I, Tonya

Finally saw the movie. Loved it. Allison Janney KILLED it! Her performance alone is worth the price of attendance and if you are skating fan, you must! Yes, yes, they made Tonya looked better than she did in reality but it's an art form, same as The Social Network.
 
I was just thinking . . . Would it have been so bad if Tonya had turned professional after the 1992 Olympics as the 1991 National Champion and 1991 World Silver Medalist. I bet she would have done financially well, could have gotten away from Jeff, and could have reinstated in 1994.

Too bad she was fixated on the Olympic Gold Medal instead of considering that turning professional would have gotten her away from her life in Oregon.

ETA:

Does anybody know if Tonya was in fact offered professional opportunities post the 1992 Olympics?
 
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I was just thinking . . . Would it have been so bad if Tonya had turned professional after the 1992 Olympics as the 1991 National Champion and 1991 World Silver Medalist. I bet she would have done financially well, could have gotten away from Jeff, and could have reinstated in 1994.

Too bad she was fixated on the Olympic Gold Medal instead of considering that turning professional would have gotten her away from her life in Oregon.

ETA:

Does anybody know if Tonya was in fact offered professional opportunities post the 1992 Olympics?
I think only Tonya, her coaches, and her agent would know that one. She did do the 92 coi. I'm pretty sure she could of got a job with ice capades after coi ended that year. I do recall commentators being surprised Surya didn't turn pro as well. There were skaters that did try to reinstate that were denied due to usfsa losing the paperwork (Rory Flack was one of them).

Looking back, I wish she would have turned pro in 92- she would at least still have a skating career. Kerrigan initially wanted to go pro but the usfsa , her agent, and sponsors pressured her to stay in for 94. Dick Button did like Tonya so I'm sure she would of got invited to a couple of world pro events.
 
Lets do Tonya!

Tonya Tonya bo-bonya
Banana fanna fo-fonya
Fee, fy, mo-monya.
Tonya!

Lets do Nancy!

Nancy Nancy bo-bancy
Banana fanna fo-fancy
Fee, fy, mo-mancy.
Nancy!

Lets do Oksana!

Oksana Oksana bo-boksana
Banana fanna fo-foksana
Fee, fy, mo-moksana.
Oksana!

Lets do Surya!

Surya Surya bo-burya
Banana fanna fo-furya
Fee, fy, mo-murya.
Surya!

Lets do Lu!

Lu Lu bo-bu
Banana fanna fo-fu
Fee, fy, mo-mu.
Lu!
 
OK, so I'm not crazy. They had a profile on Michelle that aired a week after 1993 Nationals, maybe during the exhibition?
https://youtu.be/sXz688BCdF8

Off topic, but sad to see sportscaster John Saunders in the clip as he passed away way too young last year.

Kudos to ABC on securing some notable sports broadcasting talent during those years of covering US Nationals.
 
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http://web.icenetwork.com/fans/icetalk

Ep. 55: 'I, Tonya' with Paul Wylie and Christine Brennan
To coincide with the release of the film 'I, Tonya,' we talked to two people with intimate knowledge of the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan affair: Paul Wylie, a contemporary of Harding and Kerrigan who also worked as a radio commentator at the 1994 Olympic Winter Games, and journalist Christine Brennan, who covered the two skaters throughout their careers.
 
http://web.icenetwork.com/fans/icetalk

Ep. 55: 'I, Tonya' with Paul Wylie and Christine Brennan
To coincide with the release of the film 'I, Tonya,' we talked to two people with intimate knowledge of the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan affair: Paul Wylie, a contemporary of Harding and Kerrigan who also worked as a radio commentator at the 1994 Olympic Winter Games, and journalist Christine Brennan, who covered the two skaters throughout their careers.

I am bracing myself that Brennan's contribution will alternate between backhanded snark and outright bashing.
 
I am bracing myself that Brennan's contribution will alternate between backhanded snark and outright bashing.
I don't care for Brennan although I do have the first book. She did bash Tonya for the mistake on the combo in the short at Lillehamer. Other ladies made worse mistakes and placed higher.
Tonya did do one pro completion- the espn pros where she was 2nd to Bonaly. Bonaly did do harder technical content so I am ok with that one. Tonya did 2axel, 3 toe, 3 sal, and single axel in the free, with good spins, and a lot of speed and power. Rory Flack (the other female skater that could do backflips ) was 3rd, Tonia K 4th, and Liz Manley 5th ( all of Liz's triples were gone at this point, so only doubles). Tonya missed the 3loop in the short , and didn't try it in the long.
Paul did mention that on the coi tour, Jeff and Tonya would sit up front by themselves, and Jeff wouldn't let Tonya talk to anyone. He did mention the good qualities of her skating as well as the rough edges. He agrees with the lifetime ban. I don't agree with the lifetime ban- a one year suspension would of been sufficient in my eyes because I don't believe she knew until after. I did see a picture of that check (it was in 94 nationals picture). It was for 10,000, and if Dianne and Erika (coach and choregrapher ) got $6,500, how did Jeff manage to give $6,500 to Stant? I doubt Tonya had extra money in her checking account, and Jeff was not working at the time. Tonya was a tomboy, and did things her way on the ice but usually let other people handle the finances.
 
I recommend just to listen to Paul and ignore Christine's interview, as she hadn't yet seen the movie. Listen instead to her on The Skating Lesson interview that she gave more recently after watching I, Tonya. After giving her full review, she is still saying much of the same thing she does here.
 
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http://web.icenetwork.com/fans/icetalk

Ep. 55: 'I, Tonya' with Paul Wylie and Christine Brennan
To coincide with the release of the film 'I, Tonya,' we talked to two people with intimate knowledge of the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan affair: Paul Wylie, a contemporary of Harding and Kerrigan who also worked as a radio commentator at the 1994 Olympic Winter Games, and journalist Christine Brennan, who covered the two skaters throughout their careers.

I am bracing myself that Brennan's contribution will alternate between backhanded snark and outright bashing.

Brennan was relatively restrained, I thought.

That comment from Paul about Jeff being controlling while on tour is insightful. Tonya was much more social with other skaters before Jeff, apparently.

Jeff's behavior very much reminds me of a boyfriend who's girlfriend has gone off to college without him, and when he visits he is jealous of everyone and scared to death of losing his girlfriend. This same behavior also reminds me of when abusive spouses know that it is only the lies he is telling that is keeping her from leaving for what is surely a better life for her without him.
 
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Had to watch this before Nationals. It’s great and actually really quite funny. Which is amazing considering how much domestic violence is in this movie. (Also, screw Sebastian Stan and his puppy dog eyes for making me feel bad for an effed up dude.)

But I suppose the whole situation in real life was already one big WTF involving a whole slew of emotionally immature, violent dolts with delusions of fame and importance. That’s certainly how the movie played it. You feel bad for her but it’s also pretty clear that Tonya could have done things differently, reacted differently. And just...didn’t.

Allison Janney made me think of the real-life horrific skating parents out there that we know of. And Margot Robbie’s desperation reminded me of the bravery of Julia Lipnitskaia and Gracie Gold, who basically quit just before the Olympics. It’s immensely hard to do when it’s all you know. But unfortunately Tonya couldn’t give it up, and was forcibly removed and had to figure out something else. You always need something else. Tonya’s upbringing certainly didn’t seem to foster that.
 
Had to watch this before Nationals. It’s great and actually really quite funny. Which is amazing considering how much domestic violence is in this movie. (Also, screw Sebastian Stan and his puppy dog eyes for making me feel bad for an effed up dude.)

But I suppose the whole situation in real life was already one big WTF involving a whole slew of emotionally immature, violent dolts with delusions of fame and importance. That’s certainly how the movie played it. You feel bad for her but it’s also pretty clear that Tonya could have done things differently, reacted differently. And just...didn’t.

Allison Janney made me think of the real-life horrific skating parents out there that we know of. And Margot Robbie’s desperation reminded me of the bravery of Julia Lipnitskaia and Gracie Gold, who basically quit just before the Olympics. It’s immensely hard to do when it’s all you know. But unfortunately Tonya couldn’t give it up, and was forcibly removed and had to figure out something else. You always need something else. Tonya’s upbringing certainly didn’t seem to foster that.
Tonya dropped out of high school at 15 because her high school wasn't willing to work with her regarding the skating ( competitions, practices). She did later go on to get her GED in 89. There weren't the online options back then we have now. Tonia K's original high school wasn't willing to work with her either, but Tonia's parents made the effort to find a high school that would and sent her there.
LaVona did work to support Tonya's skating, but was abusive. Diane didn't report the abuse because of fears that a foster family might not have let her continue skating. Did Diane have any world-class skaters after Tonya? That situation did play out with a junior skater named Michelle Cho except the abuse was reported, Cho was placed with a different family, and never skated again. There is a documentary called sharp edges made by Tonya's friend that covers Tonya at 15 going to her first nationals that will be rereleased soon as well.
 
Diane didn't report the abuse because of fears that a foster family might not have let her continue skating. Did Diane have any world-class skaters after Tonya? That situation did play out with a junior skater named Michelle Cho except the abuse was reported, Cho was placed with a different family, and never skated again.
That’s another thing that struck me about the movie, that Diane was such a non-entity as Tonya’s support system. She was almost quietly evil on her own, for only using Tonya for her own ends. She was just more genteel about it than LaVona was.

The movie plays Jeff as if he really loved Tonya, but couldn’t get over his own toxic masculinity to properly support her. LaVona actually comes off the bigger antagonist, even if Jeff was by far more physically dangerous to Tonya. LaVona and Diane didn’t seem to love Tonya at all.
 
Stupid question, but did Tonya go through the junior ranks in the U.S.? I don't see any results for any international junior competitions, so I assume she did not, but I don't see any results for any domestic junior competitions either.
 
Brennan was relatively restrained, I thought.

Nick McCarvel simply didn't have enough time during the interview to prod Christine a little more on her personal take (re: Tonya). Nick was hoping to get a little more insight as to those years Tonya was supposedly "robbed" (those Nationals during the Calgary Olympic cycle), but it appears Christine herself didn't cover US Nationals until 1991.
 
Stupid question, but did Tonya go through the junior ranks in the U.S.? I don't see any results for any international junior competitions, so I assume she did not, but I don't see any results for any domestic junior competitions either.
I think Tonya competed at one junior nationals ( I don't remember the placement) but didn't medal.
 
That’s another thing that struck me about the movie, that Diane was such a non-entity as Tonya’s support system. She was almost quietly evil on her own, for only using Tonya for her own ends. She was just more genteel about it than LaVona was.

The movie plays Jeff as if he really loved Tonya, but couldn’t get over his own toxic masculinity to properly support her. LaVona actually comes off the bigger antagonist, even if Jeff was by far more physically dangerous to Tonya. LaVona and Diane didn’t seem to love Tonya at all.
I think Diane did love Tonya, but loved coaching a world class skater more. She did provide financial support when needed. Tonya does mention a half sister in her book that cps did remove from LaVona's home. After the real LaVona was interviewed by Inside Edition, one of the comments was from a guy claiming to be LaVona's son. He said LaVona basically signed her rights away to his brother and him so she could concentrate on Tonya's career. LaVona had 5 kids. The brother that tried to sexually abuse Tonya passed away a long time ago.
 
Diane did release Tonya to Dody Teachman when she could no longer get the best out of her. That seemed pretty selfless to me since Diane basically funded and supported her skating talent for 15-16 years.
 
One thing I have been curious about: Just how underscored was Tonya Harding in her career?

I mean, compared with many other skaters who have complained about being underscored, or skaters for whom fans did the complaining, where does Harding fall in the list of skaters throughout history who appeared to be consistently low-balled, real or perceived?
 
Not sure if this has been shared here yet... Rolonda Watts' 1994 interview with Tonya Harding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95rjRhjESUg

About halfway through the hour long interview, the video freezes but the audio's fine throughout.

I finally got a chance to watch this when I couldn't sleep last night. Tonya actually comes across very well in this interview, about the best I've seen her. She is pleasant, not defensive, has a good rapport with Rolonda, and appears to take responsibility for some of her actions. The attack on Kerrigan isn't discussed directly and it's not exactly a hard-hitting interview, but it's one of the few times (if not the only time) I've seen her say that she wishes she would have practiced more leading up to the 1992 Olympics for example. It goes to show that if she could have packaged that, there was something to work with there.

I also watched the TV movie from 1994 on YouTube. I forgot how good that was. It was almost a parody of a TV movie, with the scene of the network execs planning the movie that was being shown. But they did an impressive job. Even covered the two different sides of Jeff's story vs Tonya's. It's too bad the audio is wrecked for about 15 min early on in the YouTube video but it was still a good use of my time to watch it.

One thing I have been curious about: Just how underscored was Tonya Harding in her career?

I mean, compared with many other skaters who have complained about being underscored, or skaters for whom fans did the complaining, where does Harding fall in the list of skaters throughout history who appeared to be consistently low-balled, real or perceived?

The one time I can think of when Tonya was blatantly robbed is the 1987 NHK that bardtoob posted earlier in the thread, but that was more about holding up Witt than anything, as Ito was also robbed badly. So it was more of a "wait your turn" than personal against Harding. Some other occasions of questionable judging have been discussed recently in this thread - 1989 Nationals (some people feel this is highway robbery, some think it could have gone either way), 1993 Nationals (messy event with mixed ordinals), maybe 1993 NHK (who knows, we only have Tonya's opinion on this one).

I'm trying to think if there are other ones...maybe 1992 Olympics? She was 6th in the SP having fallen on a triple axel behind Ito who fell on a triple lutz. You could maybe argue she should have beat Kerrigan in the free program, although neither of them had very good free programs. I feel like when you consider both programs together, the podium ended up in the right place.

All of this is a long winded way of saying that, 1987 NHK aside, I feel like when Tonya nailed a skate, she got the marks. However, when she didn't skate well, she probably didn't get the benefit of the doubt and generally didn't win close calls.
 
My PR friend is working the red carpet at the Globes next Sunday (same day as Mens and dance final)? He is asking me if I want to work it with him.

He has to walk down the red carpet.... Frances McDormand, Annette Bening, James Franco and Alison Janney!!!!! Should I go???? (PS Ive done this before with him for the Emmys and Daytime Emmy awards before.)

The Beverly Hills Hilton is just down SM Blvd for me.

I also wouldn't mind escorting Franco either.

I should also be able to see Margot and Laurie Metcalfe.
 

Im thinking I will....

Pros:

1. Walking Alison Janney
2. Seeing myself in paparazzi shots next to the actors I am walking
3. Seeing all the celebs
4. Getting to watch the show from inside the ballroom
5. Going into the mens room right after I see some of my favorite stars go in. LOL (As you all know, I have 0% shame.)

Cons:

1. Then I miss mens and dance final Live :(
 

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