Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

[MsZem]

Queen!

of the Netherlands.

Breaking Jewel News: Máxima Wears the Full Stuart Tiara, Kate in a New Loan and an Order, and More British/Dutch State Banquet Surprises

Máxima makes breaking news with the same tiara twice in one year and THAT’S NOT EVEN ALL. What an event. (As ever, click the individual jewe...

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Netherlands

The Tiarapedia: Netherlands Below is a list of the tiaras worn by the women of the Dutch royal family; it includes only the tiaras curren...

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Being a member of the Swedish royal family also works.

 

[becca]

The fact that they set up the website as SussexRoyal is not some horrible "trading on their connections". They ARE the Sussex's, no one else is. And Harry IS a prince, no matter what he does in future will not change that fact. So if they are able to get support for their charities by using their names, so what? (Paul Newman charities is a huge entity - he got that support by using his name. Danny Thomas got support for St Jude's by using his name. There's nothing shameful in that.) As a royal he needs protection because of who he is. If they entirely retire from public live that could change within a couple of years but I doubt it. But I guess if he doesn't knuckle under & lives his life how his family wants he won't receive the support that was ear-marked for him.

I have always had the opinion that William and/or the family said a lot more than "you're moving too fast" to cause such a rift. If that was all William said it would be a non-issue by now. DH's sister told him not to marry me because I was older than him & she was dead serious. That didn't cause either of us to want to cut her out of our lives.

BTW the Disney deal is for voice work. /oh horrors!

It doesn’t sound like the support is just for charities though. It may be their name but it doesn’t look good for a member of the royal family to do that.

As for the support earmarked its ear marked with the understanding they will perform royal duties.

If they aren’t doing it than it’s perfectly fair for the money to go elsewhere.

 

[taf2002]

It doesn’t sound like the support is just for charities though. It may be their name but it doesn’t look good for a member of the royal family to do that.

As for the support earmarked its ear marked with the understanding they will perform royal duties.

If they aren’t doing it than it’s perfectly fair for the money to go elsewhere.

It doesn't look good? Suz who? Is he supposed to live his life based on what random people think doesn't look good?

As for the support being tied to royal duties. Prince Charles is his father. I know there is family who tie inheritance or support to toeing the line. I just always thought it was manipulive.

 

[skategal]

Well they keep saying that they will spend half their time in the UK (I assume doing royal duties then) so wouldn't they be entitled to keep some of their financial support?

Why is there even the question that they should have none of it?

 

[becca]

It doesn't look good? Suz who? Is he supposed to live his life based on what random people think doesn't look good?

As for the support being tied to royal duties. Prince Charles is his father. I know there is family who tie inheritance or support to toeing the line. I just always thought it was manipulive.

No one had talked about taking away the money he inherited.

The British public pays for security that’s not inheritance. They don’t pay for Andrew’s daughters, Anne’s children.
If Harry and Meghan aren’t doing royal duties why should the British have to pay?

We aren’t talking about inheritance. Harry has no right to inherit the Duchy that goes to William.

Charles supports them but if they want financial independence and to trade of the title why should he have to?

Furthermore Andrews daughters may have to take their place why should Harry and Meghan get more funding than people doing the work.

It’s a pretty understood contract with the people the royal family gets funding in exchange for royal duties done.

It sounds like the British public feels okay you want to leave but we don’t want to financial support. From polls

 

[kittyjake5]

At the end of the day excluding the family drama it is a job, a somewhat complicated job but a job nevertheless. Harry and Meghan are stepping down from
their Senior Royal Job. I believe The Firm who is their employer will present a severance package to them to sign, which I am sure will have quite a few
legalities in it to protect the Firm and that will be the end of it.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

As for the support being tied to royal duties. Prince Charles is his father. I know there is family who tie inheritance or support to toeing the line. I just always thought it was manipulive.

I know there are adult children who think their parents should pay their way because they can afford it, but I always thought that was lazy and entitled.

 

[AxelAnnie]

The more I think of it, it's tempting to have this revolve around Meghan, when Harry has probably been wanting to leave the royal family for a very long time, well before he met her. I do wonder if Meghan represented a ticket out for him and an excuse to leave.

It's disappointing to me that a royal like Harry, who was always a real favourite, doesn't want it (or the people) anymore. There's more to being a royal than just newspaper articles. It's the public that are excited to meet them at events, walkabouts, royal tours. And so the way this whole thing very visibly represents a middle finger to the royal family and the Commonwealth is regrettable.

And in that sense, if it becomes a case that Harry wants to leave for North America and potentially say to the people that he isn't interested in them anymore (and potentially doing a host of interviews and books that are critical to the country)... it's hard for him to justify living off millions of pounds of rent each year that has been paid by the people to the Duchy of Cornwall.

It's a long way from King George and the Princesses who refused to leave Buckingham Palace while London was being bombed in WWII - the famous quote from the Queen Mother: The children won't go without me. I won't leave without the King. And the King will never leave.

And I might just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsrRFNhdCOE

For all the talk of others, the Queen has walked the walked and in my opinion will go down as one of the great feminist icons of female dignity and power in history.

Exactly. And at the opposite end of the social media spectrum, there's also a lot of support for the Sussexes, most of which is a good thing (a small fraction is the nastier stans, who should be ignored).

There is support for his leaving. However i have seen no support for his leaving but keeping the money and using his royal status to make a fortune. That is called i want the fun but don't want to do the work part

 

[mag]

As for the support being tied to royal duties. Prince Charles is his father. I know there is family who tie inheritance or support to toeing the line. I just always thought it was manipulive.

This has been said, but I will say it one more time, the Duchy of Cornwall is the income earmarked to support the heir to the throne. Charles may choose to continue to support Harry and Meghan while he is the Prince of Wales, but I would not be surprised if that support was required to stop when he becomes King and William is Prince of Wales. Charles does not provide support to his siblings. Harry has more than enough money from is mother’s and great grandmother’s estate (who left him more than she left William) to support himself in great comfort for the rest of his life.

Well they keep saying that they will spend half their time in the UK (I assume doing royal duties then) so wouldn't they be entitled to keep some of their financial support?

I think the question is can they continue to do things such as Royal tours while they are monetizing their brand to support their lives and charitable endeavours. I don’t know the answer, but I suspect it is a very complex issue. Perhaps much more complex than Harry and Meghan think it is.

 

[Coco]

One thing I'm confused about is why Meghan made a beeline back to Canada. Surely she could have stayed a few days to hash things out with Prince Charles, William, and the Queen? Unless relationships are so broken they can't be in the same spaces together even to discuss life-changing events.

At the time plans were made, namely - the plan of leaving Archie in Canada to avoid two trans Atlantic flights in a week, there were no assurances they would get a meeting with the Queen.

I think the really untenable aspect for Harry is that he's got precious little control over his own life, his own ventures, he must do as he's told, on the pace and schedule as determined by others who will never prioritize him...with his only hope being an eventual demotion at a time when he (and certainly she) will be too old to capture the media's interest the way they could capture it now.

Andrew and Edward struggled, each in their own way. Anne seems uniquely unconcerned with her media coverage.

For Harry, with no other siblings to commiserate and share the reflected spotlight with, well it's a shame no one had worked out a better plan far earlier. This frustration is totally foreseeable.

 

[Judy]

Well I am sure it is highly complex. I’m sure the Royal family will get through this somehow. I do feel a bit sad for the situation but at least it is not like Harry died.

 

[becca]

At the time plans were made, namely - the plan of leaving Archie in Canada to avoid two trans Atlantic flights in a week, there were no assurances they would get a meeting with the Queen.

I think the really untenable aspect for Harry is that he's got precious little control over his own life, his own ventures, he must do as he's told, on the pace and schedule as determined by others who will never prioritize him...with his only hope being an eventual demotion at a time when he (and certainly she) will be too old to capture the media's interest the way they could capture it now.

Andrew and Edward struggled, each in their own way. Anne seems uniquely unconcerned with her media coverage.

For Harry, with no other siblings to commiserate and share the reflected spotlight with, well it's a shame no one had worked out a better plan far earlier. This frustration is totally foreseeable.

I have no doubt it sucks it sucked for Prince Phillip who I think would have liked to progress in his career in the navy.

But in Harry’s case it doesn’t seem like he took huge steps to transition to something else his grades weren’t good. And he left the military early.

My understanding is the Queen was trying to arrange something with the Commonwealth. Him wanting out I actually understand but wanting fiances to remain the same. Not really.

I am also not convinced Harry is really getting what Harry wants. I think Harry might be happy living in Africa working in quiet with charities no media.

In contrast I think the plan is going to be them as international celebrity royals and I don’t see them really escaping the media if anything it may be worse.

And that’s where I find the whole it’s all the racism and the media’s fault. It doesn’t seem like the plan is to really escape media attention.

 

[Judy]

O

I have no doubt it sucks it sucked for Prince Phillip who I think would have liked to progress in his career in the navy.

But in Harry’s case it doesn’t seem like he took huge steps to transition to something else his grades weren’t good. And he left the military early.

My understanding is the Queen was trying to arrange something with the Commonwealth. Him wanting out I actually understand but wanting fiances to remain the same. Not really.

I am also not convinced Harry is really getting what Harry wants. I think Harry might be happy living in Africa working in quiet with charities no media.

In contrast I think the plan is going to be them as international celebrity royals and I don’t see them really escaping the media if anything it may be worse.

And that’s where I find the whole it’s all the racism and the media’s fault. It doesn’t seem like the plan is to really escape media attention.

oh the media is pretty tame in Canada. I don’t think it’s any one thing but a bunch all together.

 

[overedge]

The racism may not be the media's fault, but I am not surprised that H&M may not want to live in a country where to some people she will always be an outsider. She's an outsider because she was born elsewhere, she's biracial, she's already been married once, and she isn't part of a wealthy or titled family.

Part of my family is from the UK, and while I'm not going to say the UK is any better or worse than other countries, the casual racism that some of them grew up with (and which sadly some of them still have) is quite astonishing to me. It's very different from what I'm used to in Canada, which has its own very sad history of racism.

I mean, not too long ago some people were upset when a Muslim woman with a hijab won the Great British Bakeoff TV show. Like she shouldn't have been allowed to win because it's a "British" show. If people get that bent out of shape about a TV show (and from what I saw this was more than the usual online trolls and nutcases) imagine the depth of animosity that Meghan must experience.

 

[becca]

O


oh the media is pretty tame in Canada. I don’t think it’s any one thing but a bunch all together.

it may be tame in Canada but we live in a global world they are going to get media attention

 

[AxelAnnie]

I have no doubt it sucks it sucked for Prince Phillip who I think would have liked to progress in his career in the navy.

But in Harry’s case it doesn’t seem like he took huge steps to transition to something else his grades weren’t good. And he left the military early.

My understanding is the Queen was trying to arrange something with the Commonwealth. Him wanting out I actually understand but wanting fiances to remain the same. Not really.

I am also not convinced Harry is really getting what Harry wants. I think Harry might be happy living in Africa working in quiet with charities no media.

In contrast I think the plan is going to be them as international celebrity royals and I don’t see them really escaping the media if anything it may be worse.

And that’s where I find the whole it’s all the racism and the media’s fault. It doesn’t seem like the plan is to really escape media attention.

I agree with what you have said. I agree that Harry would be happy working quietly on his own. Showing up when he must, and then back to doing what makes him feel like he is making a difference in the world (a la Diana).

Moving from working royals to celebrity royals only amps up what they say they are trying to avoid....more spotlight.
Doesn't seem like Harry is getting what Harry wants/needs.

I read somewhere that William said (about all this) that he has walked through life with his arm around his brother. I am sure that is true, and I am sure this must be horrible for William.

Why is Meghan invited to join the meeting on Monday? It does not appear that any of the other spouses have that invitation.

 

[becca]

The racism may not be the media's fault, but I am not surprised that H&M may not want to live in a country where to some people she will always be an outsider. She's an outsider because she was born elsewhere, she's biracial, she's already been married once, and she isn't part of a wealthy or titled family.

Part of my family is from the UK, and while I'm not going to say the UK is any better or worse than other countries, the casual racism that some of them grew up with (and which sadly some of them still have) is quite astonishing to me. It's very different from what I'm used to in Canada, which has its own very sad history of racism.

I mean, not too long ago some people were upset when a Muslim woman with a hijab won the Great British Bakeoff TV show. Like she shouldn't have been allowed to win because it's a "British" show. If people get that bent out of shape about a TV show (and from what I saw this was more than the usual online trolls and nutcases) imagine the depth of animosity that Meghan must experience.

Perhaps but my understanding is support for Meghan and Harry was high in the beginning they made some missteps.

Furthermore Meghan is joining the royal family of Britain. There has to be an element of adapting to that institution.

For example it’s not political for good reasons but it seems like maybe Meghan didn’t like that. There was all kinds of talk about being disrupters wanting change but honestly?What about what the people want from their royal family. I don’t think the people want a political royal family. And in the end the royal family hinges on the good will of the people.

Seems to me that one should be part of institution for awhile get to knows it culture and how it works before talking about radical changes.

There is an article out there that Harry and Meghan are surrounded by yes men and don’t want to hear no or that’s unwise from anyone but are quick to blame others when things go awry.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Why is Meghan invited to join the meeting on Monday? It does not appear that any of the other spouses have that invitation.

Because whatever is decided will affect her life as much as it does Harry's and it is necessary and right that she is involved in the discussion. Camilla and Kate aren't principals in the situation (and if they have any sense would run far, far away from that meeting even if invited).

 

[mag]

Showing up when he must, and then back to doing what makes him feel like he is making a difference in the world (a la Diana).

I do wish we could once and for all get rid of this bit of misinformation. Yes, the paparazzi hounding of Diana in the streets and airports was terrible and inexcusable, but Diana courted the mainstream media and it has reported by more than one reporter that she had a very active campaign going against Charles and used reporters to get her message out. I heard one recently mention it and say how uncomfortable it made him.

Why is Meghan invited to join the meeting on Monday? It does not appear that any of the other spouses have that invitation.

Given that the result will have a massive affect on Meghan’s life, I would be shocked if she was not included.

 

[Judy]

Oh

I do wish we could once and for all get rid of this bit of misinformation. Yes, the paparazzi hounding of Diana in the streets and airports was terrible and inexcusable, but Diana courted the mainstream media and it has reported by more than one reporter that she had a very active campaign going against Charles and used reporters to get her message out. I heard one recently mention it and say how uncomfortable it made him.



Given that the result will have a massive affect on Meghan’s life, I would be shocked if she was not included.

for sure Diana used the media too.

She was a 19 year old child when she married Charles, went through quite a lot with her bulima and mental health etc. That couldn’t have been easy on Charles either. I was thinking she was coming into her own though when she died. But yes she used the press too.

 

[overedge]

Furthermore Meghan is joining the royal family of Britain. There has to be an element of adapting to that institution.

It's not as simple as that. She can't change that she is biracial, or American, or divorced, or an actress. For some people, she will never be able to be "one of us" because of some or all of those qualities.

In the UK there is also the overlay of the social class system - not just the monarchy and the peerage, but also the part of the country or the city you grow up in, what school you went to, and how you speak. Again, the UK may not be better or worse than other countries in this regard, but it certainly makes a difference in how you might be treated. You might be admitted to certain occupations or institutions (like universities or the monarchy) but you didn't have the same background and experiences growing up as the majority of people in there, or the same social networks or connections. You can learn how to act in a way that helps you be accepted, but you still don't really fit in.

Michelle Obama talks about this kind of thing quite thoughtfully in her autobiography. She grew up in a middle-class family in Chicago, and because she was smart and worked hard, she went to Princeton and then to Harvard. Neither of her parents went to university, so she really didn't know what to expect when she started university. I think she says something like, there were students driving BMWs and I didn't even know any parents who had BMWs. At one point she describes herself as feeling like a "visitor", being welcomed but not really being part of things.

I get your point about how maybe Meghan stepped on toes within the royal family with some of the things she did or said. But that doesn't negate the possibility that no matter what she does, she is always going to be an outsider in some eyes.

 

[taf2002]

It occurred to me that maybe the RF was informed & was not blindsided. If so & if then the Queen and/or Charles told them absolutely NO then they may have felt they didn't have a choice but to make a public announcement. That's a lot of ifs but I think it may be a possibility.

IMO the only misstep Meghan has made in all this is the announcement of the Disney deal. The timing was not the best. But both of them have as much right to not be part of the firm as Anne's children. As for wanting support, if they spend their time in their charities where they may not want to draw a paycheck maybe they were just hoping Daddy dearest would continue their allowance.

 

[Sparks]

Meghan's deal with Disney benefits Elephants Without Borders.

Meghan Markle Lends Her Voice to a Disney Film About Elephants

It's a perfect job for a former-actress-turned-princess.

www.townandcountrymag.com

 

[mag]

It occurred to me that maybe the RF was informed & was not blindsided. If so & if then the Queen and/or Charles told them absolutely NO then they may have felt they didn't have a choice but to make a public announcement. That's a lot of ifs but I think it may be a possibility.

All the reliable reporting I have read or listened to says that the Family was well aware that H&M were unhappy and wanted a change. It has also said that the six week break was for H&M to have time to think about what they want and come back to work out a plan. I have also read that some of the planning was slowed down because of the need to deal with train wreck Andy. That certainly seems reasonable. I don’t think the Family was blindsided by the basic idea. I think they were blindsided by H&M putting out a public announcement and launching a new website right out of the gate before a transition plan was in place. The website, which I have read because I cannot seem to get rid of this cold, makes a lot of assumptions that may or may not be possible. If I was the Queen, Charles, or William, I would be annoyed about the announcement and right pissed off about the website. Especially about the inference that the website is the only place to get accurate news. That is a big slap in the face to infer that the Palace, Clarence House, or Kensington Royal might lie. H&M may have felt things were moving too slowly, but to suggest that Harry’s family is not operating in good faith is really a bridge too far.

ETA: If I had to guess, I think all the headlines about rage are BS. I think there must be a lot of sadness. Hopefully there is also introspection on both sides about things they could have done differently.

 

[becca]

It's not as simple as that. She can't change that she is biracial, or American, or divorced, or an actress. For some people, she will never be able to be "one of us" because of some or all of those qualities.

In the UK there is also the overlay of the social class system - not just the monarchy and the peerage, but also the part of the country or the city you grow up in, what school you went to, and how you speak. Again, the UK may not be better or worse than other countries in this regard, but it certainly makes a difference in how you might be treated. You might be admitted to certain occupations or institutions (like universities or the monarchy) but you didn't have the same background and experiences growing up as the majority of people in there, or the same social networks or connections. You can learn how to act in a way that helps you be accepted, but you still don't really fit in.

Michelle Obama talks about this kind of thing quite thoughtfully in her autobiography. She grew up in a middle-class family in Chicago, and because she was smart and worked hard, she went to Princeton and then to Harvard. Neither of her parents went to university, so she really didn't know what to expect when she started university. I think she says something like, there were students driving BWMs and I didn't even know any parents who had BMWs. At one point she describes herself as feeling like a "visitor", being welcomed but not really being part of things.

I get your point about how maybe Meghan stepped on toes within the royal family with some of the things she did or said. But that doesn't negate the possibility that no matter what she does, she is always going to be an outsider in some eyes.

Yes but you always have her detractors in the beginning she was better liked.

Prince Phillip who is literally a descendant of Queen Victoria wasn’t considered good enough. He was a poor relation.

No one was going to be good enough

The point is not all of her criticisms are over race or being an American.

There were people who were excited about Meghan because of her race and background.

Kate got criticism too but both Phillip and Kate have gotten respect by quietly doing their duty.

 

[SkateSand]

Meghan's deal with Disney benefits Elephants Without Borders.

Meghan Markle Lends Her Voice to a Disney Film About Elephants

It's a perfect job for a former-actress-turned-princess.

www.townandcountrymag.com

See, I don't see anything wrong with this. I guess it's against the Royal rules, but I think this is exactly the kind of thing that Meghan wants to be involved with and is being stifled by "The Firm." Except for people who like to kill elephants, what is there to object to?

 

[mag]

See, I don't see anything wrong with this. I guess it's against the Royal rules, but I think this is exactly the kind of thing that Meghan wants to be involved with and is being stifled by "The Firm." Except for people who like to kill elephants, what is there to object to?

Do we know it was objected to? It is volunteer work just like any other volunteer work.

ETA: I don’t think this is substantially any different than writing the forward to a book which I believe both Kate and Meghan have already done.

 

[SkateSand]

Do we know it was objected to? It is volunteer work just like any other volunteer work.

According to tabloid trash, it was objected to by the Royal Family. Of course, there is so much garbage out there, it's impossible to know what's true.

Meghan Markle signs a voiceover deal with Disney

The Duchess of Sussex recorded the voiceover before the royal couple left for their six-week break to Canada to celebrate Christmas. Signing was in return for a donation to an elephant charity.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[canbelto]

Ok unfortunately some dedicated royal fashion bloggers have gotten a lot of harassment over the last couple of days. There's one blog that I frequent where comments had to be turned off entirely. What is wrong with people? These are just fashion bloggers and they're not reporters. People are garbage.

 

[overedge]

Yes but you always have her detractors in the beginning she was better liked.

Prince Phillip who is literally a descendant of Queen Victoria wasn’t considered good enough. He was a poor relation.

No one was going to be good enough

The point is not all of her criticisms are over race or being an American.

There were people who were excited about Meghan because of her race and background.

Kate got criticism too but both Phillip and Kate have gotten respect by quietly doing their duty.

Criticisms don't have to be statements of "you're not all white" or "you weren't born here" to be based on race or nationality. You're missing my point about how not growing up in a certain kind of setting is always in the background because the outsider doesn't have that same context.

If someone is already being perceived as an outsider, they're going to be more closely scrutinized, and what might be written off as mistakes or misunderstandings by others might be characterized as worse if that person does the same thing.

Kate has been criticized, yes, and I do recall some comments suggesting that her parents were "common" because they didn't have titles and their money was from running their company, not inherited. And she didn't grow up on an estate or go to a posh school. But she is white and she is British. So she has more cultural context in which to fit into the royals than Meghan does. That's not a criticism of Meghan, it's just a reality.