The Dance Hall 13: When You Dance on the Ice and Your Feet Twizzle Twice, That's Amore

[Debbie S]

The writer of that article might have done an ounce of research before writing, and then they might know why FB/C received a deduction on the lift (can't blame Rettstatt for that one, unless they think he manipulated the timer to run faster just for them ) and that all choreo step sequences are scored L1.

I don't think it's smart of Guillaume to make accusations against the head of the IDTC (and effectively bring C/B into it), but he doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool.

 

[Kateri]

I have seen some posts about changing the results and I didn't pick that up at all from the source article. You can't even challenge a call during competition so the results are the results. I don't think the review will be about anything more than an "emergency" type meeting (partly to give the impression they are taking this seriously) to sort their shit out and get on the same page about how to call elements in competition. I would be shocked if more than that came out of it.

Agreed. I would be surprised if the numerical scores changed (because I cannot imagine they want to set that precendent), but even if they did, this is a "safe" comp to do it with, because no one is seriously arguing that the standings are wrong, or should be changed.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I am confused by why anyone thinks a review would be about changing results.

You could be right. Things are always interesting these Olympic seasons. I have only really been following ice dance this year and really only the GP series but have no doubts when an Olympic spot is on the line crazy things can happen. Having said that we should go back to Worlds then

The reason to go back to Skate to Milano is not just that Olympic spots were on the line. It’s that the calling was deeply suspect and seemed clearly manipulated to send certain teams to the Olympics. I don’t believe any such accusations were made about the world’s calling.

 

[PRlady]

I think the only team shocked and angered at Worlds were G/F, finally finishing behind the Brits after many lesser comps where that happened. If there were other consistent complaints, I don’t remember them.

Guillame is trying to set it up so that the only way they can lose is by cheating or political shenanigans. Although I think the choreo step call was bogus, I don’t like that equation.

 

[marbri]

I am confused by why anyone thinks a review would be about changing results.



The reason to go back to Skate to Milano is not just that Olympic spots were on the line. It’s that the calling was deeply suspect and seemed clearly manipulated to send certain teams to the Olympics. I don’t believe any such accusations were made about the world’s calling.

There was definitely some sculduggery at Worlds but I've moved onto this season
As I mentioned before somewhere I didn't watch Skate to Milano. But I am not surprised and have no doubts, any event that determines Olympic spots are like that.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Poor Paul. Tossed aside like yesterdays news.

Oh yeah, what was I thinking, I think I may have had the wrong dose of Kahlúa in the Cheerios this morning.

GilHusband for the win!!!!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

By the way, do we think that BeauCiz are a one and done type situation?

 

[marbri]

By the way, do we think that BeauCiz are a one and done type situation?

If they win gold in Milan and that gives him more titles ( Olympic +World Championships ) than Scott Moir then yeah, I think they are a one and done and he can skate off and retire as the most decorated male ice dancer ever.

 

[PRlady]

And Lolo gets an Oly medal which she never would have gotten with Sorensen, so everybody’s happy. Except the 4th place team in Milan.

 

[Debbie S]

Guillame is trying to set it up so that the only way they can lose is by cheating or political shenanigans.

That didn't help Bourne/Kraatz in 1998. And in their case, there actually was blatant cheating going on.

As was noted here, the TS who made the same choreo step call on the Mrazeks last season was on the Finlandia panel (and it wasn't Rettstatt). We don't know which member of the panel made the initial call but it was almost certainly one of the TS. As the Controller, Rettstatt would have been a tiebreaking vote if the TS don't agree.

 

[annie_mg]

Zingas’ father is from Cypress.

It's Cyprus. (My home country).

 

[Karen-W]

That didn't help Bourne/Kraatz in 1998. And in their case, there actually was blatant cheating going on.

As was noted here, the TS who made the same choreo step call on the Mrazeks last season was on the Finlandia panel (and it wasn't Rettstatt). We don't know which member of the panel made the initial call but it was almost certainly one of the TS. As the Controller, Rettstatt would have been a tiebreaking vote if the TS don't agree.

Don't be sensible now! Folks don't want to be confronted with facts and data when they've got their misinformed conspiracy theories to cling to.

 

[Andrea82]

CTES watch update -

One Challenger (Tallinn Trophy) and two B events (Santa Claus Cup, Bosphorus Cup) this weekend are the last dance competitions ahead of the Euros entry deadline.

Ivanitskiy/Sperry (need +1.78) will be in Istanbul aiming for the third Finnish spot as well as Hairsine/Surenkov-Gultchev making their debut for Bulgaria.

Bosphorus Cup has had generous panels the last few years so they'll be joined by lots of teams hunting for Worlds minimums: all four Polish teams (Dovhal/Kulesza are the nearest - need +0.25), PinPog (need +0.20 - though Larson/Kapran already have minimums for UKR), Verhaegh/van Geffen (NED - need +0.42), Kudryavtseva/Karankevich (CYP - need +1.41), Pallu Neves/Panesar (BRA - need +4.93), Nauryzova/Datiev (KAZ - need +6.57), Kazakova/Kasinskij (GEO - need +8.34) and the Straubs (AUT - need +10.84).

In Budapest there's no-one whose country can't already fill it's Euros/4CC spots, but we've got both AZE teams (Weatherby/Kolosovskyi need +3.16 for Worlds, Ritter/Brykalov need +3.89) and Shilling/Baeten (BEL - need +10.89 for Worlds). Ziobrowska/Judd (ROU) are on the entry list but he's on IPS so I guess they're done.

Juniors in action this weekend who are only a few points off the Junior Worlds minimums include the Amaro Letestu twins (only 0.22 off becoming Portugal's first ever championship competitors!), Epps/Gilman (need +1.27) and Gallix/Egyed-Zsigmond, who recently switched from France to Hungary (need +2.10).

News from the Bosphorus
Kudryavtseva/Karankevich qualify for Worlds after a 43.63 TES in the RD
PinPog also made it.
Ivanitskiy/Sperry got the Euro TES

 

[marbri]

That didn't help Bourne/Kraatz in 1998. And in their case, there actually was blatant cheating going on.

As was noted here, the TS who made the same choreo step call on the Mrazeks last season was on the Finlandia panel (and it wasn't Rettstatt). We don't know which member of the panel made the initial call but it was almost certainly one of the TS. As the Controller, Rettstatt would have been a tiebreaking vote if the TS don't agree.

Not necessarily. He can call a review on his own if he doesn't agree with the call made by the TS.

The Technical Panel is composed of the Technical Controller and two Technical Specialists, each one from different ISU Members (countries). A Data Operator assists them for recording purposes. An instantaneous slow-motion video replay system operated by a Replay Operator supports the Technical Panel in the identification of the performed elements.

The Technical Specialists identify and call the performed elements and the specific Levels of Difficulty of certain performed elements (e.g. spins, footwork). They identify illegal or additional elements and falls.

The Technical Controller authorizes and/or corrects all calls, supervises the Data Operator and can propose corrections, if necessary.

In case of disagreement, the majority among the three Officials prevails.

That doesn't mean he did this all on his own. If you say one of the TS here did the same to Mrazeks then it stands to reason they and Rettstatt agreed together and overruled the other TS ( who probably sat there thinking WTF are you two playing at )

 

[marbri]

Don't be sensible now! Folks don't want to be confronted with facts and data when they've got their misinformed conspiracy theories to cling to.

You know I am kind of impressed that you of all people refuse to admit the power the TC has. I would have thought you would have an excel file that covers this

 

[Karen-W]

That doesn't mean he did this all on his own. If you say one of the TS here did the same to Mrazeks then it stands to reason they and Rettstatt agreed together and overruled the other TS ( who probably sat there thinking WTF are you two playing at )

Golly, gosh, is it possible that all three of the Tech panel members agreed it was an issue? What will you do if it turns out it was a unanimous decision?

 

[marbri]

Golly, gosh, is it possible that all three of the Tech panel members agreed it was an issue? What will you do if it turns out it was a unanimous decision?

Gosh darn gee willikers! I will just have to find the strength to continue living my life

What will you do when you find out you're wrong though? No way IN HELL all three agreed. And nice dodge not addressing the power and role of the TC ( I noticed

 

[Karen-W]

Gosh darn gee willikers! I will just have to find the strength to continue living my life

What will you do when you find out you're wrong though? No way IN HELL all three agreed. And nice dodge not addressing the power and role of the TC ( I noticed

Why are you so convinced that they weren't in agreement?

And why are you so intent on pinning ALL of the blame on Rettstatt for this? Or, worse, alleging even worse collusion on his part?

Literally no one has ever screamed this loudly about the power & role of the TC on tech panels until now and it's all because Gui skated too damn close to the boards during an opening choreo bit.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The Technical Controller who is also the chair of the Technical Committee.

It's still fresh to me that in 2002 Marie-Reine Le Gougne was jockeying for a position on the Technical Committee so that she was no longer under the thumb of Gailhauguet, and that what Sally Stapleford thought of her was key to her confession at the elevator. If it were anyone else without that kind of influence, she might flipped that person a haughty l'oiseau instead of having a meltdown as she saw her aspirations go up like Cherries Jubilee.

 

[marbri]

Why are you so convinced that they weren't in agreement?

And why are you so intent on pinning ALL of the blame on Rettstatt for this? Or, worse, alleging even worse collusion on his part?

Literally no one has ever screamed this loudly about the power & role of the TC on tech panels until now and it's all because Gui skated too damn close to the boards during an opening choreo bit.

I think you will find I was negative about Rettstatt before Guillaume set foot in Finland.
And turns out my tinfoil hat was right

But moving on to another topic. You seem very sure all the calls are correct and have provided charts, videos and explanations to back that up. Can you tell me why LaLas twizzles were L2 at SA? I´m not disputing it like I am the choreo step in Finland. I just want to know why...

 

[marbri]

The Technical Controller who is also the chair of the Technical Committee.

It's still fresh to me that in 2002 Marie-Reine Le Gougne was jockeying for a position on the Technical Committee so that she was no longer under the thumb of Gailhauguet, and that what Sally Stapleford thought of her was key to her confession at the elevator. If it were anyone else without that kind of influence, she might flipped that person a haughty l'oiseau instead of having a meltdown as she saw her aspirations go up like Cherries Jubilee.

From what I personally witnessed long ago they learn quick not to bite the hand that feeds you. Because if you do you won't get fed a lot of assignments.

 

[tony]

They would’ve known watching practice that this call was coming IMO. They watch every practice and would’ve seen the program at least 2x. Because a sudden ‘oh that’s a ChSt’ in real time…. combine that with papergate or whatever the kids wanna call it these days with C/B at Skate America, and it’s like the panel sat eagerly awaiting the call.

The rules are so poorly written, some of the stuff is next to impossible to find since the ISU revamped their website, and the skaters themselves are confused. I’ll read the whole message on our next show but I had a dancer competing on the Grand Prix message me last week thanking Thomas and I for our videos that explain some of the finer details in-depth, to help that skater understand more. It shouldn’t be like that.

I don’t know how long I’ve been whining about Ch elements taking over and the GOE just being thrown at them to make or break skaters, but it all needs revamped in the summer. With a new set of leadership in the ice dance technical committee.

 

[skategal]

I think the only team shocked and angered at Worlds were G/F, finally finishing behind the Brits after many lesser comps where that happened. If there were other consistent complaints, I don’t remember them.

Guillame is trying to set it up so that the only way they can lose is by cheating or political shenanigans. Although I think the choreo step call was bogus, I don’t like that equation.

Surprised you don’t remember the sandbagging of L/B in the wake of Cizeron’s comeback announcement and the lesser dumpage of the Lalas.

 

[her grace]

Check out the Junior GP Finalists’s RDs and you can see how the Junior version with two patterns functions as a technical program.

The teams that made the final have superior technique because the requirements demand it. These are still entertaining programs, but they’re not all fluff and vibes.

 

[PRlady]

Surprised you don’t remember the sandbagging of L/B in the wake of Cizeron’s comeback announcement and the lesser dumpage of the Lalas.

IIRC by the time Worlds rolled around, L/B were already dumped, so it wasn’t a shock. I don’t remember the LaLa situation.

 

[skategal]

IIRC by the time Worlds rolled around, L/B were already dumped, so it wasn’t a shock. I don’t remember the LaLa situation.

Lalas dropped from 5th in Montreal to 7th in Boston with no obvious mistakes.

Some folks were shaking their heads at that one.

 

[marbri]

Lalas dropped from 5th in Montreal to 7th in Boston with no obvious mistakes.

Some folks were shaking their heads at that one.

Especially at the four judges at the end who placed them 10th-12th

 

[Kateri]

By the way, do we think that BeauCiz are a one and done type situation?

Stop trying to make "BeauCiz" happen right this minute! His head's big enough as it is!

 

[Marta24]

Especially at the four judges at the end who placed them 10th-12th

It was obvious what those judges were trying to do. They focussed specifically on dumping the Mrazeks and LaLa. I don't think these kind of judging blocks forming can ever be prevented, but the IDTC could at least try to make it more difficult for the judges to pull something like this off.

 

[jmtfti]

Check out the Junior GP Finalists’s RDs and you can see how the Junior version with two patterns functions as a technical program.

The teams that made the final have superior technique because the requirements demand it. These are still entertaining programs, but they’re not all fluff and vibes.

I find junior ice dance much more enjoyable than senior at this point. Two real patterns and no choreo sequence in a rhythm dance makes such a tremendous difference.