Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

[bardtoob]

I think that camp is about being able to compare top gymnasts on a regular basis in a situation where competitions are few and far between. It is good to know if a gymnast is in a slump two weeks before Worlds despite winning Nationals three months earlier.

 

[Bellanca]

Also, one more thing, might I respectfully remind our passionate gymnastics fans that the gymnasts already know each other pretty well, very well, actually, via comps throughout the season, and in many cases without the aid of a camp, as I have already mentioned in another post. Again, and not to be redundant, but many gymnasts have formed very meaningful friendships along the way that were not introduced at a camp. Consider that the other take on the camp bonding/training discussion. Their natural abilities and talents will get them prepared and ready to compete very quickly. It’s what they do!

Btw, most coaches DO love the idea of camps (some, not so much) for obvious reasons, but that's more about strategy than anything else which they also gather from competitions.

My point is, the women do not need to revisit, ever again, a controlling and abusive environment that they, unfortunately, experienced at Camp Károlyi.

I would like to see USAG give the entire camp requirement a break and focus on repairing the damage that has been done to so many gymnasts and their families. They need to worry about doing that, first, rather than rounding everyone up for their (required) camps!

 

[Rob]

Actually, when I watched gymnastics back in the 60s -80s, it appeared that the US gymnasts barely spoke to each other and seemed to see each other as rivals. Camp did change that, but at what cost? There has to be a way to promote bonding experiences and make sure gymnasts are competition ready without seclusion, abuse, risk of injury. But I agree, repair the damage first, check up on those who were abused to make sure they are getting cared for, learn from that, then figure out what is next.

 

[Rob]

Aly was never a “pet” she was the leader, a part of helping to get her teammates in the right mentality to be unbeatable despite the clusterf#ck of a situation they all had to endure. I honestly expected better from people that post here.

Same as Sacramone -- a leader with mental toughness and difficulty in her routines, that is what Marta's prototype became.

 

[just tuned in]

Aly and Alicia were both favored, for whatever reasons. But getting back to the original troll, in NO WAY does that mean that Aly is somehow wrong to lead the charge against sexual abuse.

 

[Bellanca]

Actually, when I watched gymnastics back in the 60s -80s, it appeared that the US gymnasts barely spoke to each other and seemed to see each other as rivals

I think it depends on the athletes and their comfort zone at a competition. For example, some of them want to know the scores in real time and some do not until the end of the meet. Also, many gymnasts do not like to chat or kid around at comps, and even gymnasts that do enjoy friendships and have been through the bonding ritual are still very much (friendly) rivals. They may like each other a lot, but they still want to kick their buddies . That's sport.

Camp did change that, but at what cost?

Exactly. The last thing USAG should be worrying about right now are these ridiculous "bonding" camps. They need to get their house in order first and shelve the appearances because not too many are fooled at this point.

 

[ilovepaydays]

The U.S. men’s team for worlds has been named!

I’m not sure what their chances for medals are - either team or individually.

I also think it could get interesting which man qualifies along with Mikulak for the AA. Not 100% sure it will be Moldauer.

 

[Erin]

I also think it could get interesting which man qualifies along with Mikulak for the AA. Not 100% sure it will be Moldauer.

I would be surprised if any other men besides Yul and Sam do AA in the prelims. It’s 5-4-3 in prelims. Yul and Sam are generally in the top 3 on most events when they hit (and often when they don’t - eg Sam has the top score on high bar even with misses, which shows how bad the US is on high bar these days). I would predict that Yul and Sam do AA. I would want Van Wicklen to do vault and high bar, Modi p-bars and floor, Yoder pommel horse and rings. For the fourth person on each event it’s a total tossup, because of these guys, they all had one good day on the event and one bad day on the event.

 

[ilovepaydays]

I think this is realistically the best team the U.S. men could have put together. Maybe they will have two great days and finish a promising 4th and then get some individual apparatus medals. A healthier Kimble could have helped things a little bit.

I'm afraid Bower, unless he gets some major upgrades, is going to be the chronic alternate. I wonder if he is going to continue or go on to medical school. I guess he could do another year because he (I think?) can't start until next fall, anyway.

 

[ilovepaydays]

The nomative entry list for Worlds is out.

at the women for the USA.........

 

[ilovepaydays]

USAGym press release about the women’s world team selection camp.

Jade and Trinity are apparently going towards qualifying one of the individual spots.

 

[Erin]

USAGym press release about the women’s world team selection camp.

Jade and Trinity are apparently going towards qualifying one of the individual spots.

I don’t know if Trinity is trying to qualify an individual spot or if she is just focusing on school. She started taking classes at Florida in the summer, and I could see her thinking she was out of the running for a spot and opting out. Although with Jade no longer part of the team, Trinity would actually be the perfect alternate.

 

[Rob]

I have no hopes of figuring out all the new qualifying ins and outs. They can’t compete at 2018 worlds if they want to qualify individually?

 

[Erin]

I have no hopes of figuring out all the new qualifying ins and outs. They can’t compete at 2018 worlds if they want to qualify individually?

Sort of. If the USA finishes in the top 3 at Worlds this year (highly likely), which qualifies them a spot to the Olympics and Jade Carey wants to get an individual nominative spot (which means it's hers and hers alone and can't go to another a team USA member) via the event World Cups, then yes, she can't go to 2018 Worlds. And according to the USAG press release, that's what she wants.

This is a terrible strategy for team USA to get an extra spot, as they could easily get two non-nominative spots via the AA World Cups in 2020 and the 2020 Pan Am Championships. Jade Carey could very well earn one of the non-nominative spots or even be on the 2020 team. All of which would allow her to be on the World team this year (she just couldn't go to 2020 Pan Ams to earn the spot). In this situation, if Jade earns the spot and becomes injured or isn't performing as well in 2020, the US can't replace her with another US gymnast - either she goes and performs the best she can under the circumstances or if she is too injured to compete at all, the spot goes to whoever is next in line outside the US. That said, for Jade personally, she may feel like this is the best way to secure her spot at the Olympics because if she does get the spot, it belongs to her and she isn't relying on USAG selection procedures to get a spot. There was some talk about whether she would even be sent to the World Cups to earn the spot, since this is not in the best interest of USAG - however, a former USAG official who now works for the Olympic channel posted on twitter that USAG may not be able to deny her the chance because of the Amateur Sports Act but that she would likely have to self-fund the trips.

One thing that did occur to me is that this is probably good news for Canada and Brazil (or perhaps Argentina/Mexico/Cuba). If the US was following the expected strategy, they would easily lock up one of the non-nominative spots at Pan Ams in 2020 and everyone else would be fighting for the last spot. However, if Jade earns a spot at the event World Cups and the US earns a second spot at the AA World Cups, they have maxed out their spots and two spots would still be up for grabs at Pan Ams.

(Sorry...that's probably way more information than you wanted with your simple question...)

 

[dramagrrl]

@Erin, thanks for the detailed explanation - you cleared up a few things I was wondering about.

 

[Rob]

Oh it hurts my head! Thanks for the explanation!

 

[snoopyskater]

Oh it hurts my head! Thanks for the explanation!

Couldn't there be a simpler process? This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Erin]

Yeah, the process is terrible. I have so many problems with it that I don't even know where to start. I've heard that the process will be different (and I hope simpler) for 2024.

 

[bardtoob]

Yeah, the process is terrible. I have so many problems with it that I don't even know where to start. I've heard that the process will be different (and I hope simpler) for 2024.

Yeah, by then the "team" event will consist of a "team" of one gymnast per country

 

[rhapsody]

Yeah, by then the "team" event will consist of a "team" of one gymnast per country

Soon! They're only down to 3 member teams as of the 2015 European Games.

 

[Rob]

So, with Carey out, what's your guess on the World team? Of course Biles is a lock, and I think Hurd, McCusker, McCallum are in absent camp disaster. Last spot depends on Smith's recovery. I could see Eaker making it for BB, but not so much as an alternate - I think Jones would be a better choice for alternate unless Smith is the alternate. I kind of doubt they'd take Chiles just for VT this time. Thoughts?

 

[Winnipeg]

Why the reduction in team member #'s??

Complex process could be a way to make it less transparent to outsiders........

 

[HeatherC]

I really like a team of Biles, Hurd, McCusker, and McCallum (I've had my eye on Grace since the US Classic and I'm glad that she's been improving at every competition). I think it's the best team the US could send to Worlds right now.

 

[Erin]

So, with Carey out, what's your guess on the World team? Of course Biles is a lock, and I think Hurd, McCusker, McCallum are in absent camp disaster. Last spot depends on Smith's recovery. I could see Eaker making it for BB, but not so much as an alternate - I think Jones would be a better choice for alternate unless Smith is the alternate. I kind of doubt they'd take Chiles just for VT this time. Thoughts?

I think the nominative team (Biles, Hurd, McCusker, McCallum, Eaker with Jones as the alternate) should be the final team, barring injury. Even if Smith impresses at camp, I feel like she has been too inconsistent this year to justify taking her and the same goes for Chiles and her Amanar.

 

[Winnipeg]

WHat happened to O'Keefe?

 

[Rob]

Injured I think and hasn't recovered yet.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Live now: 2018 USA Women’s World Team Selection Camp

 

[tuffcaco]

I really like Riley McCusker but her scores in all events today have been way higher than I expected, even with national scoring inflation. Everyone else seems to be scored more or less as expected.

 

[danafan]

And Biles did the 1/2 on front double full off on vault and basically stuck it.

https://twitter.com/USAGym/status/1050509866882744322

 

[mjb52]

Somehow this thread led me to acrobatics world gymnastics videos on youtube and now I am a bit obsessed.