2021 US Nationals Mens FS: When you fall in a forest of cardboard people, do you make a sound?

[bardtoob]

Whenever I read anything you write - which is almost invariably nasty - I always wonder what your world is like in real life. Not very happy, I’d guess.

I was talking about technical content, the composition of the Olympic Team, etc. as if it is a sport and the US is at the pinnacle of the sport.

It is hard for me to count on somebody near the maximum of their scoring potential while others are raising the ceiling, even if there is some clear virtuosity in it.

 

[Spun Silver]

Has anyone wondered what Nathan might look like in a slow-ish, lyrical, balletic program? (Probably an SP, and I'm not counting Le Corsaire from awhile back.)

I have. He has great arms and upper body carriage.

Hmm. I don't think slow is his thing, or ballet for that matter, except insofar as it gave him the quickness that makes his footwork so great. JMO.

ETA: I also think of Nathan's style as modern/postmodern - not classical. So Rite of Spring, but not Bayadere, much as I don't mind the idea of Nathan skating shirtless (maybe without the feathered turban).

 

[Lemonade20]

Hmm. I don't think slow is his thing, or ballet for that matter, except insofar as it gave him the quickness that makes his footwork so great. JMO.

ETA: I also think of Nathan's style as modern/postmodern - not classical. So Rite of Spring, but not Bayadere, much as I don't mind the idea of Nathan skating shirtless (maybe without the feathered turban).

I think he would do well. I can’t see it happen while he’s still competing, but as a professional skater very likely. He would be amazing.

 

[bardtoob]

I’m getting annoyed at all the no-quad talk. Jason is an amazing skater, he’s the total package and I would rather watch a beautiful skate than one that’s full of quads.

standing ovation

It does not change that Jason does not have a quad.

It is unfortunate.

... It reminds me of Patrick Chan stunting his own technical development.

 

[mjb52]

I think the Russians are lock for the Team Event at this point.

Now that both Kolyada and Aliev can deliver great programs, if they keep their heads together, yeah. Russia’s weakness was its men, not anymore. If S/K hold up as a top 3 team they’re a lock.

The US has a slight chance of beating Japan for second given their relative weakness in dance and even pairs (S/K can beat a Japanese pair with even a subpar performance.). Canada isn’t a factor next year.

This is a big if! No jinxing!

 

[Karen-W]

With respect to the Olympic Team Event...

I agree with the general assessment that Russia is probably in the driver's seat for the gold but I don't think it's a guarantee. A lot will depend on which countries qualify as well as how greedy Russia is for individual medals in dance and pairs. If Russia decides they want to put their political chips in those baskets then I could see them making a choice to put their #3 dance and pairs teams in the team event, which rewards those teams with a medal of some color, though no guarantee of gold, and let their top teams in both dance and pairs focus solely on the individual events. And, really, in pairs, there isn't going to be much of a downside to keeping the same team for both segments of the team event, since their pairs are top notch and not likely to finish lower than 2nd in either segment. If the men and ladies are the ones that get swapped out... There are some interesting strategic choices to be made, especially with the men going immediately after the team event and dance after that.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Very few teams are able to send 3 people who are favorites to win medals. That’s a completely unreasonable ask, and we’ve probably seen it single digit times. If Jason doesn’t go to the Olympics, we’re not going to replace him with someone who is an individual medal contender because that person doesn’t exist, so this line of reasoning is nonsense.

I’m not a huge Jason fan, but the idea that we shouldn’t send Jason because the third person needs to be more of an individual medal contender than Jason is ridiculous. If we had such a person, they’d be beating Jason.

 

[Cayuse]

Jason and Rohene go together like Nathan and Shae Lynn. We've seen enough programs to know that those choreographers understand their skaters. Jason must see it too. Rohene challenges Jason with difficulty and it is the difficult and original moves performed precisely with the music that make Jason's programs memorable. It is time to stop listening to Tracy Wilson (who skated to Slaughter herself) and stop using David Wilson's sleep inducing choreography.

 

[bardtoob]

I’m not a huge Jason fan, but the idea that we shouldn’t send Jason because the third person needs to be more of an individual medal contender than Jason is ridiculous. If we had such a person, they’d be beating Jason.

You make a good point. The only counter I have to it is that they sent Vincent four years ago "to build for the future", so that would be the type of individual motivated in the singles event.

Of course, I actually disagreed with sending somebody to the Olympics "to build for the future" because it is too rare of an opportunity. You build for the future by giving the veteran 3rd place finisher the Olympic berth and the fresh-faced 4th place finisher the Worlds berth.

 

[Karen-W]

You make a good point. The only counter I have to it is that they sent Vincent four years ago "to build for the future", so that would be the type of individual motivated in the singles event.

Of course, I actually disagreed with sending somebody to the Olympics "to build for the future" because it is too rare of an opportunity. You build for the future by giving the veteran 3rd place finisher the Olympic berth and the fresh-faced 4th place finisher the Worlds berth.

Not if you want that fresh-faced skater to go into the next Olympics with experience under his belt at the most pressure-packed competition in the world.

 

[bardtoob]

Not if you want that fresh-faced skater to go into the next Olympics with experience under his belt at the most pressure-packed competition in the world.

The problem is not knowing whether or not the fresh-faced skater will make it to the next Olympics. For example, Mirai Nagasu got 4th at the 2010 Olympics but did not make it to the 2014 Olympics despite being 3rd at US Nationals in 2014. Ashley Wagner was 4th at US Nationals in 2014 but did not go in 2018 Olympics despite being 4th again at 2018 US Nationals . . . Scott Davis . . . Tiffany Chin . . .

 

[Karen-W]

The problem is not knowing whether or not the fresh-faced skater will make it to the next Olympics. For example, Mirai Nagasu got 4th at the 2010 Olympics but did not make it to the 2014 Olympics despite being 3rd at US Nationals in 2014. Ashley Wagner was 4th at US Nationals in 2014 but did not go in 2018 Olympics despite being 4th again at 2018 US Nationals . . . Scott Davis . . . Tiffany Chin . . .

Mirai and Ashley were both fresh/fairly new on the scene in 2010 so it's hardly the same as Miner vs Zhou. Not sure what point you are trying to make about Davis or Chin...

 

[bardtoob]

Mirai and Ashley were both fresh/fairly new on the scene in 2010 so it's hardly the same as Miner vs Zhou. Not sure what point you are trying to make about Davis or Chin...

Here is another example. Tiffany Chin, Jill Trenary, Mirai Nagasu, and Gracie Gold were all 4th at one Olympics and did not make it to the next Olympics. For the men, there are similar examples, like Scott Davis.

It is hard to tell who will make it to the next Olympics.

 

[skateboy]

Of course, I actually disagreed with sending somebody to the Olympics "to build for the future" because it is too rare of an opportunity. You build for the future by giving the veteran 3rd place finisher the Olympic berth and the fresh-faced 4th place finisher the Worlds berth.

Let's remember that Vincent actually did place 3rd at Nationals, the year he was sent to the Olympics.

 

[bardtoob]

Let's remember that Vincent actually did place 3rd at Nationals, the year he was sent to the Olympics.

Yeah and Adam forgot what he was doing in the middle of his program.