Ashley Wagner reveals she was assaulted by John Coughlin

[AxelAnnie]

You sure have a lot of awful opinions.

One day, people (hopefully you) are going to realize that not everyone is the same and not everyone can deal with things in the same manner.

I do realize everyone is in a different place, and people deal with things differently.

However, lauding someone's courage for not disclosing when it mattered, misses a point.

To see courage, Watch the Heart of Gold. Those girls and women stepped up because they cared about the girls who would come behind them, or those who thought the molestation / harrasment was their fault.

 

[PRlady]

I thought it at the time and I still think Sappenfield knew very well what happened in the past and was way more afraid she was going to be caught up in a lawsuit. She was trying to set up a defensive parameter.

Agreed. Panicked because she knew about some of this, didn't speak out or take Coughlin to law enforcement, and if she's liable for enabling it I hope she loses her license and serves some time, although that's very unlikely.

More and more I believe those who have posted just how negligent USFS is and has been on this issue. In a sport with young, attractive people thrown together all the time without a team to protect them, lots of unsupervised time outside the home rink/city, and lots of kids pretending to be older so they can sell mature programs (and yes, psychologically I think that's a factor) their organizational behavior is shameful.

 

[Coco]

I believe that it happened. I also think it could have been misinterpreted signals.

I appreciate the point you are trying to make. As others have noted, John was not a teenager.

As for mixed signals, no reasonable, law abiding man in his early twenties could interpret a teenage girl going to bed by herself as an invitation for a make out session. Full stop.

The need to find a compromise position when confronted with facts that reveal a seemingly nice guy to be a criminal is very powerful.

But think it through, there is nothing that could of happened prior to her going to bed by herself that could allow a reasonable guy in his early twenties to think that was ok.

I admire her for speaking out.

 

[twizzletoes76]

So..Ashley gets it off her chest when John cannot refute her story. I do not call that brave. By not reporting it....she left John free to go do it to someone else. I find that cowardly and self serving.. Kind of like the big named stars who leftvWeinstein free to
prey on others.

AxelAnnie, that is a blatantly insensitive comment. I think it is wonderful that Ashley just chose to tell her story and especially that she could do so in her own words. What you say here is a mis-reading of what she describes. Ashley is very clear in stating how at 17 she had no awareness of the type of ideas currently espoused by the “MeToo Movement” and, as a teenager, simply didn’t know how to interpret the actions she describes John making as abuse. I also don’t think there is a female alive whose never experienced something uncomfortable, awkward, or out right unwanted in terms of advances when young but it was only at a later date and in hindsight that that person then realizes there might have been someone they could have reported the incident to. Ashley’s account sounds believable and honest and, in a way her reaction seems typical of what I’d expect most teenagers to do in similar situations: she was able to tell John to stop when she could and did confide in a couple of people she knew about the incident. At that age and time, I don’t think we should have expected her to do much more.

 

[Habs]

I stumbled across a bunch of Twitter comments about the USA Today story. I decided to delete my Twitter account - it is a cesspool of the worst of humanity. WTF is wrong with people?

 

[MsZem]

However, lauding someone's courage for not disclosing when it mattered, misses a point.

It's courageous because she's sharing one of the worst things that ever happened to her, and she's doing it publicly - knowing that some people will still choose not to believe her, or to complain about her timing.

Ashley did not choose to be sexually assaulted when she was a teenage girl. She could not control John Coughlin's actions. She can control when and how she wants to share her story. And this was her choice: to come forward when she felt safe enough, strong enough, and able to make a difference. She deserves to be lauded.

 

[clairecloutier]

I stumbled across a bunch of Twitter comments about the USA Today story. I decided to delete my Twitter account - it is a cesspool of the worst of humanity. WTF is wrong with people?

Some of the comments I've seen on Twitter in regard to the Coughlin case are among the worst I've ever seen, period, on any subject. And a lot of my Twitter use is around politics, so it's something that the Coughlin tweets have been worse than a lot of political stuff.

 

[MsZem]

I stumbled across a bunch of Twitter comments about the USA Today story. I decided to delete my Twitter account - it is a cesspool of the worst of humanity. WTF is wrong with people?

My approach is to follow very few people who are interesting and not jerks. Another good person to follow is Yashar Ali, whose Twitter feed is pretty much the antidote to every type of social media ugliness.

 

[UGG]

I stumbled across a bunch of Twitter comments about the USA Today story. I decided to delete my Twitter account - it is a cesspool of the worst of humanity. WTF is wrong with people?

I was just coming here to write the same. I cannot even believe the people who are saying this was not an assault because he stopped when she said to. Like WTF so wandering in the room of a sleeping teenager and fondling her just to see how she will react is ok?!?!

 

[Tavi]

I do realize everyone is in a different place, and people deal with things differently.

However, lauding someone's courage for not disclosing when it mattered, misses a point.

To see courage, Watch the Heart of Gold. Those girls and women stepped up because they cared about the girls who would come behind them, or those who thought the molestation / harrasment was their fault.

Why would you assume that Ashley’s coming forward now doesn’t matter? Like Aly Raisman, she is a high profile athlete in her sport who appears to be committed to changing USFS culture to protect future young athletes. I think that matters enormously.

In the article, Ashley herself said she struggled to understand that what happened to her was wrong, was abuse. What she said was:

“I didn’t really genuinely process what this was until the start of the #MeToo movement,” she said. “Hearing other women come forward with their stories, it kind of made me reflect on this experience in a completely different manner. I had always felt violated but something within that movement really showed me that I was violated and I did have my safety and comfort taken away from me that night.“

That is exactly how many of the victims of Larry Nassar felt.

And just as a reminder, coming forward is not a guarantee that the abuse will stop. Larry Nassar was reported to USA Gymnastics and Michigan State many times before action was taken, and because of those delays, young women continued to be abused.

 

[PRlady]

Some of the comments I've seen on Twitter in regard to the Coughlin case are among the worst I've ever seen, period, on any subject. And a lot of my Twitter use is around politics, so it's something that the Coughlin tweets have been worse than a lot of political stuff.

I'm a big Twitter user too, as you know, mostly on politics. I've noticed that anything MeToo brings out enraged Men's Rights Activists types who are basically rape apologists, and they're mean and evil as anything I've ever seen.

ETA: Agree with zemgirl on Yashar Ali, in addition to humane approach to politics and other issues, you get the best elephant videos ever.

 

[Frau Muller]

Thank you for daring to speak up, Ashley Wagner. The “cover-up meisters” of FSU & USFS can go jump in a lake.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Oh Dear God, I just saw this thread title and gasped. I havent read a single post yet...dont know if I can...

Just Monday I was reading about how Simone Biles, too, was also one of Larry's many victims...

Blessings to all the victims in the world.

 

[wickedwitch]

I thought it at the time and I still think Sappenfield knew very well what happened in the past and was way more afraid she was going to be caught up in a lawsuit. She was trying to set up a defensive parameter.

She certainly enables the system that results in pre-teens being vulnerable to people many years older than them. For a while she was the worst offender in pairing 12 year old girls with 20 year old guys. She's not quite as bad any more, probably because she's learned it never leads to long term skating success. But I genuinely didn't think she knew the truth about John. My initial read was that Sappenfield went mad with grief. (Which wouldn't excuse her actions.)

But weeks or even month later, when the grief has "settled" for lack of a better term, why wouldn't she and Christine Fowler-Binder and anyone else who shamed the victims apologize? Say regardless of John's guilt, our actions could make future victims less willing to come forward and that's not okay.

Plus, Sappenfield knew Bridget personally. I have this memory burned into my brain of her hugging Bridget when Bridget was injured in the summer of 2006. (Not that it should matter in an ideal world, but it's understandable why it's easier to believe an accusation with a name behind it then one without.)

 

[caseyedwards]

First and foremost, Ashley sharing her story is so courageous and it's wonderful that she's adding action to words and actively working to protect the next generation of skaters.

As a secondary side note, I'm curious how skaters/others in the skating community who previously defended and posted lengthy tributes to him will respond, if at all. It's so hard to reconcile someone we knew and loved as having been abusive. Ashley's point about people being/seeming "nice" and "doing all the right things" still having the capacity to be abusive is so important to make note of. The reason so many people get away with it is because they present so well publicly. I think it would be especially important/impactful for those people to acknowledge that.

People should be like “well I’m glad he’s dead now! Very happy. Glad he killed himself”?

I mean Coughlin is dead!

Once again he can’t defend himself at all.

He was banned from talking to the press by safesport and while he could defend himself within the safeport he couldn’t outside of it.

People can say anything they want about the dead.

 

[BittyBug]

My approach is to follow very few people who are interesting and not jerks. Another good person to follow is Yashar Ali, whose Twitter feed is pretty much the antidote to every type of social media ugliness.

Try @RabihAlameddine - art and poetry with the occasional pet photo.

As for US Figure Skating culpability - I think Ashley hit the nail on the head when she talked about power imbalance. It's a judged sport so people tend to go along to try to get along because they fear backlash.

 

[tony]

People should be like “well I’m glad he’s dead now! Very happy. Glad he killed himself”?

I mean Coughlin is dead!

Once again he can’t defend himself at all.

He was banned from talking to the press by safesport and while he could defend himself within the safeport he couldn’t outside of it.

People can say anything they want about the dead.

Not to restart this argument, but he was free to talk about whatever he wanted- he said he had no idea what the allegations were but somehow the rest of his camp did and his agent/her husband knew exactly who to go target following his death.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

It’s crazy how so many lept to defend him. He was a mediocre skater and when he retired he was either a mediocre coach or he coached mediocre skaters.

Thats what I always said and thought.. At Nationals I was like... "Delilah, pipe down. Just because you knew him one way doesn't mean he was like that with others. And lastly, get rid of those disrespectful hats."

It reminds me of when some people said... "Clift Huxtable could never be a rapist."

 

[once_upon]

I have no doubt that Sappenfield knew what was going on in her camp.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I didn't say it was her fault. John is absolutely to blame.

MIXED signals?

What in the world are you talking about??

John= adult

Ashley in 2008 = child.

Mixed signals? Not today! or any day.

climbing into an unconscious persons bed ...mixed signals?

 

[skatesindreams]

I hope the US Figure Skating listened to Ashley and is implementing her suggestions, as well as those of experts in preventing a culture of sexual grooming and abuse.

Absolutely!

 

[zebraswan]

People should be like “well I’m glad he’s dead now! Very happy. Glad he killed himself”?

I mean Coughlin is dead!

Once again he can’t defend himself at all.

He was banned from talking to the press by safesport and while he could defend himself within the safeport he couldn’t outside of it.

People can say anything they want about the dead.

If you live an honorable life and don't go around abusing other people, then nobody is going to accuse you of such things when you're dead. Case in point: Denis Ten. And if you want to stick around to defend yourself, then don't commit suicide.

Nobody who spoke out has anything to gain from false accusations. Ask yourself why so many women would want to smear the reputation of a "good man," either dead or alive, while making themselves targets for more online harassment.

 

[MK's Winter]

People should be like “well I’m glad he’s dead now! Very happy. Glad he killed himself”?

I mean Coughlin is dead!

Once again he can’t defend himself at all.

He was banned from talking to the press by safesport and while he could defend himself within the safeport he couldn’t outside of it.

People can say anything they want about the dead.

He was never banned from speaking out. He was never stopped from requesting a hearing either. Coughlin is dead by his own hand. That is no one’s fault but his own. He made a choice. No one should have to remain silent because of that choice. Ashley is the 2nd to come forward publicly. If you take the Safe Sport complaints into account (prior to his suicide) Ashley is the fourth. That’s a pattern son.

 

[caseyedwards]

He was never banned from speaking out. He was never stopped from requesting a hearing either. Coughlin is dead by his own hand. That is no one’s fault but his own. He made a choice. No one should have to remain silent because of that choice. Ashley is the 2nd to come forward publicly. If you take the Safe Sport complaints into account (prior to his suicide) Ashley is the fourth. That’s a pattern son.

He could request a hearing but he was banned from speaking in the press

 

[Spiralgraph]

I'm very saddened by all this. That Ashley had to endure the assault for years without saying anything except to a trusted few, until now. That she will be the focus of intense criticism from the internet hate spreaders. That TPTB turn a blind eye. I wonder why I follow sports at all. The real world is messed up and sports is just as screwed up at times too.

 

[rustymuffins]

* edited to remove deleted content*

Just stop posting in this thread. Thanks.

 

[ZilphaK]

I stumbled across a bunch of Twitter comments about the USA Today story. I decided to delete my Twitter account - it is a cesspool of the worst of humanity. WTF is wrong with people?

I have a Twitter account called Hockey Concussion News (I was on vacation recently, so little activity lately), BUT I have learned to have a very thick skin while attacking the sacred rite of children engaging in ritual violence and calling it "sport" (yeah, I'm using hyperbole here, but kind of not), and I've had to block a bunch of accounts that I felt were close to threatening harm, even though I'm pretty anonymous. It really is a frightening place.

 

[caseyedwards]

Just stop posting in this thread. Thanks.

No

 

[Mayra]

I do realize everyone is in a different place, and people deal with things differently.

However, lauding someone's courage for not disclosing when it mattered, misses a point.

To see courage, Watch the Heart of Gold. Those girls and women stepped up because they cared about the girls who would come behind them, or those who thought the molestation / harrasment was their fault.

If you saw "At the Heart of Gold" and are still trying to sell this argument than you clearly missed the point and saw an entirely different documentary than I did.

You do realize that the case that brought forth the hundreds of allegations against Nassar was that of Rachel Denhollander, who came forward publicly 16 years after she was first assaulted by Larry Nassar? Prior to Rachel coming forward, many others had done the same and the accusations went nowhere. The culture of being assaulted and reporting that assault, is very harrowing and whether someone does it the day of, the next day or 16 years later, it is no easy task. The burden of proof is on them and often times the backlash is swift and can be just as damaging as the original assault. Courage comes in many forms and at different times.

As a 17 year old, Ashley Wagner was a scared teenager, unsure of herself and of a sporting institution full of powerful people who could dismiss you just as easily as they held you up during the fluff piece of the week. As a 28 year old woman, Ashley is a woman who has the strength and courage to say, this happened to me. This happened to me as a teenager, and as an adult I realized that this was not ok. It was assault and I don't want anyone else going through what I did. I want to help bring the change that allows another scared 17 year old to come forward without fear. Call it courage or bravery or whatever you want. I just want to say thank you to Ashley for coming forward in such a public way and helping to open dialogue in a sport not known for it's openness. Ditto Bridget Namitoka.

 

[MacMadame]

Ashely has been an outlier in figure skating for speaking out on basic issues which people much older than her didn't have the guts to address, from gender expectations ("shut up and be the pretty princess) to LGBTQ rights to questionable judging.

And even she, an outspoken person, couldn't speak out on this until a lot of time had passed. Think about how hard it must be for people who are less outspoken.