I, Tonya

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

A) because that would be the logical thing to do, and clearly these people were not logical.

B) my guess .... it was probably just siting around on a table piled full junk, and Tonya forgot all about it. She just happened to stumble across it (well after everyone knew she was involved) and thought 'I better toss this'.

C) what the others said above. People were using that restaurant owners dumpster (that SHE paid the bill for) as their own personal trash bin, probably to avoid paying for their own bill. When she saw bags dumped in it that were not her's (I believe she could tell by the bag that was used), she would go thru it to find some identifying info (magazines, junk mail, etc.). It was something she did whenever she saw bags that were not her's, it was not a 'that was the only time she did it' thing.

That they simply didn't think to burn or shred evidence, the film reinforces just how stupid Jeff & Shawn really were.

 

[berthesghost]

So then, what’s the consensus on the 89 Nats? Tonya wuzrobbed or nah?

lets see, bottle of vodka from Carlo aside, the judges probably picked the two they honestly felt were best. One medaled, the other finished top 10 and 3 spots were earned and the amount of people at usfs who regret their decision are probably zero.

 

[bardtoob]

That they simply didn't think to burn or shred evidence, the film reinforces just how stupid Jeff & Shawn really were.

Am I correct that Tonya's writing actually ended up in Massachusetts but Tonya never went there?

 

[Vagabond]

So then, what’s the consensus on the 89 Nats? Tonya wuzrobbed or nah?

According to Tonya, she did her best and that's all that counts.

 

[Yazmeen]

Regarding the restaurant dumpster: the trash bags Jeff and Tonya used were of a different type than the restaurant owner's and she just got fed up with people using her dumpster and getting charged for garbage that wasn't hers. She decided she was going to try and catch the dumper, and it turned into pure luck for the prosecution. http://www.koin.com/news/the-dockside-the-dumpster-and-tonya-harding_20180116022404289/918033349

 

[Tinami Amori]

I have couple of questions, on very superficial/secondary to skating issues related to Tonya. Because of this movie, i ended up watching many documentaries and event interview/footage about Tonya from the late 80's/early 90's. And here are my questions:

- Skating princess and Fur Coats. Was the issue of "need to wear a fur coat" a stated request by the officials, or was it assumed? and if "assumed" then to what extend? Did anyone in authority actually say "you better wear a fur coat or you don't have the right image"? how did the issue came about?

- Her equipment and costume fails are often blamed on lack of money. Yet at the same time in late 1980's she bought a collector's car Lincoln Continental with suicide doors, which is not only in very bad taste to own, but rather pricey. If she is buying a pimp-car, how can she not have money for skating necessities?

- She received a lot of help, so it is stated and recorded, in upgrading her image and looks (hair, makeup, clothing, PR, etc), all that was supposed to help her with "proper image", and yet in MANY videos during interviews, she takes her hand, in the middle of speaking to a journalist, and wipes her nose, and/or takes a piece of gum out of a wide open mouth with saliva following it and places it in her pocket or the hand of the coach.... So how valid are her claims that she was looked down upon for "being poor" and not having "proper trimmings which cost money" for an american ice-princess, when after getting a visual clean up, her mannerism was still not socially acceptable in any country?

 

[MacMadame]

IIRC the USFSA at the time had a 30-day period to appeal a disciplinary decision. Which I believe would have occurred after the Olympics began.

Her ban came months after the Olympics were over.

Toss it without tearing it, burning it (I mean, come on, we know Tonya would have had a cigarette lighter handy), or smearing it with food or whatever to make it un-readable. I seriously thought she would be smarter than that. Or that Jeff would be smarter than that.

Eh, you can be smart and still be lazy. Paper tends to get messed up in the garbage and definitely when it hits the landfill. I often throw stuff in the recycling bin that I should probably shred first. But I know if I wait to shred it, it is never leaving my house.

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

He said similar about Tiffany Chin's Death Drop at 1987 Nationals - he loves that move.



Movies "based on actual events," often delete characters that would confuse the general audience. By deleting reference to Midori, the film makers avoided having to explain, "First AMERICAN woman to land a triple axel," from "First woman to EVER land a triple axel," AND AND AND having to explain that Midori's was far better than Tonya's.

Yes. It is a film based on real life events, not a documentary. She also does say she was the first US woman to land it. Here's that bit from her self-introduction at the beginning of the movie. This is pasted from screenplay, so it might be worded slightly differently in the film, but I know she said either US woman or American woman.

What’s people’s impression of me?
That I’m a real person. That I
didn’ ever apologize for growin’ up
poor or bein’ a red neck which is
what I am. In a sport where the
friggin’ judges want you to be this
old-timey version of what a woman’s
supposed to be. Um. For bein’ the
first U.S. woman to land a triple
axel. So f*** ‘em.

 

[vesperholly]

So then, what’s the consensus on the 89 Nats? Tonya wuzrobbed or nah?

Nah.

 

[jenniferlyon]

How I, Tonya’s effects crew captured the film’s impossible skating shot

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/29/...le-axel-craig-gillespie-margot-robbie-skating

Harding was the first American to perform the move in a skating competition, and fewer than 10 women have ever pulled it off in competitive skating. And yet in I, Tonya, actor Margot Robbie appears to perform a triple axel — in extreme slow motion, with the camera clearly focusing on her face. It would have been easy for Gillespie to cheat around the move, as directors have so often done with stunt doubles and body doubles. Instead, he directs the scene in a way that challenges viewers to catch the digital cheat, giving them plenty of time to study the jump, and see why it’s so impressive and challenging for any athlete.

 

[Sasha is DIVINE]

According to Tonya, she did her best and that's all that counts.

And she thought she was great! (If she does say so herself!)

 

[Vagabond]

And she thought she was great! (If she does say so herself!)

Plus, in that video, Dick Button does say that the judges could go either way. If they could legitimately go either way, it's no robbery to rank one skater over the other.

 

[pixie cut]

How I, Tonya’s effects crew captured the film’s impossible skating shot

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/29/...le-axel-craig-gillespie-margot-robbie-skating

I swear for a split second they imposed Tonya Harding's face into that special effect.

 

[Inessence]

Her ban came months after the Olympics were over.

I meant that the USFSA could not just remove her from the team prior to the Olympics because she had the time left to appeal according to their bylaws. The USOC could have chucked her, but she threatened them with a lawsuit.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I have couple of questions, on very superficial/secondary to skating issues related to Tonya. Because of this movie, i ended up watching many documentaries and event interview/footage about Tonya from the late 80's/early 90's. And here are my questions:

- Skating princess and Fur Coats. Was the issue of "need to wear a fur coat" a stated request by the officials, or was it assumed? and if "assumed" then to what extend? Did anyone in authority actually say "you better wear a fur coat or you don't have the right image"? how did the issue came about?

- Her equipment and costume fails are often blamed on lack of money. Yet at the same time in late 1980's she bought a collector's car Lincoln Continental with suicide doors, which is not only in very bad taste to own, but rather pricey. If she is buying a pimp-car, how can she not have money for skating necessities?

- She received a lot of help, so it is stated and recorded, in upgrading her image and looks (hair, makeup, clothing, PR, etc), all that was supposed to help her with "proper image", and yet in MANY videos during interviews, she takes her hand, in the middle of speaking to a journalist, and wipes her nose, and/or takes a piece of gum out of a wide open mouth with saliva following it and places it in her pocket or the hand of the coach.... So how valid are her claims that she was looked down upon for "being poor" and not having "proper trimmings which cost money" for an american ice-princess, when after getting a visual clean up, her mannerism was still not socially acceptable in any country?

Don't forget she had four mouths to feed as well. Bing, Boom, Runt & Mama!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

And she thought she was great! (If she does say so herself!)

I wanted Holly Cook for the 1989 World Team. That CPR hand - tap she always did into the triple toe was priceless.

 

[Japanfan]

Skating princess and Fur Coats. Was the issue of "need to wear a fur coat" a stated request by the officials, or was it assumed? and if "assumed" then to what extend? Did anyone in authority actually say "you better wear a fur coat or you don't have the right image"? how did the issue came about?

I don't recall any comments about a fur coat in the film, and don't recall many skaters wearing fur coats either - the exception being Shae Lynn Bourne on one occasion. I remember that occasion because her coat looked hugely expensive and I tend to find furs distasteful.

I do think I've seen more coaches in furs though, and would guess that got started in Russia. Isn't TAT known for her furs?

I would think that in skating, as in general, furs are a sign of wealth and prestige, and that would be why coaches or skaters wear them.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I would think that in skating, as in general, furs are a sign of wealth and prestige, and that would be why coaches or skaters wear them.

Just like Juicy Couture? Have we forgotten that craze?

 

[jenniferlyon]

I don't recall any comments about a fur coat in the film, and don't recall many skaters wearing fur coats either - the exception being Shae Lynn Bourne on one occasion. I remember that occasion because her coat looked hugely expensive and I tend to find furs distasteful.

I do think I've seen more coaches in furs though, and would guess that got started in Russia. Isn't TAT known for her furs?

I would think that in skating, as in general, furs are a sign of wealth and prestige, and that would be why coaches or skaters wear them.

I remember the part about the fur coat in the film, but I don't recall seeing very many non-Russian skaters wearing furs in real life. These days, I wouldn't expect to see a young American skater in a fur at all. There's a lot of social stigma attached to wearing a fur.

 

[bardtoob]

I remember Debbie Thomas' mom saying they expected her to be in a fur coat so she looked the part of a rich skating mom. Before the PETA era, real fur was a status symbol among American women for decades, including being the theme to many television shows; I specifically remember an episode of "I love Lucy" where Lucy whined an entire half-hour about wanting a mink coat. Also, isn't the Disney cartoon "101 Dalmatians" about trying to making a fur coat?

Yeah, Russians often had fur out of necessity because it was still warmer and more water tight than anything synthetic. It was also widely available during the Soviet Era, so not much of a status symbol there.

 

[Inessence]

Just watched the movie, I think it was quite interesting. I always wondered why Tonya was so vilified before the whack and obviously her rough upbringing and behaviour influenced the response from the system. Even though it would appear there was documented evidence of both child abuse and domestic violence, society didn’t seem to care. Yet when implicated in the “whack” yet not criminally charged with anything people jumped on that band wagon. Obviously Nancy an innocent victim. But the lack of empathy for Tonya I think is sad. Not that she has helped herself, but considering what she went through not entirely surprising.

Reminds me of the quote “A villain is just a victim whose story hasn’t been told.”

 

[Yehudi]

Other people have mentioned that the movie ignores the fact that Tonya could still have skated pro, even after the whack. I think in 1998, she eventually did do one pro competition. The problem was, none of the other skaters wanted her around.

 

[berthesghost]

Furs: while I agree that many coaches and skating moms had used furs as status symbols back in the day, I don't remember that being what the film was talking about. In the 70s rabbit fur coats were a big fad for little girls. Tonya was poor so according to the film, she made her own. I recall it being about a little kid wanting the trendy thing the other kids had but being ashamed that she was too poor to have it. That's different than the coach/mom mink or sable coat issue, and it wasn't skating specific.

 

[Yazmeen]

Furs: while I agree that many coaches and skating moms had used furs as status symbols back in the day, I don't remember that being what the film was talking about. In the 70s rabbit fur coats were a big fad for little girls. Tonya was poor so according to the film, she made her own. I recall it being about a little kid wanting the trendy thing the other kids had but being ashamed that she was too poor to have it. That's different than the coach/mom mink or sable coat issue, and it wasn't skating specific.

But she didn't make the coat, she bought a rabbit fur jacket. The homemade coat was a creative embellishment.

 

[SmallFairy]

Norwegian TV gives the movie 5 out of 6 stars and praises the acting and the movie in general. Of course they mention "not much from Lillehammer though". And of course they have no clue about skating. Still haven't seen the movie myself. It premieres here on Friday.

 

[berthesghost]

Other people have mentioned that the movie ignores the fact that Tonya could still have skated pro, even after the whack. I think in 1998, she eventually did do one pro competition. The problem was, none of the other skaters wanted her around.

you may have meant this differently than it came out.

Rumor has it that many of the bigger name skaters did refused to share the pro ice with her. Considering all of the forced Nancy vs Oksana pro events that got hyped up but Fizzled out, I’m sure the promoters would have loved Tonya vs Nancy rematches. But, really. Who could blame Nancy for not wanting to help extend the fame of her attackers?

Anywho, the 98 event she did made a big deal of the skaters that did welcome her back and didn’t mind sharing the ice, but then Tonya beat up her bf with a hubcap and her agent dumped her. Once again, tonya’s personal life choices ruined her career, not the other skaters.

 

[Yehudi]

you may have meant this differently than it came out.

Rumor has it that many of the bigger name skaters did refused to share the pro ice with her

Actually that may be a fact. Fox aired a sit down where Tonya and Nancy came face to face and part of that special was an exhibition with a bunch of other skaters. They specifically said Tonya was skating in a separate location because the other skaters didn’t want to share the ice with her.

And I think even before 1994 she was gaining a reputation as being difficult.

 

[Inessence]

Actually that may be a fact. Fox aired a sit down where Tonya and Nancy came face to face and part of that special was an exhibition with a bunch of other skaters. They specifically said Tonya was skating in a separate location because the other skaters didn’t want to share the ice with her.

And I think even before 1994 she was gaining a reputation as being difficult.

Yes, in the “Women Of 94” special in 1998, the other skaters wouldn’t share the ice with her. Likely in solidarity and respect for Nancy. Tonya skated elsewhere but was still part of the show. In 1999 she did take part in an ESPN Pro competition, but as previously mentioned, the hubcap incident put the kibosh on those type of invites. She began boxing a couple years later.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Don't forget she had four mouths to feed as well. Bing, Boom, Runt & Mama!

i need translation .. what is "bing, boom, runt"... her pets? (i hope she did not have pets, i can only imagine them getting kicked and neglected)...

I don't recall any comments about a fur coat in the film, and don't recall many skaters wearing fur coats either - the exception being Shae Lynn Bourne on one occasion.

In the movie there is a segment where Tonya says she needed a fur coat as part of "ice princes" and then she and her father killed bunch of rabbits (very graphic scene of dead skinned rabbits on a table) and made some ugly rag out of pelts.

Yeah, Russians often had fur out of necessity because it was still warmer and more water tight than anything synthetic. It was also widely available during the Soviet Era, so not much of a status symbol there.

Not that it is too important, but "wearing fur coat" in soviet era in 70's and 80's has its own history. There were very few fashionable coats made out of expensive furs, if any sold in regular stores they were out of "rabbit" and cheaper furs and looked "provincial and cheap"; most women wore wool-fabrique coats with fur trimmings;
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/germanych/11053927/28781/28781_original.jpg

Russian coaches and skaters acquired fashionable expensive fur coats either abroad or in Moscow House of Models, by special order, and wore them in order "to look good in the West" because they thought in the west it meant something.

Wearing cheap fur, or fancy flashy fur (or any flashy outerwear) in soviet times in 70's/80's was also considered (for many reasons, in respectable circles of people) to be "in bad taste". The "classy" winter coat was and still is: earth-tone tailored coat/jacket out of shearling, something like this..
https://images.ua.prom.st/282003455_w0_h0_7c5a9376.jpg
https://www.kyrtkirivaldi.ru/thumb/...a_zhenskaya_iz_ovchiny_rm-7044-v_vid_7905.jpg
why so, given russia has lots of fur? because it is not proper while out in public to "show off to the nameless crowd, to every dick and harry"; instead one wears plane outwear, but in a private setting with your own people, wears the finer stuff.

(and since i accidentally came up with this foto)... this is what we girls wore to the skating practices, when we were starting out like Tonya, on an outdoor rink and without any sports-wear stores which sell pretty pink costumes.... https://avatars.mds.yandex.net/get-...4bc692a445_5a6cce4c581669832e0b6501/scale_600

 

[bardtoob]

(and since i accidentally came up with this foto)... this is what we girls wore to the skating practices, when we were starting out like Tonya, on an outdoor rink and without any sports-wear stores which sell pretty pink costumes.... https://avatars.mds.yandex.net/get-...4bc692a445_5a6cce4c581669832e0b6501/scale_600

Very cute! No exactly great for training But very cute!

why so, given russia has lots of fur? because it is not proper while out in public to "show off to the nameless crowd, to every dick and harry"; instead one wears plane outwear, but in a private setting with your own people, wears the finer stuff.

It must feel freeing to not have to second guess if you look Gulag Chic enough.