Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

[altai_rose]

Yes, it could have its own element name - the stork stand.

stork stand +/- arm flapping

 

[rhapsody]

Yes, it could have its own element name - the stork stand.

I've heard it called the flamingo rule.

 

[SmallFairy]

I actually quite like the move....

 

[HeatherC]

Did anyone see the Final Five on The Tonight Show?! They were a total hoot and I love that they got to play a game with Jimmy! Hungry Hungry Humans which is exactly how it sounds if you know that old children's game, LMAO

 

[bardtoob]

@HeatherC

That's for mentioning this. My TV says other than Donald Glover, the guest is Dolly Parton.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Did anyone see the Final Five on The Tonight Show?! They were a total hoot and I love that they got to play a game with Jimmy! Hungry Hungry Humans which is exactly how it sounds if you know that old children's game, LMAO

YouTube: Hungry Hungry Humans with the Final Five and Donald Glover

 

[nikjil]

It really makes you wonder what NBC would have done if Kerri and Michael Phelps hadn't returned for this Olympics. I am so over beach volleyball. I wanted to see the gymnastics on my tv, not on my tiny computer screen. It would have taken five minutes to show the high bar. That's one semi-final heat.

I hooked up my computer to the tv, (do the same thing for watching Ice Network), works great.

 

[Buzz]

Who are the most promising juniors?

 

[aftershocks]

http://www.theskatinglesson.com/

Dave Lease's interview with former Canadian gymnast, Stella Umeh: "I'm having a hard time watching only NBC coverage"

Stella:[Re NBC coverage] "...it’s not the Olympics. It feels like just an American competition of different sports without any opponent."

On current state of gymnastics
Stella: "... I think there is an interesting upswing in terms of the skills that these athletes are doing. There’s really big power gymnastics. I really, really, one-hundred percent miss the artistry. I miss compulsories, ... Big tricks, big skills, I love it, but it makes me miss the artistry, and the nuances. The excitement, the pulse and the energy of it isn’t there for me. [When I was watching the other night], everybody’s bar routine looked exactly the same to me to be quite honest..."

On the U.S. team
Stella: "... Gymnastics in the United States has blown up. I have to commend American gymnastics because it has always been a superpower. Now they’re unstoppable. The women are ridiculous in this code and the way that [the team] has been set up with the training regime. The federation or the folks working within the system really understand how to package to make it work for [the U.S.] ... The girls [are incredible]. It’s just a different drive, a different yearning. I’ve never seen anything like this to be honest... Simone Biles definitely has a really sweet, wonderful heart and smiles a lot off the floor. On the floor, she’s a focused monster. And I don’t mean monster in a bad way... Her focus is unprecedented. I’ve never seen anyone like her. The same with Aly; I think they all have the exact same focus... It’s funny because their personalities are very different on and off the floor..."

About the Karolyi 'system' as loosely defined by Dave Lease
Stella: "...I don’t believe in the survival of the fittest, but of course, I get that you can’t fault it because it is creating champions. So, you can look at it both ways. My personality and the way that I loved gymnastics and still do, I don’t know how well I would have survived in a system like that. It’s really funny, because way back in the day, Bela [Karolyi] actually came up to me and said, ‘Stella, you should train with me. Come to my gym.’ I thought, 'There’s no way.' ... It’s [Karolyi system] a personality mold more than the artistic mold... The way that I loved gymnastics and the reason why I went to the gym every single day; it was the one place I felt so safe and I loved being there. To have it be regimented like that, I think would’ve killed it for me. I probably wouldn’t have lasted very long because it would’ve taken all of the love and the discovery out of it for me."

 

[hirshey girl]

This is an amazing story! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...gymnast_us_57bddfede4b04193420cb68d?section=&

 

[Cachoo]

http://www.theskatinglesson.com/

Dave Lease's interview with former Canadian gymnast, Stella Umeh: "I'm having a hard time watching only NBC coverage"

Stella:[Re NBC coverage] "...it’s not the Olympics. It feels like just an American competition of different sports without any opponent."

On current state of gymnastics
Stella: "... I think there is an interesting upswing in terms of the skills that these athletes are doing. There’s really big power gymnastics. I really, really, one-hundred percent miss the artistry. I miss compulsories, ... Big tricks, big skills, I love it, but it makes me miss the artistry, and the nuances. The excitement, the pulse and the energy of it isn’t there for me. [When I was watching the other night], everybody’s bar routine looked exactly the same to me to be quite honest..."

On the U.S. team
Stella: "... Gymnastics in the United States has blown up. I have to commend American gymnastics because it has always been a superpower. Now they’re unstoppable. The women are ridiculous in this code and the way that [the team] has been set up with the training regime. The federation or the folks working within the system really understand how to package to make it work for [the U.S.] ... The girls [are incredible]. It’s just a different drive, a different yearning. I’ve never seen anything like this to be honest... Simone Biles definitely has a really sweet, wonderful heart and smiles a lot off the floor. On the floor, she’s a focused monster. And I don’t mean monster in a bad way... Her focus is unprecedented. I’ve never seen anyone like her. The same with Aly; I think they all have the exact same focus... It’s funny because their personalities are very different on and off the floor..."

About the Karolyi 'system' as loosely defined by Dave Lease
Stella: "...I don’t believe in the survival of the fittest, but of course, I get that you can’t fault it because it is creating champions. So, you can look at it both ways. My personality and the way that I loved gymnastics and still do, I don’t know how well I would have survived in a system like that. It’s really funny, because way back in the day, Bela [Karolyi] actually came up to me and said, ‘Stella, you should train with me. Come to my gym.’ I thought, 'There’s no way.' ... It’s [Karolyi system] a personality mold more than the artistic mold... The way that I loved gymnastics and the reason why I went to the gym every single day; it was the one place I felt so safe and I loved being there. To have it be regimented like that, I think would’ve killed it for me. I probably wouldn’t have lasted very long because it would’ve taken all of the love and the discovery out of it for me."

I think that is a question I have about the Fierce Five and the Final Five. You know there had to be nerves when they were on the Olympic stage but they really seemed to be having fun while moving from skill to skill. How does one prepare a team for that? Do you think it happens while they are training at the ranch? Or was it there all along before the team-building began once they arrived in Texas? I don't know if it is due to Marta or not.

 

[Gazpacho]

I think that is a question I have about the Fierce Five and the Final Five. You know there had to be nerves when they were on the Olympic stage but they really seemed to be having fun while moving from skill to skill. How does one prepare a team for that? Do you think it happens while they are training at the ranch? Or was it there all along before the team-building began once they arrived in Texas? I don't know if it is due to Marta or not.

I think you'd be giving Marta too much credit. The 2004 and 2008 teams imploded under the pressure. Yes Marta may have learned from those incidents, but I'd say that it was due far more to the fact that they were overwhelming favorites who knew they had a cushion.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Yes, apparently Marta has to see something in the girls she selects to make the team, and then cross her fingers and hold her breath once they go out on the floor to compete. Plus, it's not just about the Karolyis, since all the American coaches seem to have come together to help build a strong National team. And now Marta is retiring, leaving a successful system in place.

I think that is a question I have about the Fierce Five and the Final Five. You know there had to be nerves when they were on the Olympic stage but they really seemed to be having fun while moving from skill to skill. How does one prepare a team for that? Do you think it happens while they are training at the ranch? Or was it there all along before the team-building began once they arrived in Texas? I don't know if it is due to Marta or not.

^^ In the interview with Dave Lease, Stella Umeh and Dave seem to suggest that the 'Karolyi system,' has a lot to do with a strict and inflexible training regimen. And they indicate that the Karolyi magic has a lot to do with selecting girls with proven talent who fit a certain 'personality mold.' Clearly, many of the girls have their separate coaches they grew up with, but everyone has worked together with the Karolyi ranch as the defining finishing school.

Those with greater knowledge, correct me if I am reading this inaccurately.

 

[rhapsody]

This is an amazing story! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...gymnast_us_57bddfede4b04193420cb68d?section=&

I love Houry! She was a guest on the latest Gymcastic episode recapping the last day of gymnastics and spilling some deets about the Village if anyone wants to check that out.

 

[bardtoob]

@Cachoo

I think the last two US Olympic WAG Teams were so used to scrutiny in training that anxiety from being scored was reduced. I also think the interpersonal connection between the team created at the Ranch made it easy to cheer for each other. The Final Five behaved a lot like an NCAA college gymnastics team.

... The Final Five were a sharp contrast to the Magnificent Seven, which all seemed so inwardly focused.

 

[Yazmeen]

@Cachoo... The Final Five were a sharp contrast to the Magnificent Seven, which all seemed so inwardly focused.

The team has come a long way since 1992 when, after competing against the then Unified Team, a Sports Illustrated article referred to them as being "...about as unified as a bag full of cats." For Rio, the coaches worked cooperatively with each other and Marta. So nice to see Simone's coach hugging Aly after a good performance (and vice versa) compared to the days of Bela and Steve Nunno glaring at each other, jockeying to make their gymnast the "star." How I loved the photo of Aly and Simone holding on to each other waiting for Simone's last score in the individual all around. Compare that to Miller and Zmeskal who each hardly acknowledged that the other existed with their coaches' antics. The Mag 7 were a great team but not particularly close (not to mention that Strug's fame later grated on the others, especially Miller IMO). The Fierce Five, also a great team, were tighter in closeness, but not like this team. The Final Five truly came together and really seem to care about each other and be very close. Maybe it was influenced by "Mama Aly" or the fact that any of them beating Simone was practically impossible, but they all came together wonderfully as a team and supported each other and CARED. I just wish the outside world hasn't judged Gabby so harshly - she cared just as much, she just was more introverted in how she showed it. No "bag of cats" here!!!!

 

[VGThuy]

I also think that the 1992 Olympics format where team members didn't even compete on the same events together during the team competition didn't exactly foster a team environment. Lack of ranch or any centralized system and the rival club culture that existed at its height, it really was just individual gymnasts with their own personal coaches coming only meeting a like 2-3 meets a year and then being put together as a "team". I'm sure when there were 2-3 gymnasts from the same gym who made the team, they were probably more cliquey than the ones who were by themselves.

 

[Cachoo]

^^ Yes, apparently Marta has to see something in the girls she selects to make the team, and then cross her fingers and hold her breath once they go out on the floor to compete. Plus, it's not just about the Karolyis, since all the American coaches seem to have come together to help build a strong National team. And now Marta is retiring, leaving a successful system in place.
fl


^^ In the interview with Dave Lease, Stella Umeh and Dave seem to suggest that the 'Karolyi system,' has a lot to do with a strict and inflexible training regimen. And they indicate that the Karolyi magic has a lot to do with selecting girls with proven talent who fit a certain 'personality mold.' Clearly, many of the girls have their separate coaches they grew up with, but everyone has worked together with the Karolyi ranch as the defining finishing school.

Those with greater knowledge, correct me if I am reading this inaccurately.

Sometimes you might detest something or someone and you are trying to say, in the nicest possible way, how much you dislike them or their product. So you twist and turn words in such a way to make a positive into a negative. I don't know---I read her article and came away feeling like she can hardly stand the team but feels she has to artfully cover her true feelings. I think the people in this forum are more honest than this writer. I'd be curious to know if there ever was really a Karolyi offer for her to train with them. She doesn't strike me as upfront and true. I hope she isn't a judge as I'm not sure she could be fair. I feel like she would enjoy seeing the team take a fall but of course would never, ever say so (in so many words.) And that is my honest reaction.

 

[vesperholly]

I also think that the 1992 Olympics format where team members didn't even compete on the same events together during the team competition didn't exactly foster a team environment.

Wait, really? How was the team competition structured then?

 

[VGThuy]

Wait, really? How was the team competition structured then?

I actually don't know. I remember Shannon Miller saying that in her TSL interview, and just from watching the Barcelona team competition videos on YT prior to hearing that from Miller, I suspected that was the case just by how it was formatted with the network showing different U.S. gymnasts on different events at the same time and how none of the U.S. team members were in proximity to one another while one was performing on an apparatus.

 

[Erin]

Wait, really? How was the team competition structured then?

The teams competed all together in team optionals, the same way they do now in team prelims. It was only different for compulsories, where the team members were all in different subdivisions (or sometimes there was two of them together), and I think there was a degree of seeding done for the different subdivisions - i.e. better gymnasts were later. I believe that the seeding was chosen by the teams, as opposed to by some kind of standing coming in. I remember Kerri Strug and Betty Okino were in a subdivision together...I can't remember if Kim Zmeskal and Shannon Miller were competing together or if Kim was put up in an earlier subdivision than Shannon. I remember being kind of confused at the time as to how the compulsories were structured and it was never very clearly explained on TV.

 

[VGThuy]

The teams competed all together in team optionals, the same way they do now in team prelims. It was only different for compulsories, where the team members were all in different subdivisions (or sometimes there was two of them together), and I think there was a degree of seeding done for the different subdivisions - i.e. better gymnasts were later. I believe that the seeding was chosen by the teams, as opposed to by some kind of standing coming in. I remember Kerri Strug and Betty Okino were in a subdivision together...I can't remember if Kim Zmeskal and Shannon Miller were competing together or if Kim was put up in an earlier subdivision than Shannon. I remember being kind of confused at the time as to how the compulsories were structured and it was never very clearly explained on TV.

THANK YOU! I've always wondered how that worked. Was that format for compulsories used in 1996 and before 1992 as well?

 

[escaflowne9282]

THANK YOU! I've always wondered how that worked. Was that format for compulsories used in 1996 and before 1992 as well?

Nope. Every other Olympics had the teams all together doing the Compulsories. Subdivisions were a one time thing in 1992 only. The problem with it is that in 1992 the gymnasts who were strongest at compulsories for each team, weren't necessarily the big names, nor the ones most likely to shine in the Optionals. As a result, many of the scores simply made no sense relative to some of the earlier subdivisions. The overscoring of Cristina Bontas on beam and Gutsu and Boginskaya (and Miller ) on floor is pretty when you look back on it.

 

[bardtoob]

Here is a gymnast doing compulsory floor with pointed toes and flicked wrists ...

https://youtu.be/jUbfn0FZS8k

 

[Yazmeen]

Here is that actual article from SI, maybe it can shed some light:

"The U.S. women, by contrast, were about as unified as a bagful of cats. They seldom watched each other's routines, never mind applauded them. Zmeskal fell off the beam in the first 10 seconds of the compulsories, and Miller, who outscored all other gymnasts in the field that night, didn't exactly appear crushed by the news of her more celebrated teammate's tumble."

http://www.si.com/vault/1992/08/10/...d-the-americans-that-friendship-can-be-golden

 

[VGThuy]

And I think Kim's gymmate, Kerri Strug, was hoping to sneak into the AA finals as well which would have been at the expense of Kim. I remember Kim narrowly qualified over Strug in the end.

 

[Gazpacho]

Here is that actual article from SI, maybe it can shed some light:

"The U.S. women, by contrast, were about as unified as a bagful of cats. They seldom watched each other's routines, never mind applauded them. Zmeskal fell off the beam in the first 10 seconds of the compulsories, and Miller, who outscored all other gymnasts in the field that night, didn't exactly appear crushed by the news of her more celebrated teammate's tumble."

http://www.si.com/vault/1992/08/10/...d-the-americans-that-friendship-can-be-golden

One thing that may have hurt the 1992 team is the fact that there were several Karolyi gymnasts. Bela was known for pitting his gymnasts against each other.

Then there was Steve Nunno who was known for controlling Shannon to a great degree, even controlling her interactions with teammates.

The 1992 gymnasts were also younger. Kerri Strug was 14, Miller and Dawes were 15. It was basically a group of ultra competitive high school freshmen who were easily manipulated by their coaches.

And I think Kim's gymmate, Kerri Strug, was hoping to sneak into the AA finals as well which would have been at the expense of Kim. I remember Kim narrowly qualified over Strug in the end.

I thought it was Okino not Strug?

 

[meggonzo]

Kim was was the 3rd qualifier for AA after Miller and Okino. Strug was 4th.

 

[aftershocks]

Sometimes you might detest something or someone and you are trying to say, in the nicest possible way, how much you dislike them or their product. So you twist and turn words in such a way to make a positive into a negative. I don't know---I read her article and came away feeling like she can hardly stand the team but feels she has to artfully cover her true feelings. I think the people in this forum are more honest than this writer. I'd be curious to know if there ever was really a Karolyi offer for her to train with them. She doesn't strike me as upfront and true. I hope she isn't a judge as I'm not sure she could be fair. I feel like she would enjoy seeing the team take a fall but of course would never, ever say so (in so many words.) And that is my honest reaction.

Wow, I think you are over-analyzing what is simply a conversation (not an article) between Dave Lease and former Canadian gymnast, Stella Umeh. I never followed Umeh's career, but I think her viewpoints and the exchange between her and Lease are forthright and genuine. I see no reason to disbelieve anything Umeh expressed about her feelings re gymnastics and the incidents that took place when she was competing.

If you didn't link to and read the entire interview, it might be helpful for you to read Umeh's comments in context.

 

[Allskate]

Laurie Hernandez reportedly is doing Dancing with the Stars this fall:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/olympic-gymnast-laurie-hernandez-joins-224100538.html

Simone said that she couldn't do it this fall because of the tour. Is Laurie not doing the tour? I guess she won't be doing a lot of gymnastics training for a while. I guess this is a good opportunity for her, but I'm not a big fan of DWTS so I would have preferred that she focus on training and kick butt at the next Nationals and Worlds.