Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

[ilovepaydays]

And the fact that choreography/presentation for the most part is trash in gymnastics worldwide with some exceptions. Even the Russians just get by on pure form in-between the tumbling rather than dance anymore. People are conditioned to accept it and think it's good though, like when people were laughing at the Dutch floor routines at the 2016 Olympics here because they actually dared to dance well and create choreography that actually had character and went with the music.

Agreed. And, to be fair, "artistry" doesn't get points and it's hard to have a "program" when you have, what 1:30 to do four tumbling passes plus various other acrobatics.

It's kinda weird that the women are expected to be "expressive" when: 1) It doesn't get points, and 2) The men aren't expected to do it. I sometimes think they should just cut the music requirement for floor or make the men have it too. You think Sam Mikulak wouldn't LOVE to tumble to some Metallica or something?

 

[HeatherC]

Simone's vaults

 

[VGThuy]

Agreed. And, to be fair, "artistry" doesn't get points and it's hard to have a "program" when you have, what 1:30 to do four tumbling passes plus various other acrobatics.

It's kinda weird that the women are expected to be "expressive" when: 1) It doesn't get points, and 2) The men aren't expected to do it. I sometimes think they should just cut the music requirement for floor or make the men have it too. You think Sam Mikulak wouldn't LOVE to tumble to some Metallica or something?

Agreed. I love the classic WAG FX but they shouldn't force women gymnasts to do it when Men don't have to do it and the direction of gym isn't even encouraging or rewarding dance anymore. Why bother having it?

 

[Willin]

I love Grace's choreography. It was so unique, particularly on the beam. Riley has such beautiful lines in an era when lines seem to be an ignored part of gymnastics.

My thing with Morgan is that while she is undeniably good, she's kinda boring. There's nothing about her that makes me say "Wow" like the power of Simone, Riley's lines, Laurie Hernandez's smile, Regan's general cuteness, Jordan's wonder woman floor, Gabby Douglas's bars, etc.

Re: artistry the dancing is really just creative posing and flopping. It's never fluid or graceful, movements are never fully executed, and none of them even try to perform with their facial expressions. Heck, for at least two of the girls I thought their choreography was actually them being injured or "flopping" in the spirit of soccer. Honestly it's painful to watch - I wish they'd remove that stuff altogether.

 

[Debbie S]

Does NBC no longer update the standings after each rotation? Grrr. Anyway, I'm impressed with Riley, and of course Simone is superhuman as usual. Grace McCallum has a lot of potential...anyone see a facial resemblance to Vanessa Atler?

Is Tom Forster the new Marta/Valeri?

 

[ilovepaydays]

Does NBC no longer update the standings after each rotation? Grrr. Anyway, I'm impressed with Riley, and of course Simone is superhuman as usual. Grace McCallum has a lot of potential...anyone see a facial resemblance to Vanessa Atler?

Is Tom Forster the new Marta/Valeri?

1) Yes, they have - and reminded us 392,340,043 times that Simone's lead would greatly increase because she is THAT MUCH better than anyone else.
2) Yes, Tom Forster is the new High Performance Coordinator for the women's program.

 

[HeatherC]

I really like Morgan's FX routine. She's so expressive and it works SO well for her.

 

[VGThuy]

I love Grace's choreography. It was so unique, particularly on the beam. Riley has such beautiful lines in an era when lines seem to be an ignored part of gymnastics.

My thing with Morgan is that while she is undeniably good, she's kinda boring. There's nothing about her that makes me say "Wow" like the power of Simone, Riley's lines, Laurie Hernandez's smile, Regan's general cuteness, Jordan's wonder woman floor, Gabby Douglas's bars, etc.

Re: artistry the dancing is really just creative posing and flopping. It's never fluid or graceful, movements are never fully executed, and none of them even try to perform with their facial expressions. Heck, for at least two of the girls I thought their choreography was actually them being injured or "flopping" in the spirit of soccer. Honestly it's painful to watch - I wish they'd remove that stuff altogether.

I will say Morgan is unusually coherent and articulate in interviews for a gymnast. Especially last year in comparison to Regan who I thought was several years younger than she was when she spoke. I wonder if Regan still gets rewarded with beads when she does well.

 

[Debbie S]

1) Yes, they have - and reminded us 392,340,043 times that Simone's lead would greatly increase because she is THAT MUCH better than anyone else.

Yes, I heard that, I just don't remember the standings on the screen, beyond Simone's lead. Guess I missed it.

Great floor ex from Morgan!

 

[HeatherC]

They were showing the results off and on throughout the entire evening.

 

[PRlady]

Still don't understand much but I think I liked Riley's beam the best of everything tonight, maybe along with Simone's vaults. (Her FE is Holy Sh** but it's all tumbling, no expression.)

Personally I'd never let any girl I care about go into this sport, it looks body-destroying much more than skating does.

 

[Erin]

Didn’t we have a similar discussion when Larissa Iordache didn’t qualify for Rio even though she was a world AA medalist?

I don’t remember what that discussion was but the qualification rules have completely changed this time so the discussion wouldn’t be relevant. Under the current rules, Iordache would have earned a nominative spot as the top all-arounder from a country without a team so Romania would have had to send her and if she was too injured, they wouldn’t be able to replace her with another gymnast. (Terrible rule if you ask me) Theoretically, Ponor could have tried to earn a nominative spot through world cups as well and maybe would have. Also, someone else could have tried to earn a nominative spot at Euros.

Agreed. And, to be fair, "artistry" doesn't get points

It does get some “points”, albeit indirectly. There is an E-score deduction (I believe up to 0.5) for lack of artistry. And from what I hear, the judges do take it. It was probably a factor in why Jade Carey finished behind Mai Murakami at Worlds last year for example. So there may not be a separate PCS score and it’s not a huge component of the score, but it isn’t nothing.

 

[dramagrrl]

Jade Carey is insanely good on floor!

I have the opposite opinion. Her tumbling is obviously great, but the rest of her FX makes me cringe and is a very stark reminder of the fact that she went from JO straight to senior elite without the experience the other girls who do junior elite for a few years before going senior get in terms of polish, grace, performance ability, etc. on all of the events, especially FX. The choreography is terrible and the way she performs it is awkward and uncommitted.

I'm going to post something that's probably going to be very unpopular on here: I REALLY don't like Simone's floor routine. The only reason why she gets away with this presentation/choreography that she has is that the tumbling/form is at a level 13402 times better than anyone else.

I agree with this as well. I think Simone is amazing, but the choreo of her current FX is much worse than her Olympic FX, which I didn't particularly love in the first place. I especially really hate the cutesy "shoulder dusting" and waving at the audience moves, and the random "Oh!" moment in the middle that is some sort of throwback to the same moves in her Olympic FX (but totally out of place in this one).

My thing with Morgan is that while she is undeniably good, she's kinda boring. There's nothing about her that makes me say "Wow" like the power of Simone, Riley's lines, Laurie Hernandez's smile, Regan's general cuteness, Jordan's wonder woman floor, Gabby Douglas's bars, etc.

Re: artistry the dancing is really just creative posing and flopping. It's never fluid or graceful, movements are never fully executed, and none of them even try to perform with their facial expressions. Heck, for at least two of the girls I thought their choreography was actually them being injured or "flopping" in the spirit of soccer. Honestly it's painful to watch - I wish they'd remove that stuff altogether.

I disagree about Morgan. Again, I think Simone is awesome and her sheer athletic skill is amazing, but I would rather watch Morgan on three out of four events (the one I would rather watch Simone on is obviously vault). Morgan's gymnastics is so precise and elegant. She seems to really consider every movement in terms of polish, style and finish. Her style on FX reminds me of 1996 Olympic AA champ Lilia Podkopayeva, which is a huge compliment for me. She doesn't just throw skills without thinking about where they belong in a program and how to start and finish them.

I love Riley's lines and style as well, but as for "Ragan's general cuteness", I find the way they package her with cutesy costumes, choreo and hairbows extremely irritating. It might have worked when she was a junior, but she is an 18-year-old adult senior competitor. Her current FX is less annoying in uber-cutesiness than her last two (her Olympic season FX in particular drove me up the wall), but it is still full of extraneous "I'm so cute!" movements.

I understand that gymnasts ignore FX choreo and dance nowadays because the judges also seem to completely ignore it, which is why routines with huge tumbling and terrible choreo like Jade's can win world medals, but IMO, if there is still going to be a requirement for music and choreography in WAG, it should be paid much more attention to and scored accordingly.

 

[Allskate]

Ugh. I got sidetracked by real life stuff and forgot to watch. Anybody know the best place where I can find vids online?

 

[just tuned in]

Morgan's form is impeccable. Legs glued together down to her toes.

Jade lacks any amplitude, stretch or extension. Her leaps on beam are not 180. Her head is down all the time.

Reagan seems to have grown about 4 inches since last year, in her torso. I was scared of her makeup. Speaking of makeup (shallow) I am dwelling on the fact that Riley matches her eyeshadow to her leotard.

As the we're going off-air, NBC showed Morgan and a cluster of girls around her, all bubbling. Simone was off by herself, except for Jade to keep her company. Does anyone here know whether the top two buried the hatchet yet?

 

[Erin]

As the we're going off-air, NBC showed Morgan and a cluster of girls around her, all bubbling. Simone was off by herself, except for Jade to keep her company. Does anyone here know whether the top two buried the hatchet yet?

At least publicly, yes - reports from the medal ceremony was that they were doing the usual protocol of hugging each other etc. Privately, who knows.

 

[pollyanna]

Ugh. I got sidetracked by real life stuff and forgot to watch. Anybody know the best place where I can find vids online?

I found day one on Youtube, so I'm hoping day two will be posted as well.

ETA - yes it has been posted on Youtube Day 2

 

[just tuned in]

Ragan Smith is not on the 2018-19 U.S. Women’s National Team.

 

[pollyanna]

Ragan Smith is not on the 2018-19 U.S. Women’s National Team.

I'm sure she's bitterly disappointed, but I think it's a very good thing. This give her more time to heal that ankle. I'd like to see Ragan come back stronger next year.

 

[Aceon6]

I may be seeing things, but Ragan’s body language looked like it was her last nationals.

 

[pollyanna]

Possibly, but I believe she did say that she wants to stay in it until 2020.

 

[Erin]

Ragan Smith is not on the 2018-19 U.S. Women’s National Team.

She could be added later, as there are spots for 28 members of the National team between juniors and seniors, and currently there are 14 people named, so more people will definitely be added. Anyone who is selected to the Worlds selection camp will be added to the National Team, for example. That said, I think it's not such a bad thing if she is not selected for the Worlds camp and takes the time off to rest and heal. I have a feeling she wouldn't see it the same way though.

The Pan Ams team was named today - Jade Carey, Kara Eaker, Grace McCallum, Trinity Thomas, and Shilese Jones, with Polina Schennikova the alternate. Great to see Eaker and Jones in particular getting the opportunity as this should be the first senior international for them, maybe even first international ever. I'm guessing the Worlds team will be two of the five named to the Pan Ams team plus Biles, Hurd, and McCusker. Assuming everyone stays healthy of course.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Hopefully, this clarifies any confusion - it helped me A LOT: 2020 Olympic Qualification Explained...But Like Actually.

 

[skatfan]

I'm loving seeing these young women with all their talent. I'm partial to the gymnasts who put all the refined features into their routines, I love me a pointed toe and turn of the head. I did love gymnastics more when the dance and refinement counted.

That said, Simone is one amazing athlete - love her power and consistency. The vaults are just spectacular. That smile still has amazing wattage. I salute her effort to upgrade her routines when there's no real competition. May she continue to speak her mind about US gymnastics - I can't think of another sport where top athletes have had this awful situation where the federation is terrified of them because lawsuits have been/could be/will be filed.

 

[FiveRinger]

Ragan Smith is not on the 2018-19 U.S. Women’s National Team.

It sucks for her, but what other choice was there? I hope that she rests her ankle, or does whatever surgery is required so that she can redeem herself in 2019. All is not lost.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Jade Carey's power, vaulting, and tumbling are impressive, but her form, technique (even on her tumbling and vaulting to a degree), choreography, dance, and artistry is atrocious. Her floor routine is literally the ugliest and most expresionless thing I have ever seen. She really needs to work with a ballet instructor or something to take her to the next level. She has amazing potential.

 

[Coco]

What on earth where Ragan's coaches and parents thinking? Even if she'd managed to squeak her way on the team, this was a crazy plan...Push through a major injury to a vital body part 2-3 years before the Olympics, yeah, that's the ticket. NOT!

 

[haribobo]

I agree, she was either getting bad advice or ignoring all the good advice. People make extremely foolish decisions in regard to their health all the time. They expect their bodies will heal themselves without the surgery or they will just bounce back to their old form just because they prayed on it or whatever. Add that to the mentality of "just push through the pain" that seems pervasive in gymnastics and this is sadly what you get. I knew after hearing the details that it was a mistake for Medvedeva to keep training and competing on her injury during the GP series, for example, and hopefully she didn't do any long term damage.

Much respect goes to the competitors who deal with their injuries the right way. I know its extremely difficult to be patient and sit out a season, but it usually pays off in the long run.

 

[just tuned in]

It sucks for her, but what other choice was there? I hope that she rests her ankle, or does whatever surgery is required so that she can redeem herself in 2019. All is not lost.

Is her current injury still the same injury from last year's Worlds!?

 

[Erin]

Is her current injury still the same injury from last year's Worlds!?

Yep Plus three broken toes to boot (although Simone also competed with broken toes...and I hope she is taking some time off herself now)