The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Miloune]

If someone is interested by Nathalie Péchalat's opinion on the FDs (and Alban Préaubert agrees) :
She loved :
P/C
S/B (when their score appeared she said Bukin shouldn't smile like this but be annoyed to be behind H/D. And said that Stepanova's face showed she knew they were robbed )
G/P
C/B

Didn't love that much :
S/K
H/D
W/P

The thing is that she seems to judge the top teams based on the creativity of the theme, moves and lifts. Almost 0 comment on the technique, apart from "it was well executed". So when I see that others think S/B are weaker than S/K for example, it makes me question what she sees... or maybe she just concentrates on her level of entertainement??

 

[MarieM]

I think that Hubbell/Donohue skated the best free dance at Worlds!!!! They should have won the free dance.

I love them, but no. They should have had at least one deduction on the stali and on the step seq.

 

[IloveFS]

I love them, but no. They should have had at least one deduction on the stali and on the step seq.

Even so, I think that the PCS scores should have been much higher than the French team.... Madi and Zach skated that program brilliantly!

 

[yurokis40]

I noticed they had a bobble (I think gabi right after the bracket before the twizzle) which might have lowered their GOE

Even so, I think that the PCS scores should have been much higher than the French team.... Madi and Zach skated that program brilliantly!

it was a bad program that was changed a million times.

 

[vireo]

I went back to look, and I think we are both wrong. TSS is total score, correct?

They had a 2, a 3, three 4ths, a 5, a 7, an 8, and a 9. (The 3 thirds and the one 10th are from the TES tally rather than the total).

Yes. I think you're right. Skatingscores tracks TES, PCS, and TSS. It's easy to get confused.

It's a great site. So grateful to the person who runs it. It's wonderful to get such a detailed breakdown of the scoring.

 

[IloveFS]

it was a bad program that was changed a million times.

It wasn't my favourite free dance this season; however, I think it was very well skated and should have won the event!

 

[Dobre]

I will so not miss R&J.4million or 1992.remix or whatever-that-thing-is-I-keep-sleeping-through.P&C.

Bring on the mid-quadrennium programs! I found them much better in 2016 than 2015. I have hope for the same in 2020 vs. 2019.

 

[bcash]

Even so, I think that the PCS scores should have been much higher than the French team.... Madi and Zach skated that program brilliantly!

I'm a H/D fan but their program this season, after all the tinkering, still is a bit of mess. Jumbled and overwrought.

 

[yurokis40]

It wasn't my favourite free dance this season; however, I think it was very well skated and should have won the event!

absolutely not they are lucky they have a supreme coaching team that was able to salvage it, they better come up with something good next year the judges won't be so lenient.
PS: Weaver and Poje need to retire, the future of Canadian ice dance lies with the Gadbois trained team FB&S and Lajoie and Lagha worlds will be in their home town next year, for Lajoie and Lagha and Laurence Fournier I want to see them there with Gilles and Poirier.

 

[Debbie S]

PS: Weaver and Poje need to retire, the future of Canadian ice dance lies with the Gadbois trained team FB&S and Lajoie and Lagha worlds will be in their home town next year, for Lajoie and Lagha and Laurence Fournier I want to see them there with Gilles and Poirier.

I suspect L/L's Worlds debut will have to wait at least one more season. W/P may retire after Montreal (I think there's probably s likely chance) but not before. I assume competing at a home country Worlds is the reason they continued into the new quad. They are CAN #1 and the Worlds results showed that they still have some political push - I thought they should have been below C/B, and behind G/P in the FD. Will be interesting to see if they are set up for a medal next year, I'm sure the Canadian fed will be poltiking, since they are the only real shot at a medal, unless Daleman gets a 3A or a quad.

 

[illyria]

Could you share the link, please, if it’s possible?
I usually love listening to them and also Tanith, but with current YouTube policy it’s almost impossible to find those videos.

I watched the entire event with TAT and while she is knowledgeable and sometimes notices really interesting details, she is too biased when it comes to the top teams and especially S/B.


That was an impression I got from them at the Russian test skates, Rostelecom and Euros. Without a doubt they are great performers, but there is a lot of “open” skating in their programs (like I/K used to have).

I/K skating was less open with Zhulin, but Morozov made their skating more open. I feel the same happened with Weapo. Under DSC they had more closed holds, while with Morozov their skating was more open.

S/B in the RD I feel since they use paso doble theme instead of tango, Zhuk choreographed very open program. I would have preferred a more tango program. Of the top teams I think S/B and G/P had the most open RDs and skated a bit far apart. RD with the most closed holds and transitions was S/K and they were choreographed by Argentine Tango world champion.

In the FD, I didn’t find Tchernyshev’s choreography for S/B juniorish or more open than a majority of teams. I found most teams FD very open as a consequence of the new rules, which emphasize choreographic elements. There are now 3 choreographic elements instead of 2. There used to be a style A step sequence of 9 difficult steps/turns including a one foot turn section with the 4 difficult one foot turns in combination (rocker, counter, bracket, double twizzle) and a style B step sequence with 5 difficult steps/turns. Both were full patterns. This season there is only one full pattern step sequence and it’s only style B, so only 5 difficult steps/turns. Then there is half a pattern for the one foot step sequence of 4 difficult one foot turns and vertical barrier to barrier for the choreographic character step sequence. I would say the most complex step sequence in terms of holds and changes of hold is H/K’s serpentine step sequence. After that the most conplex would be S/K’s serpentine step sequence and G/F’s circular step sequence. I have noticed that those who do serpentine or circular step sequence have more complex holds and are less open than those who do diagonal or midline step sequence. In general I would not say S/B has an easy, Junior ish program when they have very difficult entry to twizzle, unique and difficult choreographic spinning and twizzle movements, difficult rotational lift, and also while they the free dance is a bit open which is common for all free dances this season there are some interesting transitions like the mini lift in the diagonal step sequence.

I find it interesting that the most complex RD stsq is from S/K and the most complex FD stsq is from H/K and both teams are Zhulin teams and worked with off ice dancers. Dmitry Vasin, Argentine Tango World champion, choreographed S/K RD and Iker Karerra, Spanish dancer, choreographed H/K FD.

I find that Svinin/Zhuk team tends to have very unique elements and are a bit more acrobatic, but they skate a bit open and lack lots of closed holds.

I find that Gadbois teams emphasizes speed, flow, ice coverage, and a very lyrical, contemporary style, but also can be open and lack complex or closed holds.

 

[chameleonster]

Given how tight it is with the top dance teams currently, I'm not sure you should be agitating for W/P to leave considering how easily spots could have been lost this year, and could be similarily vulnerable next year, even witha home ice advantage.

 

[bcash]

I have yet to see the FD. Super busy. But IMO S and B were way over scored and didn’t deserve to be ahead of any of W and P, C and B, G and F or G and P. In the RD.

I actually do concede that S and K deserved the silver position.

But I think you could argue for H and D too.

I did like P and C, but I don’t think they deserved to be six points ahead. I’d say 2 to 3 max. I found their twizzles a bit slow. And their mid line. Their curve lift was beautiful but I still don’t think they have the best lifts in the field.

They certainly deserve to win, just IMO not by that large a margin.

P/C's midline did appear slower than previous iterations at Euros and IdF, I think because of how they changed the middle part to add more appearance of intricacy and tango flourish, presumably.

But I've always thought, since the 15-16 season, that they have the best twizzles in the world. First of all they look like they skate on buttered ice which gives their twizzles an airiness; they also end each set with ease and polish, taking their time to exit like a light exhale of breath. In the Beethoven program for example, watch how between the 2nd and 3rd set Gabi P used her whole body to "finish" the phrase of movement, from the legs through the shoulders, and down to the fingers as if clasping on the note in the music. In terms of the rotation, they manage to give the impression that they rotate along a very uplifted, stretched central axis, while also having their blades firmly into the ice. And their rotation speed is just about right to give a sense of excitement while making every rotation fully articulated. Unless you can do it as fast as D/W, speed itself is not enough to elevate twizzles.

 

[starrynight]

Given how tight it is with the top dance teams currently, I'm not sure you should be agitating for W/P to leave considering how easily spots could have been lost this year, and could be similarily vulnerable next year, even witha home ice advantage.

Yes people need to remember that you need two teams to do consistently well to keep three spots. And the top 10 in dance is just packed with teams who could all get on the podium. Just talk to the Spaniards about how hard that is to break into.

Rather than concentrate on what people imagine G/P could do if W/P got out of their way (and there was the Grand Prix Series for a tester of that anyway), they need to think about where Fournier Beaudrey/Sorensen can rank -- (and be glad that they changed to Canada this season). Because the key to spots is getting that second team to score high enough.

If W/P had retired this season and FB/S not transferred to Canada, I think there could have been a serious risk of a loss of spots if it had been up to Soucisse/Firus to hold down the top two placements to add up to no less than 13.

 

[bcash]

In the FD, I didn’t find Tchernyshev’s choreography for S/B juniorish or more open than a majority of teams. I found most teams FD very open as a consequence of the new rules, which emphasize choreographic elements. There are now 3 choreographic elements instead of 2. There used to be a style A step sequence of 9 difficult steps/turns including a one foot turn section with the 4 difficult one foot turns in combination (rocker, counter, bracket, double twizzle) and a style B step sequence with 5 difficult steps/turns. .

I do feel that this rule-change is a bit of a loss. As Ben Agosto said earlier in the season "I just want to see more skating (as compared to choreographic moves)." I understand this is another attempt by the ID committee to push for more "popularity and entertainment value" in their discipline. And while the old rule may force us to watch some labored maneuvers from lower-ranked teams, it did produce some gorgeous display of edgework from the top teams.

 

[yurokis40]

I suspect L/L's Worlds debut will have to wait at least one more season. W/P may retire after Montreal (I think there's probably s likely chance) but not before. I assume competing at a home country Worlds is the reason they continued into the new quad. They are CAN #1 and the Worlds results showed that they still have some political push - I thought they should have been below C/B, and behind G/P in the FD. Will be interesting to see if they are set up for a medal next year, I'm sure the Canadian fed will be poltiking, since they are the only real shot at a medal, unless Daleman gets a 3A or a quad.

Given how tight it is with the top dance teams currently, I'm not sure you should be agitating for W/P to leave considering how easily spots could have been lost this year, and could be similarily vulnerable next year, even witha home ice advantage.

Honestly does this team still have the drive to compete for world medals they seem more interested in doing shows year round, their weak twizzles are always an adventure and have never been fixed if they are serious they should cut down the shows on stars on ice and get right back to training.

 

[bcash]

The thing with W/P is that even with home-ice advantage I struggle to see a path back to the podium for them. Will another 5th place finish be motivating enough for them? Unless they want a grand farewell like C/L had last season.

 

[Viscaro]

I think WP deserve to end their career in front of a home crowd, podium or not.

 

[illyria]

P/C's midline did appear slower than previous iterations at Euros and IdF, I think because of how they changed the middle part to add more appearance of intricacy and tango flourish, presumably.

But I've always thought, since the 15-16 season, that they have the best twizzles in the world. First of all they look like they skate on buttered ice which gives their twizzles an airiness; they also end each set with ease and polish, taking their time to exit like a light exhale of breath. In the Beethoven program for example, watch how between the 2nd and 3rd set Gabi P used her whole body to "finish" the phrase of movement, from the legs through the shoulders, and down to the fingers as if clasping on the note in the music. In terms of the rotation, they manage to give the impression that they rotate along a very uplifted, stretched central axis, while also having their blades firmly into the ice. And their rotation speed is just about right to give a sense of excitement while making every rotation fully articulated. Unless you can do it as fast as D/W, speed itself is not enough to elevate twizzles.

P/C changes in their RD midline step sequence were my favorite thing about thee RD. I loved the free leg work during the RBO-Mohawk (RBO to LFO)/LFO-Three Turn (LFO to LBI)/LBI-Three Turn (LBI to LFO) here:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/2adcd165ee5475cb9002f894f056fd08/tumblr_powqs4i3aP1u604cmo1_540.gif

I am a fan of P/C’s RD twizzles this year and love the control of the free leg and their coupee positions. I was a bigger fan of their original FD twizzles at IDF with the unique 3rd set and was unhappy it was changed at French Nationals.

My favorite twizzles this season are G/F and S/B though because they have very unique and difficult entries into their twizzles.

From 2016-2018 I actually wasn’t that big of a fan of P/C’s twizzles because I am not a fan of their blade grab twizzles since they could grab the blade at different times and a little later than I would like during the rotation and the spacing was sometimes inconsistent. I preferred S/B 2016 FD twizzles (very impressive Besti squat and hydro blade entry into extremely difficult sit twizzles + unique 3rd set with the change to coupee position within last two rotations with arms matched to the music), Shibs twizzles in general (they always had extra extra extra rotations than required, did 4 sets instead of 3, and were always matching in perfect unison), ans V/M’s 2018 FD twizzles because of the musicality and the switch in position of the partners between the 1st and 2nd set.

D/W had very fast twizzles that were very impressive for their time, especially back in 2006-2007 when teams who didn’t grow up with IJS had veeery slow and labored twizzles. My favorite twizzles from them are their Bollywood twizzles. My issue with their twizzles was that starting in the 2010-2011 season they started doing the same exact twizzles in both the SD and FD every year with the same features, amount of rotations, free leg positions, arm positions, and entry. I am glad ISU is now trying to avoid twizzles being the same in the RD and FD according to the press conference.

 

[Colonel Green]

The thing with W/P is that even with home-ice advantage I struggle to see a path back to the podium for them. Will another 5th place finish be motivating enough for them? Unless they want a grand farewell like C/L had last season.

They weren't that far off the podium this year, and that's after only doing a half-season (and with a free dance performance that wasn't their best). The path back to the podium for them is pretty straightforward, I'd say; skate well and do everything to build sentiment for a "one for the road" medal/potentially Canada's only medal in 2020.

With the new GOE rules the judges can basically do whatever they want as long as you don't really screw up.

 

[starrynight]

Does a team need to win world medals to have justification to want to continue competing?

If that was the case, you could make an argument that only 4 or so teams should even bother to show up.

WP certainly did Canadian ice dance a favour by helping secure the 3 spots for the home Worlds. I know people are impatient for teams like Lajoie/Lagha to move up, but they can’t get that opportunity unless there are 3 spots.

 

[bcash]

Does a team need to win world medals to have justification to want to continue competing?

If that was the case, you could make an argument that only 4 or so teams should even bother to show up.

WP certainly did Canadian ice dance a favour by helping secure the 3 spots for the home Worlds. I know people are impatient for teams like Lajoie/Lagha to move up, but they can’t get that opportunity unless there are 3 spots.

For a team of W/P's caliber and past accomplishments, I 'd say yes.

 

[starrynight]

For a team of W/P's caliber and past accomplishments, I 'd say yes.

I’m not sure what you mean. Weaver/Poje have always been a team that has sat in the top 5 at Worlds (usually at 4th or 5th) and when things have gone their way have, on a few occasions, cracked a bronze or a silver at Worlds.

If they are enjoying the process of competing then I don’t think it’s up to anyone else to tell them what to do. Particularly if they have the option of maybe concluding their long career in front of a home worlds next season.

I get the impression that WP are a team that like the process of skating and the sport itself. Which might sound obvious, but there are some skaters who I think use skating more as an avenue of just winning and when it comes down to it don’t care much for the sport outside of their medals.

 

[bcash]

P/C changes in their RD midline step sequence were my favorite thing about thee RD. I loved the free leg work during the RBO-Mohawk (RBO to LFO)/LFO-Three Turn (LFO to LBI)/LBI-Three Turn (LBI to LFO) here:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/2adcd165ee5475cb9002f894f056fd08/tumblr_powqs4i3aP1u604cmo1_540.gif

I am a fan of P/C’s RD twizzles this year and love the control of the free leg and their coupee positions. I was a bigger fan of their original FD twizzles at IDF with the unique 3rd set and was unhappy it was changed at French Nationals.

I did think this mini sequence in their midline was a highlight. But the final third of their midline I prefer the previous version, which I thought accentuated the music's phrasing better. I also preferred the 3rd set twizzles at IdF, with the torque of upper body and outstretched free leg. I do think S/B's twizzles are often quite daring and didn't understand why they weren't getting bigger GOEs on them prior to this season. American commentators love to gush about Shibs' twizzles but I remain lukewarm, mostly because of their muddled upper body positions, esp. Alex's.

 

[bcash]

I’m not sure what you mean. Weaver/Poje have always been a team that has sat in the top 5 at Worlds (usually at 4th or 5th) and when things have gone their way have, on a few occasions, cracked a bronze or a silver at Worlds.

If they are enjoying the process of competing then I don’t think it’s up to anyone else to tell them what to do. Particularly if they have the option of maybe concluding their long career in front of a home worlds next season.

I get the impression that WP are a team that like the process of skating and the sport itself. Which might sound obvious, but there are some skaters who I think use skating more as an avenue of just winning and when it comes down to it don’t care much for the sport outside of their medals.

I just think you always want to achieve progressively better results as a competitive skater, or at least not slipping down the rankings, given the physical and financial toll. But I don't know them. If they as you say enjoy the process more than anything else, then yeah skate on.

 

[barbarafan]

I was just flipping through gala. Were Weaver Poje not invited to the gala?

 

[aftershocks]

So will Weav/Po skip the GP again? Probably not, if they are aiming to go for a medal at Montreal Worlds. I love how Weav/Po have grown and how much they have shone through believing in themselves, in each other, and in the coaching team they have put together. Will the Shibs ultimately decide to return to the ice dance competitive fray and judging mash-ups? If so, when?

Unfortunately, the Russian push to get one or both top Russian dance teams on as many podiums as possible this quad, is and will continue to be the gnarly factor in the judging. Russia seeks to up-end North American ice dance dominance by any means necessary.

Of course, the trip-up factor is and will be Romain's visionary realization of the magical benefits of Euro-NA synergy. Call him 'Haggie' if you will. His Haggie-ness is joined at the 'Hip' with the Queen & King of Gadbois! Call them Haggie et M-F Dubreuil et Patch Lauzon Success Factor. Together, these Three Musketeers of Montreal have wrought magic and sweet-spot dominance, not only because they have extraordinary P/C and other exemplary athletes and artists to work magic with. Their success is NOT derived from winning at all costs! Their success is derived from their mantra and guiding force of orchestrating a disciplined approach to melding limitless passion with expansive creativity in forging champion ice dancers.

 

[mjb52]

Yes the Russians are definitely the only federation trying to get their teams on the podium.

 

[aftershocks]

Yes the Russians are definitely the only federation trying to get their teams on the podium.

Again, it's not really all about desperately focusing on the podium, as the Russians have been learning and utilizing to their advantage (along with their fed taking care of the politics), eh!

Of course, everyone involved in the arena of figure skating realizes and must learn how to strategize the fact that figure skating is also unfortunately about politics and buzz, etc. Aside from that ubiquitous harsh reality, what Gadbois continues to show us is that focusing more on the passion, hard work, discipline and creativity which can wrought magic, will often lead to winning, beyond all expectations.

 

[Dobre]

I just think you always want to achieve progressively better results as a competitive skater, or at least not slipping down the rankings, given the physical and financial toll. But I don't know them. If they as you say enjoy the process more than anything else, then yeah skate on.

If Bobrova & Soloviev, Hubbell & Donohue, Guignard & Fabbri, Cappellini & Lanotte, the Shibs, Chock & Bates, Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Papadakis & Cizeron, Virtue & Moir, Stepanova & Bukin, Weaver & Poje, Hawayek & Baker, Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen, Coomes & Buckland, and Gilles & Poirier had thought this way, we would have had none of them at this year's Worlds or at the Olympics. You'd darn well better be prepared to stay and fight after a loss in ice dance today.