I, Tonya

[Tinami Amori]

Very cute! No exactly great for training But very cute!
It must feel freeing to not have to second guess if you look Gulag Chic enough.

Everyone started out on the outside rink, until one showed accomplishments, or caught an eye of an elite level coach, then one was taken to a "covered rink"..
http://deloigra.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/katok_2.jpg
by old standards, Tonya looks like "lucky rich girl".. http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/ht_tonyaarabesque_le_180111_9x11_992.jpg

"Gulag Chic"! what a name for a restaurant..... (and excuse to allow German Shepherds inside)....

 

[MacMadame]

Also, the 1998 competition didn't have the bigger names in skating. I suspect that the people who were there didn't feel like they could make a demand like that.

 

[skatingfan5]

Also, the 1998 competition didn't have the bigger names in skating. I suspect that the people who were there didn't feel like they could make a demand like that.

The 1999 ESPN pro comp had a mixture of skaters -- some more than a decade past their eligible days (like Liz Manley) and others more recently eligible like Surya Bonaly (and Urmanov and Galindo in the Men's event).

 

[vesperholly]

I remember the part about the fur coat in the film, but I don't recall seeing very many non-Russian skaters wearing furs in real life. These days, I wouldn't expect to see a young American skater in a fur at all. There's a lot of social stigma attached to wearing a fur.

When I started skating in the late 80s, the top female coaches at my rink had floor-length fur coats that they wore to competitions. Nowadays you rarely see fur because of the stigma, but coaches are always dressed very nicely - especially at Regionals.

I did appreciate that they put her coach in a head-to-toe snow suit at one point. I remember those well! My freestyle coach had several that she'd cycle through during the week.

 

[MacMadame]

The 1999 ESPN pro comp had a mixture of skaters -- some more than a decade past their eligible days (like Liz Manley) and others more recently eligible like Surya Bonaly

But not Kristi, Oksana, Nancy, etc. I remember this because there were a ton of Pro comps but they seemed to always have the same skaters. This comp had different skaters for the most part (which I was actually happy about) and no A-listers in the Ladies event.

 

[Inessence]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/magazine/i-used-to-insist-i-didnt-get-angry-not-anymore.html

Great section on "I, Tonya" and the whole Tonya & Nancy debacle in the media.

 

[bardtoob]

"Gulag Chic"! what a name for a restaurant..... (and excuse to allow German Shepherds inside)....

If you put down the capital, I can make a meal fit for a gulag, on multiple levels ... Rent could be cheap because grey industrial surrounded by tetnus inducing barbedwire would go with the theme ... I think we can do this.

 

[Tinami Amori]

If you put down the capital, I can make a meal fit for a gulag, on multiple levels ... Rent could be cheap because grey industrial surrounded by tetnus inducing barbedwire would go with the theme ... I think we can do this.

for a gulag meal no making is required...

 

[LarrySK8]

Elaine's fur at the 84 Olympics is classic View it in K & C, I think LP?

I am surprised Tonya can still skate at all given how many times she has shot herself in the foot - um - feet - well you get the picture.

 

[cmk]

Also, the 1998 competition didn't have the bigger names in skating. I suspect that the people who were there didn't feel like they could make a demand like that.

Surya Bonaly (the winner) is a pretty big name in skating. Liz Manley was the 88 Olympic silver medalist (I believe she had lost her triples by this point though). Rory Flack was probably only known to skating fans, although the general public might have saw her in ice capades or nutcracker on ice. The 5 ladies (in order of final placement)- Surya (the clear winner, Tonya, Rory, Tonia K, and Liz. For the men, Candeloro was there (and tripped over a piece of his discarded clothing, Jumping Joe , ukranian guy whose name that I can't spell but I do remember he skated to either I touch myself or dancing with myself, and am blanking on the other 2. Ice Dance- the 4 Russian ice dancers were there but I think Usova skated with Platov, and Pasha skated with Usova's old partner. I don't remember the pairs placements.
I resent the fact that people considered the ladies field weak when it had some of the best female athletic skaters in the sport .

 

[MacMadame]

I didn't say it was weak. I said it didn't have the A-listers.

 

[cmk]

I didn't say it was weak. I said it didn't have the A-listers.

I would put Surya , Phillipe, and Urmanov on the A- List

 

[MacMadame]

Of course, you would. But two of them are men and I was talking about the ladies. Tell me what other big name competitions Surya was invited to, such as Landover, and I'll agree with you that she was A list. IIRC, she wasn't invited to those competitions hence she wasn't A list by definition.

My theory is that the A listers were invited but the ones on the Ladies side declined because Tonya was going to be there.

 

[cmk]

Of course, you would. But two of them are men and I was talking about the ladies. Tell me what other big name competitions Surya was invited to, such as Landover, and I'll agree with you that she was A list. IIRC, she wasn't invited to those competitions hence she wasn't A list by definition.

My theory is that the A listers were invited but the ones on the Ladies side declined because Tonya was going to be there.

Surya did get invited to Landover at least once. She was unfairly placed behind Lucinda Ruh despite doing more difficult triples than most of the ladies (and some of the men). I believe she actually tried a 3 flip and stood up on it (but the landing was either 2 footed, but this was long after she had gone though acl and hip surgeries. ) Ruh only did a 1 loop and was given a world pro bronze because Button decided do give spins equal footing with the jumps. I actually think some of Bonaly's spins were better than Ruhs as well. This might of been the last world pro.

Rosenberg (marco entertainment/sfx) invited the skaters from his stable. Most of the other skaters in the other pro comps were img skaters who tended to get invited to img events (Josee Chounard, Katia, Katerina). I believe Surya was with Mike Burg who was independent of both. Oksana went though several agents including Rosenberg, Burg, and William Morris.

 

[cmk]

Surya also stayed elgible and competed in the 98 Olympics. Her best move in the long program (although it came with a heavy penalty and dropped her all the way to 10th overall) was a backflip landed on one foot with her back facing the judges. Surya turned pro after that and competed in espn pros, at least one world pro, and a few other comps. She was also in many of the Disson shows.

 

[VGThuy]

As for as A-list pro skaters go, I definitely put Surya as an A-Lister because I think if anybody followed televised skating events or caught a bit of it during the 1990s, they'd know of her or the fact that she was a black French woman who did back flips and thus had a unique style and look on the ice. She alone would not be sufficient to sell out events but neither would most A-listers on their own with the exception of maybe Scott Hamilton because he was seen as the face of pro skating forever. Their power was being in one group skating together.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Bonaly was indeed invited to the World Pro twice, in 1999 and 2000.


1999 Metabolife World Professional Figure Skating Championship
December 10-11, 1999

Ladies
1. Tara Lipinski
2. Denise Biellmann
3. Surya Bonaly
4. Oksana Baiul
5. Tonia Kwiatkowski

2000 Hallmark World Professional Figure Skating Championship
December 8-9, 2000

Ladies
1. Yuka Sato
2. Nicole Bobek
3. Lucinda Ruh
4. Surya Bonaly
5. Oksana Baiul

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

As for as A-list pro skaters go, I definitely put Surya as an A-Lister because I think if anybody followed televised skating events or caught a bit of it during the 1990s, they'd know of her or the fact that she was a black French woman who did back flips and thus had a unique style and look on the ice. She alone would not be sufficient to sell out events but neither would most A-listers on their own with the exception of maybe Scott Hamilton because he was seen as the face of pro skating forever. Their power was being in one group skating together.

Surya even got a mention on Will & Grace!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A7bUjKRVQI

 

[Tinami Amori]

Surya even got a mention on Will & Grace!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A7bUjKRVQI

she was MAGIC... and her back flip is not illegal, it's an entry into another very difficult jump.. and just because other dainty darlings could not do it does not make it illegal.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVVy25e-vk

She is the only pro-skater that was/is worth watching (imo)..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jWO9ezUhXc

 

[MacMadame]

As for as A-list pro skaters go, I definitely put Surya as an A-Lister because I think if anybody followed televised skating events or caught a bit of it during the 1990s, they'd know of her or the fact that she was a black French woman who did back flips and thus had a unique style and look on the ice.

Now that's an argument I find much more convincing than "I like her skating."

 

[gkelly]

she was MAGIC... and her back flip is not illegal, it's an entry into another very difficult jump.. and just because other dainty darlings could not do it does not make it illegal.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mVVy25e-vk

No, the rule that was passed in 1976 and is still on the books makes it illegal in ISU short programs and freeskates, including the 1998 Olympics.

From SPECIAL REGULATIONS & TECHNICAL RULES SINGLE & PAIR SKATING and ICE DANCE 2016, Rule 610, Requirements to elements of Single and Pair Skating and Illegal Elements/Movements:

Illegal/Elements Movements are:
- somersault type jumps; [emphasis added]
- lifts with wrong holds;
- lifts with more than 3 ½ revolutions of the Man;
- spinning movements in which the Man swings the Lady around in the air while holding her hand or foot;
- twist-like or rotational movements during which the Lady is turned over with her skating foot leaving the ice;
- rotational movements with the grip of one of the partners on the leg, arm and neck of the other partner;
- jumps of one of the partners towards the other partner;
- lying and prolonged and/or stationary kneeling on both knees on the ice at any moment.

In "interpretive" or "artistic" types of programs at ISU-sanctioned pro-am type competitions like the Keri Lotion event that you link above, it may have been legal.

In purely pro competitions over which the ISU has no jurisdiction, anything goes.

 

[Vagabond]

I would love to see a movie called "I, Surya." Imagine all the scenes with mother-daughter interaction!

 

[Inessence]

Hm. I'd always heard Surya had to land her backflip on one leg to circumvent the rules, which she actually did.

 

[gkelly]

The rules say nothing about landing on one foot. They say very explicitly that "somersault type jumps" are illegal elements.

Surya did a backflip in eligible competition exactly once, which was her last eligible competition. Every other time she did a backflip it was in an exhibition or a pro-am artistic event or a pro event.

Commentators often noted how impressive it was that she could land on one foot, and sometimes put a salchow afterward which proved she was on a real edge. The commentators publicly opined that if the reason that backflips was illegal was because they were landed on two feet, then landing one on one foot should be legal. That doesn't mean it was legal in ISU competition. It wasn't.

But since most of the times she performed it were not in ISU competition, it was legal in those contexts, same as a two-foot-landed backflip would have been.

 

[Inessence]

The rules say nothing about landing on one foot. They say very explicitly that "somersault type jumps" are illegal elements.

Surya did a backflip in eligible competition exactly once, which was her last eligible competition. Every other time she did a backflip it was in an exhibition or a pro-am artistic event or a pro event.

Commentators often noted how impressive it was that she could land on one foot, and sometimes put a salchow afterward which proved she was on a real edge. The commentators publicly opined that if the reason that backflips was illegal was because they were landed on one foot, then landing on one foot should be legal. That doesn't mean it was legal in ISU competition. It wasn't.

But since most of the times she performed it were not in ISU competition, it was legal in those contexts, same as a two-foot-landed backflip would have been.

Thanks, that clarifies it then. I'm pretty sure I heard that in commentary because I haven't ever read the rule book.

 

[HSCluv]

I saw Surya skate at a show that was being recorded for television in Biloxi, MS in the fall of 1999, and I really don't remember a whole lot about the show other than there was some type of live music for some of it, but I still to this day remember how much better Surya's skating style looked in person. She did seem to improve her style as a pro, but this would have been pretty early on in her pro career.

 

[MacMadame]

She was injured at the end of her elite career. As a pro she seemed to really work on the other aspects of skating other than jumps and was really fun to watch. I saw her as an elite and as a pro in person and there was a definite difference in her skating skills the longer she was a Pro.

I wonder if she is still skating and what elements she can still do.

 

[VGThuy]

In the mid to late 90s, if I had paid to attend a pro event, when it came to the ladies, I would have felt that I knew I would have gotten my money's worth if Surya, Kristi, and Yuka were on the roster.

 

[allezfred]

You would have had a hatful of stars.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I loved Yuka but I got really tired of that program.