From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

Status
Not open for further replies.

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
591
He has way more impressive juniors coming up IMHO. This weekend was not that much of a big deal. If anything it was just great to see Sasha battle through the nerves. Aliona for me is much more impressive that Valieva and Trusova combined.
"Way more" impressive juniors? Dont think so. Time will tell though. We dont even know if Evgeni can coach since Volkov coaches Sasha and Rozanov coaches Aliona. Zhilina already came to PA made. Just like Sasha and Aliona. Remember he did nothing with the talented Nastya T. :(

As for Kamila she is her own person but she has some of Super Sashas reaching for the stars quad qualities and some of Princess Alionas regal and beautiful skating.

We agree the event wasnt much of a big deal and how special Aliona is. I think she is the best ladies skater or was last season and she is the most beautiful skater in the world. :) But how do you consider she is much more impressive than Sasha and Kamila combined? Thats saying alot.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
591
People who say Valieva "looks" miserable makes me cringe like everytime a woman is told to "smile." Maybe, just maybe she's a serious kid who doesn't smile for the camera and she wasn't happy about falling. Leave the kid alone. She had one bad comp. All these kids want to win and none of them like to lose. People read way too much into 1 minute of sitting in the KnC.
Agreed.

You mean Sasha smiles when she struggles in her free skate and doesnt win gold? ;) I didnt think so.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
591
Did you read I praised Plushenko too much? Read my post again. ;) And read your previous post again what I reacted. But you don't denie what is obvious. You are reday to believe every stupid gossip wich can support your desire..you won't be happy.
There will ne no gossip in this post.

I like Sasha and Aliona who I consider the mot beautiful ladies skater since Sasha Cohen.

As for Plushenko let him earn his praise. Thats all I ask Lala.

He has been handed super talented girls made by another coach. Lets see what Evgeni and his team do with these great girls. As soon as they start winning a lot I will recognize that and post accordingly and offer praise accordingly. Fair enough?
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
591
Tarasova was disguting on the first day. I read many Russian figure skating fans' opinion. She had bad words on almost every skater and everybody except Tutberidze. So their bad relatioship is gone... Grishin tried to make her words more warm. And you know this.;) You understand her commentary.
Why do they still have TAT as the #1 analyst with people complaining about her for years? She is notorious for being tough on girls that are not reed thin. :eek:
 

ChiquitaBanana

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,034
Daria is a wonderful skater and indeed, should receive the highest PCS but...she do not have (yet) the IT factor as Trusova or Valieva has. Daria reminds me a bit about a young Medvedeva so she might blossom in a few years or so. Everything looks very precise technically wise so I am interested to know if she is training a quad or 3A at this point.
Valieva is a great skater too but I just cannot enjoy all the leg in the air positions. Obviously, she is one of the most (or the most) flexible skater on the circuit right now but just as Liptniskaia at the same age, I hope she works more on feeling the music. Daria seemed to be much more into her music and I do not mind the choregraphy.

I admire Trusova for the fighter she is and fantastic to see her in such good shape after her growspurt. I agree it remains to be seen if she will improve under Pluschenko but so far, she is looking very sharp. The SP is showing a more different part of her skating and I like it a lot. The LP will always be less impressive due to all the quads she has to squeeze in. I hope she will keep the program to max 3 quads and work on the other aspects but who knows, perhaps she needs to attempt another one if someone like Valieva, Scherbakova or Kostornaia skates clean with their jump elements.

The Russian cup brings more excitement than the upcoming GP??!!
What's crazy is that these Russian girls are competing like it's a normal world right now. Every other field in Russia is missing top competitors, and most other countries aren't competing at all. American skaters aren't going to train full out for Skate America with no promise of anything after that. The ISP challenge was nice but 100% devoid of pressure; I was biting my nails watching the end of this ladies FS. ***** or not, they all desperately want to be National champion this year. It's just hard to imagine being the only ones working that hard for (most-likely) an entirely cancelled international season.
Either way, I hate both coaches and everyone was overscored. Sasha looks mostly the same to me - she was born to jump quads, the lutz is inconsistent and on the wrong edge but still impressive, the toe is impressive, the fall on the combo was a fluke I'm sure, and the skating skills look exactly the same to me. The short is slightly better but the free looked really rushed and choppy, especially after Daria skated. I root for her because I admire her ambition. Daria was the clear PCS winner here. I really liked the short, she's a beautiful skater and has more facial expression than the other two. I hope we see a triple axel from her one day, and that she's strong enough to handle the pressure. Kamila I can't watch, she looks so miserable and I hope she leaves Tutberidze if not the sport and gets the chance to be a kid some day.
I am dreading the news of Evgenia's retirement. Has she said anything since going to the doctor?


Sashàs lutz have improved and are now perfectly on an outside edge. I cringe at Usacheva’s flutz and Valieva’s « toe-loop » jumps as her flip and lutz...
 

kwanatic

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,759
Congrats to Sasha! She really doesn't look like she's lost a step. The rotation on the 3A is there--she's always backwards...before she falls I mean. Eventually she'll nail it. I see improvements in her delivery of the choreography. The changes are slight but she's taking a little more time with the movements rather than just tossing them away. She needs to keep working on that as well as the skating skills. Next to Kamila, Daria and several others it's very clear Sasha's spins are lacking. She loses several points there because she doesn't earn the GOE. There may not be a ton they can do to improve her spins as she lacks that flexibility but the least they can do is make sure to max the levels on those and her steps. Still, Sasha's making progress and it's good to see. Congrats to her again.

Kamila should have been 3rd--it was close but the edge should have gone to Daria. Everyone was over-scored (Sasha included) but I think Kamila's scores in the SP were flat out ridiculous. I understand it's a domestic competition but come on... I wish someone would work with Kamila on emoting and feeling the music/choreo. Her natural grace and beautiful lines distract from it somewhat but she always looks scared/nervous/sad or just deadpan to me when she skates. Maybe that's just her face, like some people who have a resting b*tchface...but if it is she needs to make a concerted effort to adjust her expression when she's performing. She doesn't have to smile but it'd be nice if she didn't always look like something is about to jump out at her.

Kamila always seems to eat it on that first quad in the FS. It's a pattern: she crashes and burns on the first one and then nails the second. They need to find a way to break that habit. The pressure seemed to get to her here. It was clear the judges were trying to hand her a win but she couldn't take it. Hopefully she'll learn from this. On a final note, I'd like to slap whoever styled her this season. Both dresses are terrible. They put a skater with the best leg lines in the field in a dress that cuts at the knee, destroying her lines. So stupid... Apparently she's a snake in the FS (whatever.) but they didn't have to be so literal with the costuming. It's fugly.

Daria should have come in second. She delivered in both programs and should have been given the nod over Kamila who was a bit of a mess in the FS. It could have been just as close but the results should have gone the other way. Daria lacks the wow factor Sasha and Kamila have but she was clean. She gave more feeling/performance in her program that Kamila and she nailed her elements. Definitely robbed of silver here.
 
Last edited:

Cherub721

YEAH!
Messages
17,515
I think it's +1 on spins , but they also need to get +5 GOE or something like that.... actually might be wrong on the GOE part.

I can see how this could cause the scores for preferred skaters to run away: judges know you need high GOE to get the bonus, so they go over the top with GOE, which triggers the bonus, and suddenly they're way ahead. But if it gets Trusova to work on her spins, maybe it's not a bad thing.

Even if there were no previous usage of "snake" in the Bolero performances, it is a very creative and well suited use of it for Valieva.

Alexander Abt, the year he won his first and only Russian title. Underrated program!
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,157

anonymoose_au

Well-Known Member
Messages
202
Tutberidze came up with the idea of "snake" for the dress and programme.

Geeze don't quit your day job, Eteri, that dress is hideous. Poor Kamila having to wear it!
 

Natanielle825

Well-Known Member
Messages
214
People who say Valieva "looks" miserable makes me cringe like everytime a woman is told to "smile." Maybe, just maybe she's a serious kid who doesn't smile for the camera and she wasn't happy about falling. Leave the kid alone. She had one bad comp. All these kids want to win and none of them like to lose. People read way too much into 1 minute of sitting in the KnC.
I understand why you feel that way but let me explain it from my perspective. I am not a man who feels women should be amiable and entertaining. I am a woman who feels children should be happy and carefree. I am emotionally incapable of enjoying what I believe is a culture of child exploitation. Kamila is by far not the only victim of this in figure skating but on the topic of Russian ladies to me she is the most obvious. I don't know her and maybe I'm wrong. But a critical part of childhood development is learning how to smile, which comes only from being smiled at by the people around you. Babies smile to encourage others to take care of them, but will stop smiling if neglected because they stop expecting to be taken care of. It is not that she cried after her skate, and that fact that she fell at all is completely irrelevant. It is that BEFORE she skates and often after times she's skated perfectly, she still does not smile. It is normal to cry if you fall but also normal to smile if you do not. The fact that an audience full of smiling cheering people does appear to give her any joy or even trigger an automatic performance-smile is a red flag to me as far as far as being genuinely concerned about the welfare of children in a sport I care about. When I began experiencing abuse and depression as a teenager I went about my life as normal but completely lost the ability to smile. Adults called me "serious" and "left me alone" and I wish they hadn't.
I am extremely critical of the techniques all the top coaches are using to produce results, and I doubt there's an Olympic training site in the world I wouldn't as a social worker feel violated ethical treatment of children. I cannot ignore it when I see it even if everyone involved looks good on camera. I do not think the Olympics are worth the lives of all the children that literally die trying to get there. The culture can ONLY be challenged by reading into it, not ignoring it.
 
Last edited:

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,476
Update on Victoria Sinitsina from TASS journalist
She couldn't resume training after the weekend, the guys asked German doctors for the consultation (I assume it's the same clinic where Stepanova and Aliev went earlier this year), are cooperating with Russian doctors.. Zhulin says they don't know what will happen now, the situation is uncertain.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,306
Update on Victoria Sinitsina from TASS journalist
She couldn't resume training after the weekend, the guys asked German doctors for the consultation (I assume it's the same clinic where Stepanova and Aliev went earlier this year), are cooperating with Russian doctors.. Zhulin says they don't know what will happen now, the situation is uncertain.

Poor girl. Why would she choose to and why would Zhulin even more so as their coach, agree to her even trying to skate in such a condition? Zhulin and Katsalapv were praising her left and right for being so obedient and wise and neither of them were looking out for Vika's interests. I pray that she draws the right conclusions after she recovers from this injury.
 

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,476
I personally thought, based on the replay, that Nikita was the one who stopped the program or at least eager to do so so I don't know that it's fair to pull him into this. Zhulin on the other hand...
And Nikita hasn't completely recovered from his back injury either. They started training lifts just two weeks prior to the RC#2. It would have been better for both of them to take time and recover.

To me it's the Fed we should blame in this situation - and not just with S/K but with all the injured skaters who has to compete in order to qualify to Nationals. Samarin had only 3-4 practices in between the test skates and Moscow event, he couldn't land any quads and yet they 'encouraged' him to compete there. And then we add Morozov and Gallyamov who got YKW. And the list goes on and on...

I totally understand why the Fed wanted their top skaters to compete at Russian Cup events (tickets, broadcasting and all) and am glad they gave the skaters this opportunity, but making them risk their health is not a choice. I truly believe they could have made an exception for national team members and let them compete at Nationals without doing two RC events instead of risking their top athletes' health for some ghostly competitions that may not even happen this season.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,087
To me it's the Fed we should blame in this situation - and not just with S/K but with all the injured skaters who has to compete in order to qualify to Nationals. Samarin had only 3-4 practices in between the test skates and Moscow event, he couldn't land any quads and yet they 'encouraged' him to compete there. And then we add Morozov and Gallyamov who got YKW. And the list goes on and on...

I totally understand why the Fed wanted their top skaters to compete at Russian Cup events (tickets, broadcasting and all) and am glad they gave the skaters this opportunity, but making them risk their health is not a choice. I truly believe they could have made an exception for national team members and let them compete at Nationals without doing two RC events instead of risking their top athletes' health for some ghostly competitions that may not even happen this season.
You seem to be so keen to blame the federation, but it is not that much different than in other years. EVERY YEAR the skaters have to compete to qualify to the nationals, no matter whether they compete at the GP events or in Russian cups. It is no different than in other countries - in the USA, Canada, Japan and most other skating countries the skaters qualify to their nationals through competing at various competitions, so why this year you would expect it any different? The federation did not make any skater compete injured. Like every year, if you are injured, you may have to miss the nationals or they might allow you compete at the nationals without qualifying. I don’t see any reason why they should be making exceptions for all the members of the national team; it is not as if the members of the national team had that many opportunities to compete anywhere else. In fact, this year the skaters are likely to attend less competitions than any other year and yet you pretend as if the federation was imposing a huge burden on them. As if they are imposing so many competitions that they are risking their health. In reality, it is not the federation risking their health. If the athletes decide to compete injured, that’s entirely their choice and they will live with the consequences.
 

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,476
Well:
1. 2020 is not like any other year.
2. Even of we are talking about regular seasons, it’s enough to skate at 1 GP event to get a bye to Nats (or even just skate a SP and then withdraw like Kovtun did in 2017/18)
3. I am not saying the athletes themselves/coaches are completely innocent, definitely no - they are adults (mostly) and have their own heads on their shoulders. But it’s the Fed who put them in this position, when they have to choose between skating injured and risking not qualifying to Nationals.
This mess was evident for everyone from the day they announced these ‘qualifying to Nationals’ rules.
 
Last edited:

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
520
You seem to be so keen to blame the federation, but it is not that much different than in other years. EVERY YEAR the skaters have to compete to qualify to the nationals, no matter whether they compete at the GP events or in Russian cups. It is no different than in other countries - in the USA, Canada, Japan and most other skating countries the skaters qualify to their nationals through competing at various competitions, so why this year you would expect it any different? The federation did not make any skater compete injured. Like every year, if you are injured, you may have to miss the nationals or they might allow you compete at the nationals without qualifying. I don’t see any reason why they should be making exceptions for all the members of the national team; it is not as if the members of the national team had that many opportunities to compete anywhere else. In fact, this year the skaters are likely to attend less competitions than any other year and yet you pretend as if the federation was imposing a huge burden on them. As if they are imposing so many competitions that they are risking their health. In reality, it is not the federation risking their health. If the athletes decide to compete injured, that’s entirely their choice and they will live with the consequences.
Other federations tend to be more flexible with their top teams, the USFS, if I remember correctly most of their top skaters already have a guaranteed spot for US championships so a team like Chock/Bates can take the time and recover without doing any of the ISP points events or even Skate America and still compete at US Championships. The Japanese federation allowed Shoma, Rika, and Satoko to stay put where they train and not attend competitions in Japan in order not to risk them.
But even if it wasn't the case, this is anything but a normal season. For the most part, Russian skaters are competing within themselves and will probably do so for most if not this entire season. S/K are European champions and the only team to challenge P/C since V/M and P/C haven't skated so far this season and with how YKW is spreading in France I doubt IDF is even going to happen so why even push S/K? There's no momentum to gain, no teams to really compete with, and even if we consider their internal competition with S/B, the judges already showed they favor S/K. So if the federation allowed S/K to simply show up for Russian nationals at the end of December what is the damage here?
And it's 100% the federation risking the skaters' health if they are the ones pushing them to compete while injured, (especially if the skaters are young), if you think asking the skaters to risk losing what they've been working towards for years because they didn't do what the federation told them, very few of them will risk it and more are likely to risk their health. It's a choice the skaters are making but it's basically like saying that I made a choice to do something when you asked me to do it while holding a metaphorical gun to my head.
 

lala

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,812
There will ne no gossip in this post.

I like Sasha and Aliona who I consider the mot beautiful ladies skater since Sasha Cohen.

As for Plushenko let him earn his praise. Thats all I ask Lala.

He has been handed super talented girls made by another coach. Lets see what Evgeni and his team do with these great girls. As soon as they start winning a lot I will recognize that and post accordingly and offer praise accordingly. Fair enough?

Plushenko haters and Eteri fans forgot that Eteri receives the most talented girls from all over Russia. She rised only Medvedeva from her childhood if I'm not mistaken. If her pupils can't do a triple she kicks out from her school. She did it with Scherbakova who learned the 3Lz from other coaches, her parents payed for it. Probably you know it. And according to Panenkova if they had a bad day and couldn't do some elements they were sent to the little skater's group for example Arseny Fedotov's group who was 9-10. y.o then. How humiliating! "Practising, if you can do it again you can come back"

I don't say Eteri is not a professional and the best coach right now but you don't denie what is obvious.

You can be sure Trusova will beat everybody in this season and that won't be only Eteri's merit solely, but all of her previous coaches and Plushenko's merit, too. I really believe if trusova would be worse that will be the work of the results of Plushenko's bad coaching. So you are ridiculous.

For me that is also ridiculous Lambiel also receives some really good skaters he has no self-educated skater and that is no problem for those who has bad words on Plushenko because of this situation.

sofia titova and her coaches https://www.instagram.com/p/CGSlOfSKbVx/ ❤️

the new ice-rink https://www.instagram.com/p/CGSg2JUK_hy/
 
Last edited:

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
12,087
Well, what difference does it make that it is different year than any other year? Bottom line is, the federation should be choosing the best to qualify for the nationals. In ladies the order changes so dramatically that one year someone is in the national team and the following year they may place in the middle of the pack or even at the bottom and miss the national team. In fact, the years where skaters qualified through attending their GP event, at times it was extremely unfair. For example, Sotskova, Tsurskaya and Pogorilaya in their last seasons scored a very, very low score at their GP event (some of them even around 150) and yet they qualified to the nationals, whereas others with much higher scores at Russian cups missed qualification. I am glad that for once all skaters are treated the same and no preferential treatment.
 

michalle

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,837
I shouldn't let this bug me so much, but it does, so if you look from 18:10 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbs06YW6CRo, I think you can see that Nikita turns his head to look at Vika and then stops skating, at least that's how it appears to me. So I thought he did a good job in that context.

In general, from reading a lot of interviews with Russian skaters, I feel like there may be a cultural issue with the idea of "overcoming yourself." I'm not sure my understanding of that phrase is complete and I don't think it applies to injuries only but that's one place I think I've seen it come up. It's hard, because skaters do deal with a lot of minor and nagging injuries so I understand why in the skating world, people may see skating with pain as somewhat normal, but it feels like maybe there isn't always as strong a sense of the distinction between that and something more serious that needs to be handled a different way. And really as I think about it more, I don't think that's a Russian problem only either, it seems to be widespread throughout the sport.
 

syzygy

Well-Known Member
Messages
173
I shouldn't let this bug me so much, but it does, so if you look from 18:10 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbs06YW6CRo, I think you can see that Nikita turns his head to look at Vika and then stops skating, at least that's how it appears to me. So I thought he did a good job in that context.

In general, from reading a lot of interviews with Russian skaters, I feel like there may be a cultural issue with the idea of "overcoming yourself." I'm not sure my understanding of that phrase is complete and I don't think it applies to injuries only but that's one place I think I've seen it come up. It's hard, because skaters do deal with a lot of minor and nagging injuries so I understand why in the skating world, people may see skating with pain as somewhat normal, but it feels like maybe there isn't always as strong a sense of the distinction between that and something more serious that needs to be handled a different way. And really as I think about it more, I don't think that's a Russian problem only either, it seems to be widespread throughout the sport.
I have noticed this through the whole sport (and most other sports too). I had a friend who didn't go into physical therapy until it was almost too late because she didn't see her pain as a problem until she was unable to skate through it. Thankfully PT fixed it and she didn't have to stop skating, but I've seen other people never get back to where they were before injury because they didn't catch it soon enough :(

Personally it's hard for me to decide if the pain I am experiencing is something I should get off the ice for or to just push through it because there's always a competition or a test coming up. I'm sure that's even more true when you're the top in your country and in the world. You never know whether you'll be okay skating through pain until you know you weren't okay and it starts to hurt more, but you can't just stop skating every time something hurts, then you'd never be able to train.
 

karmena

Well-Known Member
Messages
154
Plushenko haters and Eteri fans forgot that Eteri receives the most talented girls from all over Russia. She rised only Medvedeva from her childhood if I'm not mistaken. If her pupils can't do a triple she kicks out from her school. She did it with Scherbakova who learned the 3Lz from other coaches, her parents payed for it. Probably you know it. And according to Panenkova if they had a bad day and couldn't do some elements they were sent to the little skater's group for example Arseny Fedotov's group who was 9-10. y.o then. How humiliating! "Practising, if you can do it again you can come back"

I don't say Eteri is not a professional and the best coach right now but you don't denie what is obvious.

You can be sure Trusova will beat everybody in this season and that won't be only Eteri's merit solely, but all of her previous coaches and Plushenko's merit, too. I really believe if trusova would be worse that will be the work of the results of Plushenko's bad coaching. So you are ridiculous.

For me that is also ridiculous Lambiel also receives some really good skaters he has no self-educated skater and that is no problem for those who has bad words on Plushenko because of this situation.

sofia titova and her coaches https://www.instagram.com/p/CGSlOfSKbVx/ ❤️

the new ice-rink https://www.instagram.com/p/CGSg2JUK_hy/

Well said, lala! Thank you!

There, unfortunately, are particular people who move from the forum to forum and not because of love of figure skating, no. It is done just in order for a particular agenda, not for constructive discussions.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,157
Plushenko haters and Eteri fans forgot that Eteri receives the most talented girls from all over Russia.
Pluschenko has done a lot to earn disregard of many fans and turn them into haters. He can't stay even few days without limelight and a havoc around his persona. As of yesterday he is fighting via social media with the director of Sambo-70 and Yagudin yet again. He starts fights with other members of Russian FS on weekly basis, he is aggressive and acts pathetic just to keep attention on himself. Those fans who supported him vs. Yagudin for many years, are now turning away from him.

Eteri takes young skater, who on their own free will, come to her (from Moscow and other parts of Russia). When they come to her she does not guarantee that a) she'll accept them into her group, b) that they will pass the several weeks worth of trial period.

She has not ever INITIATED any messages or invitations to these skaters.

She also enquires for reasons why they left previous coaches, and check that there is no conflict involved.

And, most skaters come to her BEFORE they become famous and well awarded.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information