down to 3 or 4 per program to allow for more parity.
We also need to watch for the splat-fest. Even though more men are now landing quads, quads have made competitions messier and have prevented some of the best skaters we have from getting on podiums. Skating needs to decide if it wants to reward the best jumper or the best all-around skater (jumps, spins, footwork, presentation, etc.).
My bigger concern with quads is the health of skaters. Yes, they're exciting, but do we really want all these injuries to keep on coming or to see all of our favorite skaters getting surgery and chronic pain at a relatively young age from doing all those quads?
Adam isn't exactly a great technical skater, yes. He did fulfill his potential, however, in that he has maxed out on most of his abilities to get his placement.What unique position? Adam can't do quads, and most times he can't even do the difficult triples and combinations well. And adam certainly does not have the best fundamental skating skills (which includes transitions).
This makes me hungry for my wife's favorite crock pot stroganoff.Yes. Her arm looks like a big ole flappy noodle.
@MAXSwagg I don't want to feed the troll, but... Your argument is stupid. The ability to do a quad doesn't make you magically able to be some sort of all-knowing figure skating guru, and the lack of ability to do a quad doesn't make you magically an idiot about figure skating. In fact, many people who decision make in skating - even skaters who advise the ISU and USFSA - have less impressive resumes than Adam. So why shouldn't he be able to have a voice? Would you say that the entirety of most countries' skating leadership - even their ISU representatives - should leave because they couldn't do a quad?
To put it in words that might resonate with you: Should Brian Orser not be allowed to coach your beloved Hanyu or comment on quads because he never landed a quad in competition? Because Adam's landed mores clean quads in competition than Brian Orser has.
Adam's opinion should not be completely invalid because he "can't do quads" (he actually can, and there's video and score sheet evidence of it). His unique position is that he has been in the Senior ranks since before someone with 0 quads won the OGM and has continued to stay competitive when 4+ quads are required for the podium. Not many men's skaters can say the same, and none of the decision makers at the ISU can say that.