Canadian Men 2018-19 season news & updates

[Colonel Green]

When was the last time Canada only had one spot to Worlds in the Men's event?

Looking through the rosters, it looks like 1980.

 

[dramagrrl]

Ugh, only one spot for a home Worlds!

 

[Jammers]

It might take a phenom like Gogolev to put Canada back on the map for Men's. Look at what Nathan has done for US men he has revolutionized the men's division in the US. US men while always competitive hadn't been contenders for world medals since Evan and Johnny but Nathan comes along and changes everything and now two US men are on the podium and Nathan is partly responsible because he helped inspire Vincent to push himself at a young age.

 

[Colonel Green]

It might take a phenom like Gogolev to put Canada back on the map for Men's.

We're not lacking in men's skaters who are competitive internationally. This was just a bad competition.

Though obviously lots of people are hoping Gogolev will be very successful when he goes senior.

 

[Rafter]

Dismal results but not entirely unexpected. Messing only has one quad so isn’t competitive in this field and is mistake prone and NN seems to always peak at nationals and then it’s downhill from there.

Still, Skate Canada must be reeling from this - only one man at a home worlds. And whoever is that man next year is going to be under *enormous* pressure. Both from trying to place top 10 and skating in front of a home crowd. Honestly I don’t see who is up to the challenge.

Next year I’d like to see a new face at worlds, maybe Phan or Orzel.

 

[mackiecat]

Skate Canada needs to send Orzel and perhaps Roman to a bunch of Sr B so they can move up in the world standing. Who ever is the lone man needs to have a fairly good world standing so they aren’t stuck in the early short program flights.

 

[Colonel Green]

Dismal results but not entirely unexpected. Messing only has one quad so isn’t competitive in this field

Keegan's score from 4CC would have had him fifth here, and he was eighth at Worlds last year. He isn't a gold medal contender, no, but to say he's not competitive in this field is patently not true. He just had a bad event, which happens to everybody.

Next year I’d like to see a new face at worlds, maybe Phan or Orzel.

Seeing as neither of them has yet demonstrated the nerve in competition that Keegan or Nam have, it's kind of getting ahead of things to start talking about replacing them.

Obviously, I hope those guys continue to develop and would be very happy if they had good results next year that would justify sending them to Worlds, but their results this season aren't terribly suggestive that that sort of rapid rise is in store.

 

[Seerek]

Not that this would have mattered in the overall standing or obtaining 2 berths, but I wonder if Keegan's team ever discuss Plan B and Plan C Layouts if Plan A layouts aren't working in the beginning of the program. Example: Tacking on just a double toe at end of that triple axel late might have added 4 points.

 

[Skate Talker]

 

[Skate Talker]

By the way - Don't know if Kurt Browning was just having a bad stretch or if he really has no clue about the IJS rules but he made some strange comments during the Men's Short. Maybe he just doesn't bother to keep up with the changes but for me that should be an essential part of his commentator gig. If a former skater can't understand the rules, how will Joe Public ever learn anything to help them understand the sport?

For example, after Kolyada turned his opening 4T into a bad 3T, Kurt thought he could still do another 3T as the second part of his combination, whereas Kolyada rightly only did a 2T so as to score an eligible combo. Then during the Ladies Free he couldn't remember the terms "back-loading" and "distribution of highlights".

I get the feeling that Kurt would have been really horrible at skating under IJS. Unlike Jeff Buttle who knew the rules inside and out and even mid competition was able to adjust and maximize his points as he went along. (Is Kurt the new Nobunari Oda?)

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Lee Barkell is an outstanding coach in his own right. Please, let's not make it seem like turning to him is some sort of booby prize when Brian Orser is booked too heavily/isn't available. IMO he's one of North America's top coaches even though more low-key and not the household name of Orser, Carroll, Zakrajsek, etc.

Barkell is doing most of the job... Brian is mostly a pretty good manager as far as training is concern. Ghislain Briand is also another great assets for kids at CC. Gogolev is still young and although he's amazing, he's stil in a developemental phase. Barkell was with him at every single competition I saw him.

 

[wickedwitch]

While I like both Messing and Nam well enough, I really love the next generation of Canadian men like Sadovsky, Phan, Orzel, and Nadeau. I was hoping at least one of them would make it to Worlds in 2020. That seems a whole lot less likely now.

 

[Erin]

Not that this would have mattered in the overall standing or obtaining 2 berths, but I wonder if Keegan's team ever discuss Plan B and Plan C Layouts if Plan A layouts aren't working in the beginning of the program. Example: Tacking on just a double toe at end of that triple axel late might have added 4 points.

And he also lost points by not having a combination in his short program. “I thought of it after I landed” was what he said coming into the Kiss & Cry. These are things he should be doing in training so they are automatic. An extra four points in the short from a triple toe would have meant a later draw in the long and probably higher PCS. Add that to your example in the long and we are getting pretty close to 12th place.

 

[Skate Talker]

Just reminding myself that the ONLY reason we even had 2 men at this year's worlds was Keegan's clutch performance last year so sad as I am I'm not going to put this year's results all on his shoulders.

 

[Rafter]

It might take a phenom like Gogolev to put Canada back on the map for Men's. Look at what Nathan has done for US men he has revolutionized the men's division in the US. US men while always competitive hadn't been contenders for world medals since Evan and Johnny but Nathan comes along and changes everything and now two US men are on the podium and Nathan is partly responsible because he helped inspire Vincent to push himself at a young age.

Keegan's score from 4CC would have had him fifth here, and he was eighth at Worlds last year. He isn't a gold medal contender, no, but to say he's not competitive in this field is patently not true.

Ok point taken but my point is very soon only having one quad will not be enough for a top 10. The top 5 at worlds are landing multiple different quads. Soon it will be the top 10.

 

[Skate Talker]

Just remembering how, as far back as when Orser retired, many thought Canada's days of having a top-tier men's skater were over. Well we have certainly had a very good run.

I think the men's discipline right now is the most unpredictable with the explosion of multiple quads and the need to add top-drawer artistry. This is leading to a lot of crash and burn results along with some of the most balanced, brilliant performances we have ever seen. Those are a figure skating fan's dream come true imho. We appear to have gotten past the point of winning just on tech, thank goodness. As witnessed by Jason Brown's SP marks, the judges have managed at least partially to acknowledge that PCS is not completely tied to TES.

I fear the ladies is headed that way for the next few years though. The judges are still equating high PCS directly to high tech so though Zagitova and Medvedeva are now upping their components game and starting to get closer to actually earning those scores, I fear the explosion of tech coming in the ladies event in the next few years is going to rule the day.

 

[mag]

Example: Tacking on just a double toe at end of that triple axel late might have added 4 points.

A double toe would add 1.3 points. After the half way mark there would be an additional 10%

 

[kwanfan1818]

The first 3A was <<. The second was 3+REP because it wasn't in combination. Isn't that a 20% deduction on the repeated jump, or did I miss a rule change? A 2T would have taken away the repeat.

ETA: base, including bonus, was 6.16. It would have been 8.8+2T bonus amount.

 

[Dobre]

Ok point taken but my point is very soon only having one quad will not be enough for a top 10. The top 5 at worlds are landing multiple different quads. Soon it will be the top 10.

There having been sooo many men at Junior Worlds that landed more than one clean quad.

 

[IloveFS]

It seems that Keegan Messing has been off since announcing his engagement.... Do you think he has other priorities now?

 

[IloveFS]

While I like both Messing and Nam well enough, I really love the next generation of Canadian men like Sadovsky, Phan, Orzel, and Nadeau. I was hoping at least one of them would make it to Worlds in 2020. That seems a whole lot less likely now.

I think Orzel has that competitive spirit and mind-set. I would not be surprised if he starts to make a name for himself next year.

I see a lot of potential in Sadovsky. He's hyper aware of the "quad revolution" so I think he wants to compete with the likes of Chen and Hanyu.

 

[Colonel Green]

It seems that Keegan Messing has been off since announcing his engagement.... Do you think he has other priorities now?

I don't see the connection. 4CC was his best event of the season, and that was afterward.

 

[IloveFS]

My recollection is that his best performances were earlier in the season.

I don't see the connection. 4CC was his best event of the season, and that was afterward.

 

[RoseRed]

My recollection is that his best performances were earlier in the season.

Well, his SB score is from 4CCs.

 

[Colonel Green]

My recollection is that his best performances were earlier in the season.

He had his best-ever free skate at 4CC, and his best ever total score. If not for some of the technical calling in the short program he'd have won bronze.

 

[danafan]

Wow what a bummer. Those 3axel+REP really did them in

How on earth will they select the lone entry next year?!

 

[IloveFS]

Wow what a bummer. Those 3axel+REP really did them in

How on earth will they select the lone entry next year?!

Nationals and 4CC????

 

[Dobre]

I think Keegan is Keegan. He's come so far and gained so much experience. Nam too. He's gained so much perspective and learned how to skate through the tough moments in a program--to keep fighting. I think Canada sent the best they could and both guys tried. They didn't get the second spot, but they were the right team. Both have done better. Both have done worse. Neither generally does more than two quads and neither has world-champion level PCS, but they have enough to be competitive for the top 10 when they have a really great set of performances. It's just that there are a lot of guys in that position.

We knew this coming into the event. We've seen how up & down the guys results can go. You can make the final group at Worlds and you can miss the cut to the free skate altogether. One year, you can be 19th (Vincent) and 20th (Jin) in the free, and at a consecutive Worlds you can be on the podium. It's such a roller coaster ride among the men. The first group up in the men's FS at Worlds this year included Bychenko (4th at last year's Worlds), Tanaka (2 quads & 2 axels at 4CCs), Vasiljevs (4th at last year's Europeans), Kerry (who has two different quads--I think three total planned--in his free if he could ever get them done in the same event), and Samarin (2nd at this year's Europeans). Winner of this year's GPF bronze medal finished 19th.

This is the way it is for a bit. Canada had Patrick for years. They have a very talented youngster just starting out on the JGP. And there are a whole bunch of Canadian guys that can make a splash on a great day. But a few rebuilding years here probably.

 

[Rock2]

I think Orzel has that competitive spirit and mind-set. I would not be surprised if he starts to make a name for himself next year.

ehhhh....
That's precisely his weakness.
He has all the tools except a good body line and the fact that he's marinating in his own urine when they call his name in competition.

He is making some very good strides on this under Lee -- skating cleaner and much less popping -- but he needs another year or two. No way he'd handle Montreal.

 

[Rock2]

Dismal results but not entirely unexpected. Messing only has one quad so isn’t competitive in this field and is mistake prone and NN seems to always peak at nationals and then it’s downhill from there.

Still, Skate Canada must be reeling from this - only one man at a home worlds. And whoever is that man next year is going to be under *enormous* pressure. Both from trying to place top 10 and skating in front of a home crowd. Honestly I don’t see who is up to the challenge.

Next year I’d like to see a new face at worlds, maybe Phan or Orzel.

I was loving the heck out of this post until the words Phan and Orzel.

Don't get me wrong -- we have lots of good young talent including those guys, but the ONLY person who can handle Montreal worlds in our current landscape is Keegan. He was crap in Saitama but was still only 10 pts from top 10. That's like one element.

I'm open to changing my mind if someone shows up to fall internationals on fire.