From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

[Tinami Amori]

Thanks. I've only been wondering why Russia has their nationals over Christmas the last 3 years smh.

USA holds its Nationals right when the Europeans take place (most of the years)......

I've been wondering for a couple of months what might've happened to him since he hasn't been featured in Alex' Plushenko's Instagram content for quite some time.

Joining Eteri's team now just adds more fuel to the "war" between Plush and Team Tutberidze.
May someone hand me the popcorn, please?

If media does not make an issue of it, then there will be no issue. Media recently did not make an issue of one of Mishin's skaters taken by Plushenko, so there was "no issue"....

 

[muffinplus]

Alina picked her own outfits for Ice Age apparently

Загитова выбирает одежду САМА / Навка на Евровидении / Стилист Ледникового периода / Фигурка Lite

Новым гостем программы «Фигурка» стал Александр Шевчук – всемирный эксперт моды, имиджмейкер и главный стилист шоу «Ледниковый период», который работал в про...

www.youtube.com

OK, I guess that's not the most accurate way of putting it . "She is actively involved and has the final say. on what she is going to wear"... I don't know if that person (stylist) is just trying to shift responsibility for those poor outfits to her.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Some weeks ago Segei Dobrin said in his interview Amir works in Svetlana Panova's group. Where does that group work?
Dobrin: https://matchtv.ru/figure-skating/m..._Sergej_Dobrin__o_skandalnyh_perehodah_sezona

Maybe Amir moved to Eteri or it was just a picture with Alina...What Tinami showed was just writing by a blogger who wanted to make sensation from a photo. So the moving is not sure yet, but we are going to know soon.

Then you probably don't know that Vistoskaya (who works with the younger group at Khrystalniy) went on maternity leave, so they had to take a new coach... Amir... .

 

[hanca]

Загитова выбирает одежду САМА / Навка на Евровидении / Стилист Ледникового периода / Фигурка Lite

Новым гостем программы «Фигурка» стал Александр Шевчук – всемирный эксперт моды, имиджмейкер и главный стилист шоу «Ледниковый период», который работал в про...

www.youtube.com

OK, I guess that's not the most accurate way of putting it . "She is actively involved and has the final say. on what she is going to wear"... I don't know if that person (stylist) is just trying to shift responsibility for those poor outfits to her.

That doesn’t say much if someone says ‘she is actively involved and has the final say’. It depends what is the size of the sample she is choosing from. Does she really find her dress, comes and says ‘I want to wear this?’ Or is she offered a few dresses and told to chose one? If I was the stylist and offered her, let’s say, three pretty bad dresses; she chooses one, looks awful, I would be able to say ‘not my fault, she chose it’ and yet in reality she would look as bad in any of those dresses.

 

[Alilou]

Let me break this down for a moment in case anyone else reading this thread feels like their brain is going to explode.

hanca seems to be making two arguments:

A. In order to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast, one must undergo a stretching routine that is necessarily painful.

B. There is a difference between stretches one must do to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast and the stretches an adult who wants to be healthy might do.

B is supported by an analogy that there's a difference between someone who goes ice skating for fun and one who wants to train to be a competitive figure skater.

Now, where it gets confusing to me is that hanca is repeatedly implying that someone is trying to dispute these claims.

For A, the opposing argument would be that it is possible to do the stretches necessary to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast without experiencing pain.

Since I know virtually nothing about stretching and even less about competitive rhythmic gymnastics, I am not in a position to make that argument. However, I am quite confident that no one has made that argument in this thread, and I would wager that no one has ever seriously made that argument on FSU.

For B, the opposing argument would be that there is no difference between the stretching one needs to do to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast and the stretching an adult interested in keeping healthy but not competing in any type of athletic contest needs to do. And, for the analogy to B, that there is no difference between skating for fun and training to be a competitive figure skater.

Either of those two opposing arguments would be ridiculous, and certainly have never been made in this thread.

Finally, I don't want to suggest this is the only place where someone is inventing arguments that don't exist in order to disprove them. That seems to happen quite frequently, but I suppose our current times and continuing news and experiences may be at least partially to blame.

I would like to add, on a semi-topical note, that I am interested to see the junior ice dance team who represent Cyprus (but are originally from Russia) progress and glad they did well in at Ice Star.

OMG I feel stupid and validated at the same time

 

[Tinami Amori]

Загитова выбирает одежду САМА / Навка на Евровидении / Стилист Ледникового периода / Фигурка Lite

Новым гостем программы «Фигурка» стал Александр Шевчук – всемирный эксперт моды, имиджмейкер и главный стилист шоу «Ледниковый период», который работал в про...

www.youtube.com

OK, I guess that's not the most accurate way of putting it . "She is actively involved and has the final say. on what she is going to wear"... I don't know if that person (stylist) is just trying to shift responsibility for those poor outfits to her.

I listened to that interview, and yes, the designer said "she has the final say". But prior to that he said few other things (in a nut shell):

• Because of ******* many boutiques and fashion outlets are closed, and we get very limited selection and options what to chose from and work with. So maybe Alina is just approving "the best out of the worst".
• My goal is not to high-light an individual, but to create a scene in terms of colors and shapes. I have to design "the whole picture". So he is really not thinking if a "color spot and shape" is making person-X (Alina) look 5 pounds heavier...
• He has a whole team of stylists working on Ice Age contestants and skaters, Alina may not get his personal attention.

There were a lot of complaints from fans and audience, so perhaps there will be some changes. Although i don't know what to think of this, it is better as far as form fitting.....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CG1phG3nR4m/

 

[muffinplus]

That doesn’t say much if someone says ‘she is actively involved and has the final say’. It depends what is the size of the sample she is choosing from. Does she really find her dress, comes and says ‘I want to wear this?’ Or is she offered a few dresses and told to chose one? If I was the stylist and offered her, let’s say, three pretty bad dresses; she chooses one, looks awful, I would be able to say ‘not my fault, she chose it’ and yet in reality she would look as bad in any of those dresses.

Yeah, I agree it's not the same at all as "she picks her outfits", so I would disregard that comment. It's just that stylist implies that she wants to wear these outfits... "i.e. why are people criticizing if that's what she wants to wear and she is comfortable with it?". Which is BS anyways. people are crtiticizing because they are giving her outfits that are not flattering, simple as that.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Halloween at Tatiana Navka's (with her young daughter and her friends).

https://www.instagram.com/p/CG1phG3nR4m/

 

[hanca]

I listened to that interview, and yes, the designer said "she has the final say". But prior to that he said few other things (in a nut shell):
My goal is not to high-light an individual, but to create a scene in terms of colors and shapes. I have to design "the whole picture". So he is really not thinking if a "color spot and shape" is making person-X (Alina) look 5 pounds heavier...

well, if that’s the case, I would say the stylist is succeeding. She is definitely not highlighting an individual (Alina), but she is creating a scene of colours and shapes. Looking at Alina, someone here on the forum posted association to candy floss. Another of her costumes made me think of a birthday cake... it seems the stylist is indeed managing to create a scene where we can have plenty of associations of various (food) items.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Buyanova posted about Artur Daniellian's recovery.
He started to recover. The doctor removed his cast and stuture; he is currently wearing a brace.
No plans to compete are made yet.

Фигурист Даниелян приступил к восстановлению после операции на ноге - ТАСС

Спортсмен в начале октября пропустил по медицинским показаниям московский этап Кубка России, позднее ему прооперировали голеностоп в немецкой клинике

tass.ru

 

[Tinami Amori]

well, if that’s the case, I would say the stylist is succeeding. She is definitely not highlighting an individual (Alina), but she is creating a scene of colours and shapes. Looking at Alina, someone here on the forum posted association to candy floss. Another of her costumes made me think of a birthday cake... it seems the stylist is indeed managing to create a scene where we can have plenty of associations of various (food) items.

The designer is a "he" - Alexandre Schevchouk
Here is the video interview.

Загитова выбирает одежду САМА / Навка на Евровидении / Стилист Ледникового периода / Фигурка Lite

Новым гостем программы «Фигурка» стал Александр Шевчук – всемирный эксперт моды, имиджмейкер и главный стилист шоу «Ледниковый период», который работал в про...

www.youtube.com

... and here is the "transcript" as an article, which is in Russian but google-translates relatively OK.

«Может быть, иногда Загитова смотрится пухлее». Стилист, который одевает Алину в «Ледниковом периоде» - 29 октября 2020 - Sport24

Эмма Гаджиева пообщалась с Александром Шевчуком.

sport24.ru

 

[syzygy]

I would like to add, on a semi-topical note, that I am interested to see the junior ice dance team who represent Cyprus (but are originally from Russia) progress and glad they did well in at Ice Star.

They have such good chemistry. The pair spin in the free dance had amazing technique and whoever did the choreography did one of the most beautiful beginnings I've ever seen. I'm also glad they did well.

 

[Vash01]

Silly me forgot to save this in time. Did anyone download it?

I got “video not available”

 

[syzygy]

My goal is not to high-light an individual, but to create a scene in terms of colors and shapes. I have to design "the whole picture". So he is really not thinking if a "color spot and shape" is making person-X (Alina) look 5 pounds heavier...

Even if this is the goal, shouldn't an experienced stylist be trying to make the individual look good too? It's truth, certain cuts are flattering; certain ones are not. This applies even if the color is unfortunate. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

Edited for clarity.

 

[AxelAnnie]

My best friend does rhythmic gymnastics in the US. No one sat on her in splits. Stretching hurts, sometimes there are tears. But slow and steady will win the race. Any physical therapist or exercise scientist will tell you that you can reach extraordinary levels of flexibility with minimal pain compared to the way Russians do it.
Edit: keywords are "compared to the way Russians do it." There's gonna be pain

I am rehabbing a surgically repaired rotator cuff. There is no way to stretch The point of the rehab is to get movement back. It only comes back bit by bit, stretch by stretch, and pushing each day.

I don't know "how the Russians do it". But it sure seems effective!

 

[Japanfan]

When ********* started I got more serious about stretching, and stretch almost every day. Seven months ago doing a hamstring stretch my head was a good 10 inches from my leg. Now it's about 2 inches tho I could probably touch if I wanted to. Not once has it ever hurt.
I understand these kids are on a race to achieve perfect positions as soon as possible, but by definition stretching doesn't have to hurt to achieve results.

Yoga would not be so popular among the masses if it caused a lot of pain. Yoga is very much about stretching.

 

[Japanfan]

OMG I feel stupid and validated at the same time

Don't feel stupid. I think your point is worthy of consideration.

Pretty much all sports involve pain and injury for athletes. But it is one thing for a teen/an adult to go through that, being able to give consent. Quite another for a child to go through that.

I do get that starting young might be requisite for success in rhythmic gymnastics, but TBH, I don't honestly buy it.

 

[Ka3sha]

Does she have an online store? I just went to the site and there is no link under the profile. I want to get a hoodie as well!

And here is Liza’s official website

Empress Wear - Интернет-магазин

Магазин женской и мужской одежды Елизаветы Туктамышыевой, чемпионки мира по фигурному катанию.

empresswear.ru

 

[Jeschke]

Btw what’s going on with Korovin? I thought he had a new partner?

 

[barbarafan]

It is incomprehensible, far beyond human comprehension; teamtuberidze pettiness is limitless.

amen

 

[barbarafan]

Загитова выбирает одежду САМА / Навка на Евровидении / Стилист Ледникового периода / Фигурка Lite

Новым гостем программы «Фигурка» стал Александр Шевчук – всемирный эксперт моды, имиджмейкер и главный стилист шоу «Ледниковый период», который работал в про...

www.youtube.com

OK, I guess that's not the most accurate way of putting it . "She is actively involved and has the final say. on what she is going to wear"... I don't know if that person (stylist) is just trying to shift responsibility for those poor outfits to her.

Maybe she was allowed to choose between a few. I wonder what the rejects looked like.

 

[Skibean]

Maybe it’s just Alina’s taste. We may find it hideous, but it’s entirely possible she likes those things

 

[hanca]

Btw what’s going on with Korovin? I thought he had a new partner?

I haven’t heard anything about him having a new partner. It was Efimova who has a new partner.

 

[hanca]

Yoga would not be so popular among the masses if it caused a lot of pain. Yoga is very much about stretching.

The question is, would yoga itself have the same results as the elite rhythmic gymnasts need? Yoga does make a person flexible, but does it make you flexible into the same extent?

 

[AxelAnnie]

You may be flexible more than the average non athletic person, but are you sure you can say you know how to get as flexible as the top rhythmic gymnasts? Because their flexibility is just insane, and while it may not be painful to do what you are doing, I would guess you are quite far away from where the rhythmic gymnasts need to get, and you don’t really know whether your way you could ever get there. The same way as learning to play the piano can be done by practising one hour per day, but playing like the people who get the International classical music award may need the person to practice 8 hours per day.

Well that is just silly. Not all body types will stretch or have the ability to be stretcht to be a gymnast. But all bodies can stretch and stretching is good for everyone.

 

[hanca]

Well that is just silly. Not all body types will stretch or have the ability to be stretcht to be a gymnast. But all bodies can stretch and stretching is good for everyone.

Of course not everyone can be rhythmic gymnast - I was told my hip placement will make side splits impossible, regardless of the amount of stretching. Also, no one is disputing that moderate stretching is good for everyone. But that was not the point.

This discussion started by someone criticising a group of rhythmic gymnasts for the painful way they do their stretching. So the discussion is about whether there is another way (less painful way) the rhythmic gymnasts could do to achieve the same results. And I am talking about rhythmic gymnasts who take it seriously and aim for the elite sport, not rhythmic gymnasts who do it once a week for fun and leave the sport after a year or two.

 

[syzygy]

The question is, would yoga itself have the same results as the elite rhythmic gymnasts need? Yoga does make a person flexible, but does it make you flexible into the same extent?

I do believe that one could become flexible enough without pain to the same extent. Though not with yoga. I haven't seen many yoga poses that require 90º over-splits. There is no evidence to suggest that muscles don't become flexible without pain at a certain point in time or flexibility. I assume it would just take way too long to ever be acceptable. It would be like landing an axel one year, then taking a year to land a double salchow, then another year for the 2T, then another year for the 2Lo, etc. Way too long to ever be competitive. By the time the skater that's taking a year to get all their jumps has their double axel, they would have aged out of international junior. Same with RG, would take way too long and their career would be over. I don't believe pain to the point of crying is a requirement in most cases.
We also have to be careful to distinguish between types of pain. There's extreme discomfort. I got my needle two years ago (what I believe is called a candlestick in some parts of the world, but that's what my coach calls it) stretching with extreme discomfort. It wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't pain. To anyone who knows the feeling, it was the same amount of discomfort that dancing ballet on pointe is once you develop enough callouses. I then got a hyperextended needle a couple months later. Stretching for that didn't hurt in a bad way, but there was definitely pain involved because I was pushing myself to get it very quickly. Over COVID, I stopped stretching the extreme positions I need for my spins and spirals (big mistake). I'm now trying to get the hyperextended needle back because it makes my balance in a regular needle better on the ice. So far no pain involved. Just, as always with extreme stretches, lots and lots of discomfort. There is also the type of pain when something goes wrong, such as when you pull a muscle. This hurts and will continue to hurt once out of the stretch. This is something that should always be avoided, obviously. I'm a figure skater, not a rhythmic gymnast, so obviously I don't do all the moves that they do, but from my experience stretching, pain was only a necessity when I needed to get new moves very quickly. Just my two cents. And wow this is a wall of text.

 

[AxelAnnie]

You may be flexible more than the average non athletic person, but are you sure you can say you know how to get as flexible as the top rhythmic gymnasts? Because their flexibility is just insane, and while it may not be painful to do what you are doing, I would guess you are quite far away from where the rhythmic gymnasts need to get, and you don’t really know whether your way you could ever get there. The same way as learning to play the piano can be done by practising one hour per day, but playing like the people who get the International classical music award may need the person to practice 8 hours per day.

I don't get your point.

I do believe that one could become flexible enough without pain to the same extent. Though not with yoga. I haven't seen many yoga poses that require 90º over-splits. There is no evidence to suggest that muscles don't become flexible without pain at a certain point in time or flexibility. I assume it would just take way too long to ever be acceptable. It would be like landing an axel one year, then taking a year to land a double salchow, then another year for the 2T, then another year for the 2Lo, etc. Way too long to ever be competitive. By the time the skater that's taking a year to get all their jumps has their double axel, they would have aged out of international junior. Same with RG, would take way too long and their career would be over. I don't believe pain to the point of crying is a requirement in most cases.
We also have to be careful to distinguish between types of pain. There's extreme discomfort. I got my needle two years ago (what I believe is called a candlestick in some parts of the world, but that's what my coach calls it) stretching with extreme discomfort. It wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't pain. To anyone who knows the feeling, it was the same amount of discomfort that dancing ballet on pointe is once you develop enough callouses. I then got a hyperextended needle a couple months later. Stretching for that didn't hurt in a bad way, but there was definitely pain involved because I was pushing myself to get it very quickly. Over *********, I stopped stretching the extreme positions I need for my spins and spirals (big mistake). I'm now trying to get the hyperextended needle back because it makes my balance in a regular needle better on the ice. So far no pain involved. Just, as always with extreme stretches, lots and lots of discomfort. There is also the type of pain when something goes wrong, such as when you pull a muscle. This hurts and will continue to hurt once out of the stretch. This is something that should always be avoided, obviously. I'm a figure skater, not a rhythmic gymnast, so obviously I don't do all the moves that they do, but from my experience stretching, pain was only a necessity when I needed to get new moves very quickly. Just my two cents. And wow this is a wall of text.

I did understand. And I do agree with you no one should be stretched plopped on to force a stretch...that is going to end in injury. Everyone has a different limit on a different day. And the person leading or coaching or whatever should be trained to know that.

 

[Sylvia]

Kostornaia clip from her FS (R&J final? section) shows her landing 3F+3T, 3F-half loop-3S & 3Lz: https://www.instagram.com/p/CHE_bqjKmsl/

 

[syzygy]

I did understand. And I do agree with you no one should be stretched plopped on to force a stretch...that is going to end in injury. Everyone has a different limit on a different day. And the person leading or coaching or whatever should be trained to know that.

I totally agree. Sadly, most coaches in most sports don't get much formal training in kinesiology. I really respect the ones who do their research.

Kostornaia clip from her FS (R&J final? section) shows her landing 3F+3T, 3F-half loop-3S & 3Lz: https://www.instagram.com/p/CHE_bqjKmsl/

They look so effortless!