Discussing Tuberidze's latest interview

[alexikeguchi]

No they should have been third, but SinKats withdrew.

I think Davis & Smolkin should have placed where they did. And count me as a huge fan of Annabelle Morosov who would rather see her in any given competition, but at this point Davis & Smolkin are better and at Russian Nationals they bested Khuda with their skating as well. Not overwhelmingly but I think its easy to get carried away over Tutberidze's influence. Its there for sure but Diana Davis is not "talentless."

I agree 100%. I saw Davis/Smolkin live at Skate Canada, and they more than held their own in comparison to the other young/recently out of juniors teams. They were powerful yet neat, had strong and secure edges, performed with a lot of commitment, and have great chemistry together (not sure if they're an off ice couple as well?) I don't know that Moulin Rouge is a fantastic choice given the relatively recent memory of Virtue/Moir, but they didn't embarrass themselves either. Given Z/G's health and stamina issues, I think Davis/Smolkin are a plausible #3 team for Russia and have strong potential to move higher in the next quad.

 

[Willin]

I am not interested in defending Eteri Persay. I don’t know enough of the situation.

I feel like in skating and in a lot of sports you probably have to watch your diet.

I do think the Mishin way of teach them great technique is the best way.

Lots of even top gold standard coaches have had skaters with eating disorders. There really a balance.

As for the skaters parents looking at some of the photos of where some come from it’s hard to see how parents are being bad for taking the opportunity to get their family out. And that includes the child in skating.


It reminds me of Lebron James he said he won’t let his kids do football. He did football as a kid and he has no regrets about it. It’s what got him into sports and his situation wasn’t great as a child.

But his children don’t need to do that risk.

Have any Eteri students made the kind of complaints Karolyi did?

I actually think at least one of her current students is going to stay in. Trusova for example is what 17? I get the sense she will stay around for awhile.

Alina has also said she will stay for four years more. Part of why her last two Olympic medalists quit was they couldn’t compete technically.

Watching your diet for sports isn't restricting your intake. In Russia, or at least in Eteri's camp, it seems restrictive eating is the only way to go when in fact this is awful for athletes. Restrictive eating decreases bone strength leading to fractures, increases fatigue leading to more injuries, and decreases muscle mass. This is well researched and shown again and again to be bad for athletes.

Watching your diet for sports is eating a carefully crafted diet constructed by dietitians with sports-related training. USFS has at least one that shares recipes with skaters at champs camp. Swimmers eat 6000-8000 calories/day, but it's carefully planned out. NBA and NFL players hire personal chefs trained in proper athletic diets. College athletics departments hire staff and research optimal diets for muscle building and nutrition in each sport. Gatorade was created specifically for post-workout recovery.

This is where the US and Western sports are headed: careful nutrition. Skating is late in picking this up, but it's certainly becoming a much larger facet of elite skating centers. In Colorado Springs the skaters work with USOTC's dietician. Elite coaches like Brian Orser and Frank Carrol had/have dieticians they refer their skaters to. Even Rafael Artunyan, who famously called one of his skaters a cow, changed his opinion on weight upon seeing Adam Rippon and Ashley Wagner's success - though I would imagine he has a dietician he refers skaters to.

 

[becca]

Watching your diet for sports isn't restricting your intake. In Russia, or at least in Eteri's camp, it seems restrictive eating is the only way to go when in fact this is awful for athletes. Restrictive eating decreases bone strength leading to fractures, increases fatigue leading to more injuries, and decreases muscle mass. This is well researched and shown again and again to be bad for athletes.

Watching your diet for sports is eating a carefully crafted diet constructed by dietitians with sports-related training. USFS has at least one that shares recipes with skaters at champs camp. Swimmers eat 6000-8000 calories/day, but it's carefully planned out. NBA and NFL players hire personal chefs trained in proper athletic diets. College athletics departments hire staff and research optimal diets for muscle building and nutrition in each sport. Gatorade was created specifically for post-workout recovery.

This is where the US and Western sports are headed: careful nutrition. Skating is late in picking this up, but it's certainly becoming a much larger facet of elite skating centers. In Colorado Springs the skaters work with USOTC's dietician. Elite coaches like Brian Orser and Frank Carrol had/have dieticians they refer their skaters to. Even Rafael Artunyan, who famously called one of his skaters a cow, changed his opinion on weight upon seeing Adam Rippon and Ashley Wagner's success - though I would imagine he has a dietician he refers skaters to.

Honestly I agree with this idea. I am not supporting folks starving but learning to manage.

I imagine there is an ideal weight. Not necessarily stick figure but an ideal weight

 

[Willin]

@becca Interestingly enough a lot of the diets require a lot of eating. NBA or NFL diets are often 3000-4000 calories/day, and swimming is 6000-8000 as I said previously. It all depends on activity level and what you're trying to do. For instance, many athlete diets are very heavy in proteins to help build muscle - lots of chicken and beans. But of course lots of fruits and veggies as well. There's massive amounts of hydration as well. Hydration lowers fatigue, lowering injury risk and improving performance. As opposed to Eteri, who apparently teaches skaters that even a little bit of water weight is bad and they need to be dehydrated at competitions to not gain weight, most elite (and non-elite) athletes drink a gallon (3.7L) or more of water a day.

 

[Ananas Astra]

I have already watched the first part of her interview and I don't find anything offensive in it.
But I also grew up in Germany in a Soviet household, and my figure skating coach was a lot like Tutberidze, but she was from Poland.
Of course, Tutberidze is not perfect, but at least, she is cuddlig her puppy during the interview and she is clearly nervous.
I just cannot hate people who love dogs. And yes, I know that even Hitler loved dogs. Comparing Eteri to Hitler would be extremely wrong because she, at least, didn't gas people whom she didn't like.

 

[euterpe]

I agree 100%. I saw Davis/Smolkin live at Skate Canada, and they more than held their own in comparison to the other young/recently out of juniors teams. They were powerful yet neat, had strong and secure edges, performed with a lot of commitment, and have great chemistry together (not sure if they're an off ice couple as well?) I don't know that Moulin Rouge is a fantastic choice given the relatively recent memory of Virtue/Moir, but they didn't embarrass themselves either. Given Z/G's health and stamina issues, I think Davis/Smolkin are a plausible #3 team for Russia and have strong potential to move higher in the next quad.

Skate Canada was D/S's lowest score and placement of the season so far.
D/S did Cup of Austria one weekend, and Warsaw Cup the next, and gained 15 points in their score in one week. Then their Russian Nationals score a month later was higher than Gilles/Poirier's at IDF.

207.70 3rd Russian Nationals 12/21
199.90 1st Warsaw Cup CS 11/21
184.62 4th Cup of Austria CS 11/21
180.57 5th Skate Canada 10/21
190.63 2nd US Intl FS Classic 9/21

 

[tony]

Skate Canada was D/S's lowest score and placement of the season so far.
D/S did Cup of Austria one weekend, and Warsaw Cup the next, and gained 15 points in their score in one week. Then their Russian Nationals score a month later was higher than Gilles/Poirier's at IDF.

207.70 3rd Russian Nationals 12/21
199.90 1st Warsaw Cup CS 11/21
184.62 4th Cup of Austria CS 11/21
180.57 5th Skate Canada 10/21
190.63 2nd US Intl FS Classic 9/21

Here we go again.

A) many teams had a huge boost in scores at Warsaw Cup. You probably know this already. Muramoto/Takahashi also had a huge boost to win silver from the scores they received at NHK a week earlier, for starters = 10.66 more points. Shanaeva/Naryzhnyy went up 23.77 points over Skate Canada and they were potential direct competitors of Davis/Smolkin. Orihara/Pirinen went up 18.26 points. Lanaghan/Razguajevs went up 16.16 points from the same international you're referencing with D/S (Austria) 2 weeks earlier. Should I keep going, or is it only a Tutberidze thing?

B) And you know damn well that Gilles/Poirier are going to get crazy huge scores at Canadian Nationals next week, and so are many of the other skaters there and at US Nationals. Why are long-time fans of the sport (such as you) acting clueless about Nationals inflation, and why would you ever compare international scores to that of a National Championship? Are you worried that D/S are going to challenge Gilles/Poirier at the Olympics?

Let's keep bringing in the 'but, but, but.....' selective readers or those who can't be bothered to spend more than 3 minutes looking up stats because it won't fit their argument.

 

[Gris]

Davis / Smolkin are surely not talentless, their skill level is at least on par with (maybe even better than) teams ranked 3-6 at Nationals this year and there's nothing scandalous about them being in the contention for Russia #3. (And yes the Warsaw Cup scores shouldn't be taken seriously)

However, on the other hand, the push is also very obvious - just check the score gap.

 

[love_skate2011]

Watching your diet for sports isn't restricting your intake. In Russia, or at least in Eteri's camp, it seems restrictive eating is the only way to go when in fact this is awful for athletes. Restrictive eating decreases bone strength leading to fractures, increases fatigue leading to more injuries, and decreases muscle mass. This is well researched and shown again and again to be bad for athletes.

Watching your diet for sports is eating a carefully crafted diet constructed by dietitians with sports-related training. USFS has at least one that shares recipes with skaters at champs camp. Swimmers eat 6000-8000 calories/day, but it's carefully planned out. NBA and NFL players hire personal chefs trained in proper athletic diets. College athletics departments hire staff and research optimal diets for muscle building and nutrition in each sport. Gatorade was created specifically for post-workout recovery.

This is where the US and Western sports are headed: careful nutrition. Skating is late in picking this up, but it's certainly becoming a much larger facet of elite skating centers. In Colorado Springs the skaters work with USOTC's dietician. Elite coaches like Brian Orser and Frank Carrol had/have dieticians they refer their skaters to. Even Rafael Artunyan, who famously called one of his skaters a cow, changed his opinion on weight upon seeing Adam Rippon and Ashley Wagner's success - though I would imagine he has a dietician he refers skaters to.

Tutberidze skaters keep improving every quad, the last they learned from Zagitova
Trusova is pure muscles, Valieva is not skinny but genetically has longer legs to spring jumps.

 

[Spun Silver]

I have already watched the first part of her interview and I don't find anything offensive in it.
But I also grew up in Germany in a Soviet household, and my figure skating coach was a lot like Tutberidze, but she was from Poland.
Of course, Tutberidze is not perfect, but at least, she is cuddlig her puppy during the interview and she is clearly nervous.
I just cannot hate people who love dogs. And yes, I know that even Hitler loved dogs. Comparing Eteri to Hitler would be extremely wrong because she, at least, didn't gas people whom she didn't like.

So wait, you're admitting you can't hate Hitler? I'm a dog-lover too but there's really zero moral weight attached to that. Who doesn't love unconditional love and loyalty? Especially a paranoid tyrant. Now dog-rescuing, perhaps.

 

[Bigbird]

Davis / Smolkin are surely not talentless, their skill level is at least on par with (maybe even better than) teams ranked 3-6 at Nationals this year and there's nothing scandalous about them being in the contention for Russia #3. (And yes the Warsaw Cup scores shouldn't be taken seriously)

However, on the other hand, the push is also very obvious - just check the score gap.

But let's face it neither K/B or M/B are memorable as teams because the men IMHO are relatively weak. Khuda was more impressive with her previous partners and Morozov completely overshadows her partner without even trying. Smolkin has some good skills and he knows how to show off both himself and his partner. So the result isn't surprising. Their skills as a team may not be the highest but their programs in terms of composition and packaging is easier to sell internationally. We need more accomplished male ice dancers. Is Drozd available for anyone?

 

[Ananas Astra]

So wait, you're admitting you can't hate Hitler? I'm a dog-lover too but there's really zero moral weight attached to that. Who doesn't love unconditional love and loyalty? Especially a paranoid tyrant. Now dog-rescuing, perhaps.

That was absolutely not my point.

 

[olympic]

Tutberidze skaters keep improving every quad, the last they learned from Zagitova
Trusova is pure muscles, Valieva is not skinny but genetically has longer legs to spring jumps.

Well ... improving in the sense they do more technically ambitious jumps, but technique and choreography are different stories.

 

[TAHbKA]

Am lost: there is the first part and the 2nd part. Where is the 3rd part?

 

[muffinplus]

Well ... improving in the sense they do more technically ambitious jumps, but technique and choreography are different stories.

Well Asher Hill said Kamila's quad toe -triple toe deserves the GOE she gets for it... and got the wrath fo the Fanyus... not saying he is the authority on FS but I keep hearing about this horrible technique thing...and, yes, Valieva may have some technique issues for instance (which are amplified to the 9s everywhere ), but her technique on the quads is clearly solid now that she has corrected the axis and has been complimented by actual FS analysts - who can't be all on Eteri's payroll.

 

[Coco]

But if you compare Med to Lipnitskaya, then Zagitova to Med, then Trusova & Scherbakova to Zagitova, then Valieva to T&S, there are improvements in posture, skating skills, jumping rhythm in combinations, runout on jumps, landing positions, etc.

Sometimes it feels like Eteri skaters are marked as though they have no faults, but she at least seems aware of what needs to be improved from one leading skater to the next.

Shout out to all the youth developmental coaches in Russia, while we are at it.

 

[becca]

But if you compare Med to Lipnitskaya, then Zagitova to Med, then Trusova & Scherbakova to Zagitova, then Valieva to T&S, there are improvements in posture, skating skills, jumping rhythm in combinations, runout on jumps, landing positions, etc.

Sometimes it feels like Eteri skaters are marked as though they have no faults, but she at least seems aware of what needs to be improved from one leading skater to the next.

Shout out to all the youth developmental coaches in Russia, while we are at it.

Exactly and Valieva is a special skater. She really is.

 

[VGThuy]

I do agree that it seems every generation of Eteri skaters improve from the last batch. I'm not saying they deserve all the GOE and PCS they get just by having Eteri by their name, but they aren't muscling the jumps as they used to though some are still adopting the Med Lutz/Loop technique which is just as egregious if not more so than an > jump.

 

[love_skate2011]

But if you compare Med to Lipnitskaya, then Zagitova to Med, then Trusova & Scherbakova to Zagitova, then Valieva to T&S, there are improvements in posture, skating skills, jumping rhythm in combinations, runout on jumps, landing positions, etc.

Sometimes it feels like Eteri skaters are marked as though they have no faults, but she at least seems aware of what needs to be improved from one leading skater to the next.

Shout out to all the youth developmental coaches in Russia, while we are at it.

Valieva and Trusova can be exceptions in technique and maybe longevity
but every quad they do learn to upgrade their previous "prototypes", Valieva is an upgrade compared to all the triple As

If you compare now from the previous, Tut skaters now have better built and muscles.
Shcherbakova is the only skinny girl at the moment but she is naturally skinny like Med, Petrosyan is not stick think either.

If you want skinny, look at Korean skaters who seem to all be copying as Yuna prototypes.

 

[Stephanie]

Well Asher Hill said Kamila's quad toe -triple toe deserves the GOE she gets for it... and got the wrath fo the Fanyus... not saying he is the authority on FS but I keep hearing about this horrible technique thing...and, yes, Valieva may have some technique issues for instance (which are amplified to the 9s everywhere ), but her technique on the quads is clearly solid now that she has corrected the axis and has been complimented by actual FS analysts - who can't be all on Eteri's payroll.

I don't have an issue with her quad technique but her technique on combinations, which Medvedeva had as well (and probably other Eteri skaters), where there is zero flow at all and she almost stops after the first jump is ugly and not ideal and should not receive such positive GOE.

 

[layman]

Tutberidze skaters keep improving every quad, the last they learned from Zagitova
Trusova is pure muscles, Valieva is not skinny but genetically has longer legs to spring jumps.

I think it's more accurate to say that Team Eteri are getting better and better at poaching skaters. Kostornaia, Trusova, and Valieva got good fundamentals from their developmental coaches. Eteri had nothing to do with it. I will give it to Eteri, that she has an eye for talent (that she can steal and then later take credit for, passing off said skaters as her own hard work).

 

[love_skate2011]

I think it's more accurate to say that Team Eteri are getting better and better at poaching skaters. Kostornaia, Trusova, and Valieva got good fundamentals from their developmental coaches. Eteri had nothing to do with it. I will give it to Eteri, that she has an eye for talent (that she can steal and then later take credit for, passing off said skaters as her own hard work).

Well Tutberidze rejected Muravieva and Zinina. I doubt Samodelkina will move too, she seems in very good coahing relationship with Davydov.
Akatieva isnt she a home rink grown talent ?

Plushenko poaches skaters too, Buynaova and so on !

 

[muffinplus]

I think it's more accurate to say that Team Eteri are getting better and better at poaching skaters. Kostornaia, Trusova, and Valieva got good fundamentals from their developmental coaches. Eteri had nothing to do with it. I will give it to Eteri, that she has an eye for talent (that she can steal and then later take credit for, passing off said skaters as her own hard work).

Your hate is really clouding your judgement. Kostornaia finished like 15th in juniors the year before she moved to Eteri... next junior season she looked like a completely transformed skater... And if Valieva got good fundamentals elsewhere, then her pre-rotation was also acquired elsewhere, make up your mind please...but we get it Eteri is just good at yelling at skaters... that's the key to success clearly Or I guess Dudakov does all the work...

 

[hanca]

I think it's more accurate to say that Team Eteri are getting better and better at poaching skaters. Kostornaia, Trusova, and Valieva got good fundamentals from their developmental coaches. Eteri had nothing to do with it. I will give it to Eteri, that she has an eye for talent (that she can steal and then later take credit for, passing off said skaters as her own hard work).

Isn’t that normal though that most of skaters change coaches several times during their careers? And Tutberidze doesn’t need to poach skaters. They are coming to her and asking her to accept them. It is not as if she kept asking skaters to join her school.

 

[love_skate2011]

Isn’t that normal though that most of skaters change coaches several times during their careers? And Tutberidze doesn’t need to poach skaters. They are coming to her and asking her to accept them. It is not as if she kept asking skaters to join her school.

and Tut is one of the few coaches who has a trial period before they are accepted, hence Zinina and Muravieva tried before

Plushenko was poaching more from Tutberidze, Zhilina, Trusova, Kostornaia and others, only just recently he started concentratting in home rink talents.

 

[pointbleu]

Has Comaneci accused the Karolyis of anything? I read her autobiography in the 80s long after she left them and she didn’t seem to have an opinion about them. I just remember when they defected she seemed lost or abandoned.

No. I am not suggesting we look the other way, but are there allegations in Russia that Eteri is abusing her pupils? Trusova and Kostornaia left and returned to her. I don’t know the evidence. So do we assume it is happening?

OMG, you sure haven’t read the secret police reports on Comaneci… How she was mistreated by Karoly.
It has been made public this summer.

This is worth being translated :

Un livre dévoile les souffrances de Nadia Comaneci sous Ceausescu

Basé sur des milliers de pages de rapports secrets déclassifiés, le livre "Nadia et la Securitate", paru récemment en Roumanie, révèle les mauvais traitements physiques et psychologiques subis par la prodigieuse gymnaste Nadia Comaneci de la part du régime communiste.

amp.rts.ch

 

[pointbleu]

About Comaneci never complaining about her coaches : https://www.firstpost.com/art-and-c...nflicted-on-her-by-her-coach-9544381.html/amp

 

[layman]

^^^ Thanks @kwanfan1818 - was too tired to check.

Dunno. Haven't watched.

That's easily fixed. Here are the skates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dswxs2MBGnk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s83PgACZgc

Looking closely at Davis and Smolkin’s performance in both the Short Dance and the Free Dance at Russian Nationals, I would not have had them in the top ten. They were criminally over-scored.

They are the most junior looking and the least polished of any of the Russian senior dancers. They skated slowly and carefully but still looked sloppy. Diana never holds a position fully, turns out her feet or extends her line. Nothing about her skating looks finished or polished. Gleb does a little better (his posture is a lot better than hers) but as a team they don’t look coordinated or in-sync. During the commentary after their Free Dance, Ted Barton admitted that they were a “little” out of sync in the twizzles. Anyone with eyes can see that they were totally out of sync!

In both programs they stayed mostly in the center of the Ice. There patterns were shallow and small. All the teams that placed below them showed better ice coverage and more speed.

Moreover, neither Diana nor Gleb seemed aware of the music that they were skating to. They never used the music to make choreographic points. None of their choreography was timed or held to make use of the music. It just looked sloppy. They looked slow and tentative in both dances…almost like deer caught in a spotlight.

I would put them around 10th through 7th in the Junior World rankings (exactly where they were placing last season) and I think that Davis and Smolkin were totally outclassed and outskated by the Russian Senior Dance teams who were placed below them. The judging of this completion was a total joke. The audience in Saint Petersburg seemed aware of this and so did the other dance teams.

 

[BlueRidge]

We all have trouble seeing around what is already in our brains.

 

[reut]

Am lost: there is the first part and the 2nd part. Where is the 3rd part?

This one I think (YouTube proposed it to me just now, although I didn't watch first two).