U.S. Men 2020-21 season news & updates

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her grace said:
Hiwatashi was top 3 and beat Zhou at 2020 nationals and was the reigning Jr. World Champion, but wasn't selected for the 2020 World team. You're acting like he's some no-name whose never came close to the World team when he's been first alternate two years in a row.
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I’m not saying he’s so no-name but people already sending Tomoki without at least a test skate are dismissing Vincent already and are propping Tomoki as if he’s clearly more consistent than Vincent and has such a perfect record. I find that to be fishy.
 
VGThuy said:
I’m not saying he’s so no-name but people already sending Tomoki without at least a test skate are dismissing Vincent already and are propping Tomoki as if he’s clearly more consistent than Vincent and has such a perfect record. I find that to be fishy.
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I agree it's all about the test skate, but worlds is over, and we need to find something to predict and speculate for the next 5 months, at least until jgp starts!
 
jlai said:
I agree it's all about the test skate, but worlds is over, and we need to find something to predict and speculate for the next 5 months, at least until jgp starts!
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Honestly, monitoring is needed. A lot of the US men after Nathan and Jason are capable of being brilliant or falling under the pressure big time. I don’t know Paniot enough yet to know if he’s a consistent hitter.
 
VGThuy said:
I’m not saying he’s so no-name but people already sending Tomoki without at least a test skate are dismissing Vincent already and are propping Tomoki as if he’s clearly more consistent than Vincent and has such a perfect record. I find that to be fishy.
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:huh:.

No one knows what USFS has in mind for determining who will go: closed skate off in Colorado Springs? Individual on-site monitoring? Results from summer competition(s), domestic or international?

And I don't see anyone arguing that Hiwatashi has a perfect record, just that it's not so inferior to Zhou's.

I would argue against Zhou if the results are close, but I don't think anyone has argued that USFS is going to make the decision without any input about how skaters are doing close to Nebelhorn.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
:huh:.

No one knows what USFS has in mind for determining who will go: closed skate off in Colorado Springs? Individual on-site monitoring? Results from summer competition(s), domestic or international?

I would argue against Zhou if the results are close, but I don't think anyone has argued that USFS is going to make the decision without any input about how skaters are doing close to Nebelhorn.
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They actually have based on past posts.
 
dinakt said:
What is there to say but pure gushing, when it is so unquestionably mind-blowing? I also was wondering why there is no more talk about Nathan, but maybe it is just so obvious:) I rewatched Chen's free skate many times already, and will rewatch it many times more. Too bad there were no lucky people in the audience (apart from skaters themselves) to see that.
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It was great. Wasn't it? I am on other message boards and there are his detractors: One commonality is that they believe his PCS are too high, but they are in a minority.

I also watched it from different broadcasts. I thought he added a few more nuanced movements to his program and his 2nd spin seemed 'bigger'. I can't describe it. Then, he cut loose in the final choreo sequence. I would like to see that level of intensity throughout the program, but it's probably impossible to maintain that and would not be able to jump the way he does. But, he just seemed to skate outside of himself if that makes sense.
 
Jackie Wong said on his men’s wrap up video (on Instagram) yesterday that it will be decided at champs camp.

I would probably send Vincent but only if he is really prepared. We know he tends to do better later in the season. If not, I might send Tomoki.
 
VGThuy said:
Honestly, monitoring is needed. A lot of the US men after Nathan and Jason are capable of being brilliant or falling under the pressure big time. I don’t know Paniot enough yet to know if he’s a consistent hitter.
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Paniot’s ISU bio is several years out of date, which isn’t surprising since he was trying to get released by Ukraine. It looks like Todd Eldredge wasn’t coaching him at the time, so these results may not reflect his current potential, but in 2018 he placed 30th at the Olympics, 25th at Euros, 12th at NHK, and 8th at the US international classic. In his only Worlds appearance in 2015, he placed 24th. He did somewhat better as a junior, placing 10th and 11th at Worlds. So, hard to tell how reliable or consistent he would be now. He attempted 4T and/or 4F at all of his 2018 comps with varying degrees of success.

 
Tavi said:
Paniot’s ISU bio is several years out of date, which isn’t surprising since he was trying to get released by Ukraine. It looks like Todd Eldredge wasn’t coaching him at the time, so these results may not reflect his current potential, but in 2018 he placed 30th at the Olympics, 25th at Euros, 12th at NHK, and 8th at the US international classic. In his only Worlds appearance in 2015, he placed 24th. He did somewhat better as a junior, placing 10th and 11th at Worlds. So, hard to tell how reliable or consistent he would be now. He attempted 4T and/or 4F at all of his 2018 comps with varying degrees of success.

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He had a major tendency to pop jumps while competing for Ukraine, so I am not getting excited until I see at least one or two more competitions where he skates well. (ETA I saw him compete in Philly a few years ago and he gets amazing height on his jumps - I hope the popping issue is under control now)
 
jlai said:
Not to mention, we don't know what pcs he will get either. That will be a major unknown.
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His PCS at Nebelhorn in 2017 ranged from 5.82 for Transitions in the Free Skating to 6.86 for Skating Skills in the Short Program. Even with a change of Federations, he might not receive significantly higher marks from international judges next season.
 
beckab81 said:
He had a major tendency to pop jumps while competing for Ukraine, so I am not getting excited until I see at least one or two more competitions where he skates well. (ETA I saw him compete in Philly a few years ago and he gets amazing height on his jumps - I hope the popping issue is under control now)
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It looks like his programs at Nats in 2021 were pretty clean, so significantly better than what he was doing in 2018, when he had a lot of falls, pops, and missed levels.

ETA @Vagabond, if his tech improvements hold in international competition, I’d guess his PCS would also improve at least somewhat. If you recall, at US Nats he went miraculously from 37 in the SP to 84 in the FS. ?
 
Looking ahead at qualifying,

among the skaters who need a sport in September...
Nam and Russia #3 (Aliev or someone else) can score quite high.
Paul Fentz and LITVINTSEV can earn a 230(with 80+ as his personal best).
Brandon's personal best is around 220+. Julian Yee's and Siao Him Fa's slightly lower (but Ponsart has scored a little better at his best). Lee (S Korea)'s also low. But 6 months is a long way away.

But I think a US man who can get 230+ even on a bad day should be able to get the spot. To be even safer, someone who can do 240+.
 
Spun Silver said:
Who are these Russians and what are they saying about Nathan?
streamable.com

Watch Nathan CHEN. World 2021, FS, 1 | Streamable

Watch "Nathan CHEN. World 2021, FS, 1" on Streamable.
streamable.com
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I'd like to know, too. I don't remember any of the Russian I studied in college, really, but I can tell you that after the skate there was one incomprehensible-to-me sentence, then the next two words were "Impossible...impossible" [nevozmozhno...nevozmozhno].

It was my impression that before Nathan started skating they weren't talking about him, but that's really just a guess.
 
Maybe his performance at Worlds will light a fire under Vincent so that he is well prepared for the early part of the season? He's been to the Olympics once, so he likely understands the pacing needed for such a high intensity season. That coupled with the fact that he seems like he wants to move on after the Olympics could be all the motivation that he needs. Personally I think that if Ilia Malin gets it together, he could be a wild card to make the team-- no matter who gets the Nebelhorn nod. Given that all three of Nathan, Jason, and Vincent may be looking to move on after Beijing, my guess is that a younger skater gaining valuable experience would be a good bet to send to the Games.
 
Spun Silver said:
Who are these Russians and what are they saying about Nathan?
streamable.com

Watch Nathan CHEN. World 2021, FS, 1 | Streamable

Watch "Nathan CHEN. World 2021, FS, 1" on Streamable.
streamable.com

Personally, I'm wondering when he can be anointed the new GOAT.
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The commentary is certainly anointing him.
Before the program, the conversation was about Russian 3 spots, they were thanking Russian Men's team.
I think Yagudin is one of the commentators.
"Words are not necessary", "everybody is on their feet", "impossible, fantastic", "5 quads", "there are two skaters in the world, Hanyu and Chen, but I should say, now it is Chen", "there is Nathan Chen and there is the rest", "he is not even out of breath after the skate", "he cannot be flustered", "he is like a soccer team composed of the best players in the world", "he gave others some chance in the short but immediately took it away"
... and I hate even writing this but "future Olympic champion"... (let's just collectively ignore that one)
and again- "I have no words, it is impossible to describe, 320 points"
 
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dinakt said:
The commentary is certainly anointing him.
Before the program, the conversation was about Russian 3 spots, they were thanking Russian Men's team.
I think Yagudin is one of the commentators.
"Words are not necessary", "everybody is on their feet", "impossible, fantastic", "5 quads", "there are two skaters in the world, Hanyu and Chen, but I should say, now it is Chen", "there is Nathan Chen and there is the rest", "he is not even out of breath after the skate", "he cannot be flustered", "he is like a soccer team composed of the best players in the world", "he gave others some chance in the short but immediately took it away"
... and I hate even writing this but "future Olympic champion"... (let's just collectively ignore that one)
and again- "I have no words, it is impossible to describe, 320 points"
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Thank you! I thought it might be Yagudin and I thought it sounded enthusiastic! Great line about the soccer team. As for "FOC" - I guess we'll all have to get used to hearing it since that's what we'll be doing for the next year - at least if the Olympics happen and there's no boycott. Nathan will need all his cool.
 
First of all, Nathan was mind-blowing. He landed one of his best 4lutzes after missing it in the short. That's gutsy. And everything was so confident and beautiful. Would love to see him hold the landings more, but what he did will do. :P

Not that it mattered or was that far off, but I totally would have Jason won PCS in the short.

I don't know how much Tom Z was involved with Vincent given the list of coaches that he accredited himself to, but in the event that USFS was not told of this beforehand, this would be Tom's second student that hid an injury (or its extent) from USFS causing a world spot to be lost. It probably still makes more sense to send him to Nebelhorn, but if he misses that too, he should be automatically out of contention for the Olympics. I can't imagine what would happen if he lost the 3rd spot at Nebelhorn but somehow outskated Jason at Nationals.
 
Marco said:
I don't know how much Tom Z was involved with Vincent given the list of coaches that he accredited himself to, but in the event that USFS was not told of this beforehand, this would be Tom's second student that hid an injury (or its extent) from USFS causing a world spot to be lost.
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It would also be the second time Zhou hid or downplayed an injury prior to Worlds and only revealed it after a disastrous performance there, too - on the previous occasion it was the FS that ended up being the problem and fortunately did not have ramifications for Worlds spots.
 
Carolla5501 said:
So stating a fact is dissing someone? . Because all he did was state a fact. Jason did not land a fully rotated quad once again. He did not go into a rant about how Jason will never land one he did not trash Jason.

I love Jason but I’m sorry that’s the fact. It’s not some trash this guy made up. He was reporting an event, that’s what happened at a sporting event, that’s what sports writers do they report what happened at sporting events. Unfortunately that’s not all rainbows and unicorns

Using your standard, he also dissed Chen because he pointed out that he fell. And he totally trashed Hanyu. LOL.
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Hersch pointlessly, took the opportunity to take a swipe at Jason. Had noting to do with his subject. Skating fans know the 4S was a step forward for Jason. I look forward to him incorporating quads into his miraculously artistic free skating. He more than anyone has kept beauty alive in the era of jump festivals.
 
Personally I am highly suspicious of injuries that show up only after you have a bad skate.


They make me wonder if you are really injured or you just wanted excuse for the fact that you fell down.

See Johnny in Dallas for an example
 
SkateFanBerlin said:
Hersch pointlessly, took the opportunity to take a swipe at Jason. Had noting to do with his subject. Skating fans know the 4S was a step forward for Jason. I look forward to him incorporating quads into his miraculously artistic free skating. He more than anyone has kept beauty alive in the era of jump festivals.
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After all facts are bad if you don’t like them.

I suggest that you quit reading him because apparently you can’t get over the fact that he might actually report facts . Where is your out rage over his dissing at the other skaters in an article. Its only dissing if he says something about Jason? Your fandom is showing. LOL

Actually, I’m pretty sure you should not read any sports writer anywhere in America. You seem to have a very delusional view of what their job is. LOL
 
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SkateFanBerlin said:
Hersch pointlessly, took the opportunity to take a swipe at Jason. Had noting to do with his subject. Skating fans know the 4S was a step forward for Jason. I look forward to him incorporating quads into his miraculously artistic free skating. He more than anyone has kept beauty alive in the era of jump festivals.
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I for one agree that Jason’s execution of the 4S was a big deal, aside from the UR it looked good.

Q- If Vincent had qualified for the LP, would the US have to go to Nebelhorn to secure the 3rd spot?
 
Carolla5501 said:
So stating a fact is dissing someone? . Because all he did was state a fact. Jason did not land a fully rotated quad once again. He did not go into a rant about how Jason will never land one he did not trash Jason.

I love Jason but I’m sorry that’s the fact. It’s not some trash this guy made up. He was reporting an event, that’s what happened at a sporting event, that’s what sports writers do they report what happened at sporting events. Unfortunately that’s not all rainbows and unicorns

Using your standard, he also dissed Chen because he pointed out that he fell. And he totally trashed Hanyu. LOL.
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Umm. You’re missing the point, dear. Context and rhetoric matter.

Since this is the US men’s thread and the title of the article is: “With comeback drama adding to the moment, Nathan Chen skates into a league of his own,” I’m going to ignore your comments about Hanyu except to say that just because Phil trashed him too, and at greater length, it’s not okay that he also dissed Jason.

With regard to the US men, Nathan’s fall is mentioned in passing, buried in the overall analysis and praise of his skate which forms the bulk of the article. Jason’s “[failure to] once again to land a fully rotated quad for the first time in his career” comes out of nowhere, without any counterbalancing discussion of what he did well. Frankly, Jason is used pretty much as a prop in this article - as the awed teammate who can’t even land one quad after years of trying - to emphasize Nathan’s brilliance and historic 5 quad achievement. Had this truly been a neutral, factual mention, the article could simply have stated that Jason placed 7th, or that he landed an under rotated 4S. Instead, the information was presented negatively as a repeated, continuing, career-long failure.

Incidentally, if the job of a sportswriter is to report what happens at sporting events, the failure to state that Vincent didn’t make the FS is a pretty conspicuous omission, don’t you think? But maybe he’s more deserving of rainbows and unicorns.
 
Tavi said:
Umm. You’re missing the point, dear. Context and rhetoric matter.

Since this is the US men’s thread and the title of the article is: “With comeback drama adding to the moment, Nathan Chen skates into a league of his own,” I’m going to ignore your comments about Hanyu except to say that just because Phil trashed him too, and at greater length, it’s not okay that he also dissed Jason.

With regard to the US men, Nathan’s fall is mentioned in passing, buried in the overall analysis and praise of his skate which forms the bulk of the article. Jason’s “[failure to] once again to land a fully rotated quad for the first time in his career” comes out of nowhere, without any counterbalancing discussion of what he did well. Frankly, Jason is used pretty much as a prop in this article - as the awed teammate who can’t even land one quad after years of trying - to emphasize Nathan’s brilliance and historic 5 quad achievement. Had this truly been a neutral, factual mention, the article could simply have stated that Jason placed 7th, or that he landed an under rotated 4S. Instead, the information was presented negatively as a repeated, continuing, career-long failure.

Incidentally, if the job of a sportswriter is to report what happens at sporting events, the failure to state that Vincent didn’t make the FS is a pretty conspicuous omission, don’t you think? But maybe he’s more deserving of rainbows and unicorns.
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Well I’m sure I’d he mentioned Vincent you would not have cared .

The only context you are able to understand is “he said something mean about Jason.”
Thanks so much for the entertainment but your fandom is getting old.
 
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