2021 US Nationals Mens FS: When you fall in a forest of cardboard people, do you make a sound?

[Lizziebeth]

I am surprised to see that apparently I am in the minority loving Jason's FS

I loved it too!

 

[SmallFairy]

He's @SmallFairy's man. I just admire from afar.

My überdom hasn’t hurt the guy so far

 

[VGThuy]

A Paniot was bound to come along to challenge Jason Brown's placeholder status.

I can’t help but agree and be devastated. Brown’s skating is so beautiful and competitive...in the SP. Even though they limited the quads since 2018, he’ll always be at a major deficit in the LP because there are multiple men with multiple quads and not all of them will mess up enough.

 

[thvu]

Paniot got six 9.00s.

 

[Dobre]

OK, but those of you who are suddenly convinced that Yaroslav will start rotating his jumps regularly . . . you realize he has had these quads for years now . . . except when he doesn't have them.

I'm ready to take this as a nice step forward for him and all, but maybe it's a tad early to be mourning other athletes' chances?

 

[bardtoob]

As of today, Nathan and Vincent will be used in the Team Event at the 2022 Olympics to secure a medal and get Vincent a medal of any kind, which Vincent deserves. The third skater will have to be somebody who is motivated to compete solely in the singles event. Jason already has a team medal from the 2014 Olympics and probably will not make the final flight in singles at the next Olympics because he still can't do one quad.

 

[dinakt]

I am surprised to see that apparently I am in the minority loving Jason's FS

The more I see it the more I like it... but I don't go crazy over it like I do for Jason's SP. And I am trying to figure out why.
Just rewatched Gene Kelly's version and then Jason. And it seems that LP makes sense (and I mostly like Wilson's work). But I still have a feeling that Jason skates it "contained within himself", so to speak- not telling a theatrical story, not emotional other than emotion of movement. Maybe because there is no audience. Maybe that's how they planned it. I'll keep rewatching and thinking.

 

[Rukia]

The more I see it the more I like it... but I don't go crazy over it like I do for Jason's SP. And I am trying to figure out why.
Just rewatched Gene Kelly's version and then Jason. And it seems that LP makes sense (and I mostly like Wilson's work). But I still have a feeling that Jason skates it "contained within himself", so to speak- not telling a theatrical story, not emotional other than emotion of movement. Maybe because there is no audience. Maybe thet's how they planned it. I'll keep rewatching and thinking.

Jason said in the press conference (via Jackie Wong): Today, it was first time out - I hope that I can play off an audience to get more energy. I was more focused on pacing the program right now not having competed it before and not burn out at the end. I held back a bit a the beginning

 

[ross_hy]

Interesting that Jason mentioned his team discussing a decision between this FS and an older FS for the Olympic year. I wonder if it's Schindler's List?

Can't wait to rewatch this whole competition again! It will be good to carry me over between now and (hopefully) Worlds.

 

[Spikefan]

I’m glad Jason is keeping the short but I agree with a new (old) free. Kind of sad Nathan is not comfortable with his short as I think that is his best one yet, great potential to grow.

 

[annie720]

Interesting that Jason mentioned his team discussing a decision between this FS and an older FS for the Olympic year. I wonder if it's Schindler's List?

Can't wait to rewatch this whole competition again! It will be good to carry me over between now and (hopefully) Worlds.

Interesting. SL is a good guess. I also thought of Scent of Love since he seemed to like it, but I think he already got a lot of mileage out of that.

 

[Spun Silver]

The third skater will have to be somebody who is motivated to compete solely in the singles event. Jason already has a team medal from the 2014 Olympics and probably will not make the final flight in singles at the next Olympics because he still can't do one quad.

How many guys can do a 100-point SP?

ETA: I think Schindler's list might be a mistake if he's still trying for a quad in the FS. It could be hard to go from projecting that melancholy to putting out a quad. Something with more momentum would be better. I say bring back Riverdance!

 

[Sylvia]

How many guys can do a 100-point SP without a quad?

Fixed that for ya! His ISU PB in SP is 96.81 (2019 Worlds where he won the small silver medal).

Jason never got to skate his Schindler's List at 2020 Worlds so I'm hoping that will be his Olympic season FS.

 

[Spun Silver]

Fixed that for ya! His ISU PB in SP is 96.81 (2019 Worlds where he won the small silver medal).

Jason never got to skate his Schindler's List at 2020 Worlds so I'm hoping that will be his Olympic season FS.

But how many guys can do a 100-point SP at all?
Im just questioning @bardtoob's view that Jason may not get into the final group at the Olympics. It seems very possible, if not quite bankable, to me.

 

[skateboy]

I can't help but feel that, had Jason landed his 4T and skated clean, no one here would be complaining about his program.

 

[tony]

I can't help but feel that, had Jason landed his 4T and skated clean, no one here would be complaining about his program.

For me, nope. I always get some kind of feeling or invested in his program and this one did nothing for me, regardless of the opening fall. Well, I never got into Simon & Garfunkel either and thought that was a really bad choice by his team.

I appreciate the skating and the choreography, but I personally think he's one of the few capable of really drawing everyone into a program. Just won't happen with this one for me.

 

[tony]

But how many guys can do a 100-point SP at all?

Jason's been close to 100 but not quite there, I think 96 at Worlds a few years ago was his highest. ETA: just checked. 96.81

Skaters probably capable: Hanyu, Chen, Zhou, Kolyada, Aliev, (Samarin if he makes the team instead of one of those two), Uno, Jin, Aymoz maybe, Kagiyama if he keeps progressing, Kvitelashvili, and quite possibly Messing if he's spot-on. Now they aren't all going to skate clean, but the potential is high for the top 10 in the short to be over 100 or just barely under.

 

[bardtoob]

How many guys can do a 100-point SP?

You know I will consider your question.

I can't help but feel that, had Jason landed his 4T and skated clean, no one here would be complaining about his program.

Of course not because it would be technical progress after being stalled for 8 years.

ETA: No, 10 years.

 

[Spikefan]

I can't help but feel that, had Jason landed his 4T and skated clean, no one here would be complaining about his program.

There was no quad in the short and I think it’s my favorite men’s short ever. I felt no connection to that free so even clean it would have just been good.

Jason and Kolyada are the two that I can thoroughly enjoy without a quad and not fully clean. One has an amazing short and the other an amazing free (hope they keep them). May they both have two worthy programs next season.

 

[Spun Silver]

Jason's been close to 100 but not quite there, I think 96 at Worlds a few years ago was his highest. ETA: just checked. 96.81

Skaters probably capable: Hanyu, Chen, Zhou, Kolyada, Aliev, (Samarin if he makes the team instead of one of those two), Uno, Jin, Aymoz maybe, Kagiyama if he keeps progressing, Kvitelashvili, and quite possibly Messing if he's spot-on. Now they aren't all going to skate clean, but the potential is high for the top 10 in the short to be over 100 or just barely under.

Thanks for the list. It seems to me that Jason is right up there with them in being close to 100 internationally if he skates clean. So no reason not to put him on the US team - esp with Chen and Zhou as our one-two punch.

 

[tony]

Thanks for the list. It seems to me that Jason is right up there with them in being close to 100 internationally if he skates clean. So no reason not to put him on the US team - esp with Chen and Zhou as our one-two punch.

Well, I don't think anyone has to worry about Paniot being a contender even with citizenship. They pushed his PCS so ridiculously high today, and seeing how it was somewhat close between him and Jason, I don't think USFS will make that mistake again. And if he does get into the top 3 (granted US has 3 spots), I'm sure it'll be another Miner BOW incident.

But Ilia Malinin is someone who, if healthy, could really be a contender. I would say Maxim Naumov is too, and he can certainly work hard over the summer, but I think Malinin is in the best place if he's 100%

 

[skatingguy]

Which is why he's one of the bronze medal contenders. If he wants a gold, he's going to have to rely on the team event, which is not out of the realm of possibility with their ladies, pairs and Sin/Kats.

I think the Russians are lock for the Team Event at this point.

 

[Dobre]

I just prefer Rohene's choreography for Jason. As David Wilson programs go, this free is fine. It just doesn't make as much use of Jason's strengths as his Rohene programs. Having said that, I wouldn't change anything this season. He has beautiful positions, sells the movement well. Just needs it to be more solid. Short was fabulous. Free is a work in progress, and I would rather see him complete that work than mess around with changing programs.

 

[PRlady]

I think the Russians are lock for the Team Event at this point.

Now that both Kolyada and Aliev can deliver great programs, if they keep their heads together, yeah. Russia’s weakness was its men, not anymore. If S/K hold up as a top 3 team they’re a lock.

The US has a slight chance of beating Japan for second given their relative weakness in dance and even pairs (S/K can beat a Japanese pair with even a subpar performance.). Canada isn’t a factor next year.

 

[Wyliefan]

wrong thread

 

[Wyliefan]

wrong thread

 

[tony]

Now that both Kolyada and Aliev can deliver great programs, if they keep their heads together, yeah. Russia’s weakness was its men, not anymore. If S/K hold up as a top 3 team they’re a lock.

The US has a slight chance of beating Japan for second given their relative weakness in dance and even pairs (S/K can beat a Japanese pair with even a subpar performance.). Canada isn’t a factor next year.

I think the US is a clear second with a slim chance to get gold, most likely coming from another meltdown by a Russian man. I think Nathan needs to consider skating both programs if they really want to go for gold, but I doubt he will with the adjusted schedule.

Canada can still get into the final 5 and still have a shot at a bronze because ladies are their only problem area, really. What I'll be curious to see is if China actually makes their top skaters compete twice (S/H, Jin) because they are at home and they could also put themselves into contention. If Japan and China round out the 5 but feel like they aren't really in it, we will see another likely instance of the second or third-ranked skaters 'getting the chance' and making less of a competition at the top. Even with the strongest Japanese teams, they are probably looking at last place in both the pairs LP and free dance, so there's that.

I don't see France as a contender for the 5 even with P/C and Aymoz, but if China and/or Japan gives up before it even starts (China did it in 2018) then maybe.

The race for the 4th and 5th spots may be intriguing between JPN, CHN, ITA, and FRA.

 

[Vagabond]

I'm watching Braulio's videos at the moment.

I know that I have slagged off Lipinski and Weir this weekend, but I have to say that while their understanding of the scoring system is faulty, the quality of their basic skating commentary has greatly improved over the years. Maybe they should work with Eteri Tutberidze and Daniil Gleikhengauz to make their programs more -friendly.

 

[genevieve]

I will gladly subscribe to the 'cock for life if it means I never have to hear ANY commentary again

 

[Lemonade20]

As of today, Nathan and Vincent will be used in the Team Event at the 2022 Olympics to secure a medal and get Vincent a medal of any kind, which Vincent deserves. The third skater will have to be somebody who is motivated to compete solely in the singles event. Jason already has a team medal from the 2014 Olympics and probably will not make the final flight in singles at the next Olympics because he still can't do one quad.

I’m getting annoyed at all the no-quad talk. Jason is an amazing skater, he’s the total package and I would rather watch a beautiful skate than one that’s full of quads.