From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

[Tinami Amori]

I mean the snake part.

Ups, sorry i did not watch that far, i saw the orchestra and no dancers. Even if there were no "snake" refs in other work with Bolero, "snake" is a very creative idea, given that Spanish music of the times were heavily influenced by Moroccoan music which is influenced by Middle Eastern music.

@ 1:48

Snake Charmer Marrakech (1960-1969)

Marrakech, Morocco. VS group gathered around snake charmer in the market place. He performs with two snakes. He sticks his tongue out and holds snake's head ...

www.youtube.com

Ida Rubinstein

https://russalon.su/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/RAVEL_2-2.jpg

 

[hanca]

It gets always a bit dodgy when bonus points are awarded only to the students of one school. Valieva and Usacheva getting three extra points each... whatever. And those are bonus points for spins... well, all I am saying is that Trusova, Usacheva and Valieva should meet at some international competition and suddenly Valieva and Usacheva may have the shock of their life, when they don’t get those marks. Can anyone seriously see Valieva getting 85 in the SP, when she didn’t even do triple axel? Can anyone seriously getting Usacheva getting 80?

 

[hanca]

Trusova received higher PCS than Usacheva... but I do agree they should have called her "!" in both programs on her lutz

But it wasn’t about the PCS. Look at the base value and then and the GOE. It was GOE where Trusova was robbed. And the bonus points for Usacheva and Valieva’s spins, three each...

 

[hanca]

Tarasova who is no friend of Tutberidze (except for the show), was highly praising Valieva and Usacheva, and saying that Trusova skated "satisfactory/not bad at all". As we know, Tarasova has no problem yelling her opinion, if she thought Trusova was undermarked, she'd say it.... loudly...

Wow, once again I really admire your gift of thought reading. Based on Tarasova praising someone, you decided that they couldn’t have been overmarked? Just for your info, Tarasova praised even Talalaikina, quite a lot, and where did she end up? Seventh. Tarasova praising someone does not imply anything about the judges marking.

 

[Frau Muller]

The idea of "a snake for Bolero" was used before, by Ida Rubenshtein, in a russian cartoon, in Ice Age Kids routine, in a modern dance company number. I have links...

The original ballet Bolero by Bronislava Nijinska/M Ravel, for Ida Rubinstein’s company (reconstructed for ex-Bolshoi ballerina Alexandria), in the following film. I don’t see a snake:

Bolero - Maria Alexandrova

Choreography by Bronislava Nijinska

m.youtube.com

However, my Russian husband says that he remembers a TV cartoon in Soviet times in which snakes dance to Bolero. He’ll try to find on YouTube.

p.s. I know the Nijinska Archives (in US Library of Congress) well because I’ve conducted research on other of her ballets...some rare ones after her Diaghilev & Rubinstein periods in ‘20s.

 

[Frau Muller]

P.s. For a cool ballet costume of a snake - in the Mariinsky’s untraditional Nutcracker by Shemyakin - look no further than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQNIhJpKCc4

(In this version, Arabian is danced by a sexy serpent. Valieva may not be as tall as this ballerina but she is long-limbed & sinewy, so could pull-off this look.)

 

[muffinplus]

It gets always a bit dodgy when bonus points are awarded only to the students of one school. Valieva and Usacheva getting three extra points each... whatever. And those are bonus points for spins... well, all I am saying is that Trusova, Usacheva and Valieva should meet at some international competition and suddenly Valieva and Usacheva may have the shock of their life, when they don’t get those marks. Can anyone seriously see Valieva getting 85 in the SP, when she didn’t even do triple axel? Can anyone seriously getting Usacheva getting 80?

Valieva was definitely overscored by 3-4 points in short program relative to Nationals standars (i.e.81 would still be way too high internationally, but OK relative to Trusova's skate). Uscheva's real score without bonus would have been about 77 minus bonus, so only a point ahead of Trusova, which was mostly fair, except for her edge not called.

 

[Cherub721]

It gets always a bit dodgy when bonus points are awarded only to the students of one school. Valieva and Usacheva getting three extra points each... whatever.

I know that they are awarded points for difficult elements, but what exactly is the breakdown of how the points are awarded? Do you have to get a certain GOE?

 

[muffinplus]

But it wasn’t about the PCS. Look at the base value and then and the GOE. It was GOE where Trusova was robbed. And the bonus points for Usacheva and Valieva’s spins, three each...

Well I think their non-jump elements (i.e. spins ) are honestly much better than Sasha's, so I do think they deserve higher GOE on it (yes, I know it's from the short program, but still just to show):

https://twitter.com/gwendalsflow/status/1315079777116545025

And, yeah, they have bonus points, but it's not like it's their fault they give them for flexibility...

I do think one element Trusova should have scored higher on was the 4toe-3toe combo. That was a +5 element and she even got some +3s on it, which was random.

And they were picky with Trusova's 3 flip, but didn't give any edge calls to Daria.

 

[muffinplus]

I know that they are awarded points for difficult elements, but what exactly is the breakdown of how the points are awarded? Do you have to get a certain GOE?

I think it's +1 on spins , but they also need to get +5 GOE or something like that.... actually might be wrong on the GOE part.

 

[Tinami Amori]

However, my Russian husband says that he remembers a TV cartoon in Soviet times in which snakes dance to Bolero. He’ll try to find on YouTube.

I was referring to this earlier. It is called "Bolero" and it meant to be "humor"...

Болеро - мультфильм.avi

www.youtube.com

There is also "Bolero" Snake in Ice Age Kids.

Мария Парамонова - "Bolero". Ледниковый период. Дети. Второй сезон. 02.06.2019

Полуфинал. Короткая программа. Музыкальная тема – "Классика". Спортсменка из команды Максима Транькова выступает под "Bolero" (David Garrett). Смотрите все в...

www.youtube.com

Even if there were no previous usage of "snake" in the Bolero performances, it is a very creative and well suited use of it for Valieva.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Based on Tarasova praising someone, you decided that they couldn’t have been overmarked? .

No, i mentioned that there were articles and pod-casts explaining the marks (by Russian rules with bonus points). And as a just one well-known "yell the truth" person, Tarasova's reactions were mentioned.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Just a reminder. Oct 13 @ 14:00 o'clock St. Petersburg time, Panin Memorial will start.
Some of the participants: Goubanova, Nugumanova, Onichenko, Ryabova (AZR), Saranovskaya, and more.
Live feed link is in the Russian Events in Kiss'n Cry.

 

[Skibean]

It seemed to me it was a clear push of Kamila and the judges doing what they could for her to ensure a win, but she couldn’t handle the pressure and didnt appear ready for the LP. Trusova deserved her win. The judges couldn’t prop Kamila up with that skate.

Daria seemed to be the most talented of the junior girls that competed. I felt she should’ve had silver. She may be the dark horse and spoil the Kamila push.

 

[hanca]

I think Valieva didn’t manage the pressure. I am wondering whether deep down she realised that she was getting undeserved marks and felt bad about it, and it messed up with her head, or whether the pressure of being first after the SP was too much. Saying that, how could she be under any pressure, when she was 10 points ahead of Trusova, I don’t know.

I hope the judges stop ‘helping’ their favourite skaters like they did this time with Valieva. I hate when someone is getting great marks even when they didn’t deserve it, and it turns me off the skater. I know it is not the skaters fault what marks they get, but the judges then just spoil for me the enjoyment of watching that particular skater. The same way I stopped enjoying watching Yuna Kim, because if she just skated around the board without doing any elements, the judges would still find a way to give her the marks to win it.

I think Usacheva should have placed above Valieva. But the judges clearly had their favourite.

 

[hanca]

Well I think their non-jump elements (i.e. spins ) are honestly much better than Sasha's, so I do think they deserve higher GOE on it (yes, I know it's from the short program, but still just to show):

https://twitter.com/gwendalsflow/status/1315079777116545025

And, yeah, they have bonus points, but it's not like it's their fault they give them for flexibility...

I do think one element Trusova should have scored higher on was the 4toe-3toe combo. That was a +5 element and she even got some +3s on it, which was random.

And they were picky with Trusova's 3 flip, but didn't give any edge calls to Daria.

Valieva and Usacheva may deserve higher GOE, but do they REALLY deserve ten points higher GOE?
Valieva has base value 33.01, but gets added 14.89 in GOE.
Usacheva has base value 32.95, and GOE 12.84.
Trusova has base value 36.24, and GOE only 4.57 points. Of course she should have lost points for the hand down on her triple axel, but surely her other elemenets were not that much behind Usacheva and Valieva. The rest of her program was clean.

also, the bonus points were not given to Valieva and Usacheva for their flexibility, they are given when the spin has only level 4 and 5. So suddenly some Trusova’s marks for spins get level 3 and therefore not getting the extra point, while Valieva and Usacheva get 3 points each extra (all their spins got bonus).

 

[Bellanca]

I hope the judges stop ‘helping’ their favourite skaters like they did this time with Valieva. I hate when someone is getting great marks even when they didn’t deserve it, and it turns me off the skater. I know it is not the skaters fault what marks they get, but the judges then just spoil for me the enjoyment of watching that particular skater.

Good luck with that. Judges have been engaging in favoritism scoring since the very beginning. I agree that it sucks six ways from Sunday. Unfortunately, I don't see this particular transgression ending anytime soon. It's just like when they decide to drop someone - you know it. Not so subtle, instead a pronounced "move on" message.

 

[muffinplus]

Valieva and Usacheva may deserve higher GOE, but do they REALLY deserve ten points higher GOE?
Valieva has base value 33.01, but gets added 14.89 in GOE.
Usacheva has base value 32.95, and GOE 12.84.
Trusova has base value 36.24, and GOE only 4.57 points. Of course she should have lost points for the hand down on her triple axel, but surely her other elemenets were not that much behind Usacheva and Valieva. The rest of her program was clean.

also, the bonus points were not given to Valieva and Usacheva for their flexibility, they are given when the spin has only level 4 and 5. So suddenly some Trusova’s marks for spins get level 3 and therefore not getting the extra point, while Valieva and Usacheva get 3 points each extra (all their spins got bonus).

OK, I stand corrected, the spin must be a Level 4, though I thought flexibility can contribute to spin difficulty and level. I really don't think any of Trusova's spins are really GOE of +4 or +5 though, but Valieva and Usacheva's do.

Also, Trusova lost -2.40 GOE on her triple axel fall, which contributed to GOE loss. She also had a lower level on the step sequence (I don't know if this was fair or not) and V on a spin (same, I don't know - maybe someone can chime in), which I believe reduced BV of both by a little. So if she landed the 3 axel the GOE diference would be cut down.

Usacheva's GOE was actually not 12.84. I think you are taking the final tech score (45.79) minus base value (34.60). But the final tech score included the 3 bonus points on spins. So really her GOE add on is 42.79-34.60 = 8.19

Valieva's GOE was 44.90-33.01 = 11.89 pts.

So it's really not a 10 point difference. It's more like 7 with Valieva and 3.5 with Usacheva. And that's with negative GOE she received on the 3 axel.

I mean, I fully agree Valieva was overscored on GOE on some elements and PCS. Usacheva not so much IMO, with the exception of her solo lutz, which really should have been given a call.

I rewatched Daria's short program, and it looked like she had the most impressive transitions out of the 3 into her elements - spiral with very little time going into combo, and her usual difficult entry into a double axel. So Usacheva should have won the short, but they were busy overscoring Valieva.

 

[Scott512]

of course..he didn't Trusova won. Shame on you!!!and Tinami and all of them who said or support this opinion! Trusova did an incredible amount of work, developed, improved a lot, she had to overcome the difficulties of puberty. Look at her!! A beautiful lady who has retained her athletic abilities in spite of that.With this opinion, you diminish her, the work she has done. Shame on you again!
I recommend you start getting used to the idea that your adored Eteri and her team will lose some competitions because yes, Kamila wasn't perfect, but Trusova wasn't either! She can also improve in the season, her base value is much higher.

You don't foget Trusova overcome the puberty, restored her jumps after that big pause because of the quaratine and those became better but Valieva is before puberty or in it.

Shame on who? And for what opinion? Evgeni didnt beat Eteri the same way Eteri never beats other coaches when her students win. Skaters always deserve the credit with some credit to the coach in this case Eteri.

Sasha is he same as before. Special and really good which is obvious. But mistake prone. When you do quads thats part of the deal. Same with Valieva. Doing quads is risk and reward. I still like Sasha. But lets see her win something big as a senior with say Anna and Aliona in the competition before we praise Plushenko too much. I'm thinking rusnats! But if Aliona beats Sasha the sparks will be flying bigtime at Plushneko Academy! Sasha is already annoyed that Aliona followed her to PA. Lets see how it all plays out. Sasha wont even work with Rozanov because he helped bring Aliona to PA and young Sergei was one of the reasons Sasha left Eteri.

Well done to Sasha on being ready for this unusual season. Credit to her as usual.

By the way Plushenko was my favoirite mens skater for over 10 years. He was the mens GOAT when he retired. But I dont like his act as a coach / recruiter / promiser to this point.

 

[Bigbird]

Shame on who? And for what opinion? Evgeni didnt beat Eteri the same way Eteri never beats other coaches when her students win. Skaters always deserve the credit with some credit to the coach in this case Eteri.

Sasha is he same as before. Special and really good which is obvious. But mistake prone. When you do quads thats part of the deal. Same with Valieva. Doing quads is risk and reward. I still like Sasha. But lets see her win something big as a senior with say Anna and Aliona in the competition before we praise Plushenko too much. I'm thinking rusnats! But if Aliona beats Sasha the sparks will be flying bigtime at Plushneko Academy! Sasha is already annoyed that Aliona followed her to PA. Lets see how it all plays out. Sasha wont even work with Rozanov because he helped bring Aliona to PA and young Sergei was one of the reasons Sasha left Eteri.

Well done to Sasha on being ready for this unusual season. Credit to her as usual.

By the way Plushenko was my favoirite mens skater for over 10 years. He was the mens GOAT when he retired. But I dont like his act as a coach / recruiter / promiser to this point.

He has way more impressive juniors coming up IMHO. This weekend was not that much of a big deal. If anything it was just great to see Sasha battle through the nerves. Aliona for me is much more impressive that Valieva and Trusova combined.

 

[alchemy void]

There is also "Bolero" Snake in Ice Age Kids.

Poor Gleikhengauz has run out of music, so now he is forced to branch out to "Ice Age Kids" for choreography inspiration.

Even if there were no previous usage of "snake" in the Bolero performances, it is a very creative and well suited use of it for Valieva.

Very interesting routine and choreo; love her costume and the whole concept of the programme.

 

[Maximillian]

And according to TAT, Aleksandr Zhulin had a surgery on his neck not so long ago, hence the neck brace.

If only ESTA were still around to claim that he hurt his neck from Usova riding around on his back all those years while he skated...

 

[Ka3sha]

Interview with Sofia Evdokimova about her injury and back surgery, retirement, difficulties she had to face after it and her thoughts and feelings on Egor teaming up with Liza Khudaberdieva

Софья Евдокимова: «Иногда вставала с утра в хорошем настроении, а иногда думала: «Ну и зачем я вообще проснулась?»

Софья Евдокимова – об операции на спине, завершении карьеры и самом тяжелом периоде в своей жизни.

www.sports.ru

 

[Immortelle]

Interview with Sofia Evdokimova about her injury and back surgery, retirement, difficulties she had to face after it and her thoughts and feelings on Egor teaming up with Liza Khudaberdieva

Софья Евдокимова: «Иногда вставала с утра в хорошем настроении, а иногда думала: «Ну и зачем я вообще проснулась?»

Софья Евдокимова – об операции на спине, завершении карьеры и самом тяжелом периоде в своей жизни.

www.sports.ru

Thanks for posting this. I know she wasn’t fashionable on the board but I’ve always had a soft spot for her ?

 

[lala]

Konstantinova was gifted compared to Frolova... that's what all say.

Judges were marking Valieva's and Usacheva's elements/components Level 4, their spins are excellent and that by Russian scoring system earns "reward points". Trusova's elements/components were not Level 4, and that was obvious. She also does not have excellent spins, and her "girly image" is very much out of character for her. She is strong and fast, and her jumps are solid, but she took risk with 3A and messed up the landing, and got flat edge call on the flip, and that sets as "fault" in judges' minds.

Tarasova who is no friend of Tutberidze (except for the show), was highly praising Valieva and Usacheva, and saying that Trusova skated "satisfactory/not bad at all". As we know, Tarasova has no problem yelling her opinion, if she thought Trusova was undermarked, she'd say it.... loudly...

Tarasova was disguting on the first day. I read many Russian figure skating fans' opinion. She had bad words on almost every skater and everybody except Tutberidze. So their bad relatioship is gone... Grishin tried to make her words more warm. And you know this. You understand her commentary.

 

[lala]

Shame on who? And for what opinion? Evgeni didnt beat Eteri the same way Eteri never beats other coaches when her students win. Skaters always deserve the credit with some credit to the coach in this case Eteri.

Sasha is he same as before. Special and really good which is obvious. But mistake prone. When you do quads thats part of the deal. Same with Valieva. Doing quads is risk and reward. I still like Sasha. But lets see her win something big as a senior with say Anna and Aliona in the competition before we praise Plushenko too much. I'm thinking rusnats! But if Aliona beats Sasha the sparks will be flying bigtime at Plushneko Academy! Sasha is already annoyed that Aliona followed her to PA. Lets see how it all plays out. Sasha wont even work with Rozanov because he helped bring Aliona to PA and young Sergei was one of the reasons Sasha left Eteri.

Well done to Sasha on being ready for this unusual season. Credit to her as usual.

By the way Plushenko was my favoirite mens skater for over 10 years. He was the mens GOAT when he retired. But I dont like his act as a coach / recruiter / promiser to this point.

Did you read I praised Plushenko too much? Read my post again. And read your previous post again what I reacted. But you don't denie what is obvious. You are reday to believe every stupid gossip wich can support your desire..you won't be happy.

 

[Ka3sha]

Russian Cup#3 in Sochi will be closed to the audience and will take place at the training rink

Третий этап Кубка России в Сочи пройдет без зрителей на тренировочном катке

Как стало известно «СЭ», соревнования в рамках третьего этапа Кубка России в олимпийской парке Адлера целиком пройдут без зрителей.

sport-express.ru

 

[Natanielle825]

What's crazy is that these Russian girls are competing like it's a normal world right now. Every other field in Russia is missing top competitors, and most other countries aren't competing at all. American skaters aren't going to train full out for Skate America with no promise of anything after that. The ISP challenge was nice but 100% devoid of pressure; I was biting my nails watching the end of this ladies FS. Virus or not, they all desperately want to be National champion this year. It's just hard to imagine being the only ones working that hard for (most-likely) an entirely cancelled international season.
Either way, I hate both coaches and everyone was overscored. Sasha looks mostly the same to me - she was born to jump quads, the lutz is inconsistent and on the wrong edge but still impressive, the toe is impressive, the fall on the combo was a fluke I'm sure, and the skating skills look exactly the same to me. The short is slightly better but the free looked really rushed and choppy, especially after Daria skated. I root for her because I admire her ambition. Daria was the clear PCS winner here. I really liked the short, she's a beautiful skater and has more facial expression than the other two. I hope we see a triple axel from her one day, and that she's strong enough to handle the pressure. Kamila I can't watch, she looks so miserable and I hope she leaves Tutberidze if not the sport and gets the chance to be a kid some day.
I am dreading the news of Evgenia's retirement. Has she said anything since going to the doctor?

 

[rfisher]

People who say Valieva "looks" miserable makes me cringe like everytime a woman is told to "smile." Maybe, just maybe she's a serious kid who doesn't smile for the camera and she wasn't happy about falling. Leave the kid alone. She had one bad comp. All these kids want to win and none of them like to lose. People read way too much into 1 minute of sitting in the KnC.

 

[taz'smum]

Russian Cup#3 in Sochi will be closed to the audience and will take place at the training rink

Третий этап Кубка России в Сочи пройдет без зрителей на тренировочном катке

Как стало известно «СЭ», соревнования в рамках третьего этапа Кубка России в олимпийской парке Адлера целиком пройдут без зрителей.

sport-express.ru

At least it is still going ahead!