Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

barbk

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,795
Ratings
2,047
Now that The Ranch is being sold to USA Gymnastics, I wonder if they'll start rotating the guys and their coaches through it more like they do for the women? 'Cause whatever they're doing now is not working fabulously.
 

hirshey girl

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,458
Ratings
272
Congrats to the US alternate!! That was awesome. Leyva certainly showed that he deserved to be there. Think USAG will take a closer look at the men's team now?!
 

Cachoo

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,799
Ratings
6,438
Now that The Ranch is being sold to USA Gymnastics, I wonder if they'll start rotating the guys and their coaches through it more like they do for the women? 'Cause whatever they're doing now is not working fabulously.
Do they have someone who is the final authority like Marta?
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,136
Ratings
3,026
Now that The Ranch is being sold to USA Gymnastics, I wonder if they'll start rotating the guys and their coaches through it more like they do for the women? 'Cause whatever they're doing now is not working fabulously.
I think they clearly need to fix somethings. There's no cookie for you when the person leaving with the most medals-is your alternate. However in fairness to the men, I DO think the men's field is more deep right now...

Alexandrov is free, I wonder why they don't ever have him work with men. He only coached one of the greatest men of all time?
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
Messages
12,771
Ratings
9,672
:shuffle: I have to admit that it was "fair" that Leyva was an alternate, but ... It was clear that he had more medal potential than the others. If Marta had selected the team, I think Leyva would have been on it a la Gabby.
 

Gazpacho

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,893
Ratings
1,557
Really happy for Fabian!

Anyone know what happened to Zou Kai aka master code whore? Not on the team.

The Chinese thankfully have taken a step away from high bar code whoring. I was pleasantly surprised to see Zhang Chenglong's risky routine.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,136
Ratings
3,026
:shuffle: I have to admit that it was "fair" that Leyva was an alternate, but ... It was clear that he had more medal potential than the others. If Marta had selected the team, I think Leyva would have been on it a la Gabby.
I think it is more than fair to take those things into account. This is a judged sport. I think Marta's teams selections in general have been pretty fair. I get why people were upset about Douglas, but I think her reasoning for Douglas and Kocian was correct.

I am trying to imagine a time when Marta's clearly been unfair with her team. (I think though leaving Alicia on the team and not putting on Anna Li (was wrong)
 

Gazpacho

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,893
Ratings
1,557
I think they clearly need to fix somethings. There's no cookie for you when the person leaving with the most medals-is your alternate. However in fairness to the men, I DO think the men's field is more deep right now...

Alexandrov is free, I wonder why they don't ever have him work with men. He only coached one of the greatest men of all time?
International men's gymnastics is way deeper. With the ladies - I know they're officially called women, but half of them are high school age so ladies is more appropriate in my opinion - you can medal with major mistakes. In men's you need clean difficult routines with good form to stand a chance.

Additionally, the talent pool for men's gymnastics is pretty small in the United States.

A Marta figure will be of limited help when you're working in that context.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
Messages
12,771
Ratings
9,672
I am trying to imagine a time when Marta's clearly been unfair with her team. (I think though leaving Alicia on the team and not putting on Anna Li (was wrong)
It is probably inconsequential since it did not influence the results, but I am wondering what interact and behaviors on both sides lead to that.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,136
Ratings
3,026
It is probably inconsequential since it did not influence the results, but I am wondering what interact and behaviors on both sides lead to that.
My main issue was that Alicia was not even there. And they gave her a medal and said it made her more/tied with Shannon Miller.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
Messages
12,771
Ratings
9,672
My main issue was that Alicia was not even there. And they gave her a medal and said it made her more/tied with Shannon Miller.
That, in and of itself, seems inconsequential to me. Marta was basically choosing who gets the extra medal, and chose the first string injured gymnast that earned her spot rather than the second string gymnast. In a way, it is a sign of good faith that Marta did not just throw away Alicia because she was injured.
 

barbk

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,795
Ratings
2,047
International men's gymnastics is way deeper. With the ladies - I know they're officially called women, but half of them are high school age so ladies is more appropriate in my opinion - you can medal with major mistakes. In men's you need clean difficult routines with good form to stand a chance.

Additionally, the talent pool for men's gymnastics is pretty small in the United States.

A Marta figure will be of limited help when you're working in that context.
I agree that the international pool is very deep, but what we see with the US Men is a lot of mistakes. A great team qualifying event followed by a pretty bad Team Final. Like they're all channeling Gracie Gold.
 

Gazpacho

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,893
Ratings
1,557
I agree that the international pool is very deep, but what we see with the US Men is a lot of mistakes. A great team qualifying event followed by a pretty bad Team Final. Like they're all channeling Gracie Gold.
I venture to guess that the men make a lot more mistakes than the females in practice too. They don't have the mastery. They are at the very edge of their ability because they need to try those skills in order to be competitive in the deep international context.

When you are trying skills at the very edge of your ability, the slightest bit of nerves can tip you the wrong way, literally. The men aren't at a level where they can be confident all the time.

The females are so good at those skills, leading them to be more confident, that they can withstand some competition pressure.
 
Messages
9,437
Ratings
4,926
Wheee Amy Tinkler :cheer:

And fellow Leeds boy Nile Wilson :cheer2:

I can't believe how well Team GB have done here after under-performing somewhat in the team competitions. Tinkler definitely showed she can compete and should have done AA in qualification.

And yay Simone and Ali. Awesome performance from both girls. Simone will leave here a superstar and Ali has been totally clutch :respec:
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
Messages
12,771
Ratings
9,672
:COP: ... Process ... Alternate wins 2/3 of a teams medals and the highest placements.

Probably inconsistent and poor preparation across the program.

Maybe a Marta figure would be good for training structure, if not for final decision making.
 

Rob

Beach Bum
Messages
14,347
Ratings
3,276
I am over the moon for HB and PB results. Well, hoping for a medal for Larduet, but Fabian and Oleg, wheeee! And Wilson/Belyavskiy! And Leyva 2 medals - they never should have doubted him - he's a late season guy, big competition guy!

GB had a nice EF medal haul after the team disappointments!
 

morqet

rising like a phoenix
Messages
2,300
Ratings
4,180
GB had a nice EF medal haul after the team disappointments!
I think (working off Wikipedia...) that prior to 2012 GB had won 4 medals in Gymnastics in the whole history of the Olympics, going back as far as 1892... then in 2012 they doubled the haul with 4, and now 7 in one Games (including Bryony's trampoline medal) is just mad!
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,384
Ratings
39,100
I wonder if the Alica Sacramone/Anna Li situation was Martha's way of not having to deal with the possibility of Anna Li hitting her ambitious and risky bars routine in qualifications and thus having no choice but to put her in TF only to have her mess up in a 3 up/3 count system since Li didn't always hit her routine, though her consistency was improving.

Either way, I still think it was wrong to give Sacramone a pity medal over Anna Li who was a reserve and who was physically able to compete. That's what reserves are for. It probably wasn't as cold as 2013 Worlds where Martha chose to leave Brenna Dowell off completely in order to give McKayla Maroney a chance to qualify for AA even though Dowell traveled all the way there and was under the impression she would compete on her specialties only to have the rug pulled out from under her right before competition started. She tried to be a class act but she understandably couldn't help but show her disappointment and tears. But then that doesn't get spoken about as much due to Al Fong's comments afterwards and after we saw how Dowell performed at 2015 Worlds.
 

Cachoo

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,799
Ratings
6,438
Really happy for Fabian!

Anyone know what happened to Zou Kai aka master code whore? Not on the team.

The Chinese thankfully have taken a step away from high bar code whoring. I was pleasantly surprised to see Zhang Chenglong's risky routine.
What is high bar code whoring? Now that we've seen that incredible routine on the ladies beam I want to know the ins and outs and the possibilities involved with scoring in this sport.
 

Gazpacho

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,893
Ratings
1,557
What is high bar code whoring? Now that we've seen that incredible routine on the ladies beam I want to know the ins and outs and the possibilities involved with scoring in this sport.
Watch the 2008 event final in high bar to see code whoring paying off.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)