I, Tonya

[bardtoob]

The movie is exceeding my expectations in terms of revenue

It has currently brought in about $21 Million.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Evy Scotvold always comes off as bitchy and obsessed with weight.

It is so weird to think an old fat man was saying this stuff.

I know, right! Oh, the irony.

What annoyed me was that in interviews when he'd trash talk, Scotvold would have the most self - important smirk on his face, too.

 

[skateboy]

This is too funny , my mother's friend in Walnut Creek, CA area has a vet named Terry Kubicka, he looks like a respectable professor....
https://fourcornersvet.com/team/terry-p-kubicka-d-v-m/

Yep! He was our family's vet for years.

 

[bardtoob]

The only skater to ever do a legal backflip in competiton!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

This review is everything!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Having watched the movie, I sometimes wonder if Nancy Kerrigan would have had similar media attention, the pro career, or the same place in figure skating history, if 'the incident' had never happened.

 

[Inessence]

Having watched the movie, I sometimes wonder if Nancy Kerrigan would have had similar media attention, the pro career, or the same place in figure skating history, if 'the incident' had never happened.

Honestly, no. Unless one of them won Olympic gold. Harding’s name would still be mentioned in U.S. skating whenever the triple axle subject came up. Especially since it’s still a rarity in women’s skating. Kerrigan? I really don’t see it. Maybe amongst skating circles.

 

[Japanfan]

Harding’s name would still be mentioned in U.S. skating whenever the triple axle subject came up.

And rightfully so. I didn't start watching skating until after the Harding-Kerrigan era - perhaps it was 'the incident' that got me watching in '94, when the men's competition (Urmanov, Stojko and Candeloro ) turned me into a FS fan.

I just watched her '91 Nationals Free Skate - what a tour de force! I think Tonya was very ahead of her time. She would have done well under IJS, with proper guidance.

That 3A was huge!

 

[berthesghost]

This review is everything!

i feel like one of those baby boomers who only want to whine about how awful millenials are I fully admit that masterpiece theater being one of my favorite shows as a child, and interrupting the kids on the schoolyard who wanted to talk about welcome back carter to steer the conversation toward I,Claudius was exactly what made me an odd ball. So watching these two clueless people struggle for several minutes wondering where the title I, Tonya possibly came from was too much for me.

Having watched the movie, I sometimes wonder if Nancy Kerrigan would have had similar media attention, the pro career, or the same place in figure skating history, if 'the incident' had never happened.

yes, but no. She was famous before it. It certainly made her uber famous, but while the fame brought people like Rory flack and Denise beilman out of mothballs to seize the moment, Nancy herself seemed determined to revert back to obscurity as much as possible. She certainly didn't carpe diem it. I kinda get her frustration that she wants to be famous for being a two time Oly medalist, but she'll always be famous for being attacked by her rival.

I think Tonya was very ahead of her time. She would have done well under IJS, with proper guidance.

oh please. She did very well under 6.0 and could have done better but despite having proper guidance, ruined her own chances. She would have f-ed everything up under cop just like she did under 6.0.

 

[skatesindreams]

She did very well under 6.0 and could have done better but despite having proper guidance, ruined her own chances. She would have f-ed everything up under cop just like she did under 6.0.

I agree; she was unwilling to listen to; or follow, any good advice she received.
That seems to have always been true,

 

[cmk]

I think Tonya would have done better under ijs- especially at 93 nationals. Pretty artistic skaters like Ervin who only had up to a 3 loop would be too far behind under ijs, so under IJs, Tonya would make the 93 world team and possibly medal. She would then of had a bye to 94 nationals automatically so the death threat at 93 regionals would never had happened, and she wouldn't of went to NHK (which she opted for instead of sectionals).
Back then, most of the top skaters only did 1 international and maybe a pro-am. She might not of got snubbed for the pro-am eiher and been able to make the $$$ she desperately needed.

IJS would probably also have changed the results of the 92 Olympics as well. Tonya skated a much more difficult long program than Nancy in 92 and if they went by points, Tonya most likely would of got at least the bronze. She also might of been higher than Midori after the short (both fell but Tonya went for 3axel (and ijs gives you points for trying), Midori opted for a 3 lutz combo and also fell). With an Olympic medal in 92, I think Tonya goes pros, does the pro comps and joins Ice Capades. This also means 93 nationals , the 4th place finish there, and the dress popping over never happen. She also wouldn't of had the skate blade malfunction in the 93 skate America free (she was leading after the short, and skating well for early in the season so I think that was an accident) since she would have been on the pro circuit.

I do feel Tonya's reputation as a coach hopper as a bit unfair since she only flipped between Diane and Dody. Bobek changed coaches more often than people change socks.

Evy and Mary Scotvold, as well as Carroll and Heiss Jenkins were starting to complain about Tonya's placements as far back as 92 nationals. The Scotvolds , Carroll, and Heiss didn't think Tonya should of made the team. One of Heiss's
girls was 4th ( I think Ervin that year). Everyone knew Tonya had a bad ankle at 92 nats which is why she was monitored by the usoc after making the team.
Evy was starting to complain about Tonya's weight even back then. He also complained about Tonya's 6th place finish at 92 worlds (first event back with Dianne) claiming Tonya got held up. He thought Hubert should of medalled. He was quoted as saying "he would of been happy with 5th for Nancy (she eaked out another undeserved world medal after a poor free skate) as long she finished over Tonya." Tonya never placed over Nancy again after that comment.

For Evy to be so insistent on his skaters ( and thinking other coache's skaters should be thin as well) is a bit ironic because he was a fat old man. His wife Mary wasn't exactly a beanpole either. She looked overweight sitting in the kiss and cry. I know the tv adds pounds. I did see Kathy Casey (who looked huge on tv) coaching while on vacation in Colorado springs one year, and she wasn't nearly as overweight as I thought she was. She was coaching Scott Hamilton ( I got an autograph from him) and a british skater (probably Cousins).

 

[cmk]

I think Tonya would have done better under ijs- especially at 93 nationals. Pretty artistic skaters like Ervin who only had up to a 3 loop would be too far behind under ijs, so under IJs, Tonya would make the 93 world team and possibly medal. She would then of had a bye to 94 nationals automatically so the death threat at 93 regionals would never had happened, and she wouldn't of went to NHK (which she opted for instead of sectionals).
Back then, most of the top skaters only did 1 international and maybe a pro-am. She might not of got snubbed for the pro-am eiher and been able to make the $$$ she desperately needed.

IJS would probably also have changed the results of the 92 Olympics as well. Tonya skated a much more difficult long program than Nancy in 92 and if they went by points, Tonya most likely would of got at least the bronze. She also might of been higher than Midori after the short (both fell but Tonya went for 3axel (and ijs gives you points for trying), Midori opted for a 3 lutz combo and also fell). With an Olympic medal in 92, I think Tonya goes pros, does the pro comps and joins Ice Capades. This also means 93 nationals , the 4th place finish there, and the dress popping over never happen. She also wouldn't of had the skate blade malfunction in the 93 skate America free (she was leading after the short, and skating well for early in the season so I think that was an accident) since she would have been on the pro circuit.

I do feel Tonya's reputation as a coach hopper as a bit unfair since she only flipped between Diane and Dody. Bobek changed coaches more often than people change socks.

Evy and Mary Scotvold, as well as Carroll and Heiss Jenkins were starting to complain about Tonya's placements as far back as 92 nationals. The Scotvolds , Carroll, and Heiss didn't think Tonya should of made the team. One of Heiss's
girls was 4th ( I think Ervin that year). Everyone knew Tonya had a bad ankle at 92 nats which is why she was monitored by the usoc after making the team.
Evy was starting to complain about Tonya's weight even back then. He also complained about Tonya's 6th place finish at 92 worlds (first event back with Dianne) claiming Tonya got held up. He thought Hubert should of medalled. He was quoted as saying "he would of been happy with 5th for Nancy (she eaked out another undeserved world medal after a poor free skate) as long she finished over Tonya." Tonya never placed over Nancy again after that comment.

For Evy to be so insistent on his skaters ( and thinking other coache's skaters should be thin as well) is a bit ironic because he was a fat old man. His wife Mary wasn't exactly a beanpole either. She looked overweight sitting in the kiss and cry. I know the tv adds pounds. I did see Kathy Casey (who looked huge on tv) coaching while on vacation in Colorado springs one year, and she wasn't nearly as overweight as I thought she was. She was coaching Scott Hamilton ( I got an autograph from him) and a british skater (probably Cousins).

 

[MacMadame]

I think Tonya would have done better under ijs- especially at 93 nationals. Pretty artistic skaters like Ervin who only had up to a 3 loop would be too far behind under ijs, so under IJs, Tonya would make the 93 world team and possibly medal.

The problem with this analysis is that it assumes all the other skaters wouldn't have adjusted to IJS and that exactly the same players would have been in play. It also only takes into account the tech scores and not PCS.

If IJS was in effect, everything would have been different.

 

[bardtoob]

Evy and Mary Scotvold, as well as Carroll and Heiss Jenkins were starting to complain about Tonya's placements as far back as 92 nationals. The Scotvolds , Carroll, and Heiss didn't think Tonya should of made the team. One of Heiss's girls was 4th ( I think Ervin that year). Everyone knew Tonya had a bad ankle at 92 nats which is why she was monitored by the usoc after making the team.

Frank! That's insane. Cindy was suppose to be waiting in the stable for 1992, but had lost all her jumps by 1988. Also, he had so much trouble with Christopher Bowman at that time that, seriously, what was he going to say about Tonya!

On the other hand, maybe Ness might have said something in 1992, and Heiss was desperate to get Tonia some attention although Tonia was only interested in entering jumps perfectly, not actually jumping.

. . . Oh, and if they were going to send Ervin, then they might as well just send Trenary because they both had two 3T, two 3S plus programs but Trenary had a World Championship and the 3F while Ervin only had the 3Lp.

I do feel Tonya's reputation as a coach hopper as a bit unfair since she only flipped between Diane and Dody. Bobek changed coaches more often than people change socks.

It wasn't that you switched, it was between who you switched.

Tonya - Rawlinson and Teachmann in Portland

Bobek - Fassi in Colorado, Carroll in California, Scotvold in Boston, Callahan in Michigan . . .

Nancy herself seemed determined to revert back to obscurity as much as possible.

Nancy wanted to be an athlete known for what she could do. She never wanted to be celebrity known for who she was.

 

[bardtoob]

She would have done well under IJS, with proper guidance.

oh please. She did very well under 6.0 and could have done better but despite having proper guidance, ruined her own chances. She would have f-ed everything up under cop just like she did under 6.0.

I agree; she was unwilling to listen to; or follow, any good advice she received.
That seems to have always been true,

Just the thought of Tonya doing a CoP step sequence

Tonya has some great qualities, including holding deep outside edges with huge lean and being able to demonstrate maintaining a solid flowing edge while kicking back and forth with her free leg and moving her torso . . .

HOWEVER . . . Tonya's footwork always looked so labored. The only appealing step sequences I ever saw from Tonya were pre-1990.

Tonya could have done the jumps and the spins under the current CoP, but she would have been punished, like Kwan, under the early CoP for not being able to do the Beillmann position.

 

[gkelly]

I think Tonya would have done better under ijs- especially at 93 nationals. Pretty artistic skaters like Ervin who only had up to a 3 loop would be too far behind under ijs,

Not necessarily. Don't forget that the very first IJS ladies' event was won by a skater who only did 3T and 3S, competing against others with harder triples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Nebelhorn_Trophy#Ladies

Actually executing the jumps, the quality of the successful jumps and other elements, and all the program component criteria would also count, not just the number/difficulty of triples planned.

It would also depend whether the judges on the panel were inclined to take jump difficulty into account when scoring GOEs and PCS or to consider them independently.

We can only speculate how 1993 judges would have approached those performances with 2003 or 2018 rules.

And, as MacMadame notes, all the skaters would have adjusted their training to optimize their chances under whatever rules were actually in effect at the time.

1993 was part of a transitional period when jump content was still beginning to become more important than "well-roundedness."

 

[bardtoob]

We can only speculate how 1993 judges would have approached those performances with 2003 or 2018 rules.

The 1993 judges could have approached them like the judge from Sochi that got demoted by simply not reading the rules because they were in English, thus derailing the whole system for judging program components.

 

[Tinami Amori]

This review is everything!

thanks, very funny review... (i could not watch, only listened.... because it is hella-hard to look at the cross-breed of Mike Myers and Richard Simmons in salmon shorts with testicles popping out).

 

[Quintuple]

I haven't kept up with this thread, but found this great Fuji TV interview from 1995. It's actually very sweet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tltOAvoI1TY

 

[cmk]

I haven't kept up with this thread, but found this great Fuji TV interview from 1995. It's actually very sweet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tltOAvoI1TY

Tonya did a benefit show in Portland in 1995 but I think it made just enough to cover the expenses and nothing was left to give to the charity. She skated a pairs number with a guy named Patrick (the video used to be up but I can't find it anymore). I think this event was also supposed to be part of a cbs "where are they now" special but the network and Tonya couldn't agree on terms. I am pretty sure there was a solo number in there as well. Fuji-Tv showed everything but only parts of it are currently online.

 

[vesperholly]

. . . Oh, and if they were going to send Ervin, then they might as well just send Trenary because they both had two 3T, two 3S plus programs but Trenary had a World Championship and the 3F while Ervin only had the 3Lp.

Trenary hadn't competed at Nationals since 1990 and officially retired in 1992.

1993 was a dark year for US ladies.

 

[Aussie Willy]

We had the ESPN recent documentary on Australian TV last night. Unbelievable because it is never news here. Even our Australian Pairs team have had no coverage in the news. But because of the movie, they showed it.

What struck me about it was the media coverage back in the day was insane. Absolutely insane. For what the incident was, it was over the top and excessive. It made a good story and I really do think it was a class issue.

Regardless of Tonya's role in it, both girls were hounded by the media and the media behaved quite unethically.

 

[MacMadame]

Btw, when did Tonya get a reputation as a coach hopper? That's a new one on me. There was some about her switching around between Dody and Diane but it was more about the why of it and that she didn't leave Diane for a higher level coach but someone even less well-known.

 

[SkateGuard]

Finally caved and went to go see it today! It was really neat to see EVERY single person in the theatre wait through the credits to watch the footage of her performing at the end.

 

[cmk]

She wouldn't of gotten hammered at nationals because Nicole Bobek was the only top us lady at the time that could do the beilman. Kerrigan, Kwiatkowsi, pretty sure Ervin and Zayak, and Kwan couldn't do it either. Nicole might have got silver over Kwan under ijs if her beilman spin and spiral sequence got positive goe, but she still wouldn't of beat Tonya in 94.

I did finally see the movie. I would of enjoyed it in the theater more but the firestick -like thing finally decided to actually work. It's not coming to a theater near me (Columbus and Cleveland are too far), and I will be buying the dvd when it comes out. Dvd's usually have extras like deleted things because the movie did skip some important things. Margo Robbie was very good as Tonya. Sebastian Stan was a lot better-looking in the real Jeff. Janney nailed the part of Tonya's monster mom. The actor that played the bodyguard was good too.
I think the actresses playing Tonya's coaches didn't get enough screen time

 

[bardtoob]

@cmk

Can you fix the quote so you get credit for what you wrote.

 

[cmk]

which quote?
If you mean the exhibition with the 95 pairs number I can reword it. Tonya was trying to get back into the pro skating world as a pairs skater. A skating friend named Patrick who was a pairs skater agreed to skate with her. I do recall news footage of her doing a throw single axel and some overhead lifts. According to the interview they did get up to the throw 3sal. He did it as a favor so she could afford ice time and keep shape. He eventually had to give it up though because real-life got in the way . (he needed to earn money to support his family and didn't have time after that)

 

[bardtoob]

which quote?

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/i-tonya.101808/page-71#post-5272142

 

[HSCluv]

I really wish Tonya had not insisted on doing 3axel in the short program in the 92 Olympics. Wish she had went for 3Lutz 2toe combo instead.

 

[Aussie Willy]

It is really interesting talking to people here are work who know nothing about skating and just went to see it as a movie. They thought it was an excellent movie with great performances. And that is pretty much it.