Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

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overedge

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The UK magazine Private Eye has a regular column written by "Flunkey" who either works in the Royal Household or has very good contacts among the staff there. I don't have the most recent issue, but "Flunkey"'s comments in the last couple of issues suggest that the Queen, William, and Charles were not happy with how Harry & Meghan were participating (or not participating) in the work of "The Firm", and the staff that are most closely involved in the decision-making weren't happy either. But then the Prince Andrew thing blew up and they had to turn their attention to that, rather than deciding how to deal with H&M.
 

Judy

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For the record, I like Kate as well as Meghan. i Doubt that this is just about Meghan though and is something Harry really wants to try. I highly doubt he’ll be doing interviews etc to trash the Royal family. I think it has the potential to work out.
 

liv

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I was disappointed with how this news was made public, apparently against the wishes of the Queen. There should have been a little more respect there. They could have at least waited a couple of more days so that Kate's birthday could have passed first (nice birthday gift, H and M).

However, what is done is done and if this is what needs to be done for their happiness, then so be it. I think Meghan will always land on her feet no matter what happens, but I certainly hope this brings Harry the happiness he is looking for.

I am reminded of that interview a couple of years ago that first rubbed her family the wrong way when Harry said something like Meghan's first Christmas with the Royal family was like the family Christmas Meghan never had growing up... her family was quite offended and things only got worse from there... And now it's gotten to the point where they are leaving his family too. Too bad.
 

ribbon

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The Dailymail is trashy but it can have good photos and video of royal events. There’s a new video of the Lion King premiere - before the focus was on Meghan talking to Beyoncé but now the attention is on Harry. I’m sure he’d say he’s “joking” with the a Disney CEO about Meghan wanting voiceover work but it’s very clear from the body language that the CEO is uncomfortable and not entirely sure if the conversation is in jest or a true request. It puts the royals in a bad light, just like when Sarah Ferguson would try to market herself. I worry that in order to have family unity, the Queen will allow them a lot of freedom which may backfire If Harry wasn’t joking after all.
 

Judy

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I was disappointed with how this news was made public, apparently against the wishes of the Queen. There should have been a little more respect there. They could have at least waited a couple of more days so that Kate's birthday could have passed first (nice birthday gift, H and M).

However, what is done is done and if this is what needs to be done for their happiness, then so be it. I think Meghan will always land on her feet no matter what happens, but I certainly hope this brings Harry the happiness he is looking for.

I am reminded of that interview a couple of years ago that first rubbed her family the wrong way when Harry said something like Meghan's first Christmas with the Royal family was like the family Christmas Meghan never had growing up... her family was quite offended and things only got worse from there... And now it's gotten to the point where they are leaving his family too. Too bad.
He’s not leaving his family though. They will be back living there for 6 months. Meghan is close to her mom as well. How often do they see each other anyways?
 

puglover

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Maybe to put a bit more "fun" into this - I am very enchanted with Savannah Phillips - daughter of Princess Anne's son Peter and his Canadian born wife Autumn, and the Queen's oldest great grandchild. She is the tall, blonde girl seen in several pictures with her hand over Prince George's mouth. Judging by pictures she seems to have quite the personality.
 

canbelto

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I really think the feud with William was what triggered this drastic decision. What could have led to such a bitter rift no one will ever know but it seems as if they can't even be in the same spaces together.
 

becca

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Well this is interesting. It is the Daily Mail, but they are quoting Tom Bradby who is know to be a good friend of both Princes.

This makes them look really bad. I am sorry I have no problem with them leaving if they want. It’s their lives. But surely they should Understand doing less means less funding.
Threatening to bad mouth family to press is really awful.
 

canbelto

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I don’t trust the Daily Mail as a source. The only part of the article that seems verifiable is the rift between Harry and William and that’s old news.
 

mag

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@canbelto It is not the Daily Mail that you need to trust. It is asking whether or not you trust Tom Bradby. Given he did the ITV documentary, has shown up on a number of morning shows recently, and is know to be a friend of both William and Harry’s, unless he comes out tomorrow and says he never said it, I am inclined believe it.

Furthermore, this quote is from Bradby from a People article which may have been linked to earlier but I will put the link in again.

““A lot of harsh things were said around the time of the wedding. And it’s gone a bit too far. And certainly the rest of the family find Harry and Meghan very difficult and, from Harry and Meghan’s point of view, they’re just being driven out as they see it. And it’s sad,“ he said.”

This is first time I think we have seen a quote from a reliable source that indicates that Harry and Meghan may be difficult to work with. It has certainly been hinted at, as has the part about there being some disagreements prior to the wedding. I think it is safe to assume that was probably William’s “you are moving too fast” talk.

The article goes on to say that the being driven out part has been “...discredited by numerous palace aids.”

“I don’t think you could point to any evidence of them being forced out, or made to feel unwelcome,” one palace aid told U.K. newspaper The Times. “The future of the monarchy always had the Sussexes very much at the heart of it, and perhaps still will depending on what structures they arrive at.”


It certainly makes sense to me that there has probably been more than one disagreement and more than one person being difficult or saying too much for this to get to this stage. These things are very rarely the fault of one person or side.
 

canbelto

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Here’s the thing. Harry is 35. He just met Meghan in 2016. I doubt all these difficult behaviors manifested themselves only after they got married. People aren’t like that.

i also don’t think ppl change that much. So whatever is here now was there before. Question is why it was kept under wraps then but all coming out now.

compare this to Andrew: his poor judgment has actually been covered consistently throughout his life, as has the Queen’s indulgence of her favorite son. And these stories came from pretty reliable royal reporters.
 

mag

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Here’s the thing. Harry is 35. He just met Meghan in 2016. I doubt all these difficult behaviors manifested themselves only after they got married. People aren’t like that.
I agree completely. There is enough evidence in Harry, Meghan, William, and Charles’ past to suggest they can all be difficult at times. It is just interesting to get confirmation of that from a reliable source. I wouldn’t be surprised if Harry and Meghan have changed a bit after having a baby. That does happen. I also wouldn’t be surprised if William and Charles changed a bit now that the Queen is getting on and they are getting closer to the throne.

i also don’t think ppl change that much. So whatever is here now was there before. Question is why it was kept under wraps then but all coming out now.
I think these articles and information is coming out now because Harry and Meghan dropped such a bombshell with their announcement. I have no idea if that was the intent or not, but it doesn’t really matter. What is done is done and the public are going to clammer for more and more information. It may not be pretty, but that is the way it seems to work. I have no evidence to support this next statement, but I would put good money on Harry having agreed to have Tom Bradby speak out.

compare this to Andrew: his poor judgment has actually been covered consistently throughout his life, as has the Queen’s indulgence of her favorite son. And these stories came from pretty reliable royal reporters.
Again, I completely agree. Those same reliable royal reporters are probably ones who have written both flattering and unflattering things about the Sussex’s. About how there is a rift between the brothers and how they have been operating in a silo. If they are reliable when it comes to Andrew I see no reason they wouldn’t be reliable when it comes to Harry and Meghan, or William and Kate for that matter.
 

Barbara Manatee

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Courtiers fear that Meghan would brand the royal household racist and sexist, according to the publication.
That would hardly be a newsflash. But letting the press know you'll be glad to let it go if you get enough money means 1. you aren't any better and 2. you need to work on your blackmail skills.
 

puglover

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Well, there seems to be a general feeling of support for Harry and Meghan and their desire for a different future for themselves and their son. If they do a tell all I would think they would run the huge risk of alienating a significant number of people which could affect their future immensely. If they truly are seeking financial independence and support for their charities, they will need public good will. I would hope the respect and love for the Queen trumps all. I also think William and Kate and their children are largely viewed favorably and people get it that brothers don't always get along but taking those squabbles publicly seems ill advised to me.
 

overedge

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The UK monarchy hasn't reacted well in the past when members of the inner circle have "told all". Like the nanny who took care of Elizabeth and Margaret when they were little. She wrote a "tell-all" book after she left the Palace, and IIRC it really wasn't all that scandalous. But Elizabeth and the rest of the Royals never spoke to her again, and she got kicked out of her grace-and-favour house.

This was in the 1950s, so maybe the response would be a little kinder now. But I guess it depends, if H&M do any kind of "tell-all", what they tell and how much they tell...
 

Lorac

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Well this is interesting. It is the Daily Mail, but they are quoting Tom Bradby who is know to be a good friend of both Princes.

By allowing a person who is perceived to be a good friend say that they may give a no-holds barred interview if they feel hard done to is just downright blackmail IMO. Harry seems to truly feel he is due all the stuff he has set up on his webpage. It will be interesting to see what we hear about the meeting due to take place this Monday. I agree with others who have said that this decision is nothing about sitting back and having a private family at all - how much though is Her Majesty going to allow them to trade on their royal title to achieve their aims though. That I feel is a major issue to be ironed out.
 

floskate

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What I still do not understand is why people are SO outraged that Harry doesn't want to be a full time royal anymore. And why post the film of the Queen's vow from 1947? What has that got to do with Harry? He's not heir to the throne. He never promised us anything. If you were in a thoroughly toxic position that was destroying yours and your family's lives and.damaging your mental health to such a harmful degree, what would you do? You'd get out. Being made to walk behind his Mother's coffin, enduring a lifetime of rumours about his paternity, more rumours that somehow his own family were behind a plot to kill his Mother etc etc. And then he finally falls in love and finds someone willing to give up everything for him only for his family to turn their noses up at her because she's gasp an actress, and even worse, American and, God forbid, mixed race. And then on what was supposed to be the happiest day of his life, his wedding day, his own brother, step mother, sister in law and cousins are all caught sniggering during the service at the priest Meghan had wanted because his sermon was so......un-British. That had to have hurt both of them so much to see your own family laughing at your wedding ceremony.

So I applaud Harry for putting his mental health and the well being of his family before 'us' his supposed people who someone posted upthread he apparently didn't want anymore. What a load of old bollocks. He wants to do good, to help others in a meaningful way, not ride around in carriages and stand on balconies waving at the masses.
 

kwanfan1818

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About taxation: the US is one of a handful of countries that requires citizens and resident aliens to file pay taxes on worldwide income regardless of where they live. Most countries only require that you pay taxes on worldwide income if you are resident. (Most countries require that you pay taxes only on income sourced in that country, if you live outside of it.) And you don't have to live in a country for six or more months to be consider resident: there are all sorts of ways countries will make the argument that you live there.

There are many tax treaties that eliminate double taxation and determine who gets the primary payment for different kinds of income. Of course, different countries have different rules about exemptions and deductions, so what and how much is taxable differs. Typically, if you are US citizen living elsewhere or you are considered to be resident by more than one country, you create a tax return on worldwide income for each country, and then you get a tax credit for what you paid to the other country. Then you pay the difference, if any.
 

Zemgirl

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What I still do not understand is why people are SO outraged that Harry doesn't want to be a full time royal anymore. And why post the film of the Queen's vow from 1947? What has that got to do with Harry? He's not heir to the throne. He never promised us anything. If you were in a thoroughly toxic position that was destroying yours and your family's lives and.damaging your mental health to such a harmful degree, what would you do? You'd get out. Being made to walk behind his Mother's coffin, enduring a lifetime of rumours about his paternity, more rumours that somehow his own family were behind a plot to kill his Mother etc etc. And then he finally falls in love and finds someone willing to give up everything for him only for his family to turn their noses up at her because she's gasp an actress, and even worse, American and, God forbid, mixed race. And then on what was supposed to be the happiest day of his life, his wedding day, his own brother, step mother, sister in law and cousins are all caught sniggering during the service at the priest Meghan had wanted because his sermon was so......un-British. That had to have hurt both of them so much to see your own family laughing at your wedding ceremony.

So I applaud Harry for putting his mental health and the well being of his family before 'us' his supposed people who someone posted upthread he apparently didn't want anymore. What a load of old bollocks. He wants to do good, to help others in a meaningful way, not ride around in carriages and stand on balconies waving at the masses.
I don't think anybody here is blaming Harry for not wanting to be a full-time royal. Where some posters have taken issue with the Sussexes' actions is that (1) they seem to want to trade on their royal status without putting in the work ,(2) they're still going to live off money provided by the BRF and by taxpayers (and no, it's not great that Prince Andrew gets that money, either), and (3) the announcement was not done well and appears to be inconsiderate of his other family members, including the Queen who is elderly, and William who also endured childhood trauma but can't just step away. If you think their service to their country is limited to riding in carriages and waving from balconies, you're not paying attention.

The only reporting on the royal family's reaction to Harry becoming involved with Meghan is that William may have told him that he was moving too fast, and even that's not confirmed. There is no credible reporting that anyone in his family objected to her because she's an American, an actress, or biracial. Maybe they did, but that's an accusation that requires corroboration, IMO.

It seems like Harry and Meghan still want to live a fairly public life, just public in a different way. But he's Diana's son, and his life, unfortunately, will always be tabloid fodder. I hope that he's prioritizing his mental health by going to therapy and not just assuming that a move to a different country will fix everything.
 

floskate

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I don't think anybody here is blaming Harry for not wanting to be a full-time royal. Where some posters have taken issue with the Sussexes' actions is that (1) they seem to want to trade on their royal status without putting in the work ,(2) they're still going to live off money provided by the BRF and by taxpayers (and no, it's not great that Prince Andrew gets that money, either), and (3) the announcement was not done well and appears to be inconsiderate of his other family members, including the Queen who is elderly, and William who also endured childhood trauma but can't just step away. If you think their service to their country is limited to riding in carriages and waving from balconies, you're not paying attention.

The only reporting on the royal family's reaction to Harry becoming involved with Meghan is that William may have told him that he was moving too fast, and even that's not confirmed. There is no credible reporting that anyone in his family objected to her because she's an American, an actress, or biracial. Maybe they did, but that's an accusation that requires corroboration, IMO.

It seems like Harry and Meghan still want to live a fairly public life, just public in a different way. But he's Diana's son, and his life, unfortunately, will always be tabloid fodder. I hope that he's prioritizing his mental health by going to therapy and not just assuming that a move to a different country will fix everything.
1. Seem to want.....I guess that's going to need corroboration as well.
2. All news thus far indicates that any financial arrangements have yet to be even discussed.
3. Allegedly, Harry asked for a meeting with the Queen which she agreed to and the courtiers then cancelled. I say allegedly because there is no proof, just as you have none either. Tom Bradby is a journalist, not proof. Him giving his opinions, whether friends with them or not, is not proof. But if you think Tom is a reliable source then you might also want to consider that it is Tom's opinion that they would be happy to give up their titles which rather contradicts some of the statements made elsewhere.

While it was inconsiderate it was likely the only way they felt they could circumvent the Palace machine. As a British tax payer I am well aware thank you very much that royal duties are not confined to waving and carriage riding, however these are some of the more publically appeasing duties which also contribute towards republican sentiment because often that is pretty much all that is seen of the royal family on TV.

If Phillip told Harry that actresses were for dating not marrying as has been widely reported and may well have provided the catalyst for this entire family breakdown, then I'm willing to bet my life that there are other members of that family who feel the same way. The reason we still have a monarchy at all is because prejudice and class distinction are alive and well in this country. Emma, Viscountess Weymouth who is the first woman of colour to marry into the aristocracy has openly talked about the hostility she has faced in these circles purely because of her background and skin colour. We'll never be able to corroborate it but anyone with an open mind and half a braincell who understands how society is structured in this country should be able to admit that inherent racism, bigotry and prejudice are alive and well right up to the very top of the tree, however covert or unintentional that may be. That's why we now have a situation whereby the press are still refusing to admit that terms such as 'straight out of Compton' and 'exotic blood' are racist. Because the establishment enables it.

The big disappointment is the completely over the top reaction to this decision compared to the fallout over Prince Andrew. Meghan and Harry want to quit - cue absolute hysteria. Prince Andrew gives car crash interview which basically damns him for life as a suspected peodophile and friend to a convicted sex trafficker - cue tumbleweeds in comparison for something much more serious, much more damaging and certainly way more hurtful to the Queen. So if we're going to pull that card a la the orange one - then we need to look to Andrew for the majority of the blame, not two very unhappy people who are mentally unwell who feel they need a new way forward in life in order to have a chance at happiness as a couple.
 

becca

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1. Seem to want.....I guess that's going to need corroboration as well.
2. All news thus far indicates that any financial arrangements have yet to be even discussed.
3. Allegedly, Harry asked for a meeting with the Queen which she agreed to and the courtiers then cancelled. I say allegedly because there is no proof, just as you have none either. Tom Bradby is a journalist, not proof. Him giving his opinions, whether friends with them or not, is not proof. But if you think Tom is a reliable source then you might also want to consider that it is Tom's opinion that they would be happy to give up their titles which rather contradicts some of the statements made elsewhere.

While it was inconsiderate it was likely the only way they felt they could circumvent the Palace machine. As a British tax payer I am well aware thank you very much that royal duties are not confined to waving and carriage riding, however these are some of the more publically appeasing duties which also contribute towards republican sentiment because often that is pretty much all that is seen of the royal family on TV.

If Phillip told Harry that actresses were for dating not marrying as has been widely reported and may well have provided the catalyst for this entire family breakdown, then I'm willing to bet my life that there are other members of that family who feel the same way. The reason we still have a monarchy at all is because prejudice and class distinction are alive and well in this country. Emma, Viscountess Weymouth who is the first woman of colour to marry into the aristocracy has openly talked about the hostility she has faced in these circles purely because of her background and skin colour. We'll never be able to corroborate it but anyone with an open mind and half a braincell who understands how society is structured in this country should be able to admit that inherent racism, bigotry and prejudice are alive and well right up to the very top of the tree, however covert or unintentional that may be. That's why we now have a situation whereby the press are still refusing to admit that terms such as 'straight out of Compton' and 'exotic blood' are racist. Because the establishment enables it.

The big disappointment is the completely over the top reaction to this decision compared to the fallout over Prince Andrew. Meghan and Harry want to quit - cue absolute hysteria. Prince Andrew gives car crash interview which basically damns him for life as a suspected peodophile and friend to a convicted sex trafficker - cue tumbleweeds in comparison for something much more serious, much more damaging and certainly way more hurtful to the Queen. So if we're going to pull that card a la the orange one - then we need to look to Andrew for the majority of the blame, not two very unhappy people who are mentally unwell who feel they need a new way forward in life in order to have a chance at happiness as a couple.
1. They trademarked Sussex Royal.

2. Reports signed deal with Disney amongst others and there is even video evidence of Harry lobbying for a job with the head of Disney for Meghan on an official engagement.
3. They published on their website their plans to be funded by the Duchy and have the tax payer still pay for security.

For the record Harry should be allowed to leave do whatever he wants but the funding should Change.
 

Zemgirl

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@floskate - I explained how people appear to be interpreting Harry and Meghan's actions, based on H&M's own statements and website. You presented conjecture and rumors, and I think if one expects the Sussexes to be treated fairly, one should be equally fair in not giving credence to every story out there about other members of the BRF.
 

mella

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About taxation: the US is one of a handful of countries that requires citizens and resident aliens to file pay taxes on worldwide income regardless of where they live. Most countries only require that you pay taxes on worldwide income if you are resident. (Most countries require that you pay taxes only on income sourced in that country, if you live outside of it.) And you don't have to live in a country for six or more months to be consider resident: there are all sorts of ways countries will make the argument that you live there.

There are many tax treaties that eliminate double taxation and determine who gets the primary payment for different kinds of income. Of course, different countries have different rules about exemptions and deductions, so what and how much is taxable differs. Typically, if you are US citizen living elsewhere or you are considered to be resident by more than one country, you create a tax return on worldwide income for each country, and then you get a tax credit for what you paid to the other country. Then you pay the difference, if any.
Thank you.
 

Zemgirl

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The big disappointment is the completely over the top reaction to this decision compared to the fallout over Prince Andrew. Meghan and Harry want to quit - cue absolute hysteria. Prince Andrew gives car crash interview which basically damns him for life as a suspected peodophile and friend to a convicted sex trafficker - cue tumbleweeds in comparison for something much more serious, much more damaging and certainly way more hurtful to the Queen. So if we're going to pull that card a la the orange one - then we need to look to Andrew for the majority of the blame, not two very unhappy people who are mentally unwell who feel they need a new way forward in life in order to have a chance at happiness as a couple.
I just noticed this. The reaction to Andrew's interview was extremely negative, both from the press and on social media. He was essentially fired by his family. Whatever public role he had is finished. Should the repercussions for what he is alleged to have done be more severe? Absolutely. But it is simply not true that the reaction to that horrible interview was tumbleweeds. Not to mention that Beatrice had to endure speculation that she was getting married and Eugenie that she would probably have a baby as a distraction from his wrongdoing. I'm sure we all agree that neither of the York girls is remotely responsible for their father's behavior.

There's a lot of disgusting coverage and social media chatter surrounding the BRF, and other than Andrew, none of them deserve it. I hope that the rest of them can find a way to live a meaningful life and a happy one.
 

canbelto

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I mentioned this earlier, but Andrew coverage in the press (even by the most trusted royal reporters) has been very consistently negative. These are the same reporters who usually fawn over the queen. But they've covered how the queen has spoiled and indulged Andrew and enabled his poor choices for years. It's just that with the BBC interview Andrew decided to blow up whatever shreds of goodwill he had left.

Also response to Andrew from the BRF was swift. Within days of the BBC interview he was fired. It's very different from this situation where royal reporters have talked about a difficult family rift and a complicated situation. I am not talking about the tabloids, the racist social media trolls/youtube personalities, or right-wing news sites such as the Daily Caller, etc.

So I think @mag is right. Trusted news sources have treated the Harry/Meghan situation for what it is -- a thorny family drama where there's no villains and heroes, just complicated people. Tabloids have been racist and trashy. And social media trolls have been racist and trashy.
 

Zemgirl

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So I think @mag is right. Trusted news sources have treated the Harry/Meghan situation for what it is -- a thorny family drama where there's no villains and heroes, just complicated people. Tabloids have been racist and trashy. And social media trolls have been racist and trashy.
Exactly. And at the opposite end of the social media spectrum, there's also a lot of support for the Sussexes, most of which is a good thing (a small fraction is the nastier stans, who should be ignored).
 

taf2002

Fluff up your tutu & dance away.....
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The fact that they set up the website as SussexRoyal is not some horrible "trading on their connections". They ARE the Sussex's, no one else is. And Harry IS a prince, no matter what he does in future will not change that fact. So if they are able to get support for their charities by using their names, so what? (Paul Newman charities is a huge entity - he got that support by using his name. Danny Thomas got support for St Jude's by using his name. There's nothing shameful in that.) As a royal he needs protection because of who he is. If they entirely retire from public live that could change within a couple of years but I doubt it. But I guess if he doesn't knuckle under & lives his life how his family wants he won't receive the support that was ear-marked for him.

I have always had the opinion that William and/or the family said a lot more than "you're moving too fast" to cause such a rift. If that was all William said it would be a non-issue by now. DH's sister told him not to marry me because I was older than him & she was dead serious. That didn't cause either of us to want to cut her out of our lives.

BTW the Disney deal is for voice work. /oh horrors!
 
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