2022 Four Continents Comes To Rude Euro Land (Relocation to Tallinn)

[Dobre]

Thank you to Estonia.

There will be athletes at this year's 4CCs that will go on to compete at Worlds and very likely at the Olympics in 4 years.

Maybe Lambiel's Japanese skaters will also attend?

 

[Karen-W]

Thank you to Estonia.

There will be athletes at this year's 4CCs that will go on to compete at Worlds and very likely at the Olympics in 4 years.

Maybe Lambiel's Japanese skaters will also attend?

Who does he have still? Rika's at the Cricket Club. Where's Shoma these days?

 

[Vagabond]

I admit a small part of me is disappointed this event was not awarded to South Africa.

The European Championships may have (frankly meaningless) 'prestige', but the past 25 years the event has been no more than Russian National Championships Part Two with occasionally meaningful guest skaters.

Russian Nationals Ladies Results, 2007-12

2007	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Kiira Korpi
2008	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Laura Lepistö
2009	Laura Lepistö	Carolina Kostner	Susanna Pöykiö
2010	Carolina Kostner	Laura Lepistö	Elene Gedevanishvili
2011	Sarah Meier	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi
2012	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi	Elene Gedevanishvili

Thank goodness for those meaningful guest skaters.

 

[greenapple]

He still has Koshiro Shimada and I think a couple of other young Japanese skaters. Shoma is training in Japan.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Russian Nationals Ladies Results, 2007-12

2007	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Kiira Korpi
2008	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Laura Lepistö
2009	Laura Lepistö	Carolina Kostner	Susanna Pöykiö
2010	Carolina Kostner	Laura Lepistö	Elene Gedevanishvili
2011	Sarah Meier	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi
2012	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi	Elene Gedevanishvili

Thank goodness for those meaningful guest skaters.

Wait a second wasn’t Julia Sebestyen a winner one of those years ? The year they were in Hungary ?

 

[Amy L]

Wait a second wasn’t Julia Sebestyen a winner one of those years ? The year they were in Hungary ?

2004

 

[Vagabond]

2004

Yes. That was the year that Babou, Granny, and Freakin were among the meaningful guest stars.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

2004

That’s when that was? Oh my gosh

I need to head over to the YouTubes tonight and watch her programs. She had such a great height on her jumps

 

[Frau Muller]

Sadly 4CC still won't be fully attended by the top skaters from North America because the Olympics start only 12 days later after 4CC ends which means it will be 3 years since the last fully attended event in 2020.

Why? Are they all planning to sail on the Cunard Line? This is 2021/22. They can get their butts on airplanes.

 

[Karen-W]

Russian Nationals Ladies Results, 2007-12

2007	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Kiira Korpi
2008	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Laura Lepistö
2009	Laura Lepistö	Carolina Kostner	Susanna Pöykiö
2010	Carolina Kostner	Laura Lepistö	Elene Gedevanishvili
2011	Sarah Meier	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi
2012	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi	Elene Gedevanishvili

Thank goodness for those meaningful guest skaters.

Oh, are we going to play this game?

You have to go back to 2011 to find a Men's podium without at least one Russian man on it - and the only year there weren't 2 Russian men on it was 2019. And from 1994-2002 there were three years where the Men's podium didn't consist of all Russian/Former USSR skaters - Philippe Candeloro 1997, Stanick Jeannette 2001 & Brian Joubert 2002. There was, similar to the Women's Euros medalists, a pretty dark period c. 2002-2010 where the only men's medalist was Plushenko save a bronze by Klimkin in 2004. 37 out of 84 possible medals since 1994 (43 if you count Petrenko 1994, Zagorordniuk 1994-1997; & Dmitrenko 2000 - I'll front you Kvitelashvili 2020)

As far as the Women go - 2013 forward, apart from bronzes by Carolina Kostner in 2013, 2017 & 2018, the only non-Russian woman to podium was Viveca Lindfors in 2019. Similarly, the 1994-2006 period was dominated by Russian/Former USSR skaters - with 1999-2002 particularly noteworthy as the Russian women owned the podium. Julia Sebestyen finally broke the Russian stranglehold in 2003 with a bronze & gold the following year but even still, there were 2 Russians/Former USSR skaters on the podium every year through 2006. 44 out of 84 possible medals since 1994 (49 if you count Baiul in 1994; Liashenko 1995; 2004-05; & Lavrenchuk 1997 - I'll front you Gedevanishvili's 2 medals).

FFS - Pairs has been more consistently competitive at Euros over that same time period with only 7 podium sweeps - thank you for Wotzel/Steuer, Abitbol/Bernadis, Zagorska/Siudek, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Savchenko/Massot, and James/Cipres being able to medal multiple times in their eras. 54 out of 84 possible medals since 1994.

Now, I will give you Dance as very competitive - there's only been 2 times since 1994 that Russian/Former USSR teams have swept the podium - 1996 & 2006, but Russia definitely dominates the podium with 38 out of 84 possible medals since 1994 (44 if you count Romanova/Yaroshenko 1996; Drobiazko/Vanagas 2000 & 2006; and Grushina/Goncharov 2004-06.

Seriously - let's not pretend that Euros is much better than Russian Nationals plus a few other countries when over half of the medals in the last 28 years have gone to Russian or Former USSR skaters, and that's even including the very dark period in singles from roughly 2007-2012 where Plushenko was the only medalist (2010 & 2012) in either Men or Women. There's a better medal distribution, overall, I bet, between the four major 4CCs nations than there is between the four top Euros nations (Russia, France, Italy & who would the 4th country even be??? Finland? Germany? Switzerland? Great Britain?)

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

OK, Hersh really is an idiot.

He dropped his ID Lanyard once at an event I attended. If you've ever wondered what he looks like, here's his headshot.

 

[MsZem]

I think we've already established that there are cultural and calendar reasons why the US and Canada hold their Nationals in January vs late November or December. Discussing it ad nauseum won't move either fed into shifting their entire competition calendar to accommodate a pre-Christmas Nationals nor even a last week of December Nationals.

1) GPF is the 2nd weekend of December - if the last 2 weeks of December are out because of Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa, New Year's - then exactly when should the US and Canada have Nationals if not in January?

Yet European countries manage to hold Nationals in December despite this. And now I have "Do They Know It's Christmas" stuck in my head, which does not thrill me.

4CC can be a wonderful event, but for various reasons it's sometimes treated as optional. Hopefully we'll still get a great field this season, and the skaters who go will enjoy the novelty of 4CC in Europe.

 

[PeterG]

Russian Nationals Ladies Results, 2007-12

2007	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Kiira Korpi
2008	Carolina Kostner	Sarah Meier	Laura Lepistö
2009	Laura Lepistö	Carolina Kostner	Susanna Pöykiö
2010	Carolina Kostner	Laura Lepistö	Elene Gedevanishvili
2011	Sarah Meier	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi
2012	Carolina Kostner	Kiira Korpi	Elene Gedevanishvili

Thank goodness for those meaningful guest skaters.

Europeans didn't let ice dancers, pairs skaters or men compete in those years??!!

 

[mjb52]

Not to join the PH pile-on but I do wonder at times whether he even likes skating. I guess it is consistent with this little Oscar Wilde ditty: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/214252-yet-each-man-kills-the-thing-he-loves-by-each

 

[MsZem]

I remember when it was considered ambitious for Russia to aim for two ladies in the top ten

Europeans didn't let ice dancers, pairs skaters or men compete in those years??!!

Results from that time period for reference (they don't support the argument that Euros are functionally equivalent to Russian Nationals, either):

Men
2007: Joubert, Verner, van der Perren
2008: Verner, Lambiel, Joubert
2009: Joubert, Contesti, van der Perren
2010: Plushenko, Lambiel, Joubert
2011: Amodio, Joubert, Verner
2012: Plushenko, Gachinski, Amodio
After that, Fernandez won seven straight titles.

Pairs
2007: Savchenko/Szolkowy, Petrova/Tikhonov, Siudeks
2008: Savchenko/Szolkowy, Mukhortova/Trankov, Kavaguti/Smirnov
2009: Savchenko/Szolkowy, Kavaguti/Smirnov, Mukhortova/Trankov
2010: Kavaguti/Smirnov, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Mukhortova/Trankov
2011: Savchenko/Szolkowy, Kavaguti/Smirnov, Bazarova/Larionov
2012: Volosozhar/Trankov, Bazarova/Larionov, Stolbova/Klimov (I don't remember why Savchenko/Szolkowy weren't there)

Ice Dance
2007: DelSchoes, DomShabs, DenStavs
2008: DomShabs, DelSchoes, Khokhlova/Novitski
2009: Khokhlova/Novitski, Faiella/Scali, the Kerrs
2010: DomShabs, Faiella/Scali, Khokhlova/Novitski
2011: Pechalat/Bourzat, Bobrova/Soloviev, the Kerrs
2012: Pechalat/Bourzat, Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinykh/Katsalapov

Russia obviously has more medals than any other country, but there's plenty of non-Russians across all four disciplines. I'm pretty sure there are also more countries represented on Euros podiums than at 4CC, though of course there are way more participating countries at the former.

 

[love_skate2011]

I was really pulling for the UAE after looking over the ISU members list. Similar time zone as South Africa and all that plus Dubai would be almost as attractive as Las Vegas for skaters looking to take a vacation post-competition.

Dubai is temperate between December to February. Its not that bad really.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Not to join the PH pile-on but I do wonder at times whether he even likes skating. I guess it is consistent with this little Oscar Wilde ditty: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/214252-yet-each-man-kills-the-thing-he-loves-by-each

He's like Dancing On Ice hiring that awful, bitchy, angry Jason Gardiner, to stir the pot. Good for ratings, I guess, but so damaging to the respectability of the sport. If it is any consolation, Phil Hersh isn't liked by many of the other journalists. At least in the western press. The Japanese don't think of him at all.

Unfortunately because of his name and status, coverage of the sport in the press is often by association.

 

[AxelAnnie]

ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships - International Skating Union

The International Skating Union is the international sport federation administering Ice Skating sports throughout the world.

isu.org

It's Tallin, Estonia. I'm not kidding.

I. Have a grandson named Talyn...but I don't think he'll be hosting....he is 8 and very funny so it could be fun!

If? Name a year when European federations didn’t. I’ll eat your fluffy pink sweater if you can tell me.

Sometimes I really think some North Americans here do not get how prestigious Europeans is for European skaters and how prestigious it is to host the event prior to an Olympics.

Yep.

 

[AxelAnnie]

In other breaking news, water is wet.

And grass is green.

Our top story tonight: the sky is blue and the blades are sharp.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I. Have a grandson named Talyn...but I don't think he'll be hosting....he is 8 and very funny so it could be fun!

Yep.

That may be true
I always Euros is the best of the best.
I who thought up 4 ccc? It has always seemed to me that it wasthe oops forgot to have that competition so let's cobble some thing together

 

[allezfred]

Looking at what’s considered European for Eurovision, it’s clearly an elastic concept.

Eligibility for the Eurovision isn't based on being a European country. It's based on being a member of the European Broadcasting Union which is a different thing. A whole host of North African and Middle Eastern countries are eligible to compete at Eurovision due to their membership of the EBU (but don't because Israel).

 

[PRlady]

Eligibility for the Eurovision isn't based on being a European country. It's based on being a member of the European Broadcasting Union which is a different thing. A whole host of North African and Middle Eastern countries are eligible to compete at Eurovision due to their membership of the EBU (but don't because Israel).

Well if they keep signing peace accords….as of now UAE, Bahrain and Morocco all have relations with Israel so they may be showing up soon.

 

[On My Own]

Not to join the PH pile-on but I do wonder at times whether he even likes skating. I guess it is consistent with this little Oscar Wilde ditty: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/214252-yet-each-man-kills-the-thing-he-loves-by-each

I think he clearly doesn't like skating. He's very aggressive, and I blocked him a bit back. Just don't like having what he says on my timeline.

 

[allezfred]

Well if they keep signing peace accords….as of now UAE, Bahrain and Morocco all have relations with Israel so they may be showing up soon.

Morocco entered Eurovision in 1980 which was their one and only time. Don’t think they’ll be back in a hurry.

 

[Sylvia]

Not to join the PH pile-on but I do wonder at times whether he even likes skating.

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1445088615193792517

Papadakis & Cizeron have utterly gobsmacked me with FD music choice. The Fauré Elegy is one of greatest pieces in the cello repertoire and, for that matter, in the entire musical canon. One I will be delighted to hear several times as season progresses.

 

[Karen-W]

Russia obviously has more medals than any other country, but there's plenty of non-Russians across all four disciplines. I'm pretty sure there are also more countries represented on Euros podiums than at 4CC, though of course there are way more participating countries at the former.

Just going to point out that the original comment was that Euros has been not much more than a mini-Russian Nats with a few other countries thrown in for good measure in the last TWENTY-FIVE years. @Vagabond chose to cherry-pick a very specific period within that 25 year window in which Rissia was at its absolute lowest in Women’s skating and not much better in Men's skating. You are continuing to perpetuate the myth that somehow, Euros over the last quarter century has NOT been dominated by Russia, which is simply neither true nor accurate. Even during that 6 year window, Russia was still dominant in both Pairs and Dance. And, outside of that, Russia has been extremely dominant in the singles disciplines as well. One country has won over half of all medals in for grabs at Euros since 1994. Russia.

Comparatively speaking, since 4CCs began in 1999, there have been 264 medals awarded and the US has nabbed just over 33% of them (90), with Canada at 65, Japan at 57, and China at 46.

Four Continents Figure Skating Championships cumulative medal count - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

We can keep playing this game but I haven't seen anyone argue with those who like to snipe about 4CCs being a medal/prize money haul for the top 4 countries or endlessly snark about 4CCs dance being completely dominated by the US and Canada. All of that is true and the 4CCs supporters here own those truths. It would be nice if those who did the sniping and snarking would at least have the decency to admit that, yeah, Euros really is "Russia and a few other countries thrown in for good measure".

 

[Wyliefan]

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1445088615193792517

That proves he likes music ...

 

[Vagabond]

@Vagabond chose to cherry-pick a very specific period within that 25 year window in which Rissia was at its absolute lowest in Women’s skating and not much better in Men's skating.

I was responding to a "poster" who wasn't even a gleam in her writer's eye at the time.

 

[Karen-W]

I was responding to a "poster" who wasn't even a gleam in her writer's eye at the time.

So? The poster wasn't wrong. Who cares how old the poster is. The facts don't change just because some young whippersnapper points them out. And it doesn't change the fact that you cherry-picked a very specific 6-year window within the last quarter century when Russia was at its lowest ebb in Women’s to argue the point, even though Russia has won over half the medals up for grabs in the Women’s discipline since 1994.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I was responding to a "poster" who wasn't even a gleam in her writer's eye at the time.

Those quotation marks are almost as hostile as your futile attempts at humor,my dear.

Rest assured,I am a seasoned mature woman. I am the writer of my own story.

-BB