Discussing Tuberidze's latest interview

[Scott512]

I don't know how you can infer she told it because "she thinks it makes her look good". She was just telling a story.

And, again, I asked where she was insluting/bagging anyone in the interview. She does have a tendency to come of across as "my way or the highway", however I don't see that she trashed or "blamed" anyone in this interview so egregiously as was described, based on these quotes

I agree with you and your assessment of the interview. There is a lot of overreaction to it. I don't think the great Coach comes off well but I don't think she gives two bleeps about it either.

By the way all the Russian parents know who EG is know what her methods are and they still take your fix there there are lines down the street of parents bringing their children to her.

But my question is why now why right before Nationals Europeans in the Olympics do you do this interview which is going to create a lot of controversy and buzz? My guess it's 2 take the Heat and any controversy away from her daughter Diana and her dance team which won the silver medal at Nationals and because of injuries and illness have a good chance to actually go to the Olympics. There are a lot of people in Russia unhappy with the amazing rise of Diana and Gleb which is virtually impossible for a new dance in their first year.

I can't see how Diana and gleb will be one of the top two Russian dance teams and be in the team competition but I'm sure that's what Eteri thought is. D & G are so inexperienced as a team they may kill Russia's chances for the team gold like Kolyada did 4 years ago.

Whatever's going on I don't like the timing of this interview this coach is usually very quiet Sergei never says anything it's always DG that runs his mouth causing problems.

I'm sure EG grew up in the era in Russia where it's my way or the highway and she is continuing to that for the most part.

I also think this coach needs a PR team around her and her kids. Danil needs PR help. He puts his foot in his mouth a lot.

I will say this and this is a general life concept for me anyone of ever life in sports or music or acting or politics once I learn more about them I usually like them less. And that's kind of the way I feel about Eteri at this point. I liked her more when Alina and Zhenya had their legendary Olympic duel. Eteri could be better so much better in different ways but again she probably doesn't give 2 bleeps.

I've also heard that Mishin is not nice. That was a surprise to hear but I shouldn't be surprised. These people are great coaches that doesn't mean they're going to be great in every aspect of life.

 

[olympic]

This all reminds me of speculation dating back to the 70s when Korbut and Comaneci came on the scene. Because they were small and thin, there were lots of rumors of starvation, overtraining and rough coaching methods in the USSR and ROM.

IDK. I think based on what is being discussed, it sounds like ET is more mentally abusive than physically abusive. Some of the women like Trusova had the opportunity to train w/ other coaches but willingly went back to her. There is more than 1 example. Why? Do ET's skaters feel that they are abused? Do they have Stockholm Syndrome? I can't get a fix on all this to make a judgment.

 

[becca]

This all reminds me of speculation dating back to the 70s when Korbut and Comaneci came on the scene. Because they were small and thin, there were lots of rumors of starvation, overtraining and rough coaching methods in the USSR and ROM.

IDK. I think based on what is being discussed, it sounds like ET is more mentally abusive than physically abusive. Some of the women like Trusova had the opportunity to train w/ other coaches but willingly went back to her. There is more than 1 example. Why? Do ET's skaters feel that they are abused? Do they have Stockholm Syndrome? I can't get a fix on all this to make a judgment.

I don’t like ETs interviews but I think it’s a fine line. Lots of top coaches skaters developed eating disorders.

I don’t like the whole delay puberty. But I do think this type of sport well you do have to have control of your diet. It’s a fine line.

I think though good coaches can be strict tell it as it is. I think that praise to freely given can also not feel earned.

I do think the fact that her students go back says something.

As for all of her girls retire young I frankly think we need to give it a little time she is still fairly new.

My impression is the issue with her last two stars was more who was coming up after. They couldn’t do quads.

I think some of her current girls are very likely to stay in.

I don’t see Trusova retiring

 

[tony]

In Russia? Skaters down the bottom of the 18 at the Russian nationals usually do 7 triples FS. The only reason why they are at the bottom is because they do a mistake on a jump, have fall or mess up something and that is enough to get towards the bottom. But to qualify in this field in Russia, no one can qualify if they don’t have the full seven triples FS.

Read what I said. I didn’t say they were not attempting 7 triples. I said they were actually doing 5 or 6 triples in the program and still finishing near the bottom. ‘Ups’.

 

[mjb52]

I think a lot of us like Russia because it's colorful, dramatic, passionate, and it's appealing that the people in the figure skating world are often blunt and open in their interviews. The question is how to keep the good, while not making excuses for the bad. You can be honest and tough without being cruel or unkind. But I do think Russians themselves have to figure out where the line is. I've never seen the Viner rhythmic gymnastics documentary (in part because it just sounds awful to watch), but from what I've seen, Mamun doesn't seem to hold Viner's style against her; at the same time, she doesn't seem like she would repeat Viner's behavior. So some of this is about younger coaches breaking the cycle as they come up and figuring out how to preserve the identity of Russian skating and sports in general while still accommodating the changing norms of the modern world.

 

[Frau Muller]

Don’t forget that Russia (USSR before it) has a long ingrained tradition of extreme thinness being the non plus ultra in ballet…those lines of swans in Swan Lake, for example. It’s about beauty, not just ability to rotate.

 

[Hedwig]

This all reminds me of speculation dating back to the 70s when Korbut and Comaneci came on the scene. Because they were small and thin, there were lots of rumors of starvation, overtraining and rough coaching methods in the USSR and ROM.

yes. well. Your point being? Comaneci was with the Karolyis, well known for starving and abusing gymnasts and Olga Korbut was intimidated and raped by her coach.
So - all is well and we should just look away if new allegations are made about coaches starving and mentally absusing children?

 

[VGThuy]

With the Karyolis, a lot gymnasts left and came back to them. Kerri Strug being the one of the more famous examples. The made their gymnasts feel tough and prepared and knew how to get them competition-ready but years later they’re still figuring out their traumas with them. Even Strug slips in snarky comments about them years later. USAG let it slide for decades and now both them and the Karyolis face big fat lawsuits. It’s not just about the Nassar situation even though that took the most attention. It was the Ranch and the entire culture of abuse - physical, psychological, and emotional. If they were still running a gym, you know parents would know all of this and still flock to them as well.

 

[MacMadame]

It’s not just about the Nassar situation even though that took the most attention. It was the Ranch and the entire culture of abuse - physical, psychological, and emotional. If they were still running a gym, you know parents would know all of this and still flock to them as well.

This is clear when you see the lawsuit with 500 victims had 200 that were abused by people other than Nassar that USAG was not protecting athletes.

 

[olympic]

yes. well. Your point being? Comaneci was with the Karolyis, well known for starving and abusing gymnasts and Olga Korbut was intimidated and raped by her coach.
So - all is well and we should just look away if new allegations are made about coaches starving and mentally absusing children?

Has Comaneci accused the Karolyis of anything? I read her autobiography in the 80s long after she left them and she didn’t seem to have an opinion about them. I just remember when they defected she seemed lost or abandoned.

No. I am not suggesting we look the other way, but are there allegations in Russia that Eteri is abusing her pupils? Trusova and Kostornaia left and returned to her. I don’t know the evidence. So do we assume it is happening?

 

[Hedwig]

Comaneci left and came back as well.
Allegations against abusive coaches never stopped ambitious parents and kids to go somewhere
Did you see the documentary Golden, where the parents of Konor McClain (sp) talked about this and why they are sending their kid to a coach with abuse allegations and that children need tough love etc
This kind of thinking is very wide spread- even in this thread you can see it- even though the psychological damage is well known.

It is not the responsibility of the victims to speak out. They are- for the most part- still children. Brainwashed into thinking that this kind of behavior is okay and necessary to win. And if one of them speaks out then they are doubted and „but xy has not said anything“ and „she is making excuses“

It is our responsibility as adults to make sure that there are boundaries in what can happen if ambitious parents and ambitious coaches align.

And if someone is openly talking about withholding food and water from children, if they talk in the press about their pupils like DG does especially then I wish that Russia would step in and control the situation. Like the USAG should have stepped in with the Karolys every time they got a complaint. Did they? No, they even bribed gymnasts to keep their mouth shut. They gaslighted them and ended careers (Maggie Nichols anyone?)
So no it is not okay to look the other way and wait for hundreds of people to come forward if there are enough red flags to warrant an investigation

 

[TAHbKA]

The thing is that it's not Eteri who is withholding the food or whatever else. She is not living with these girls and she is not making their meals. All these underage girls have parents who are responsible for all that.
Why a parent from Nizhnii Tagil or Omsk or Izhevsk would be willing to starve/beat/use their kids if it means moving to Moscow and having the accommodation/food/job figured out for them by the Sambo/Russian figure skating federation etc is a different matter.
I absolutely don't get how did Medvedeva and Scherbakova end up being in that company though

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I’d ask if the people who think there’s nothing wrong with Eteri and her methods also think there’s nothing wrong with USAG churning through broken little girl after broken little girl because there’s always a next person to step up and take her place. But I’m afraid the answer would be yes.

Although even in that situation, gymnasts competed into their 20s.

 

[Wyliefan]

The thing is that it's not Eteri who is withholding the food or whatever else. She is not living with these girls and she is not making their meals. All these underage girls have parents who are responsible for all that.
Why a parent from Nizhnii Tagil or Omsk or Izhevsk would be willing to starve/beat/use their kids if it means moving to Moscow and having the accommodation/food/job figured out for them by the Sambo/Russian figure skating federation etc is a different matter.
I absolutely don't get how did Medvedeva and Scherbakova end up being in that company though

I don't deny that the parents play a huge role here, but did Eteri not say that she literally took food off Shelepen's plate?

 

[Hedwig]

it is not as if parents are glorified great people all of a sudden because they became parents. We know of enough examples where parents abuse their kids out of a myriad of reasons.
And all parents who bring their child into a highly competitive sport have to be aware that there are lots of coaches who take winning over the welfare of your child.
The child meanwhile often hides absuse either because it does not know that what is happening is not right or because they don't wanna disappoint - to get to that stage often whole families have made a lot of sacrificies like selling their house in order to afford training, move with the child away from the rest of the family for training etc pp

so what is wrong is that there is a system in place that subsidizes and rewards training environments that are not healthy for children. There will always be parents and children willing to go into this environment because they as well value winning and are not aware of the costs. Anyone watching the testimonies of the Nassar victims cannot in good conscience defend this kind of training (and the testimonies were not about Nassar alone but about how you had no adults around you that you could trust and being so abused that you thought everything was your fault or you too fat and no one around you was kind so that someone like Nassar who was even a little bit kind could use this against the children and gain their trust in order to abuse them even worse)

 

[olympic]

Comaneci left and came back as well.
Allegations against abusive coaches never stopped ambitious parents and kids to go somewhere
Did you see the documentary Golden, where the parents of Konor McClain (sp) talked about this and why they are sending their kid to a coach with abuse allegations and that children need tough love etc
This kind of thinking is very wide spread- even in this thread you can see it- even though the psychological damage is well known.

It is not the responsibility of the victims to speak out. They are- for the most part- still children. Brainwashed into thinking that this kind of behavior is okay and necessary to win. And if one of them speaks out then they are doubted and „but xy has not said anything“ and „she is making excuses“

It is our responsibility as adults to make sure that there are boundaries in what can happen if ambitious parents and ambitious coaches align.

And if someone is openly talking about withholding food and water from children, if they talk in the press about their pupils like DG does especially then I wish that Russia would step in and control the situation. Like the USAG should have stepped in with the Karolys every time they got a complaint. Did they? No, they even bribed gymnasts to keep their mouth shut. They gaslighted them and ended careers (Maggie Nichols anyone?)
So no it is not okay to look the other way and wait for hundreds of people to come forward if there are enough red flags to warrant an investigation

What is the threshold for an outside agency to step in? What are the rules in Russia regarding investigation of abuse?

 

[Trillian]

I’d ask if the people who think there’s nothing wrong with Eteri and her methods also think there’s nothing wrong with USAG churning through broken little girl after broken little girl because there’s always a next person to step up and take her place. But I’m afraid the answer would be yes.

Although even in that situation, gymnasts competed into their 20s.

Were gymnasts competing into their 20s in the late 80s/early’90s in the U.S.? My impression is that the situation was at its worst (in some ways) then, before the ‘Little Girls in Pretty Boxes’ era when there was bad publicity that spurred at least a few changes. The ‘92 Olympics is the first I was old enough to remember watching and I’m not a huge gymnastics fan, so I’m not sure if older gymnasts were competing lower in the ranks back then. But if you look at a photo of the U.S. Olympic team on the podium in ‘92, it’s a clearly a lineup of starving children. I don’t know how any adult who saw that wasn’t horrified.

I hope at some point people realize that none of the Russian girls skating today are actually getting a chance to fulfill their considerable potential because they can’t compete long enough to fully develop their skills, so it’s a loss for everyone. We don’t even need new age restrictions or jump limitations, we just need changes to the scoring to accurately reflect that physically mature skaters are better overall skaters, which would disincentivize starving and overtraining children. Like that era in gymnastics, I think this is all going to look pretty ugly 30 years from now.

But I’ve hit my limit for engaging with people who want to make excuses for what we’re seeing now. I guess we’ll see how many broken girls it takes this time for people to finally admit there’s a problem.

 

[becca]

I am not interested in defending Eteri Persay. I don’t know enough of the situation.

I feel like in skating and in a lot of sports you probably have to watch your diet.

I do think the Mishin way of teach them great technique is the best way.

Lots of even top gold standard coaches have had skaters with eating disorders. There really a balance.

As for the skaters parents looking at some of the photos of where some come from it’s hard to see how parents are being bad for taking the opportunity to get their family out. And that includes the child in skating.


It reminds me of Lebron James he said he won’t let his kids do football. He did football as a kid and he has no regrets about it. It’s what got him into sports and his situation wasn’t great as a child.

But his children don’t need to do that risk.

Have any Eteri students made the kind of complaints Karolyi did?

I actually think at least one of her current students is going to stay in. Trusova for example is what 17? I get the sense she will stay around for awhile.

Alina has also said she will stay for four years more. Part of why her last two Olympic medalists quit was they couldn’t compete technically.

 

[layman]

You have to give it to Eteri for her cojones! She's absolutely shameless and brazen!

She comes out in multiple interviews saying, "yes...I abuse (starve, shame, ridicule, overwork, break...) my skaters, so what," then she foists her talent-less daughter as Russia's No. 2 Ice Dance team! Why stop at #2 by the way? She should go for #1. She's that brazen. I don't know what held her back.

I want, more than anything, to take that crocodile grin off Eteri's face and since I can't knock it off her face, I want to see her get a comeuppance that's so big, so complete, that it turns that ugly grin into the broadest frown that you have ever seen!

 

[tony]

You have to give it to Eteri for her cojones! She's absolutely shameless and brazen!

She comes out in multiple interviews saying, "yes...I abuse (starve, shame, ridicule, overwork, break...) my skaters, so what," then she foists her talent-less daughter as Russia's No. 2 Ice Dance team! Why stop at #2 by the way? She should go for #1. She's that brazen. I don't know what held her back.

I want, more than anything, to take that crocodile grin off Eteri's face and since I can't knock it off her face, I want to see her get a comeuppance that's so big, so complete, that it turns that ugly grin into the broadest frown that you have ever seen!

Regardless of how you feel about her and how you think you constantly know what is going on, her daughter is actually a good skater and the two teams behind her at Nationals aren't exactly brilliant, especially the one that most people here seem to love. But I'll wait for all the ice dance 'experts' to try to argue otherwise and continue to shit-talk someone by association.

 

[On My Own]

Whenever I see a thread about Eteri here or elsewhere, I start thinking of Figure Skating being an Olympic sport. Maybe if it were removed, some people would unglue themselves from their screens and start seeking the extensive therapy they clearly need?

 

[layman]

Regardless of how you feel about her and how you think you constantly know what is going on, her daughter is actually a good skater and the two teams behind her at Nationals aren't exactly brilliant, especially the one that most people here seem to love. But I'll wait for all the ice dance 'experts' to try to argue otherwise and continue to shit-talk someone by association.

A team that could not even win a World Junior Championship medal (of any color - ever) does not (in an normal world) become a world beater overnight. This is absolutely unheard of in Ice Dance.

Papadakis and Cizeron won the Silver at the 2013 World Junior Championships, they came in 13th at their first Senior World Championships in 2014, the next season, and then won the 2015 Senior World Championships. That was what a "meteoric" rise in Ice Dance used to look like.

Davis and Smolkin never won a World Junior medal of any color (rightfully so), therefore they should not be threatening Senior Dance Podiums in their Senior Debut year. There is no way that this can be legitimately justified. This reeks of the most disgusting kind of corruption and back-room politics (and has Eteri's oily finger-prints all over it).

 

[tony]

A team that could not even win a World Junior Championship medal (of any color - ever) does not (in an normal world) become a world beater overnight. This is absolutely unheard of in Ice Dance.

Papadakis and Cizeron won the Silver at the 2013 World Junior Championships, they came in 13th at their first Senior World Championships in 2014, the next season, and then won the 2015 Senior World Championships. That was what a "meteoric" rise in Ice Dance used to look like.

Davis and Smolkin never won a World Junior medal of any color (rightfully so), therefore they should not be threatening Senior Dance Podiums in their Senior Debut year. There is no way that this can be legitimately justified. This reeks of the most disgusting kind of corruption and back-room politics (and has Eteri's oily finger-prints all over it).

How ignorant can be with their bias towards the mother of a skater that they continue on with this nonsense and actually believe they have a case?

There was no junior international season at all in 2021. Davis was injured but did come back domestically at the end of last season, and we don't know how the rest of the season would've played out for any skaters / who was hindered by shutdowns. But D/S were 5th at Junior Worlds in 2020 so it's not like they came out of nowhere suddenly. Should no one have not improved in the long break junior skaters had in the 2020/2021 season? Should young skaters not have grown into stronger skaters? Take P/C and imagine their 2014 season was during a pan demic. What if they became a top 8 or so team the next season instead of winning Worlds? SCANDAL? I think not.

Zagorski/Guerriero were a comfortable 3rd for an entire Olympic cycle in Russian skating. They are not a factor this year, but it wasn't as if their results made them competitive with the elite of the dance world anyways. No other team has stepped it up during the last cycle, and since you're claiming Davis is talentless, I'd love to hear your dance expertise as to why you're saying such compared go the teams just below them. I'm still waiting for that!

Davis and Smolkin got high scores at an event that pretty much every damn team across the board got high scores at. "But Takahashi skated well!" argues some, while in the same breath claiming it was Tutberidze's work alone that her daughter and only her daughter benefitted. This is common sense to take 2 seconds and look at the huge rise in scores for nearly every team from that event. Otherwise, this team was not medaling on the Grand Prix and not threatening for senior Olympic/Worlds podiums at this point, so your argument is moronic and fueled by your seething hate for Tutberidze. 100%.

Who knows what happens by the Olympics, but a finish somewhere between 8-10 (if that) is where Zagorski/Guerriero were likely to finish if healthy and still third-best, but they've been in that grouping for four years now. There's nothing that indicates they are better than Stepanova/Bukin or any of the would've-been 6 Grand Prix Finalists. There's not even data suggesting they will beat whichever Spanish team goes, and they wouldn't have beaten the Brits at Skate Canada had they not made a huge mistake. FB/S and a healthy Hawayek/Baker (or Green/Parsons) could be ahead of them, too. So all this over 12th place or maybe a few spots higher?

BTW- Taschlerova/Taschler were 16th in 2020 Junior Worlds and are likely to slot in somewhere from 15-20 at the Olympics. Scandal!

 

[Sylvia]

A team that could not even win a World Junior Championship medal (of any color - ever) does not (in an normal world) become a world beater overnight. This is absolutely unheard of in Ice Dance.

Papadakis and Cizeron won the Silver at the 2013 World Junior Championships, they came in 13th at their first Senior World Championships in 2014, the next season, and then won the 2015 Senior World Championships. That was what a "meteoric" rise in Ice Dance used to look like.

Maia & Alex Shibutani were 4th at 2010 Junior Worlds and won bronze at 2011 Worlds.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I have very strong feelings about the Eteri and Karolyi types, and I will keep them to myself rather then say something that will get me banned wink wink.

 

[layman]

Maia & Alex Shibutani were 4th at 2010 Junior Worlds and won bronze at 2011 Worlds.

Do you think Davis & Smolkin deserved to be 2nd at Russian Nationals based on their skating?

The Shibs BTW won Silver at the 2009 World Junior Championships before going on to win the Bronze at the 2011 World Senior Championships.

Davis & Smolkin, I must repeat, have never won a World Junior Medal of any color - ever.

 

[BlueRidge]

Do you think Davis & Smolkin deserved to be 2nd at Russian Nationals based on their skating?

No they should have been third, but SinKats withdrew.

I think Davis & Smolkin should have placed where they did. And count me as a huge fan of Annabelle Morosov who would rather see her in any given competition, but at this point Davis & Smolkin are better and at Russian Nationals they bested Khuda with their skating as well. Not overwhelmingly but I think its easy to get carried away over Tutberidze's influence. Its there for sure but Diana Davis is not "talentless."

 

[muffinplus]

No they should have been third, but SinKats withdrew.

I think Davis & Smolkin should have placed where they did. And count me as a huge fan of Annabelle Morosov who would rather see her in any given competition, but at this point Davis & Smolkin are better and at Russian Nationals they bested Khuda with their skating as well. Not overwhelmingly but I think its easy to get carried away over Tutberidze's influence. Its there for sure but Diana Davis is not "talentless."

And why did they best Khuda...

 

[kwanfan1818]

Maia & Alex Shibutani were 4th at 2010 Junior Worlds and won bronze at 2011 Worlds.

But they were 2nd at 2009 Junior Worlds, their first junior season. And they won two GP's and GPF bronze in the 2009-10 season.

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ Thanks @kwanfan1818 - was too tired to check.

Do you think Davis & Smolkin deserved to be 2nd at Russian Nationals based on their skating?

Dunno. Haven't watched.