U.S. Women [#6]: The More the Merrier!

[Willin]

I think Alysa still looks like she needs more time on the 3-3 combo - but I think she can get it around with more practice.

I'm probably reading too much into it, but I think the MacArthur Park program is cute both in concept and because during the pandemic she couldn't go to her usual indoor gym she trained at a (sketchy) park off of MacArthur Boulevard - a major street in Oakland. It likely didn't matter in the music choice since the park has a different name (Mosswood Park), but it's certainly a fun coincidence. Other fun fact: that park is now the host of a John Waters' brainchild local music festival.

 

[layman]

I am cautiously optimistic for Alysa going into the free. Her fitness level looked really good in the short. She still seems to rush the jump take-offs (and therefore is not getting the height that she could get) but she's using her legs a lot more than she did as a pre-teen. I feel this new technique is a lot more sustainable. If she wants the 4-lutz back, I think she can get it by slowing down the entry, tweaking the entrance pattern and really pressing off that back outside edge to vault herself into the air. She already knows how to pull in tightly to complete the 4 rotations.

I loved Alysa's artistic expression in the short and she actually achieves a beautiful position in her layback spin (which is a rarity these days).

 

[Jammers]

I am cautiously optimistic for Alysa going into the free. Her fitness level looked really good in the short. She still seems to rush the jump take-offs (and therefore is not getting the height that she could get) but she's using her legs a lot more than she did as a pre-teen. I feel this new technique is a lot more sustainable. If she wants the 4-lutz back, I think she can get it by slowing down the entry, tweaking the entrance pattern and really pressing off that back outside edge to vault herself into the air. She already knows how to pull in tightly to complete the 4 rotations.

I loved Alysa's artistic expression in the short and she actually achieves a beautiful position in her layback spin (which is a rarity these days).

The quad days are over she's not tiny like she was back in 2019-20.

 

[layman]

The quad days are over she's not tiny like she was back in 2019-20.

You don't need to be tiny to do the 4-lutz. Just look at the men. Alysa said she did the 4-lutz (before) because the lutz is her favorite jump. It's also her best jump and the one she is most comfortable with. I believe she can get the 4-lutz back by tweaking the entrance pattern.

 

[Jammers]

You don't need to be tiny to do the 4-lutz. Just look at the men. Alysa said she did the 4-lutz (before) because the lutz is her favorite jump. It's also her best jump and the one she is most comfortable with. I believe she can get the 4-lutz back by tweaking the entrance pattern.

The men skate with much more speed and power.

 

[layman]

The men skate with much more speed and power.

So does Alysa Liu, as compared to her pre-teen days. She has the speed and power, now she needs a few tweaks to the technique to get this jump back into her arsenal.

 

[Karen-W]

So does Alysa Liu, as compared to her pre-teen days. She has the speed and power, now she needs a few tweaks to the technique to get this jump back into her arsenal.

Let's just wait and see how she does in the FS tomorrow before we start talking quads, okay? Anyone who reviewed her FS protocol from Skate St Moritz last month should be prepared for stamina issues.

 

[tony]

So does Alysa Liu, as compared to her pre-teen days. She has the speed and power, now she needs a few tweaks to the technique to get this jump back into her arsenal.

Sorry, but I don't think we are watching the same skater. Alysa's speed, at best, is very average. I wouldn't say she skates with any kind of power when it comes to the jumps, either, as the toe loop continues to be short (for now- not saying it can't change) and the Lutz wasn't exactly massive. She's barely getting it around.

I think she should continue to skate for her own enjoyment, work on brushing up on her elements, and that's that. No need to worry about a quad Lutz that is highly unlikely any time soon-- or perhaps-- ever.

 

[Rukia]

Let's just wait and see how she does in the FS tomorrow before we start talking quads, okay? Anyone who reviewed her FS protocol from Skate St Moritz last month should be prepared for stamina issues.

I mean theoretically in a month she should have improved that some

but also why would she even care about a quad??? It's not even needed to be competitive at this point

 

[Jammers]

I mean theoretically in a month she should have improved that some

but also why would she even care about a quad??? It's not even needed to be competitive at this point

Exactly cleans programs could win her another US Nationals title because you know she will get the marks.

 

[Evgeniafan]

US Nationals is going to be amazing. I can't even guess who the top 3 will be.

 

[orbitz]

It was very nice seeing Alysa back on competitive ice, and her performance has matured. Having said that, I don't see an "IT" factor in her skating that would automatically put her above the other top U.S. ladies if they go clean. Her SP performance was nice and pleasant, not exceptional. I'd put Lindsay above Alysa.

 

[PRlady]

It was very nice seeing Alysa back on competitive ice, and her performance has matured. Having said that, I don't see an "IT" factor in her skating that would automatically put her above the other top U.S. ladies if they go clean. Her SP performance was nice and pleasant, not exceptional. I'd put Lindsay above Alysa.

I’ve always liked Lindsay but I disagree. Thorngren is an introvert and her skating is elegant but somber. Alysa brings joy to the ice. There’s no PCS component that covers this but I find her wonderful to watch.

 

[Jammers]

It was very nice seeing Alysa back on competitive ice, and her performance has matured. Having said that, I don't see an "IT" factor in her skating that would automatically put her above the other top U.S. ladies if they go clean. Her SP performance was nice and pleasant, not exceptional. I'd put Lindsay above Alysa.

What US lady can be counted on be be clean? Amber who can usually be counted on coming back to the field and can still meltdown at times? Isabeau who has struggled as she has grown in the last 18 months? Elyce and Sarah who are inexperienced and untested as contenders? I'm not sure any US lady has the IT factor right now. Alysa has shown to be a tough competitor all through her career and can usually be counted on to not cave in to pressure.

 

[skatfan]

I’ve always liked Lindsay but I disagree. Thorngren is an introvert and her skating is elegant but somber. Alysa brings joy to the ice. There’s no PCS component that covers this but I find her wonderful to watch.

Totally agree. I would add maturity of the phrasing to music and the seamless interweaving of the elements and choreography puts it ahead of any other womens SPs I’ve been this season. There are, for me, a couple of “Kwan-esque” moments in it.

 

[Karen-W]

What US lady can be counted on be be clean? Amber who can usually be counted on coming back to the field and can still meltdown at times? Isabeau who has struggled as she has grown in the last 18 months? Elyce and Sarah who are inexperienced and untested as contenders? I'm not sure any US lady has the IT factor right now.

Apart from Kaori, I'm not sure any woman in the world has the IT factor enough to be considered clutch. What I will say about Alysa is that when she was competing, she was a fairly steady competitor who could be relied upon to deliver pretty decent skates. She didn't always medal, but 3 years ago women's skating was dominated by the Russians to the point of suffocation and every other fed was glomming onto and grasping at any up-and-coming skater who looked to break through that stranglehold. I'm still not over Alysa losing out on a medal at NHK 2021 to Mana Kawabe, who has pretty much flamed out in the two seasons since. It remains to be seen how Alysa will fare with her new, mature figure and a different vibe for the discipline than when she left, but, frankly, if I'm given a choice between Alysa and Bradie for the 3rd spot at Worlds this year, or the 3rd spot on the 2026 Olympic team, I'm going with Alysa. That may change as the season progresses and we see how the other ladies perform. All I know is I'd feel pretty comfortable putting Alysa on a Worlds team that is looking to secure 3 spots for the Olympics.

 

[Coco]

If USFS comes into Nationals with an agenda that impacts calling, marks, etc., so help me...

There is a real opportunity here to reward skaters who step up and deliver in the face of overwhelming competition.

 

[skatinggold]

Apart from Kaori, I'm not sure any woman in the world has the IT factor enough to be considered clutch. What I will say about Alysa is that when she was competing, she was a fairly steady competitor who could be relied upon to deliver pretty decent skates. She didn't always medal, but 3 years ago women's skating was dominated by the Russians to the point of suffocation and every other fed was glomming onto and grasping at any up-and-coming skater who looked to break through that stranglehold. I'm still not over Alysa losing out on a medal at NHK 2021 to Mana Kawabe, who has pretty much flamed out in the two seasons since. It remains to be seen how Alysa will fare with her new, mature figure and a different vibe for the discipline than when she left, but, frankly, if I'm given a choice between Alysa and Bradie for the 3rd spot at Worlds this year, or the 3rd spot on the 2026 Olympic team, I'm going with Alysa. That may change as the season progresses and we see how the other ladies perform. All I know is I'd feel pretty comfortable putting Alysa on a Worlds team that is looking to secure 3 spots for the Olympics.

Alysa is going to be on the podium in Nationals for sure if judged fairly without favoritism. I'll say 75% she will get GOLD. Why? Isabeau's jumps are a mess, even if Isabeau is clean, those jumps are not going to get GOEs if judged fairly and her jumps are currently failing her miserably. Has Amber ever skate two clean programs in her skating career?

 

[tony]

Alysa is going to be on the podium in Nationals for sure if judged fairly without favoritism. I'll say 75% she will get GOLD. Why? Isabeau's jumps are a mess, even if Isabeau is clean, those jumps are not going to get GOEs if judged fairly and her jumps are currently failing her miserably. Has Amber ever skate two clean programs in her skating career?

Judged fairly as in Alysa suddenly starts rotating her own jumps fully?

There’s a lot of depth and potential this season.

 

[Karen-W]

Alysa is going to be on the podium in Nationals for sure if judged fairly without favoritism. I'll say 75% she will get GOLD. Why? Isabeau's jumps are a mess, even if Isabeau is clean, those jumps are not going to get GOEs if judged fairly and her jumps are currently failing her miserably. Has Amber ever skate two clean programs in her skating career?

Dude. Again, see below but amend it to "clean program..." in place of "quads".

Let's just wait and see how she does in the FS tomorrow before we start talking quads, okay? Anyone who reviewed her FS protocol from Skate St Moritz last month should be prepared for stamina issues.

Yes, the stamina issues will likely be resolved by then, but who knows how the GP season will play out and who's going to be "hot" having possibly qualified for or medaled at the GPF coming into Nats.

 

[Jammers]

Apart from Kaori, I'm not sure any woman in the world has the IT factor enough to be considered clutch. What I will say about Alysa is that when she was competing, she was a fairly steady competitor who could be relied upon to deliver pretty decent skates. She didn't always medal, but 3 years ago women's skating was dominated by the Russians to the point of suffocation and every other fed was glomming onto and grasping at any up-and-coming skater who looked to break through that stranglehold. I'm still not over Alysa losing out on a medal at NHK 2021 to Mana Kawabe, who has pretty much flamed out in the two seasons since. It remains to be seen how Alysa will fare with her new, mature figure and a different vibe for the discipline than when she left, but, frankly, if I'm given a choice between Alysa and Bradie for the 3rd spot at Worlds this year, or the 3rd spot on the 2026 Olympic team, I'm going with Alysa. That may change as the season progresses and we see how the other ladies perform. All I know is I'd feel pretty comfortable putting Alysa on a Worlds team that is looking to secure 3 spots for the Olympics.

I'm still not over Alysa not taking part in the team competition and being a Olympic medal winner which turned out to be Gold. She wouldn't have had to been spectacular for the US to win as we saw with how Karen skated and Alysa even in her worst skating that season skated better then that.

 

[Tesla]

Just let her skate and enjoy the ride.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm still not over Alysa not taking part in the team competition and being a Olympic medal winner which turned out to be Gold. Even not at her best she probably finishes as high if not higher then Karen did.

Ehhhhhh... While I think Alysa or Mariah both would have done better than Karen in the TE, I'm actually okay with her having that TE medal because she IS the main reason the US had 3 women in both 2018 and 2022 thanks to her 4th place finishes at 2017 & 2021 Worlds. I realize Alysa wasn't even eligible to compete at 2021 Worlds and with her, we may not have had to rely entirely on Karen to save our bacon, but that happened two pre-Olympic Worlds in a row, and that deserves some sort of reward. Aside from that, knowing what we now know about the interest the Chinese government had in Alysa & her dad, I really understand why she was sent over to Beijing as late as possible and not included in the TE as a result.

ETA - having said that, there's a sentimental part of me that really wants her on the 2026 Olympic team so that she can have a normal Olympic experience and, hopefully, get that TE medal she missed out on in Beijing.

 

[leilaofpaper]

Ehhhhhh... While I think Alysa or Mariah both would have done better than Karen in the TE, I'm actually okay with her having that TE medal because she IS the main reason the US had 3 women in both 2018 and 2022 thanks to her 4th place finishes at 2017 & 2021 Worlds. I realize Alysa wasn't even eligible to compete at 2021 Worlds and with her, we may not have had to rely entirely on Karen to save our bacon, but that happened two pre-Olympic Worlds in a row, and that deserves some sort of reward. Aside from that, knowing what we now know about the interest the Chinese government had in Alysa & her dad, I really understand why she was sent over to Beijing as late as possible and not included in the TE as a result.

ETA - having said that, there's a sentimental part of me that really wants her on the 2026 Olympic team so that she can have a normal Olympic experience and, hopefully, get that TE medal she missed out on in Beijing.

IIRC, wasn’t the reason Karen was chosen for the team event because both Alysa and Mariah had COVID during/after Nationals and needed more recovery time?

 

[Karen-W]

IIRC, wasn’t the reason Karen was chosen for the team event because both Alysa and Mariah had COVID during/after Nationals and needed more recovery time?

I believe that Alysa having Covid at Nats was the official reason given. Raf made it clear, either in Beijing or right before, that it had been made clear to him at Nats that Mariah was not in the conversation for the TE despite winning Nats. Raf wasn't happy that Karen got consideration ahead of the Nat'l champ.

 

[Vagabond]

The quad days are over

Happiness hit her like a train on a track
Coming towards her, stuck still, no turning back
She hid around corners and she hid under beds
She killed it with kisses and from it she fled
With every bubble, she sank with a drink
And washed it away down the kitchen sink

The quad days are over
The quad days are done
The horses are coming
So you better run

Run fast for your mother, run fast for your father
Run for your children, for your sisters and brothers
Leave all your love and your longing behind
You can’t carry it with you if you want to survive
The quad days are over
The quad days are done
Can you hear the horses?
‘Cause here they come

And I never wanted anything from you
Except everything you had
And what was left after that too, oh

Happiness hit her like a bullet in the back
Struck from a great height
By someone who should have known better than that

The quad days are over
The quad days are done
Can you hear the horses?
‘Cause here they come

Run fast for your mother, run fast for your father
Run for your children, for your sisters and brothers
Leave all your love and your longing behind
You can’t carry it with you if you want to survive
The quad days are over
The quad days are done
Can you hear the horses?
‘Cause here they come

The quad days are over
The quad days are done (Here they come)
The horses are coming
So you better run (Here they come)
The quad days are over
The quad days are done (Here they come)
The horses are coming
So you better run
​

 

[Bulletsdad]

Judged fairly as in Alysa suddenly starts rotating her own jumps fully?

There’s a lot of depth and potential this season.

Let's remember, Alysa has just started her comeback. I think she'll qualify for, and do well at worlds with fully rotated jumps. I understand she's practicing her 3a and hopes to have it back for the Olympic season.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Happiness hit her like a train on a track
Coming towards her, stuck still, no turning back
She hid around corners and she hid under beds
She killed it with kisses and from it she fled
With every bubble, she sank with a drink
And washed it away down the kitchen sink

The quad days are over
The quad days are done
The horses are coming
So you better run

Run fast for your mother, run fast for your father
Run for your children, for your sisters and brothers
Leave all your love and your longing behind
You can’t carry it with you if you want to survive
The quad days are over
The quad days are done
Can you hear the horses?
‘Cause here they come

And I never wanted anything from you
Except everything you had
And what was left after that too, oh

Happiness hit her like a bullet in the back
Struck from a great height
By someone who should have known better than that

The quad days are over
The quad days are done
Can you hear the horses?
‘Cause here they come

Run fast for your mother, run fast for your father
Run for your children, for your sisters and brothers
Leave all your love and your longing behind
You can’t carry it with you if you want to survive
The quad days are over
The quad days are done
Can you hear the horses?
‘Cause here they come

The quad days are over
The quad days are done (Here they come)
The horses are coming
So you better run (Here they come)
The quad days are over
The quad days are done (Here they come)
The horses are coming
So you better run
​

Gawd I hate the real version of that song.

 

[Vagabond]

Gawd I hate the real version of that song.

But how do you feel about the end of the quad days?

I say, "Good-bye, quads; hello, maturity."

Your music may vary.

 

[Coco]

Part of the issue with ladies in the team event was that men and dance earned the right to substitute if the leaders wanted to, so there was always going to be only one lady. Karen's world ranking was higher than Mariah's, wasn't it?