Decisions of the ISU Council: Stockholm Worlds (March 22-28) still on; Synchro Worlds cancelled; 2021 Grand Prix schedule/Beijing test event announced

[Seerek]

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, doesn't matter open/closed events their logistic is the same, gathering hundreds of athletes, coaches, from all over the world

That's the thing - we need to have some perspective here : all other senior winter sport World Championships looks like they will take place (Luge World's is this weekend in Koenigssee, Germany).

We'll see if Canada follows through with hosting men's curling and women's hockey world's in April. Canada already rejected Freestyle and Snowboard World's that were supposed to be in Calgary (now moved to Almaty, KAZ).

 

[Lara]

That's the thing - we need to have some perspective here : all other senior winter sport World Championships looks like they will take place (Luge World's is this weekend in Koenigssee, Germany).

We'll see if Canada follows through with hosting men's curling and women's hockey world's in April. Canada already rejected Freestyle and Snowboard World's that were supposed to be in Calgary (now moved to Almaty, KAZ).

And Koenigssee is actually a replacement location for Whistler BC, where luge Worlds were originally scheduled. For sliding sports home track advantage is especially significant, so it’s a pretty big deal to have all season events moved to European (predominantly German) locations.

I think the US Open tennis is the only major international event to be held in North America since the pandemic? ETA - and Junior Hockey Worlds iirc.

 

[miffy]

Other than Zhou and Knierim/Frazier who else needs the minimum score? Maybe they could just say any former Junior or Senior Championship medallist can get through...

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I understand the ISU is looking at having skaters who don't have the minimum scores for Worlds to be able to submit a video and have that video scored. I imagine this might be done similar to how the US competitive series happened, or the event they recently had in Canada (which I forget the name of, sorry).

ETA: I see that Tony has mentioned the video option as well in the other thread on this same subject.

 

[Sylvia]

Other than Zhou and Knierim/Frazier who else needs the minimum score?

There's an ongoing discussion here re. Daleman (who lacks the FS minimum and Skate Canada's selection criteria for Worlds seems to indicate that the skaters being considered need have both minimums): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...women-news-updates.107272/page-5#post-5947267

BTW, the ISU is testing out the virtual competition format: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...askerade-2020-2021.107408/page-6#post-5947867

 

[Braulio]

Other than Zhou and Knierim/Frazier who else needs the minimum score? Maybe they could just say any former Junior or Senior Championship medallist can get through...

Donovan Carrillo

 

[allezfred]

I don't think there should be any exceptions for minimum TES if Worlds goes ahead. Especially for countries with a large pool of skaters who do hold the minimum.

 

[Sylvia]

ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Calendar season 2021/22
The Council approved the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Calendar for the season 2021/22 as follows:

• ...
• [#4] NHK Trophy November: 12-14, 2021 TBA, JPN
• Internationaux de France: November 19-21, 2021 Grenoble, FRA
• Rostelecom Cup: November 26-28, 2021 Moscow, RUS
• ISU Grand Prix Final: December 9-12, 2021 Osaka, JPN

来季GPファイナルは東和薬品ラクタブドーム、NHK杯は代々木競技場に決定 - スポニチ Sponichi Annex スポーツ

日本スケート連盟は29日、公式ツイッターを更新し、来季2021―22年シーズンのフィギュア・グランプリ（GP）ファイナル（12月9～12日）が行われる大阪の…

www.sponichi.co.jp

The Japan Skating Federation updated its official Twitter account on the 29th, and announced that the venue for the Figure Grand Prix (GP) Final (December 9-12) for the 2021-22 season will be Towa Pharmaceutical RACTAB Dome [Osaka]. He also revealed that the GP Series NHK Trophy to be held in Round 4 is at the Yoyogi National Gymnasium in Tokyo.

 

[misskarne]

I don't think there should be any exceptions for minimum TES if Worlds goes ahead. Especially for countries with a large pool of skaters who do hold the minimum.

Yep.

I doubt we'd be seeing this much hand-wringing over opportunities to get the TES minimums if it wasn't Zhou and K/F who were missing them.

 

[tony]

Yep.

I doubt we'd be seeing this much hand-wringing over opportunities to get the TES minimums if it wasn't Zhou and K/F who were missing them.

I see about the same amount of hand-wringing as the people who were bitching endlessly about Australia getting no chance on the GP before they ended up with 2 initial spots anyways

 

[A.H.Black]

The Challenge Cup senior international competition in The Hague NED, Feb. 25-28, 2021, has a C0vid-19 Measures document (27 pages) that makes for interesting reading - it's linked from the ISU's event page: https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...detail/12878/-/challenge-cup?templateParam=11

This is catty but I noticed a bunch of typos that need fixing. My favorite line in the whole thing -

Screaming and shouting by coaches is NOT allowed

I was also struck by the protocols for the Victory Ceremonies.

 

[overedge]

This is catty but I noticed a bunch of typos that need fixing. My favorite line in the whole thing -

Screaming and shouting by coaches is NOT allowed

This should be a rule all the time!

I was also struck by the protocols for the Victory Ceremonies.

The self-serve Victory Ceremonies.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't think there should be any exceptions for minimum TES if Worlds goes ahead. Especially for countries with a large pool of skaters who do hold the minimum.

Yep.

I doubt we'd be seeing this much hand-wringing over opportunities to get the TES minimums if it wasn't Zhou and K/F who were missing them.

Well, of the skaters from various countries who have been named to their country's Worlds teams, those are the only two who are missing them, however Daleman is in the mix for one of the Canadian ladies' spots and she is also lacking the minimums. If she were already outright named to the team, I suspect that there would be plenty of Canadians also piping up in support of some sort of video technical review to approve these skaters to compete at Worlds.

Here's the thing about the TES minimums, in my view... Sure, some countries have more depth than others and there are several skaters who could fill the spots who already have the minimums but the minimums don't mean much in the big picture apart from not having to sit through qualifying rounds. Just because a skater has the minimums doesn't guarantee we won't be treated to an Aymoz or Krasnozhon-like meltdown in the SP.

I said this in the other thread and I'll repeat it here - since the ISU has decided that this is still the main Olympic qualifier, countries should be allowed to send their very best skaters/teams in order to maximize their chances at earning the most Olympic entires possible. There isn't any reason to believe that K/F, Zhou or Daleman wouldn't have earned the minimums (well, maybe Daleman since I think she's a shaky competitor like Gracie Gold) had there been any normal FS competitions in North America this fall or winter. The same is true of the rest of the NA-based skaters who are from countries with less depth than the US or Canada. It's nice that there have been opportunities for the Euro-based skaters to achieve their minimums and that there is at least one more coming up in February, but there needs to be some sort of accommodation for the skaters/teams who haven't had the same opportunities because their continent has three countries versus the 44 in Europe.

 

[Sylvia]

...however Daleman is in the mix for one of the Canadian ladies' spots and she is also lacking the minimums.

Daleman has the Worlds SP minimum but not the FS minimum.

Cross-posting here from the other thread...

Ladies' TES minimums for 2021 Worlds are 30 (SP) and 51 (FS). In scanning the current Senior Ladies minimums list, I noticed Kailani Craine (AUS), Isadora Williams (BRA), Eliska Brezinova (CZE), Ivett Toth (HUN), and Angelina Kuchvalska (LAT) all now lack the SP minimum TES and Alisson Krystle Perticheto (PHI), Anita Ostlund and Matilda Algotsson (who replaced her for SWE) the FS minimum TES that they had last season to be eligible for 2020 Worlds.

Julia Lang is the only HUN lady with both Worlds minimums this season.

Men's TES minimums for 2021 Worlds are 34 (SP) and 64 (FS) - after checking the 2020 Worlds entries, Peter James Hallam (GBR) and Vincent Zhou (USA) are the 2 who now lack a minimum score (FS) for Worlds.

 

[Karen-W]

Daleman has the Worlds SP minimum but not the FS minimum.

Cross-posting here from the other thread...

Ladies' TES minimums for 2021 Worlds are 30 (SP) and 51 (FS). In scanning the current Senior Ladies minimums list, I noticed Kailani Craine (AUS), Isadora Williams (BRA), Eliska Brezinova (CZE), Ivett Toth (HUN), and Angelina Kuchvalska (LAT) all now lack the SP minimum TES and Alisson Krystle Perticheto (PHI), Anita Ostlund and Matilda Algotsson (who replaced her for SWE) the FS minimum TES that they had last season to be eligible for 2020 Worlds.

Julia Lang is the only HUN lady with both Worlds minimums this season.

Men's TES minimums for 2021 Worlds are 34 (SP) and 64 (FS) - after checking the 2020 Worlds entries, Peter James Hallam (GBR) and Vincent Zhou (USA) are the 2 who now lack a minimum score (FS) for Worlds.

It doesn't look like any of the pairs teams who were scheduled to compete at 2020 Worlds are now missing their minimums. Notable pairs and dance teams that might be trying to earn their minimums for 2021 still...

Need SP - Gamez/Paradis PHI
Need FS - Herbrikova/Roulet SUI
Need both - Broda/Betegon Martin ESP and Crafoord/Crafoord SWE

Need FD - Zhata/Akalin TUR

Are there any other new pairs teams that haven't been able to compete internationally a la K/F? I know we have Muramoto/Takahashi in dance but they're not likely to be sent by Japan to Worlds unless K/K get injured, and even then, Japan could send the nearly even Fukase/Cho.

 

[Sylvia]

The new Turkish ice dance team of Yuliia ZHATA & Berk AKALIN exceeded the Worlds RD minimum score at 2020 Winter Star/Minsk in December 2020 but fell short in the FD by less than 2 points -- they're scheduled to compete at Egna Dance Trophy in Italy next week (eta) along with the new Italian team of Carolina Moscheni & Francesco Fioretti.

There's also the LuMi Dance Trophy, Feb 10-13, 2021 in Odessa, UKR (both competition threads are in the Kiss & Cry section).

ETA:

Need SP - Gamez/Paradis PHI

She announced their split in August 2020.

The new Austrian pair of Chloe Choinard & Livio Mayr, based in Oakville, Ontario, have not had the chance to compete yet.
Ditto for the new Spanish pair of Laura Barquero & Marco Zandron (released by Italy) who may not be ready to compete yet.

Nicole Rajicova (SVK) returned to competition this past December and I assume will be looking for her minimum scores for the Olympic season.

Slovenia's Dasa Grm is still barely short (50.77) of the Worlds FS minimum of 51.

USA-based Emilea Zingas started competing for Cyprus this season and has the FS minimum score for Worlds but not SP yet.

 

[Karen-W]

She announced their split in August 2020.

The new Austrian pair of Chloe Choinard & Livio Mayr, based in Oakville, Ontario, have not had the chance to compete yet.
Ditto for the new Spanish pair of Laura Barquero & Marco Zandron (released by Italy) who may not be ready to compete yet.

Nicole Rajicova (SVK) returned to competition this past December and I assume will be looking for her minimum scores for the Olympic season.

Slovenia's Dasa Grm is still barely short (50.77) of the Worlds FS minimum of 51.

USA-based Emilea Zingas started competing for Cyprus this season and has the FS minimum score for Worlds but not SP yet.

Thanks - I thought that I had seen the Gamez/Paradis split last summer but couldn't recall.

So, we have at least 2 NA-based pairs teams who are likely looking for minimums.

And there you go throwing Dasa Grm into the mix - that will get certain FSUers on board with a video tech review for minimums, lol.

 

[Sylvia]

And there you go throwing Dasa Grm into the mix - that will get certain FSUers on board with a video tech review for minimums, lol.

I've been rooting extra hard for her since 2019 Worlds and wish the ISU would just round up her FS minimum score. I assume she may have to spend the time and money to compete at Challenge Cup in The Hague in February.

Two pairs who are eligible to debut at 2021 Worlds are Elizaveta ZHUK / Martin BIDAR (CZE) who got their minimums at 2020 Nebelhorn Trophy and Bogdana LUKASHEVICH / Alexander STEPANOV (switched to BLR from RUS) who got theirs at 2020 Minsk Winter Star.

ETA (bringing over from the other thread):

There are new senior eligible skaters who do not have senior TES yet, such as Haein LEE of Korea.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The ISU Council apparently didn't think it was safe enough to hold their own meeting in person, but decided it's safe to run an in-person event with way more people involved, and in closer contact.

I know. The irony, right.

 

[jiejie]

I don't think the ISU needs to change the TES minimums for 2021 Worlds, but they should loosen up on the timing and method of how they were achieved, due to the extraordinary circumstances of the last year. Specifically:
1) Expand the look-back period for achieving TES minimums to at least the last 3 seasons, maybe 4. So at a minimum, SP and FS scores from the 2018-2019, 2019-2020, and the essentially nonexistent 2020-2021 seasons could all be counted as valid. Possibly even include the 2017-2018 season as well. Existing rules that SP and FS minimums don't have to be from the same competition remain.
2) Allow the (senior) TES minimums achieved at an ISU junior competition during the expanded look-back period, to also count as valid.
3) For new teams in pairs and dance, allow the TES minimums attained by either partner in a prior partnership to count, subject to video review of the newly-formed team by an ISU panel.

 

[Debbie S]

Agree that the 2018-19 season should count for TES mins and include Junior int'ls. And I like the video idea for new teams or anyone else a Fed wants to send.

 

[tony]

I don't think the ISU needs to change the TES minimums for 2021 Worlds, but they should loosen up on the timing and method of how they were achieved, due to the extraordinary circumstances of the last year. Specifically:
1) Expand the look-back period for achieving TES minimums to at least the last 3 seasons, maybe 4. So at a minimum, SP and FS scores from the 2018-2019, 2019-2020, and the essentially nonexistent 2020-2021 seasons could all be counted as valid. Possibly even include the 2017-2018 season as well. Existing rules that SP and FS minimums don't have to be from the same competition remain.
2) Allow the (senior) TES minimums achieved at an ISU junior competition during the expanded look-back period, to also count as valid.
3) For new teams in pairs and dance, allow the TES minimums attained by either partner in a prior partnership to count, subject to video review of the newly-formed team by an ISU panel.

I asked about pulling scores from 2018/2019, but it didn't seem like that was being considered at all (or yet). Pulling from 2018 won't work, as it was a different scoring scale and way too long ago if we are talking about skaters that still don't have minimums and their country doesn't have any other representatives, IMO at least. Pulling everything from the start of the 2019 season to the few competitions that have counted early this season are a full two calendar years of actual scheduled competition more or less, which is what is typically considered.

Junior competitors have different sets of elements both in total number and in there being a required type of jump in the singles events each year, so it's also not 100% comparable and may still put some skaters below where they need to be.

There aren't a tremendous amount of situations where skaters are either A) really close to the minimum or B) a new team or C) part of a World team or likely to have gone to 2020 Worlds who are now in a predicament. I completely expect huge fields at Challenge Cup for countries still fighting to send skaters (lots of Europeans that will probably have their chance), while the ISU considers Skate America and other non-records competitions as a basis for allowing Zhou and K/F (and whoever else internationally) a video submission. If Korea sends a team and it isn't some combination of two of You/Kim/Kim (such as the junior skater mentioned), then I guess I'd throw that skater into consideration as well.

But, the strict side of me would say that the video submission needs to be one try, at a set time. Not, 'we will get it to you by the deadline' while skaters have endless tries to hit the minimums.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Perhaps Vicks and Pfizer could come on board as official sponsors of the World Championships. #JustSayin'

 

[Karen-W]

Hard look at the #s of skaters who need at least one or both minimums:

Ladies (13) - Craine AUS, Williams BRA, Daleman CAN*, Zingas CYP, Brezinova CZE, Toth HUN*, Lee KOR*, Kuchvalska LAT, Perticheto PHI, Rajicova SVK, Grm SLO, Ostlund SWE, and Algotsson SWE

Men (6) - Hallam GBR, Carrillo MEX, Brain MON, Oddvoll Boe NOR, Caluza PHI, and Zhou USA*

Pairs (6) - Choinard/Mayr AUT, Barquero/Zandron ESP, Broda/Betegon Martin ESP, Crafoord/Crafoord SWE, Herbrikova/Roulet SUI, and Knierem/Frazer USA*

Dance (6) - Kuznetsova/Kolosovskyi AZE, Khomyakova/Shapiro ISR*, Moscheni/Fioretti ITA*, Muramoto/Takahashi JPN*, Zhata/Akalin TUR, and Golubtsova/Belobrov UKR*

The skaters/teams with an * are from countries with other eligible skaters to fill all of the spots allocated. Dare I add in Savchenko/Massot GER based on their IG? ;-)

I don't think this should be especially hard to organize for the ISU, to help these skaters achieve their minimums if they are unable to compete at Challenge Cup, Egna, LuMi, or the Tallink Hotels Cup (singles only still scheduled for Estonia in 3 weeks) taking place in Europe. And is the Ice Mall Cup in Israel still happening?

ETA - the 3 men @Sylvia listed below.

 

[jiejie]

I asked about pulling scores from 2018/2019, but it didn't seem like that was being considered at all (or yet). Pulling from 2018 won't work, as it was a different scoring scale and way too long ago if we are talking about skaters that still don't have minimums and their country doesn't have any other representatives, IMO at least. Pulling everything from the start of the 2019 season to the few competitions that have counted early this season are a full two calendar years of actual scheduled competition more or less, which is what is typically considered.

Junior competitors have different sets of elements both in total number and in there being a required type of jump in the singles events each year, so it's also not 100% comparable and may still put some skaters below where they need to be.

There aren't a tremendous amount of situations where skaters are either A) really close to the minimum or B) a new team or C) part of a World team or likely to have gone to 2020 Worlds who are now in a predicament. I completely expect huge fields at Challenge Cup for countries still fighting to send skaters (lots of Europeans that will probably have their chance), while the ISU considers Skate America and other non-records competitions as a basis for allowing Zhou and K/F (and whoever else internationally) a video submission. If Korea sends a team and it isn't some combination of two of You/Kim/Kim (such as the junior skater mentioned), then I guess I'd throw that skater into consideration as well.

But, the strict side of me would say that the video submission needs to be one try, at a set time. Not, 'we will get it to you by the deadline' while skaters have endless tries to hit the minimums.

I get what you're saying and don't disagree with your facts and observations, but I posit this: Does any of what you bring up really matter, in the larger scheme of things, given the current situation? All the ISU needs to come up with is a reasonably fair "gating system" for potential 2021 Worlds entries. Something relatively simple and understandable -even if not perfect--that minimizes the additional ISU workload for parsing eligibility.

And if it turns out that using something like my suggestions means that a few extra entries beyond ISU preferences happens at this one Worlds, what's the big deal?

 

[Sylvia]

Sondre ODDVOLL BOE (NOR), Davide LEWTON BRAIN (MON) and Christopher CALUZA (PHI) have the Worlds SP minimum and need the FS minimum (Caluza is pretty close at 62.72). ETA: Donovan Carillo (MEX) is closest at 63.80 - just round up, ISU!

Trivia note: Caluza is currently based and skating in Anchorage, Alaska (3Lz clip: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKfQ039JyR4/) with Keegan Messing (backflip on outdoor ice: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKiMhxRpGbO/).

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Yep.

I doubt we'd be seeing this much hand-wringing over opportunities to get the TES minimums if it wasn't Zhou and K/F who were missing them.

Except that Sylvia is summarizing a large pool of non-American skaters who need them.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I miss the days when all it took was to be chosen by your respective country to represent them at a world championships.

Sure, there may have been 50+ skaters in the ladies' and men's divisions.

But it made for a true global competition.

 

[AxelAnnie]

..I just don't see the point. The entire competition will have a huge footnote. Using it as an Olympic qualifier will never hold water. If people who think choosing Ashley over Marai was a csscandle...just wait......

People can't practice...cant find ice....how do factor that in to an equitable outcome? , I can just see it now. So-and-so fell twice but were not gonna count that because she had limited time on the ice. And little buddy who actually got the most points at world isn't going to go to the Olympics because well just because. Seems to me no matter what you do to try to level it out it's going to be a cluster

Other than Zhou and Knierim/Frazier who else needs the minimum score? Maybe they could just say any former Junior or Senior Championship medallist can get through...

Of anybody nor on a Wednesdag

 

[tony]

I get what you're saying and don't disagree with your facts and observations, but I posit this: Does any of what you bring up really matter, in the larger scheme of things, given the current situation? All the ISU needs to come up with is a reasonably fair "gating system" for potential 2021 Worlds entries. Something relatively simple and understandable -even if not perfect--that minimizes the additional ISU workload for parsing eligibility.

And if it turns out that using something like my suggestions means that a few extra entries beyond ISU preferences happens at this one Worlds, what's the big deal?

Based on what I wrote initially regarding some of the BTS talks (again, to be taken as evolving and not final decision), hearing that the ISU seems to be looking more into video submissions than adjusting the TES suggests to me they want to keep the fields at 40 or less, at least as far as the singles skaters go.

We had discussions on other parts of the board highlighting the 2007-2010 days when the men/ladies were approaching or over 50 entries, and it was nearly 10 straight hours of competition for an SP. And I know, there are lower-level competitions and recent virtual competitions with a crazy amount of athletes as well, but it's a huge ask for a judging panel and technical panel to stay in place through 4+ resurfacing and 10 hours. If you open the 'flood gates' to the TES for the Europeans/4CC level, you've already potentially added many more athletes, and I have no doubt that the European countries with skaters who have competed 2-3 times this year would love to send someone to Worlds in a pre-Olympic season.

I miss the days when all it took was to be chosen by your respective country to represent them at a world championships.

Sure, there may have been 50+ skaters in the ladies' and men's divisions.

But it made for a true global competition.

Yeah, but skating is not the only sport that has imposed some kind of level of mastery in order to get into Worlds, and I personally don't mind that. Skaters get media exposure all the way down to Junior Grand Prix events now, and they don't need a Worlds to be finally 'seen' like used to be the case. And even then, some skaters were getting sent to Worlds with absolutely zero chance of getting out of the rarely-aired QR. And I commented above about the judging and tech panels -- regardless of how much you've volunteered for the sport and love it, it really did have to be taxing for those judges in the late 2000s with all of those skaters.