Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

[danafan]

Aly Raisman is not impressed.

https://twitter.com/Aly_Raisman/status/1034625167635476480

 

[danafan]

Alyssa Beckerman is not impressed either (former student of Mary Lee Tracy).

https://twitter.com/AlyssaBeckerman/status/1034620746977431553

Choosing Mary Lee Tracy is a giant step backwards for USAG. I wouldn’t allow her anywhere near young women’s development or self esteem with a 20 foot pole.

 

[Aceon6]

Alyssa Beckerman is not impressed either (former student of Mary Lee Tracy).

So much for the key role of athlete advisors to the "new" USAGym. You'd think they'd learn, but plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

The only thing that may be going on is that competent, sensitive people wouldn't touch a USAGym job with a ten foot pole right now. The candidate pool may have been very, very small.

 

[savchenkoboss]

It is ironic Aly Raisman whines so much about USA gymnastics when it is she who received so many gifts from USA gymnastics, for instance her undeserved AA chances of the 2011 Worlds and 2012 Olympics where Maggie Nichols and Laurie Fernandez should have done the AA instead. No surprises she never even mentions that though, LOL, she is delusional and retarded enough she probably doesnt even view those as the gifts they were.

 

[mattiecat13]

Does anyone know the "story" that Alyssa references in her tweet? I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[dramagrrl]

Aly Raisman is not impressed.

https://twitter.com/Aly_Raisman/status/1034625167635476480

I am not impressed, either.

It is ironic Aly Raisman whines so much about USA gymnastics when it is she who received so many gifts from USA gymnastics, for instance her undeserved AA chances of the 2011 Worlds and 2012 Olympics where Maggie Nichols and Laurie Fernandez should have done the AA instead. No surprises she never even mentions that though, LOL, she is delusional and retarded enough she probably doesnt even view those as the gifts they were.

First of all, I'm not even going to get into the argument about Aly over Laurie for Olympic AA (and you obviously meant 2016, not 2012) because the many arguments about why it was not a "gift" to give Aly the AA spot have been made thousands of times before by others.

Second of all, the fact that you would use the word "retarded" as an insult automatically means your opinion should be dismissed.

 

[skatingguy]

First of all, I'm not even going to get into the argument about Aly over Laurie for Olympic AA (and you obviously meant 2016, not 2012) because the many arguments about why it was not a "gift" to give Aly the AA spot have been made thousands of times before by others.

Based on the Olympic trials Raisman was 3rd overall, so I would say there is no argument about it being a gift, and she went on to win the silver medal at the Olympics.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Based on the Olympic trials Raisman was 3rd overall, so I would say there is no argument about it being a gift, and she went on to win the silver medal at the Olympics.

3rd overall BEHIND Hernandez. So yes there is a HUGE argument to it being a gift. On real gymnastics sites with smart fans who know the sport, 90% or more said it was a gift (and at the 2015 worlds). The opinions of neophytes with minimal gymnastics knowledge on a figure skating site like this which is ridiculously pro Raisman for years to begin with are irrelevant.

Raisman should be thanking and kissing the feet of U.S gymnastics for giving her so many GIFTS and blatant favortism over the years and stop being a whiny bitch. Unless she is willing to acknowledge the many gifts, and undeserved chances of medals she was gifted, she had over the years due to favortism from the USGA, in addition to complaining about Nassar and other things.

 

[dramagrrl]

3rd overall BEHIND Hernandez. So yes there is a HUGE argument to it being a gift. On real gymnastics sites with smart fans who know the sport, 90% or more said it was a gift (and at the 2015 worlds). The opinions of neophytes with minimal gymnastics knowledge on a figure skating site like this which is ridiculously pro Raisman for years to begin with are irrelevant.

Right, because you somehow magically know exactly how much gymnastics knowledge every poster on this site has, and aren't just making a stupidly broad assumption that because this is a figure skating board, there aren't also people here who are very knowledgeable about other sports.

Your claim that "90% or more" of fans on "real gymnastics sites" said Raisman's AA spot was a gift is also ludicrous, because I read several "real" gymnastics sites and know that there were plenty of fans who supported the decision. If you added up Aly and Laurie's AA scores from Nationals and Trials, there was less than a point separating them. The fact that they were virtually tied, plus Raisman's international experience (of which Hernandez had almost none as a senior) and the news that later came out about Laurie's injury, made the decision very fair. The unfortunate thing was the fact that both Laurie and Aly couldn't compete AA due to the situation of having to put Gabby up on bars since that was basically the only reason she was on the team.

Plus, anyone who applauds the decision to name Mary-Lee Tracy, who has a history of injured gymnasts and former students speaking out about the way she treats her athletes, to an influential position clearly has skewed and problematic opinions.

 

[DimaToe]

It is ironic Aly Raisman whines so much about USA gymnastics when it is she who received so many gifts from USA gymnastics, for instance her undeserved AA chances of the 2011 Worlds and 2012 Olympics where Maggie Nichols and Laurie Fernandez should have done the AA instead. No surprises she never even mentions that though, LOL, she is delusional and retarded enough she probably doesnt even view those as the gifts they were.

Aly Raisman worked her ass off for every opportunity she earned, not received. Plus how is this related to her voicing her opinion about an organization that let such abuse run rampant for decades? Just go sit on a big one, it’s somethinrg to voice an opinion, but it’s completely stupid to just ignorantly open your mouth and let the diarrhea run wild.

 

[Prancer]

It is ironic Aly Raisman whines so much about USA gymnastics when it is she who received so many gifts from USA gymnastics, for instance her undeserved AA chances of the 2011 Worlds and 2012 Olympics where Maggie Nichols and Laurie Fernandez should have done the AA instead. No surprises she never even mentions that though, LOL, she is delusional and retarded enough she probably doesnt even view those as the gifts they were.

Again, are you already tired of being back? This is the second time I've asked. There won't be a third.

 

[4rkidz]

3rd overall BEHIND Hernandez. So yes there is a HUGE argument to it being a gift. On real gymnastics sites with smart fans who know the sport, 90% or more said it was a gift (and at the 2015 worlds). The opinions of neophytes with minimal gymnastics knowledge on a figure skating site like this which is ridiculously pro Raisman for years to begin with are irrelevant.

Raisman should be thanking and kissing the feet of U.S gymnastics for giving her so many GIFTS and blatant favortism over the years and stop being a whiny bitch. Unless she is willing to acknowledge the many gifts, and undeserved chances of medals she was gifted, she had over the years due to favortism from the USGA, in addition to complaining about Nassar and other things.

Do you have sort of personal grudge against Raisman? I think such vitriol is ridiculous. Why do you defend child abusers so strongly? I’m really curious?

 

[skatingguy]

3rd overall BEHIND Hernandez. So yes there is a HUGE argument to it being a gift. On real gymnastics sites with smart fans who know the sport, 90% or more said it was a gift (and at the 2015 worlds). The opinions of neophytes with minimal gymnastics knowledge on a figure skating site like this which is ridiculously pro Raisman for years to begin with are irrelevant.

Raisman should be thanking and kissing the feet of U.S gymnastics for giving her so many GIFTS and blatant favortism over the years and stop being a whiny bitch. Unless she is willing to acknowledge the many gifts, and undeserved chances of medals she was gifted, she had over the years due to favortism from the USGA, in addition to complaining about Nassar and other things.

And 3 athletes competed for the AA at the Olympics - if there was a spot in the AA that was gifted, how was it not the spot that Gaby Douglas got - that was one that seemed surprising to me given Hernandez's performance in the US selection events.

 

[savchenkoboss]

And 3 athletes competed for the AA at the Olympics - if there was a spot in the AA that was gifted, how was it not the spot that Gaby Douglas got - that was one that seemed surprising to me given Hernandez's performance in the US selection events.

Simple. Douglas automatically got the 3rd AA chance, not due to her AA abilities, but since Kocian and Douglas absolutely had to compete bars. That was the only reason both made the team in the first place. Well Douglas to a minor degree her AA abilities, otherwise they would have just sent Kocian and Locklear and left Douglas at home, but mainly the only reason both were there was bars. So to sit either off of bars would be stupid and unimaginable. So Douglas by default/ lucky situation gets to do AA, as there is no other event you sit her out in favor of Kocian obviously.

Raisman sitting out bars in both 2015 and 2016 was incredibly easy though, when Nichols (2015) and Hernandez (2016) both destroy her on bars AND were pretty regularly beating her in the AA. The ONLY reason she didnt was she was Marta Karolyi and the USGA's pet, the same USGA she is now whining about and dissing, even though she was given many gifts and undeserved shots/things from their very corrupt hands she now dumps on. If she wants to be that self righteous and whine about Nassar and everything else, she should also whine about her AA Olympic silver which was only made possible by the same USGA corruption she claims to be a victim of. And apologize to Maggie Nichols who was robbed of the 2015 World AA silver by this same USGA corruption which invariably favored Raisman repeatedly.

 

[DimaToe]

Simple. Douglas automatically got the 3rd AA chance, not due to her AA abilities, but since Kocian and Douglas absolutely had to compete bars. That was the only reason both made the team in the first place. Well Douglas to a minor degree her AA abilities, otherwise they would have just sent Kocian and Locklear and left Douglas at home, but mainly the only reason both were there was bars. So to sit either off of bars would be stupid and unimaginable. So Douglas by default/ lucky situation gets to do AA, as there is no other event you sit her out in favor of Kocian obviously.

Raisman sitting out bars in both 2015 and 2016 was incredibly easy though, when Nichols (2015) and Hernandez (2016) both destroy her on bars AND were pretty regularly beating her in the AA. Douglas in 2015 is the same as Douglas in 2016, gets the AA chance not due to her AA abilities, but by default due to the good luck of her being a bars specialist. Although in 2015 was atleast far more competitive in the AA in 2015 than 2016, as evidenced by her atleast beating Raisman out for the actual AA spot in 2015 (although Nichols would have still easily beaten her out).

The U.S. women’s gym team in 2016 had an embarrassment of riches. All around options were not limited to Douglas, Skinner was also an option as well as a post injury Nichols and Reagan Smith beat Douglas in the all around at trials. Aside from that the U.S. women did not need 2 UB routines to secure the gold, their unreal consistency on every other event already secured that victory, at that point the best option was to choose the team combination which allowed the individual athletes to perform at their best.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Regardless I am thrilled Mary Lee Tracy, the same wonderful coach and women who prepared Phelps and Borden so beautifully for the 96 Olympics where both shone and were a huge part of the Mag 7 gold (at a time gymnastics actually had depth and Team competitions were legitimate unlike today), and has been a personal motivator and friend to so many in the sport has been appointed this important role. Mary Lee Tracy also did a wonderful job getting Kim Zmeskal back in shape for a potential run at the 2000 Olympics, which she probably would have made but for an untimely injury. And regaining the confidence of both Jennie Thompson and Kirstie Powell, after their heartbreaks of missing the 96 Olympic team, leading both to their biggest triumps- an American Cup title for Jennie, a U.S AA title for Jennie. Both spoke openly numerous times what a positive and motivating individual Mary Lee is, and how she is not just a superb technical coach, but a real friend. Phelps and Borden both visit her at the gym at times to this day, and still consider her a true friend, many years removed from the sport.

And the tears and whining of one of the most gifted (by the USGA) gymnasts of all time, the hypocritical Aly Raisman, makes it all the sweater. Good luck Mary Lee Tracy in your new post, which unlike Aly's numerous ridiculously unearned AA shots, you fully deserved! I know you will shine like the champion and champion maker you are.

 

[Red Hot Chili Keegan]

Regardless I am thrilled Mary Lee Tracy, the same wonderful coach and women who prepared Phelps and Borden so beautifully for the 96 Olympics where both shone and were a huge part of the Mag 7 gold (at a time gymnastics actually had depth and Team competitions were legitimate unlike today), and has been a personal motivator and friend to so many in the sport has been appointed this important role. Mary Lee Tracy also did a wonderful job getting Kim Zmeskal back in shape for a potential run at the 2000 Olympics, which she probably would have made but for an untimely injury. And regaining the confidence of both Jennie Thompson and Kirstie Powell, after their heartbreaks of missing the 96 Olympic team, leading both to their biggest triumps- an American Cup title for Jennie, a U.S AA title for Jennie. Both spoke openly numerous times what a positive and motivating individual Mary Lee is, and how she is not just a superb technical coach, but a real friend. Phelps and Borden both visit her at the gym at times to this day, and still consider her a true friend, many years removed from the sport.

And the tears and whining of one of the most gifted (by the USGA) gymnasts of all time, the hypocritical Aly Raisman, makes it all the sweater. Good luck Mary Lee Tracy in your new post, which unlike Aly's numerous ridiculously unearned AA shots, you fully deserved! I know you will shine like the champion and champion maker you are.

You are so smart and correct about what a great coach that Mary Lee Tracy is! And if Red Hot Chili Keegan agrees with you, you know your opinion is gold, as my husband and I are very popular on this bored.

I’m glad you talked about Kim Zmeskal leading up to the 2000 Olympics because that group is an excellent example of what a great coach Mary Lee is. She taught Kim so well and it was Kim’s fault that she tore her ACL, just like it was Moceanu’s fault that she got injured and couldn’t compete at Olympic Trials, Morgan White’s fault that she was injured after Trials and couldn’t compete at the Olympics after making the team, Alyssa Beckerman’s fault that she was an alternate but was too broken to compete and was passed over for Tasha Scwikert, Jennie Thompson’s fault that’s Mary Lee wouldn’t even take her to camp and she retired the year before the Olympics, and Sierra Sapunar also mysteriously disappeared with injuries around that time. Mary Lee had a terrific track record that year!

Lexie Priessman with her 8 orthopedic surgeries is also an excellent example of what a fine technical coach Mary Lee is, as she had a superb Amanar as a junior elite and now sometimes competes a Yurchenko full in college and does a lot of bar routines. Hopefully we get to see the same results with the developmental athletes Mary Lee is now working with.

 

[Erin]

Does anyone know the "story" that Alyssa references in her tweet? I'd be interested in reading it.

I don't definitely know, but she shared some of her experiences on the infamous Gymcastic Facebook thread that exploded about 6 months ago and this twitter poster kept screen shots (4, 5, and 7 of 8 are Alyssa's posts):
https://twitter.com/StarskyGym/status/1034625901823254528

It would be great if Gymcastic could interview her as it sounds like there is a lot she has to tell and I am guessing those posts just scratch the surface.

ETA - Alyssa was also quoted extensively in this OC Register article from 2004 and gives a picture of what training with Mary Lee was like and all the injuries she sustained:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oc...k-inside-usa-gymnastics-culture-of-abuse/amp/

As for any further thoughts on Mary Lee Tracy, I'll let the Balance Beam Situation speak for me:
https://balancebeamsituation.com/2018/08/29/things-are-happening-august-29-2018/

 

[Red Hot Chili Keegan]

As for any further thoughts on Mary Lee Tracy, I'll let the Balance Beam Situation speak for me:
https://balancebeamsituation.com/2018/08/29/things-are-happening-august-29-2018/

I found that webpage confusing but it sounds like he doesn’t like Mary Lee, but at least he called her a Sister as I forgot to mention before what a good Christian Mary Lee is. She makes all her gymnasts study the good book during gymnastics so she is spreading the lord’s word. It’s obviously a gymnastics coach’s place to impose religious education on her athletes and hopefully the hole National team will do Bible study too.

 

[bardtoob]

It is ironic Aly Raisman whines so much about USA gymnastics when it is she who received so many gifts from USA gymnastics, for instance her undeserved AA chances of the 2011 Worlds and 2012 Olympics where Maggie Nichols and Laurie Fernandez should have done the AA instead. No surprises she never even mentions that though, LOL, she is delusional and retarded enough she probably doesnt even view those as the gifts they were.

You think what she says is about gymnastics? You must be stupid.

(Permanent ignore list)

 

[Rob]

The opinions of neophytes with minimal gymnastics knowledge on a figure skating site like this which is ridiculously pro Raisman for years to begin with are irrelevant.

Actually, if you go back to 2012, most people on this board did not want Raisman on that Olympic team due to her poor form and bad dance. Most of us had her pegged as the ALT, and those who thought she'd make the team did so grudingly, noting her consistency, but wishing that Liukin would make the team as a UB specialist. I thought she'd get creamed by the judges for her lack of form. And I thought she made it only because Bross didn't recover from injury. But Weiber got the jitters. And Raisman earned her "pet" status for the next quad 3 times over (gold, gold, bronze).

I started following gymnastics in 1968, and I took gymnastics as a child though I did not compete and gave it up for ballet. I preferred trampoline to artistic gymnastics because I lacked upper body strength. But we have many posters here who did gymnastics for years and years.

 

[her grace]

I wanted Raisman on the 2012 team and did not want Liukin there.

 

[danafan]

Mary Lee Tracy is basically being forced to resign by Kerry Perry after trying to contact Aly Raisman to apologize. Since Raisman is suing USAG, all USAG employees are supposed to refrain from contacting her, apparently.

https://twitter.com/GymCastic/status/1035598234897371136

 

[danafan]

Or maybe not - she is seeking legal counsel.

https://twitter.com/MoominWhisky/status/1035612239129137153

 

[FiveRinger]

Or maybe not - she is seeking legal counsel.

https://twitter.com/MoominWhisky/status/1035612239129137153

Wow....

 

[Aceon6]

What a shit show. Disband USAG already.

 

[danafan]

USAG's tweets: https://twitter.com/USAGym/status/1035652714489950213

USA Gymnastics has asked Mary Lee Tracy to resign from the elite development coordinator role. We strongly believe in a culture that encourages our athletes and survivors to speak up and make their voices heard.

And:

As a representative of the organization, she inappropriately contacted a survivor, who is also a represented plaintiff, in response to that survivor’s public criticism of her. USA Gymnastics decided it would be best to move forward without Ms. Tracy in this role.

 

[dramagrrl]

Holy crap. Every time you think they can't make things worse, they prove otherwise.

 

[bardtoob]

This happened because elite gymnastics is a small community.

MLT should have just accepted the criticism. Trying to contact Aly can only be interpreted as aggressive since MLT has always had more power than Aly. Moreover, nothing MLT can say will make what happened better because MLT can neither take responsibility nor is directly responsible.

 

[dramagrrl]

This happened because elite gymnastics is a small community.

MLT should have just accepted the criticism. Trying to contact Aly can only be interpreted as aggressive since MLT has always had more power than Aly. Moreover, nothing MLT can say will make what happened better because MLT can neither take responsibility nor is directly responsible.

I will preface this by saying that in no way would I ever support or defend MLT, but in this circumstance, although I personally agree that quietly accepting the criticism or at least subtly addressing it publicly (saying something in a media comment about supporting the survivors, etc.) would have been the best choice, I don't necessarily think contacting Aly directly was meant as an aggressive move. One of Aly's biggest complaints has been that USAG did nothing to protect the gymnasts from Nassar and after the survivors started coming forward, no one in USAG reached out to them individually or as a group to offer support, ask for advice in terms of moving forward, etc. I can sort of see how a new higher-up in USAG might think it was a good move to contact her, without thinking about the legal consequences in advance. Even if they didn't mean it sincerely and just wanted to try to get Aly to shut up by "reaching out", they might think it would be good publicity for them.