The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[aftershocks]

If Bobrova & Soloviev, Hubbell & Donohue, Guignard & Fabbri, Cappellini & Lanotte, the Shibs, Chock & Bates, Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Papadakis & Cizeron, Virtue & Moir, Stepanova & Bukin, Weaver & Poje, Hawayek & Baker, Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen, Coomes & Buckland, and Gilles & Poirier had thought this way, we would have had none of them at this year's Worlds or at the Olympics. You'd darn well better be prepared to stay and fight after a loss in ice dance today.

^^ Oh yep. The skaters know the score. IOW, they know the scoring and the politics is out of their control. The best champions understand the necessity of being motivated to reach their own highest potential, and not sweat overmuch the judging, the politics, and their competition.

In fact, I think for the most part, skaters respect each other tremendously. And they understand that the current depth of talent means winning is never in the bag. Even P/C know this. If P/C were not motivated by pushing the boundaries of their own creative imaginations, and improving all aspects of their own skating, they would not be as great as they are, nor would they have been able to weather and overcome the challenges of V/M coming back to the arena. V/M coming back, made P/C better. And V/M pushed the boundaries of their talent and former success to achieve even more amazing heights because of P/C's magical chops.

 

[Scrufflet]

So will Weav/Po skip the GP again? Probably not, if they are aiming to go for a medal at Montreal Worlds. I love how Weav/Po have grown and how much they have shone through believing in themselves, in each other, and in the coaching team they have put together. Will the Shibs ultimately decide to return to the ice dance competitive fray and judging mash-ups? If so, when?

Unfortunately, the Russian push to get one or both top Russian dance teams on as many podiums as possible this quad, is and will continue to be the gnarly factor in the judging. Russia seeks to up-end North American ice dance dominance by any means necessary.

Of course, the trip-up factor is and will be Romain's visionary realization of the magical benefits of Euro-NA synergy. Call him 'Haggie' if you will. His Haggie-ness is joined at the 'Hip' with the Queen & King of Gadbois! Call them Haggie et M-F Dubreuil et Patch Lauzon Success Factor. Together, these Three Musketeers of Montreal have wrought magic and sweet-spot dominance, not only because they have extraordinary P/C and other exemplary athletes and artists to work magic with. Their success is NOT derived from winning at all costs! Their success is derived from their mantra and guiding force of orchestrating a disciplined approach to melding limitless passion with expansive creativity in forging champion ice dancers.

I love this! I plan to memorize and quote your 3rd paragraph to all who will listen!

 

[aftershocks]

I love this! I plan to memorize and quote your 3rd paragraph to all who will listen!

I was cued into this Gadbois mantra from something Zach Donohue said about Patch and Marie-France not starting the school because they were interested in winning. For them, their guiding force was about their passion for ice dance, first and foremost. Obviously, there are always other sides to every story. And there are downsides to overcome, and pitfalls of daily monotonous routines and human failing drawbacks, added to the off-putting politics. I'm sure that's where Patch's organizational skills and Gadbois' overall disciplined approach comes in and makes an important difference for all involved.

The key thing to remember I think, is that magic does not come from vigorously waving a wand. It comes inexplicably and unabashedly from focusing on desire and personal intention. Passion and creativity are P/C's intention and Romain's & M/F's & Patch's intention. The rest is history, beyond all our lowly, gnarly or high-minded expectations.

 

[illyria]

Weapo most likely won’t skip the GP series because the Skate Canada national team criteria says you must be assigned to a 2019 Grand Prix event.

The criteria is here:
https://twitter.com/canadianfsf/status/1095925785163116554

 

[Scrufflet]

I was cued into this Gadbois mantra from something Zach Donohue said about Patch and Marie-France not starting the school because they were interested in winning. For them, their guiding force was about their passion for ice dance, first and foremost. Obviously, there are always other sides to every story. And there are downsides to overcome, and pitfalls of daily monotonous routines and human failing drawbacks, added to the off-putting politics. I'm sure that's where Patch's organizational skills and Gadbois' overall disciplined approach comes in and makes an important difference for all involved.

The key thing to remember I think, is that magic does not come from vigorously waving a wand. It comes inexplicably and unabashedly from focusing on desire and personal intention. Passion and creativity are P/C's intention and Romain's & M/F's & Patch's intention. The rest is history, beyond all our lowly, gnarly or high-minded expectations.

A slight tangent here re M-F. I don't know if you ever saw Battle of the Blades when she competed but she was with a hockey player who was a burly tattooed enforcer type and she was determined to transform him into a sexy romantic lead. Watching her work with him was unbelievable. He was completely mesmerized! Actually, so was I!

 

[manhn]

I know a lot of people (myself included) ignore the Team event, but an Olympic medal is an Olympic medal. Weaver and Poje can potentially get one. The U.S. and Russia should be the favourites for the top 2, but Canada, China and France would fight for bronze. Someone like James and Cipres may take that into account when deciding their future too.

 

[VGThuy]

I know a lot of people (myself included) ignore the Team event, but an Olympic medal is an Olympic medal. Weaver and Poje can potentially get one. The U.S. and Russia should be the favourites for the top 2, but Canada, China and France would fight for bronze. Someone like James and Cipres may take that into account when deciding their future too.

Very good point. Patrick Chan seems more than happy with his Team Olympic gold medal.

 

[aftershocks]

I know a lot of people (myself included) ignore the Team event, but an Olympic medal is an Olympic medal. Weaver and Poje can potentially get one. The U.S. and Russia should be the favourites for the top 2, but Canada, China and France would fight for bronze. Someone like James and Cipres may take that into account when deciding their future too.

Sure, but Italy is also in the mix with top-notch ice dance, men and pairs competitors. If a younger and healthier Carolina was also a factor, Italy would be even stronger. But alas, I doubt we shall see Carolina competing in Beijing.

If J/C continue competing in pairs for the entire quad, that would certainly help France, with P/C at the top in ice dance and Kevin Aymoz, Romain Ponsart in men's singles. Mae Berenice Meite and Laurine Lecavelier aren't quite as strong French competitors in ladies' singles, but at least France has talented ladies contenders, whereas Italy and China don't at this point.

I'm all the more disappointed again that Aymoz did not land in the top ten so Ponsart could be additionally motivated by the prospect of attending Worlds next year. I hope Ponsart and Aymoz continue to blossom.

China has top-notch pairs mostly, and one strong male contender in singles. I know Ch-Fed are trying to groom some promising ladies contenders, and their ice dancers are definitely making some waves and improving. Meanwhile, Canada is rebuilding/ trying to maintain top contenders in pairs, men, and ice dance, while at the same time, losing a lot of ground in ladies singles.

 

[Dobre]

If W/P had retired this season and FB/S not transferred to Canada, I think there could have been a serious risk of a loss of spots if it had been up to Soucisse/Firus to hold down the top two placements to add up to no less than 13.

Canada would have lost the 3rd spot even with Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen. 6th & 9th does not make 13. I know some people think Gilles & Poirier would get a bump if they were ranked #1, and who is to say they wouldn't? (Especially next year at home). One can't read the future, and teams will keep developing as well as develop new programs next season. But G&P's marks here were not much in the hunt. Plus, they bested Guignard & Fabbri only in the free, and that was with G&F mucking up the exit of a lift. G&F lost over 2 points on that mistake alone. G&P could easily have finished below them as well. Though G&P mucked up their twizzles so hitting those could have gained some points back there. Regardless, without W&P, the third spot would have been gone. F-B&S have a very close point total to Hawayek & Baker so catching them seems possible (provided H&B remain USA's #3); but F-B&S are currently nowhere near G&F's scoring capacity from this season. And Russia will have a third team to contend with next season so the battle for spots 9 & 10 is not getting easier.

 

[illyria]

https://youtu.be/-MKtdS7XrQs
Video of Hawayek/Baker’s FD is on YouTube now and it’s very interesting seeing the choreographic knee slide.
I really am confused as to how this wasn’t counted as a fall for Jean Luc and possibly invalidated the choreographic element (for example at the Olympics when Zach fell on the choreographic twizzling movement, it invalidated H/D’s choreographic twizzling movement and they received no base value or GOE for it + received one point fall deduction). The GOE range from the judges for this was +1 to +5. Also I believe there was debate from the tech panel about this because you can see in the TES box the TES changing from 61 to 55 and back to 61. They ultimately ended up with 62 TES, +2.13 GOE, and no fall deduction.

This is how the choreographic element looked all season to compare to Worlds, which I do believe was a mistake and not intentional.

This is 4CC which is latest competition before Worlds and if you look at Nationals, GPF, NHK, IDF, it is all the same

https://youtu.be/yduA7KdjbQs

 

[Dobre]

I really am confused as to how this wasn’t counted as a fall for Jean Luc and possibly invalidated the choreographic element (for example at the Olympics when Zach fell on the choreographic twizzling movement, it invalidated H/D’s choreographic twizzling movement and they received no base value or GOE for it + received one point fall deduction). The GOE range from the judges for this was +1 to +5. Also I believe there was debate from the tech panel about this because you can see in the TES box the TES changing from 61 to 55 and back to 61. They ultimately ended up with 62 TES, +2.13 GOE, and no fall deduction.

This one element right here pretty much encapsulated everything that was wrong with the scoring/judging for me all season.

 

[yurokis40]

This one element right here pretty much encapsulated everything that was wrong with the scoring/judging for me all season.

the Danadians will overtake them next year they are the better team flat out. They beat them in the fd but should have won overall.

 

[Lara111]

Does a team need to win world medals to have justification to want to continue competing?

If that was the case, you could make an argument that only 4 or so teams should even bother to show up.

WP certainly did Canadian ice dance a favour by helping secure the 3 spots for the home Worlds. I know people are impatient for teams like Lajoie/Lagha to move up, but they can’t get that opportunity unless there are 3 spots.

I would rather watch W/P than L/L for the next few years

 

[thvu]

https://youtu.be/-MKtdS7XrQs
Video of Hawayek/Baker’s FD is on YouTube now and it’s very interesting seeing the choreographic knee slide.
I really am confused as to how this wasn’t counted as a fall for Jean Luc and possibly invalidated the choreographic element (for example at the Olympics when Zach fell on the choreographic twizzling movement, it invalidated H/D’s choreographic twizzling movement and they received no base value or GOE for it + received one point fall deduction). The GOE range from the judges for this was +1 to +5. Also I believe there was debate from the tech panel about this because you can see in the TES box the TES changing from 61 to 55 and back to 61. They ultimately ended up with 62 TES, +2.13 GOE, and no fall deduction.

Here's the definition of a fall, and a choreographic sliding movement.

A Fall is defined as loss of control by a skater with the result that the majority of his/her own body weight is on the ice supported by any other part of the body other than the blades e.g. hand(s), knee(s), buttock(s), or any part of the arm (Rule 503, para 1).​

• Choreographic Sliding Movement: performed anywhere in the program, during which both partners perform controlled sliding movements on the ice. The following requirements apply:​

- Continuous controlled sliding movement by both partners at the same time on any part of the body - May be in hold or not touching, may also rotate.​

- Controlled sliding on 2 knees or any part of the body will not be considered as a Fall/Illegal Element by the Technical Panel during this element.​

- Sliding Movement cannot finish as a stop on 2 knees or sitting/lying on the ice, otherwise it will be identified as a Fall/Illegal Element and shall be called accordingly.​

So, it's clear that when designing the choreographic sliding movement, the technical committee exempted it from the typical rules governing falls. Weight can be distributed anywhere, as long as it is "Controlled." I think that's the issue, whether or not the sliding Jean-Luc was doing was controlled, and what it means to be controlled.

A caller has to be sure about the call. The benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the skaters, so if there is serious doubt as to whether or not what Jean-Luc did was "controlled," it shouldn't be called as a fall. If I had no exposure to their Free Dance, I would not have seen their choreographic sliding movement as not "controlled." Not well performed, sure, but not out of control in any way. Of course, others will see it differently, as what it means to be "controlled" is not really defined.

 

[Dobre]

Not well performed, sure, but not out of control in any way. Of course, others will see it differently, as what it means to be "controlled" is not really defined.

The French, German, & Israeli judges saw it differently, all right. Two +4s and the only +5 Hawayek & Baker got during the entire competition. Also the only GOE mark over +3 that the Israeli judge gave them.

*Yours truly trying very hard not to rant and failing woefully.*

 

[illyria]

Here's the definition of a fall, and a choreographic sliding movement.

A Fall is defined as loss of control by a skater with the result that the majority of his/her own body weight is on the ice supported by any other part of the body other than the blades e.g. hand(s), knee(s), buttock(s), or any part of the arm (Rule 503, para 1).​

• Choreographic Sliding Movement: performed anywhere in the program, during which both partners perform controlled sliding movements on the ice. The following requirements apply:​

- Continuous controlled sliding movement by both partners at the same time on any part of the body - May be in hold or not touching, may also rotate.​

- Controlled sliding on 2 knees or any part of the body will not be considered as a Fall/Illegal Element by the Technical Panel during this element.​

- Sliding Movement cannot finish as a stop on 2 knees or sitting/lying on the ice, otherwise it will be identified as a Fall/Illegal Element and shall be called accordingly.​

So, it's clear that when designing the choreographic sliding movement, the technical committee exempted it from the typical rules governing falls. Weight can be distributed anywhere, as long as it is "Controlled." I think that's the issue, whether or not the sliding Jean-Luc was doing was controlled, and what it means to be controlled.

A caller has to be sure about the call. The benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the skaters, so if there is serious doubt as to whether or not what Jean-Luc did was "controlled," it shouldn't be called as a fall. If I had no exposure to their Free Dance, I would not have seen their choreographic sliding movement as not "controlled." Not well performed, sure, but not out of control in any way. Of course, others will see it differently, as what it means to be "controlled" is not really defined.

I see what Jean-Luc did as uncontrolled and a "stop on 2 knees"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2kpnioUcAAI-sw.jpg

Also I think the panel has seen this free dance all season and also in practices, so they should know that the exit is different and this was a mistake. And to be quite honest, even if this was the first time any of the judges saw this, the exit was quite awkward and imo again lacked control so the judges who gave +4 or 5 are very excessive.

But I suppose there was a bit of debate by the tech panel on whether it was controlled or not with the TES changing from 62 to 55 to 61 and finally to 62 and it ended up in favor of the skater.

 

[illyria]

I did think this mini sequence in their midline was a highlight. But the final third of their midline I prefer the previous version, which I thought accentuated the music's phrasing better. I also preferred the 3rd set twizzles at IdF, with the torque of upper body and outstretched free leg. I do think S/B's twizzles are often quite daring and didn't understand why they weren't getting bigger GOEs on them prior to this season. American commentators love to gush about Shibs' twizzles but I remain lukewarm, mostly because of their muddled upper body positions, esp. Alex's.

I don't think the love for Shibs' twizzles is an American commentators' thing, but something very universal. They have done some extremely difficult and well executed twizzles over the years. My personal favorites are:

https://youtu.be/28mF0RS6SsU?t=15

2014 Ondrej Nepela FD Crossing Pattern, Vertical Axis
Maia:
LFI 6 Rotations Clockwise, holding the blade or boot of the free foot
RBO 6 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
RFO 4 Rotations Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles
LBO 2 Rotations Clockwise, arms above the head

Alex:
RFI 6 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, holding the blade or boot of the free foot
LBO 6 Rotations Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
LFO 4 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles
RBO 2 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, arms above the head

If you do 2 sets, only 8 rotations are required for level 4 (4 rotations in each set). If you do 3 sets, only 11 rotations are required for level 4 (4 rotations in 1st & 2nd set, 3 rotations in 3rd set). Shibs do 4 sets of twizzles and 18 rotations in total here.

https://youtu.be/28mF0RS6SsU?t=87

2015-2016 "Fix You" Twizzles that match the change in tempo for the FD perfectly

RFI 5 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, free leg held out at 45 degrees or more from vertical, significant continuous motion of the arms
LBO 6 Rotations Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
LFO 4 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles
RBO 2 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, arms above the head

https://youtu.be/28mF0RS6SsU?t=156

2017-2018 Latin SD Twizzles
RFI 7 Rotations Counter-Clockwise with free leg held out at 45 degrees or more from vertical, 8th rotation used as exit from first set to match “ocho” in music
LBO 6 Rotations Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
LFO 3 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles

You only have to maintain a group A or B level feature for 4 rotations for level 4. In the Shibs 2017-2018 SD, they maintain their free leg held out at 45 degrees or more from vertical feature for 7 rotations in the first set and do an 8th rotation as an exit to match the music going “uno, dos, tres, cuatro, cinco, seis, siete, ocho.”

 

[Cayuse]

@VIETgrlTerifa will certainly uber you!! Love all aspects of the Shibs too.

 

[allezfred]

Even so, I think that the PCS scores should have been much higher than the French team.... Madi and Zach skated that program brilliantly!

Their PCS scores were much higher than Lauriault and Le Gac.

Call him 'Haggie' if you will.

I will not.

 

[IloveFS]

Their PCS scores were much higher than Lauriault and Le Gac.



I will not.

No, I mean that I thought they were better than Papadakis and Cizeron.

 

[sharsk8s]

No, I mean that I thought they were better than Papadakis and Cizeron.

Umm...alright. I don't even know what to say to someone who though r&j was good.

 

[Scrufflet]

I came away from this worlds with very mixed feelings, dissatisfied as if something was unresolved. Pap/Ciz were in a league of their own and I found myself enjoying them for the first time in a while. Maybe I expected someone from the next 6 to emerge from the pack as superior and it just didn't happen. Hub/Don should have but their program held them back (although they performed it valiantly); I hope next year's plays to their strengths. I have not yet had a chance to see complete offerings of the Russian teams. . Wea/Po were undervalued as were Cho/Ba. I am most incensed by the underappreciation of Gil/Poir who really had the dance of the season. I do know that I am really tired of lyrical and overwrought passion, both of which often get chosen. Ah well, on to next season. Hope springs eternal!

 

[Dobre]

Totally not to pick on Scrufflet but in response to a greater trend that I have seen/heard throughout this season . . .

I am tired of the use of the term, "overwrought."

You can have dramatic. You can have sexy. You can have hard-edged. You can have pizzazz. You can have quirky. You can have fun. And on and on.

"Overwrought" is not a style, and there is no need to slam everything that is not soft & flowy with negative connotations by using terms like "overwrought," "disingenuous," or "over-the-top."

Sometimes "over-the-top" is even exactly the right style for a piece of music. It certainly worked for Ushakova & Nekrasov's Be Italian. It worked for Gilles & Poirier's disco program. It worked for Manta & Johnson's FD this year. I can't image "sincerity," working the same way with these particular selections of style & music.

Anyway, my two cents. I really want to encourage the teams that are venturing beyond the lyrical trend and I would hate to see that growing sense of variety stifled by casual negative commentary.

(Notice how I attempted to use examples for clarity, while avoiding naming loads of stars with much more famous programs that have worked for many members of audiences and the judges at every level of competition--in the hope of making this point without instigating an "overwrought" disagreement).

 

[IloveFS]

I came away from this worlds with very mixed feelings, dissatisfied as if something was unresolved. Pap/Ciz were in a league of their own and I found myself enjoying them for the first time in a while. Maybe I expected someone from the next 6 to emerge from the pack as superior and it just didn't happen. Hub/Don should have but their program held them back (although they performed it valiantly); I hope next year's plays to their strengths. I have not yet had a chance to see complete offerings of the Russian teams. . Wea/Po were undervalued as were Cho/Ba. I am most incensed by the underappreciation of Gil/Poir who really had the dance of the season. I do know that I am really tired of lyrical and overwrought passion, both of which often get chosen. Ah well, on to next season. Hope springs eternal!

I don't enjoy Papadakis and Cizeron... I just think it's the same program year after year to different music.. I don't think that they are in a league of their own. Even their exhibition program was to their RD music from last year.... BORING!!!!

 

[Dobre]

Crossposting from the thread in Great Skate Debate:

Fort Myers-Naples TV news report about Marina Zoueva's academy ("20 skaters from 5 different countries..."): Former Olympic skaters bring ice dance academy to SWFL, gear up for performance Sunday
Ilya Tkachenko is also interviewed on camera.

Tkachenko looks happy. I just love how international ice dance is right now and the paths we see these athletes take. I mean a decade ago, what were the odds of seeing a trio like Zoueva, Tkachenko, and Ucar all coaching together in Florida? Cathy Reed now coaching in Japan. Margaglio in Finland. Popova & Krylova now working together. Galit Chait working with so many Israeli athletes. A new Israeli dance team in Ichilov & Davidovich. Barbara gathering forces in Europe. Shae-Lynn becoming a much sought-after choreographer in the singles world. Tchernyshev choreographing some of the top names in Russia. It's just a lot of fun seeing the ebb & flow and the way all these paths intersect.

 

[laviemn]

I really want to encourage the teams that are venturing beyond the lyrical trend and I would hate to see that growing sense of variety stifled by casual negative commentary.

If skaters are looking at casual commentary, they would see that Fear/Gibson's programs have gotten positive buzz far above their paygrade this season. And that a lot of people seem to prefer Fournier-Beaudry/Sorenson's FD to Hawayek/Baker, and Stepanova/Bukin to Sinitsina/Katsalapov, and Chock/Bates to Hubbell/Donahue (though I no longer considered their FD predominantly lyrical after their music changes). And they can see and hear the audience reactions for themselves.

I think, looking at the 20 FDs at Worlds, the lyrical trend has already trended down. With the caveat I've seen a lot of disagreement about what emcompasses lyrical. I've seen fans resist the label for Gilles/Poirier's FD while broadly writing off Gadbois' output, which includes disco and Elvis and flamenco and Bruno Mars, as lyrical.

 

[Colonel Green]

If skaters are looking at casual commentary, they would see that Fear/Gibson's programs have gotten positive buzz far above their paygrade this season.

I doubt that’s escaped notice.

I’m expecting to see a lot of similar stabs at “fun” programs next season from lower-ranked teams, possibly also with some sort of retro dance theme.

 

[yurokis40]

I don't enjoy Papadakis and Cizeron... I just think it's the same program year after year to different music.. I don't think that they are in a league of their own. Even their exhibition program was to their RD music from last year.... BORING!!!!

I agree the Russians are starting to make a move on them , S&K will continue to improve I think they will close the gap by Olympics already getting 57+ in pcs Olympics is in three years still a long time, S&B will continue to improve as well anyway I am most excited by Lajoie and Lagha's senior debut their speed and technique is amazing still need to work on expression and Lajoie's edges but they are coming along great.

 

[Bigbird]

I came away from this worlds with very mixed feelings, dissatisfied as if something was unresolved. Pap/Ciz were in a league of their own and I found myself enjoying them for the first time in a while. Maybe I expected someone from the next 6 to emerge from the pack as superior and it just didn't happen. Hub/Don should have but their program held them back (although they performed it valiantly); I hope next year's plays to their strengths. I have not yet had a chance to see complete offerings of the Russian teams. . Wea/Po were undervalued as were Cho/Ba. I am most incensed by the underappreciation of Gil/Poir who really had the dance of the season. I do know that I am really tired of lyrical and overwrought passion, both of which often get chosen. Ah well, on to next season. Hope springs eternal!

Agree with you here. They have grown a lot and I hope the continue to.

 

[Scrufflet]

Totally not to pick on Scrufflet but in response to a greater trend that I have seen/heard throughout this season . . .

I am tired of the use of the term, "overwrought."

You can have dramatic. You can have sexy. You can have hard-edged. You can have pizzazz. You can have quirky. You can have fun. And on and on.

"Overwrought" is not a style, and there is no need to slam everything that is not soft & flowy with negative connotations by using terms like "overwrought," "disingenuous," or "over-the-top."

Sometimes "over-the-top" is even exactly the right style for a piece of music. It certainly worked for Ushakova & Nekrasov's Be Italian. It worked for Gilles & Poirier's disco program. It worked for Manta & Johnson's FD this year. I can't image "sincerity," working the same way with these particular selections of style & music.

Anyway, my two cents. I really want to encourage the teams that are venturing beyond the lyrical trend and I would hate to see that growing sense of variety stifled by casual negative commentary.

(Notice how I attempted to use examples for clarity, while avoiding naming loads of stars with much more famous programs that have worked for many members of audiences and the judges at every level of competition--in the hope of making this point without instigating an "overwrought" disagreement).

Well put and your points are respected. I will try to find another term which conveys what I mean.