Decisions of the ISU Council: Stockholm Worlds (March 22-28) still on; Synchro Worlds cancelled; 2021 Grand Prix schedule/Beijing test event announced

[allezfred]

I think we should call it the Cantu rule. Or the MEX rule since two skaters from Mexico still don't have minimums and this will help them.

The Knierim/Frazier rule it is then.

Will be interesting to see who this actually benefits come 1 March. Hope to be proven wrong.

 

[clairecloutier]

I guess they wanted all those skaters from small feds who how now have the minimum to suffer so that USFS skaters got punished.

Because first things first

 

[Sylvia]

Oh, one other thing I noticed is there a limit to the # of entries each Fed can submit:

For Members entitled to 1 entry, only 1 Skater/Pair/Couple (including substitutes) may be entered. • For Members entitled to 2 or 3 entries, only 2 Skaters/Pairs/Couples (including substitutes) may be entered.

Edrian Paul CELESTINO (PHI), who is based in Montreal, is close with both of his scores: 32.96 / 63.05 S (PHI fed. would have to choose between Celestino and Caluza, who needs the FS TES).

3 LTU ladies are close (30 / 51):
Aleksandra GOLOVKINA 28.91 / 46.06 (she competed at 2020 Euros and is based in UK/has been able to train in Dundee)
Elzbieta KROPA 30.20 / 49.60
Greta MORKYTE 29.59 / 49.99

 

[Carolla5501]

Well, isn't it possible for a skater to adjust the date and time of a phone (as long as not set to 'automatic')?

Say a skater submits Feb 10, 4pm as the time on the documentation. I don't think it's that hard to tape the performance a day or two in advance but change the date of the phone forward to the designated date and time before showing it to the camera?! In theory this gives them unlimited chance to tape. In case ISU checks file creation dates, the skater can re-create the file (via some app?) at the right time to get rid of evidence that the video was pre-made, and then upload the new file to the specific link at the right time.

Not that I advocate for this of course.

How to get the ISU mad at you and not be allowed to compete at all 101. Seriously if someone got caught doing that I would assume the consequesnces would not be nice and could extend far beyound this event. (Get rid of the evidence would also have to include "kill any witnesses" for this to work and that's a bit extreme personally)

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

How to get the ISU mad at you and not be allowed to compete at all 101. Seriously if someone got caught doing that I would assume the consequesnces would not be nice and could extend far beyound this event. (Get rid of the evidence would also have to include "kill any witnesses" for this to work and that's a bit extreme personally)

That would make Jeff Gillooly and crew look like amateurs...oh wait...

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Oh please. You claimed everyone on the forum felt the exact same way and now you’re trying to claim that, because someone said, “no, we don’t, I don’t feel that way,” that means they secretly agree with you?


If you are important enough to believe it every time you see the word we you were included then I guess it applies to you. Personally that’s not the way I think but apparently you do

if someone says “we “ You are included. Do you really believe that? That’s just hysterical

I remember that one time in Paris I was set straight by the owner of a patisserie about putting the 'oui' into me.

 

[Karen-W]

Edrian Paul CELESTINO (PHI), who is based in Montreal, is close with both of his scores: 32.96 / 63.05 S (PHI fed. would have to choose between Celestino and Caluza, who needs the FS TES).

3 LTU ladies are close (30 / 51):
Aleksandra GOLOVKINA 28.91 / 46.06 (she competed at 2020 Euros and is based in UK/has been able to train in Dundee)
Elzbieta KROPA 30.20 / 49.60
Greta MORKYTE 29.59 / 49.99

Yes, the PHI fed would definitely have a dilemma because they can only submit one skater and hope he achieves the minimums. At least with the LTU fed, those ladies, theoretically, have a chance to compete at both Tallink Hotels Cup and/or Challenge Cup.

Since the decision on which skaters to submit has to be made before either of the two above competitions, my guess is that PHI and LTU would select Caluza and Kropa because each of them only needs to meet one of the mins.

 

[olympic]

Glad to see the ISU directive and I'm happy that Vincent made it.

I will be interested in the K/F 'test skate'.

 

[Karen-W]

Other federations with no entries for Worlds 2020 that might be looking to meet the minimums (not sure all of these skaters are still competing, but they were last season):

Men (10) - Jari Kessler CRO 33.83/56.07, Yong Myong RO PRK 31.35/48.84 (JGP 2019), Andras Csernoch HUN 31.61/57.68, Conor Stakelum IRL 32.04/51.68, Mikhail Shaidorov KAZ 33.79/60.74 (Jr Worlds 2020), Thomas Kennes NED 32.86/52.25, Michael Neumann SVK 34.70/55.82, Mathew Samuels RSA 24.91/57.14, Arnau Joly ESP 32.67/54.66, Micah Kai Lynette THA 34.54/61.64

Ladies (12) - Amy Lin TPE 27.78/48.15, Hana Cvijanovic CRO 29.10/42.37, Tal Mi Sin PRK 25.18/42.55 (JGP 2019), Alina Iushchenkova ISR 28.01/54.04 or Taylor Morris ISR 31.07/50.45, Aiza Mambekova KAZ 26.86/42.76 (we have been deprived of her headbands all season! ), Jocelyn Hong NZL 25.74/42.88 (JGP 2019), Marianne Stalen NOR 26.55/39.22, Antonina Dubinina SRB 29.32/45.23, Chloe Ing SGP 28.27/54.13, Valentina Matos ESP 29.86/51.06, Guzide Irmak Bayir TUR 29.20/49.52

Pairs and Dance - none additional

It looks like the UKR pairs team of Dzitsiuk/Pavlov, as well as EST dance teams of Bunina/Kuznetsov and Netjaga/Gaidajenko are now qualified based on junior scores from last season.

 

[Frau Muller]

Other federations with no entries for Worlds 2020 that might be looking to meet the minimums (not sure all of these skaters are still competing, but they were last season):

Men (10) - Jari Kessler CRO 33.83/56.07, Yong Myong RO PRK 31.35/48.84 (JGP 2019), Andras Csernoch HUN 31.61/57.68, Conor Stakelum IRL 32.04/51.68, Mikhail Shaidorov KAZ 33.79/60.74 (Jr Worlds 2020), Thomas Kennes NED 32.86/52.25, Michael Neumann SVK 34.70/55.82, Mathew Samuels RSA 24.91/57.14, Arnau Joly ESP 32.67/54.66, Micah Kai Lynette THA 34.54/61.64

Ladies (12) - Amy Lin TPE 27.78/48.15, Hana Cvijanovic CRO 29.10/42.37, Tal Mi Sin PRK 25.18/42.55 (JGP 2019), Alina Iushchenkova ISR 28.01/54.04 or Taylor Morris ISR 31.07/50.45, Aiza Mambekova KAZ 26.86/42.76 (we have been deprived of her headbands all season! ), Jocelyn Hong NZL 25.74/42.88 (JGP 2019), Marianne Stalen NOR 26.55/39.22, Antonina Dubinina SRB 29.32/45.23, Chloe Ing SGP 28.27/54.13, Valentina Matos ESP 29.86/51.06, Guzide Irmak Bayir TUR 29.20/49.52

Pairs and Dance - none additional

It looks like the UKR pairs team of Dzitsiuk/Pavlov, as well as EST dance teams of Bunina/Kuznetsov and Netjaga/Gaidajenko are now qualified based on junior scores from last season.

Re Kazakhstan ladies:
As much as I love Mambekova’s headbands, wouldn’t Tursy be a better bet to nab the lone spot for her country? This fall, she has posted about rejoining practice sessions at Sambo70... although few details of her progress and no word on the exact elements regained since her injury. I wouldn’t assume that she’s totally out of it.

 

[tony]

Re Kazakhstan ladies:
As much as I love Mambekova’s headbands, wouldn’t Tursy be a better bet to nab the lone spot for her country? This fall, she has posted about rejoining practice sessions at Sambo70... although few details of her progress and no word on the exact elements regained since her injury. I wouldn’t assume that she’s totally out of it.

Kazakhstan has 3 ladies entries. If Tursynbaeva isn't likely to finish top 10 (or 12, or show up at all), doesn't matter how many of them end up going, if they meet the minimums. Even if she is in the top 10, doesn't matter what any other entries do.

 

[Karen-W]

Re Kazakhstan ladies:
As much as I love Mambekova’s headbands, wouldn’t Tursy be a better bet to nab the lone spot for her country? This fall, she has posted about rejoining practice sessions at Sambo70... although few details of her progress and no word on the exact elements regained since her injury. I wouldn’t assume that she’s totally out of it.

In the other thread someone mentioned that it doesn't look like Tursy is in shape to compete, though I agree, she would be the much better option if she is intent on resuming training.

 

[Sylvia]

It looks like the UKR pairs team of Dzitsiuk/Pavlov

Ivan Pavlov has retired and is coaching now: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/oes-news-2020-2021-season.107303/page-4#post-5949435

 

[Frau Muller]

Kazakhstan has 3 ladies entries. If Tursynbaeva isn't likely to finish top 10 (or 12, or show up at all), doesn't matter how many of them end up going, if they meet the minimums. Even if she is in the top 10, doesn't matter what any other entries do.

Ah, based on Tursy’s silver medal in 2019. I was thinking that it was somehow forfeited due to Tursy’s injury during the length of the 19/20 season...of course, Kazak still qualifies for three ladies spots at the next Worlds. Amazing.

 

[mjb52]

Has Spain announced its team yet? I'm curious about how they'll select for dance if Hurtado/Khaliavin are ready to go, which they may not be, because of all their woes with her injury.

 

[Karen-W]

Has Spain announced its team yet? I'm curious about how they'll select for dance if Hurtado/Khaliavin are ready to go, which they may not be, because of all their woes with her injury.

No, but seeing that they gave the Worlds assignment to Smart/Diaz last year, combined with Hurtado's injury, I don't see any reason why H/K would get the nod over S/D unless S/D are injured sometime between now and Worlds.

 

[Braulio]

Has Spain announced its team yet? I'm curious about how they'll select for dance if Hurtado/Khaliavin are ready to go, which they may not be, because of all their woes with her injury.

They intended to held the National Championships this month, though I think that even if the championship is cancelled, they will go with Arnau Joly & Valentina Matos (top skaters individually right now) but they don't have the TES minimums nor any pair Broda/Betegon or Barquero/Zandron who I don't think are ready yet to be at competition level.

Smart & Diaz will skate at Worlds no matter what since Spain only has 1 spot at ice dance. Even if Hurtado/Khaliavin have got that spot with her currently recovering and slowly returning to training that would be a no show at worlds.

With Papadakis/Cizeron not going and Sinitsina/Katsalapov uncertain condition, somehow I think Spain can grab a top 10 at Worlds in Ice Dance and get those two quotas for next season, both couples deserve to skate at the Olympics and make a farewell for their careers at the top

 

[aka_gerbil]

When everyone is healthy, I think h/k is the stronger team. With Sara’s shoulder injury, surgery, and recovery, I think S/D are the no-brainer choice for this year though.

 

[Karen-W]

They intended to held the National Championships this month, though I think that even if the championship is cancelled, they will go with Arnau Joly & Valentina Matos (top skaters individually right now) but they don't have the TES minimums nor any pair Broda/Betegon or Barquero/Zandron who I don't think are ready yet to be at competition level.

Smart & Diaz will skate at Worlds no matter what since Spain only has 1 spot at ice dance. Even if Hurtado/Khaliavin have got that spot with her currently recovering and slowly returning to training that would be a no show at worlds.

With Papadakis/Cizeron not going and Sinitsina/Katsalapov uncertain condition, somehow I think Spain can grab a top 10 at Worlds in Ice Dance and get those two quotas for next season, both couples deserve to skate at the Olympics and make a farewell for their careers at the top

Matos is really close since the ISU added in the 2018-19 season - she needs the SP (just .14 away!) but already has the FS minimum. Joly is a good 9 points off the min in the FS but fairly close with the SP. Hopefully they'll be able to get the mins either through the video review or at Challenge Cup.

My guess is that Broda/Betegon will be at Challenge Cup since they've competed this season, IIRC.

 

[kittyjake5]

Entrants for the Challenge Cup.

https://www.schaatsen.nl/media/47417/cc2021-entries-by-name-20210204.pdf

 

[allezfred]

I think we should call it the Cantu rule. Or the MEX rule since two skaters from Mexico still don't have minimums and this will help them.

Can’t call it the Cantu rule as we have a Cantu at Challenge Cup.

 

[sk8nlizard]

Entrants for the Challenge Cup.

https://www.schaatsen.nl/media/47417/cc2021-entries-by-name-20210204.pdf

So, are those final entries? Let’s say someone were to not qualify from video. Would the Skater/team theoretically be able to get added to the event? I’m not sure how Senior Bs work.

 

[Karen-W]

Entrants for the Challenge Cup.

https://www.schaatsen.nl/media/47417/cc2021-entries-by-name-20210204.pdf

Ladies - Zingas CYP, Grm SLO

Men - Carrillo MEX

Pairs - Choinard/Mayr AUT, Broda/Betegon Martin ESP, Crafoord/Crafoord SWE, Herbrikova/Roulet SUI

Dance - Kuznetsova/Kolosovskyi AZE, Khomyakova/Shapiro ISR, Moscheni/Fioretti ITA, Zhata/Akalin TUR

Andrea MONTESINOS CANTU (MEX)

Elzbieta KROPA LTU
Greta MORKYTE LTU

Men - Jari Kessler CRO, Andras Csernoch HUN, Arnau Joly ESP

Ladies - Emmy Ma TPE, Alina Iushchenkova ISR, Taylor Morris ISR, Antonina Dubinina SRB, Guzide Irmak Bayir TUR

Tallink Hotels Cup entries are here: http://35.204.103.250/results/2020/THC2021/International/

So, we know the skaters/teams above are definitely trying for the minimums based on entries for Egna, LuMi, Tallink Hotels Cup, and Challenge Cup.

 

[Karen-W]

So, are those final entries? Let’s say someone were to not qualify from video. Would the Skater/team theoretically be able to get added to the event? I’m not sure how Senior Bs work.

Yes, there are enough countries entered that this will count as a qualifying event, same with Tallink for the singles skaters.

I'm operating under the assumption that all of the skaters competing in the next few weeks are also going to submit videos in order to maximize their chances at earning a spot - it will be interesting to see who LTU and ISR choose from their ladies since they are all really close or have at least 1 minimum already.

 

[Frau Muller]

Entrants for the Challenge Cup.

https://www.schaatsen.nl/media/47417/cc2021-entries-by-name-20210204.pdf

So all of these folks will travel to The Hague (&/or Tallin, in the case of the other)? From Mexico & elsewhere? Impressive! It’s beginning to feel like the world is returning to normal.

 

[sk8nlizard]

Yes, there are enough countries entered that this will count as a qualifying event, same with Tallink for the singles skaters.

I'm operating under the assumption that all of the skaters competing in the next few weeks are also going to submit videos in order to maximize their chances at earning a spot - it will be interesting to see who LTU and ISR choose from their ladies since they are all really close or have at least 1 minimum already.

Thanks for the clarification. However, what if someone wasn’t on that list and then didn’t get minimums from the video for some reason? Are they able to be added last minute?

 

[allezfred]

So, are those final entries? Let’s say someone were to not qualify from video. Would the Skater/team theoretically be able to get added to the event? I’m not sure how Senior Bs work.

In a normal season, internationals usually have an entry deadline, but organisers are usually flexible if there's room or if you are high profile enough.

From the announcement, it seems that the Challenge Cup organisers are being super-flexible. However, it does say they are limiting the singles events to 24 skaters each. There are currently 30 ladies entered.....

Yes, there are enough countries entered that this will count as a qualifying event, same with Tallink for the singles skaters.

The event is sanctioned as an international event by the ISU. It therefore counts for technical minimums regardless of the number of countries entered.

I think you are confusing it with World Standings/Rankings. (See page 4)

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/1625-1629-world-standing-sandp-id/file

 

[sk8nlizard]

In a normal season, internationals usually have an entry deadline, but organisers are usually flexible if there's room or if you are high profile enough.

From the announcement, it seems that the Challenge Cup organisers are being super-flexible. However, it does say they are limiting the singles events to 24 skaters each. There are currently 30 ladies entered.....

The event is sanctioned as an international event by the ISU. It therefore counts for technical minimums regardless of the number of countries entered.

I think you are confusing it with World Standings/Rankings. (See page 4)

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/1625-1629-world-standing-sandp-id/file

Thanks so much for this! Maybe Challenge Cup is assuming some people will get their scores on video, or be in quarantine or something brining the numbers closer to 24?? I was mainly thinking about K/F because I am familiar with them (though there could be others I’m sure) that are planning to do video but are not signed up for Challenge Cup. I assume the tech score should be fairly attainable for K/F which is why they don’t have a back up?

 

[allezfred]

Maybe Challenge Cup is assuming some people will get their scores on video, or be in quarantine or something brining the numbers closer to 24??

Yes, there probably will be a heap of withdrawals closer to the date.

I assume the tech score should be fairly attainable for K/F which is why they don’t have a back up?

Knierim/Frazier should be able to get the tech score in their sleep.

 

[Marco]

Entrants for the Challenge Cup.

https://www.schaatsen.nl/media/47417/cc2021-entries-by-name-20210204.pdf

Emmy Ma! YES

Hopefully she can attain TES min via video submission so that she doesn't have to travel all the way to the Hague. Last she skated around 2018 - 19 she didn't have a 3/3 and had rotation issues on her jumps, so she could be on the bubble on TES.