I, Tonya

[Skaterbob]

Tonya looks very attractive here and was quite well-spoken.

I never understand why people said Tonya was so bad looking and that Robbie hahahhahahahahha she is playing her. Tonya was actually pretty cute IMO.

 

[bardtoob]

I think they were a bit harsh on Tonya at 90 nationals ( she was 2nd after the short, got the flu or something before the long and it made her a bit sluggish in the free, but they didn't have to drop her all the way down to 7th overall (which I think was the lowest she ever placed at a national). The judges knew she was sick. I didn't find anything offensive about that pink dress ( it was one of her more conservative costumes actually).

I think 1990 Nationals was fair to Tonya. Tonya did, in fact, skate well in the CF and SP but did poorly in the LP.

Tonya was expected to win 1990 Nationals after defeating Trenary at 1989 Skate America, but she did not deliver. I know there was a legitimate reason, but still she missed her moment. IMO winning 1990 Nationals would have been more prestigious than winning 1991 Nationals since it did include CF. What made 1991 Nationals exceptional was Tonya's content, not the competition format. Winning 1990 Nationals would have also muted the narrative that Tonya was not proficient in figures when she was reasonably good although not a specialist.

 

[Frau Muller]

Who has seen the movie? I saw it on Sunday in Washington DC. It is an excellent film, even for a jaded fs fan who lived through the events of 1994. My only qualm is that some interesting details were left out or not dramatized, such as the entire NHK 1993 episode, but the filmmakers had to choose what to show in two hours. I predict Oscar nominations for the actresses playing Tonya and Lavone...but, to me, the actor playing the big bodyguard (self-styled secret agent man, Shawn Eckhardt) takes the cake. He had many audience members laughing out loud throughout the movie.

 

[GloriaW]

Who has seen the movie? I saw it on Sunday in Washington DC. It is an excellent film, even for a jaded fs fan who lived through the events of 1994. My only qualm is that some interesting details were left out or not dramatized, such as the entire NHK 1993 episode, but the filmmakers had to choose what to show in two hours. I predict Oscar nominations for the actresses playing Tonya and Lavone...but, to me, the actor playing the big bodyguard (self-styled secret agent man, Shawn Eckhardt) takes the cake. He had many audience members laughing out loud throughout the movie.

Sorry, do tell/remind, what was the "2013 NHK episode"?

 

[cmk]

Sorry, do tell/remind, what was the "2013 NHK episode"?

After the death threat at 93 regionals, Tonya was told if she wanted to go to Nationals she would either have to do sectionals and place in top 4, or NHK in Japan without a placement requirement. NHK also paid out a little bit of prize money for medalists (not as much as it does today). Tonya chose nhk and ended up skating 1st in the short. There are various reports of what happened with her combo but no one will upload her 93 nhk short to youtube- she was either clean, made some kind of error short of a fall, or she fell. Surya fell on her combo as well put still placed first. Tonya must of skated a clean free program because she pulled up 3 spots to 4th behind Surya ( who probably had the best freeskate of her career up to that point there), Chen Lu, and Sato (who was 3rd in both portions of the event, Tonya had harder technical content in the free but couldn't overcome Sato's home field advantage). After she returned home, Rosenberg decided he didn't want to represent her anymore and Jeff took over as agent/manager/moocher. She apparently called Jeff after the nhk short complaining about the scoring. Jeff than took matter into his own hands and enlisted idiot friend Shawn. I truly do believe that Tonya didn't know in advance of 94 nationals (she skated too well), but did fail to turn in the live-in ex hubby who was known to have physical abused her. Jeff was also convicted at least twice of domestic violence vs 2nd wife ( who later died after jumping out of window during a stay at drug rehab, at which point Jeff got their kids back).
Someone did point out that the 5th and 6th place finishers- Bobek and Kwan didn't have to do a regional which made it a bit unfair that they trued to make former national champ/world medalist/Olympian Tonya do one. I am going to assume that Bobek must of had an international that conflicted with her regionals, and Kwan got the bye as a result of winning Jr worlds .

 

[meggonzo]

Here are my thoughts on it. I admit directly they are a conspiracy theory

I agree that it was about holding up Trenary. I don't have a problem with Kristi winning the long at 89 Nationals since she did 2 triple lutzes and a triple flip, and Tonya 2-footed her lutz and doubled the flip. Tonya should have beat Jill in the long though. Jill could really only be counted on for 3 clean triples.

I'm also really glad they don't have the interviews anymore while they are still getting their scores!

 

[Vagabond]

Tonya must of skated a clean free program because she pulled up 3 spots to 4th behind Surya ( who probably had the best freeskate of her career up to that point there), Chen Lu, and Sato (who was 3rd in both portions of the event, Tonya had harder technical content in the free but couldn't overcome Sato's home field advantage).

Sato was not third in the SP. Go back just a few days in this thread, or look the event up on Wikipedia, and you will see where she placed.

 

[Frau Muller]

Sorry, do tell/remind, what was the "2013 NHK episode"?

It was (& I wrote) 1993 NHK, not 2013. cmk and others answered. It’s a shame that Tonya’s full autumn run-up to 1994 Nationals and Olympics was not depicted in the film.

I also find it curious that the 1993 NHK Trophy is the only one of the major autumn fs events to not be on YouTube. I have in my collection practically all fs events televised since 1980 but not the 1993 NHK. Grrr. It seems to have been the great Sekret event of the 1993/94 season.

 

[Erin]

Oh thoughts on when Tonya was judged unfairly:

1989 Nationals - this is a tough one. I think the judges got carried away by the quantity of Kristi's jumps over some of the quality of Tonya's jumps. It was also when I would say some of the decline in Tonya's programs and stroking quality began, say compared to 1987 NHK where she was smoother and more refined. I can see a case for Tonya winning the free skate or for beating Jill but I can also see why she placed where she did. I did the math on the factored placements and I don't think that beating Jill in the free skate would have helped her beat Kristi overall, she would have had to beat Kristi in the free skate. The real shame here was the ISU's named skater rule back in the 80s where the skater that earned the third spot was the one who got to take it, in this case Debi Thomas, and since she wasn't skating, the US could only send two. It was very fortunate that rule was gone only two years later. But every team was stuck with these rules. Not a conspiracy against Tonya.

1990 Nationals: should she have been higher than 7th? Maybe. On the world team. Not at all, her free skate was a disaster and she definitely deserved to drop off the podium.

1993 Nationals: this one I thought she definitely deserved the benefit of the doubt over Kwiatkowski (not Ervin who was one of the only people to skate well). Some of the judges also agreed with me. In fact, when Kwiatkowski's marks came up, she was at that point second in the free and overall, behind Harding, with Ervin and Kerrigan still to skate. Ervin's marks resulted in a flip flop of the result of Kwiatkowski and Harding, which is how Harding ended up 4th and off the world team. People like Christine Brennan came up with stupid theories like the judges rewarding the "good girls" Ervin and Kwiatkowski and punishing the "bad girls" Bobek and Harding. But the reality is that the ordinals are all over the place and I don't see how there could be any conspiracy theory there. Tonya was very unlucky that that the ordinal flip went against her but the reality is that some judges had her second and some had her fourth and fifth, which was the case for everyone in that pile. This is a case where IJS would have helped her out because her SP lead probably would have saved her world team spot (and she wouldn't have had to worry about ordinals flipping results around). Anyway, I think she should have been on the World team over Kwiatkowski, not sure what the judges that put Kwiatkowski ahead were really thinking (maybe just blinded by a triple lutz) but I don't think the deck was stacked against Harding in this case either.

 

[cmk]

Oh thoughts on when Tonya was judged unfairly:

1989 Nationals - this is a tough one. I think the judges got carried away by the quantity of Kristi's jumps over some of the quality of Tonya's jumps. It was also when I would say some of the decline in Tonya's programs and stroking quality began, say compared to 1987 NHK where she was smoother and more refined. I can see a case for Tonya winning the free skate or for beating Jill but I can also see why she placed where she did. I did the math on the factored placements and I don't think that beating Jill in the free skate would have helped her beat Kristi overall, she would have had to beat Kristi in the free skate. The real shame here was the ISU's named skater rule back in the 80s where the skater that earned the third spot was the one who got to take it, in this case Debi Thomas, and since she wasn't skating, the US could only send two. It was very fortunate that rule was gone only two years later. But every team was stuck with these rules. Not a conspiracy against Tonya.

1990 Nationals: should she have been higher than 7th? Maybe. On the world team. Not at all, her free skate was a disaster and she definitely deserved to drop off the podium.

1993 Nationals: this one I thought she definitely deserved the benefit of the doubt over Kwiatkowski (not Ervin who was one of the only people to skate well). Some of the judges also agreed with me. In fact, when Kwiatkowski's marks came up, she was at that point second in the free and overall, behind Harding, with Ervin and Kerrigan still to skate. Ervin's marks resulted in a flip flop of the result of Kwiatkowski and Harding, which is how Harding ended up 4th and off the world team. People like Christine Brennan came up with stupid theories like the judges rewarding the "good girls" Ervin and Kwiatkowski and punishing the "bad girls" Bobek and Harding. But the reality is that the ordinals are all over the place and I don't see how there could be any conspiracy theory there. Tonya was very unlucky that that the ordinal flip went against her but the reality is that some judges had her second and some had her fourth and fifth, which was the case for everyone in that pile. This is a case where IJS would have helped her out because her SP lead probably would have saved her world team spot (and she wouldn't have had to worry about ordinals flipping results around). Anyway, I think she should have been on the World team over Kwiatkowski, not sure what the judges that put Kwiatkowski ahead were really thinking (maybe just blinded by a triple lutz) but I don't think the deck was stacked against Harding in this case either.

I admit Ervin did skate well. I just don't think she was technically competitive at the world level with her hardest jump being the 3 loop (she didn't have the 3 lutz or 3 flip in her repetitoire). I would of placed Tonya ahead of Lisa based on Tonya's ability to land 6 different type of triple jumps vs Lisa's 3. Tonya should of beat Tonia K (who I do like but she didn't really develop into a world level skater until later ( 96-98). Tonia K probably should of been given the benefit of the doubt over Bobek in 98 but Tonia K missed the 3sal, and Bobek skated well in the free to get the bronze and the spot on the Olympic team. There was also the fact the Campbells soup commercial at the time featured Michelle, Tara, and Nicole at the time as well.

 

[Vagabond]

@cmk
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/should-have-or-should-of

 

[slipchuk]

Tonya had not done anything close to a 6 triple program in 93. She in fact had not done one single program with more than 3 triples, and many of her skates she made only 1 or 2, ala Nationals. So sending her or saying she deserved to be placed over Ervin who skated well that night just on her ability to do 6 triples which was never in evidence at any point that year is stupid rational. I do agree she probably should have been sent over Tonia, but the way Tonya was skating that year she would done awful at worlds, very unlikely even made the top 10 given how well almost all the the women skated at worlds that year, so it really doesnt matter. If that sounds harsh to anyone name me a single skate she did all that year that would have even beaten the long programs of say Preston, Szewcenko or even Kulovana at those worlds, there isnt one. Her only chance to be top 10 overall would probably be to have a clean short that placed her somewhere from 3rd to 6th, and hope that held her up to a higher overall placing, just as Kerrigan came top 5 despite her 9th placed 2 triple long program only due to winning the short. Atleast she would have made it out of the Q round, no matter how much she bombed, she would be put out of that part on reputation alone, and atleast spared that embarassment that Tonia had.

Regarding 89 Nationals Tonya hands down should have been sent over Kristi. People keep harping on Jill but dont be idiots, Jill was always going that year like it or not, particularly with figures. Kristi was a little girl with horrible compulsory figures, weak and small jumps, and weak artistry, she was never going to be competitive at the World level despite her consistency and ability to land a lot of jumps already. Hence why at worlds she did a triple lutz combo in the short and was still placed behind all of Ito, Leistner, Trenary, and even Lebedeva doing only triple toe combos, and in the long landed many more jumps than anyone but Ito, and nearly everyone else melted down, and was still only 4th in that phase. I would have placed Tonya over Kristi in the long program at those Nationals no problem, I probably would have given Tonya 5.9 technical, 5.8 presentation and Kristi 5.6 technical, 5.6 presentation or something. Plus even if there is a case for Kristi beating Tonya in the long program she never should have beaten her in the short where both were clean with a triple lutz-double toe, so it doesnt matter. Sending Kristi was nothing more than that she was the USFSA little golden princess already, anything who thinks otherwise is utterly delusional, just as anything who is suggest Jill who I am not a fan of ever could have or would have been left off the team is equally utterly delusional.

 

[Seerek]

To be fair, Jill didn't use Conga until the 1989/90 season for her free skate.

The music does sound similar, but in fact, Conga dates back to Jill's 1987 short program.

1990 used music from the soundtrack from the movie Salsa.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The music does sound similar, but in fact, Conga dates back to Jill's 1987 short program.

1990 used music from the soundtrack from the movie Salsa.

For what it's worth, Holly was using elements of the same music Jill skated, for her junior world free skate in 1987 (held in late 1986).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91NYPmpAWDM

A lot of the skaters from around the world chose music that was popular at the time, more than choosing music other skaters were using.

 

[bardtoob]

Regarding 89 Nationals Tonya hands down should have been sent over Kristi. People keep harping on Jill but dont be idiots, Jill was always going that year like it or not, particularly with figures. Kristi was a little girl with horrible compulsory figures, weak and small jumps, and weak artistry, she was never going to be competitive at the World level despite her consistency and ability to land a lot of jumps already.

It is rare that people harp on Jill because:

1) The narrative has always been "Kristi Vs Tonya" or "Kristi was the judges' pet"

2) Jill was, in fact, a legitimate contender for the World Championship because she had the right combination of CF and freeskating for the competition format of the time

What is new is the idea that Tonya was a possible spoiler for Jill.

It is important to note that Jill had nothing to do with politics. Jill was out there doing her best to both do great figures and land 5 triples while her coach, Carlo Fassi, was handling the politics.

I, personally, now think Jill is much maligned ONLY BECAUSE THE COMPETITION FORMAT CHANGED. Jill was actually very good, and would have been a fine Olympic medalist had figures remained part of the competition until 1992. Currently, it takes about 10 years to develop a World-Class skater and in 1990 it took 15 years, so the ISU was insane to change the rules with less than 4 years notice.

 

[caseyedwards]

In the very least it gives us a clear record of what each skater did and how they were scored so that when we argue about it 15 years from now we have a place to start with.

It’s getting harder and harder to find many protocols! Maybe in 15 years lots will be gone!

 

[Yazmeen]

There is a basic fact about Tonya's skating during the years she was most competitive for potential World or Olympic medals (1990 to 1994): Tonya was rewarded when she landed the triple axel. Unfortunately, The triple axel disappeared after 1991. Despite the previously landed ones, she was never able to successfully perform the triple axel in competition after 1991. Her competitive results then went on a downhill slide after that, not helped by programs in which she didn't complete many triple jumps. Tonya was an athletic, power skater with big jumps. When her jumps failed her, there wasn't much more there compared to other skaters.

There seems to be almost a desperation among a few here to prove that she skated a clean short program at 1993 NHK to validate that she was lowballed in the end, as if that's an excuse for what happened later in the season. While we don't know exactly what happened, it's at least been recorded that she either fell or made a serious mistake in her short. And even if those who placed above her also made mistakes, she was skating against women who were 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the previous Worlds that she didn't qualify for after a poor freeskate at US Nationals where she completed only 2 triple jumps in a lackluster program (and yes, I know, here are the excuses, Tonya had a cold, Nancy was the living definition of mediocrity at those Nationals, ad nauseum, etc.).

Watch Tonya's FS at 1991 Nationals, and then again in 1993. Light years of difference between the two programs. And this cannot just be trumped up as the "Association" being against her.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

It is rare that people harp on Jill because:

1) The narrative has always been "Kristi Vs Tonya" or "Kristi was the judges pet"

2) Jill was, in fact, a legitimate contender for the World Championship because she had the right combination of CF and freeskating for the competition format of the time

What is new is the idea that Tonya was a possible spoiler for Jill.

It is important to note that Jill had nothing to do with politics. Jill was out there doing her best to both do great figures and land 5 triples while her coach, Carlo Fassi, was handling the politics.

Jill must have sensed heading into the 1989 World Championships, she would have to be perfect.
(Ito may not have had strong figures, but if she skated well, Midori would likely win both the short and the long.)

There were three strikes against Trenary, however.

Firstly, Claudia Leistner beat Jill in figures, and secondly, where in previous seasons she included a triple flip as her jump combination in the short, she only did a triple toe loop / double toe loop. To be fair, the year before Ito did a double loop / triple loop, but in Paris, Midori did a double toe loop / triple toe loop.

Finally, Jill had reportedly pulled a groin muscle prior to the World Championships. On top of feeling immense pressure, she really struggled through her free skate, landing only two clean triples (and stepping out of a third) to Ito's seven.

 

[bardtoob]

... she really struggled through her free skate, landing only two clean triples (and stepping out of a third) to Ito's seven.

Well, I can forgive Jill for that since she had to hear 6.0s under technical merit, which she probably had never heard in her life, then go out and try to compete. I'm certain it felt absurd.

 

[Erin]

I would of placed Tonya ahead of Lisa based on Tonya's ability to land 6 different type of triple jumps vs Lisa's 3.

Good thing you weren't a judge then, as judges aren't supposed to judge based on the skater's potential, but based on what they actually put on the ice that day. That said, on rewatching, there is a decent case for Tonya. If we are looking just at jumps, Tonya put on the ice that day was two clean triples (sal and flip) plus stood up on a loop with a step out to Lisa's three (two toes and a sal) plus stood up on a loop with a step out. Spins and basic skating go to Tonya by a little bit, but not by as much as you might think for a world class skater over someone who went to Jr. Worlds that year. I think where Lisa got the marks with most judges was the way she sold the program and the energy she brought to the arena after so many error-filled programs. And actually even if Ervin had finished 2nd in the free program and Harding 3rd, Harding's short would have kept her 2nd overall.

As I said above, the real perplexing judging was Kwiakowski over Harding (or even Bobek). Tonia K also only landed two triples (lutz and toe) plus a triple toe with a hand down. She also ended her program with a mistake on a double axel and weak basic skating without the joy and sell that Ervin had to make up for it. I thought she was a clear 5th.

 

[cmk]

Tonya started the 92/93 out of shape that led to rumors of a possible pregnancy at Skate Canada. (She wasn't, Dodie ,her coach, might have been. She was only attempting up to loop at Skate Canada. At the pro-am a few weeks later, she had lost some of the weight and was attempting 3flip again. 93 Nationals , she landed the 3lutz combo in the short, and 3 flip, 3 sal, stood up on 3 loop with step out. She had lost the excess weight by 93 nationals, and did in fact have a cold. As she got older, the asthma got worse ( the smoking didn't help). Tonya was probably the best spinner of the ladies that had the ability to do all the triples. Tonya's speed and power were unmatched by most of the field. You don't know if she could of got the 3axel back by 93 worlds but it wasn't impossible. She was landing 3axels in practice in 94 at nationals, and some of the judges were disappointed that she didn't try it.
Bobek also had good power and was fast. She also had a joy to her skating as well. Good height on jumps when she landed them, excellent spiral, and was a good spinner as well.
Heiss was using her power to get both of her girls on the team. In reality, only Ervin should of went because Tonia K wasn't quite ready yet. Tonia K did get redemption at 98 worlds with 2 strong skates. Her placement there plus Michelle's was enough to get 3 spots for 99 if I recall correctly. I do respect Tonia K for being one of the few skaters at the time that could compete at a high level while attending college full time.

 

[Inessence]

IIRC, in “The Tonya tapes” Tonya felt the judges just wanted to send both of Heiss’ students to World’s that year.

 

[Jot the Dot Dot]

I never understand why people said Tonya was so bad looking and that Robbie hahahhahahahahha she is playing her. Tonya was actually pretty cute IMO.

Might be her tendency to frown and look sullen (or the cameras too-often catching her in those instances). And she was in the public eye during a time when for her smiles were few-and-far-in-between. Rachael Flatt wasn't exactly Vogue Cover Model material, but she was so naturally bubbly that even braces didn't hide or overshadow her adorability.

 

[Erin]

IIRC, in “The Tonya tapes” Tonya felt the judges just wanted to send both of Heiss’ students to World’s that year.

That's a story that's been floated around, but it's more of Tonya's "poor me" attitude if you ask me. "The judges" are not a monolithic unit. Two judges placed her higher in the free skate than Ervin, while several of them had to have placed Harding above Kwiatkowski for Harding to be initially ahead (Kwiatkowski's technical marks weren't shown on the broadcast so I can't find out the exact number). For them to coordinate such a conspiracy, especially when Harding was originally ahead of Kwiatkowski is simply impossible.

Also worth noting that two judges had Bobek ahead of Ervin and probably Kwiatkowski. So there were 4 judges who had either Bobek or Harding ahead of Ervin's cleaner skate. I think the reality is that everyone was messy, the judges weren't in agreement about anyone except Kerrigan and the chips fell where they did.

 

[cmk]

That's a story that's been floated around, but it's more of Tonya's "poor me" attitude if you ask me. "The judges" are not a monolithic unit. Two judges placed her higher in the free skate than Ervin, while several of them had to have placed Harding above Kwiatkowski for Harding to be initially ahead (Kwiatkowski's technical marks weren't shown on the broadcast so I can't find out the exact number). For them to coordinate such a conspiracy, especially when Harding was originally ahead of Kwiatkowski is simply impossible.

Also worth noting that one judge had Bobek ahead of Ervin and probably Kwiatkowski. So there were 3 judges who had either Bobek or Harding ahead of Ervin's cleaner skate. I think the reality is that everyone was messy, the judges weren't in agreement about anyone except Kerrigan and the chips fell where they did.

When everyone is messy except for 2 (Ervin, Kwan), doesn't that make you wonder about the condition of the ice at the arena? Poor ice quality could throw even the most prepared skater off. Michelle was just up from juniors and not age elgible for senior worlds that year.
There was no 4 c competition at that time that could be used as a skateoff either. (I don't know if the usfsa has ever used the 4cs that way, but other nations certainly have. Russia also uses Euros as a key component in picking their teams.
I actually liked most of the skaters. ( I didn't care for Nancy before, during , or after the whack). I actually preferred the 93-95 Michelle over the post 96 Michelle because she had a joy in her skating back then. After 96, Michelle seemed to lose the joy.

 

[bardtoob]

Poor ice quality could throw even the most prepared skater off.

Tonya was depressed and in denial after the 1992 Olympics, which goes with her new blades, new costumes, new programs at 1992 Worlds. She ate a lot and trained a little. That sums up the 1992-93 season for Tonya. Tonya skated about as well as the other older skaters at 1993 Nationals because, while they were more prepared, Tonya's talent exceeded the other's.

I think the ordinals flipping at 1993 Nationals was not a coordinated effort or a bias of the individual judges. The judges made individual determinations of a bunch of messy skates but could probably hardly tell them apart in terms of quality; they were, for all intensive purposes, tied. The individual judges only knew how they ranked the skaters, not how the other judges ranked the skaters. When everything was calculated, Lisa was ahead, but not because of any real reason other than random noise. Random noise is meaningless but it does have am arithmetic value, which determined the rankings.

 

[bardtoob]

I actually wish that the judges did rank Kwan higher and more appropriately at 1993 Nationals because that whole field, included Nancy, needed a wake-up call. I am really in shock at how bad everybody was skating all the way up to the Olympics, when Nancy finally skated to her ability after receiving her wake-up call in the form of being wacked. I really hate how it is pretty much accepted that Kwan had to be ranked lower than the others only because she was 12 years old. That means every older skater in the final group felt entitled to higher scores than Kwan only because of her age, even if they skated like crap.

 

[Erin]

I actually wish that the judges did rank Kwan higher and more appropriately at 1993 Nationals because that whole field, included Nancy, needed a wake-up call. I am really in shock at how bad everybody was skating all the way up to the Olympics, when Nancy finally skated to her ability after receiving her wake-up call in the form of being wacked. I really hate how it is pretty much accepted that Kwan had to be ranked lower than the others only because she was 12 years old. That means every older skater in the final group felt entitled to high scores than Kwan only because of her age, even if they skated like crap.

Yeah if anyone had a right to complain about how they were marked at 1993 US Nationals, I'd say it was Kwan! Her skate was lacking in the speed and power department but she got the job done, unlike anyone else that year.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=htevMS0Vnyc

(And once again, every thread on FSU comes back to the Kween!)

 

[bardtoob]

Yeah if anyone had a right to complain about how they were marked at 1993 US Nationals, I'd say it was Kwan! Her skate was lacking in the speed and power department but she got the job done, unlike anyone else that year.

Yep, and the crowd was literally roaring during Kwan's LP. She had great flow for her speed and landed clean 3F, 3T, 3T combo, 3S, and 2A with flowing edges while also falling on a 3S and having a hand down on the 3Lz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htevMS0Vnyc

(And once again, every thread on FSU comes back to the Kween!)

 

[UMBS Go Blue]

Many others have already posted in this thread with similar impressions, but just wanted to chime in with my $0.02 (or, rather, random thoughts) after seeing "I, Tonya" this past weekend in San Francisco. Warning: spoilers ahead.

Spoiler

• The movie is relatively sympathetic towards Tonya. It highlights a lot of the abuse she took from her mother and Jeff, especially how she'd keep going back to them and covering up her bruises with makeup after all but the most violent fights.
  • The physical abuse was particularly jarring for the audience. I'm sure that our current environment, where we have a heightened awareness of abusive behaviors towards women, wasn't far from people's minds.
  • Although the audience was clearly cynical about Tonya and the whole 1994 affair going into the movie, I think most people came out with a more favorable and more nuanced view of her situation. One could say that her fleeting flashes of brilliance on the ice came despite extraordinarily difficult personal circumstances.
• My own takeaway is that many things for her were a negative spiral - whether poor outside influences or poor personal choices that fed upon themselves and made her unhealthy environment even worse.
  • If I were to be charitable (and I'm not a psychologist here), I'd suspect that she had elements of Stockholm syndrome whereby she remained in abusive situations far longer than most people would, perhaps because she might have felt that she had nothing to fall back on.
  • For example, she was portrayed as going back to Jeff in almost knee-jerk fashion before the 1993-94 season - despite so much personal abuse - after being told by a judge that her unwholesome, family-unfriendly image was hurting her.
• And yes, on that note, the movie definitely portrays the skating establishment as not giving her a fair shake because of her unwholesome background.
  • Tonya does make an effort to train harder and fit in better after the 1992 Olympics - by far the most favorable part of the movie for both her and Diane. Yet again she is not rewarded with the scores she thinks she deserves. Although she does not tell judges to "suck my dick" as in her early career, she does try to seek constructive feedback, as in the scene with the judge mentioned above.
• If your stance towards Tonya is not favorable, you'd probably feel that not enough treatment was given towards what you might believe to be her own calculated role in her own affairs.
  • Yes, there are snippets here and there of her smoking and engaging in hard partying leading right up to the 1992 Olympics, but I think their significance was somewhat lost on the audience.
  • If your stance towards her is neutral or favorable, you could say that she didn't know better and, besides her coaches, didn't really have anyone on her side who could guide her towards better choices.
  • Also, if you're relatively unknowledgeable about her situation, you might gloss over the fact that, even in the movie, she never ever takes responsibility for anything bad that happens, especially anything that could even remotely be her fault.
• As for the whack heard round the world, she is portrayed as being an innocent bystander in the conspiracy. To some extent, Jeff is shown favorably too, in that Shawn Eckhardt is blamed as the dumba** delusions-of-grandeur mastermind behind the initial death threat and the organization of the whack itself.
  • In response to the initial death threat against her at the 1993 Northwest Pacific Regionals, Tonya is clearly shown as endorsing and being involved in efforts to mount similar death threats against Nancy afterwards. (Shawn's role in orchestrating the death threat is not revealed until later.) She is the one shown calling up the "Tuna Can" or Tony Kent Arena, asking for Nancy's practice times, and scribbling them down on the infamous envelope found inside the dumpster.
  • The whack, however, was all on Shawn, supposedly without the knowledge of Tonya or Jeff.
  • Even if Jeff might not have been involved in the whack conspiracy himself (and that's a big if), he does himself in by being too closely involved with Shawn, and by wiring money to the attackers in Detroit.
• The actress that plays LaVona turns in a brilliant performance. The image of her in a fur coat with a parrot on her shoulder is dead-on, especially when they play news footage of all the characters during the closing credits.
  • Tonya's dad is shown mostly in the beginning as perhaps the only positive, caring influence in her life.
• The jumps and program reenactments shown throughout are really, really good. In the movie, skating does takes second fiddle to all her shenanigans, but the skating that we do see is spot-on and adds to the drama and entertainment of it all.
• Overall, the audience was extremely entertained by the movie. I don't think anyone went in or came out of it expecting the hard truth. Even the opening captions refer to the unclear nature of the truth. But everyone enjoyed the movie and left the theatre with lots to talk and reflect about.
  • I can't remember the exact line, but the big "aha" moment for many was when Tonya faces the camera and suggests that America drew lots of satisfaction in tearing her down. Like many things in the movie, a partially fair and partially unfair assertion to make.

For those of you coming to San Jose for Nationals and who have not seen the movie yet, the CineArts theatre at the Santana Row shopping centre in San Jose has been showing the movie this week. It's about 2-3 miles south of downtown San Jose. If you do want a break from all the events at Nats, it might be worth driving or grabbing a Lyft/taxi to see. Since it's a major shopping centre directly across the street from Valley Fair - an even bigger shopping mall - there may also be VTA bus lines that go there from downtown San Jose. Google the showtimes (and bus lines) once you're in town.