Who is the first female skater in the senior division to do the double axel/ triple toe combination sucessfully?

[Triple loop]

I've been googling this and no results. My guess is Elaine Zayak in 1980 at age 14.

 

[bardtoob]

Sanda Dubravcic was doing 2A-3T about the same as Zayak.

Here is Sanda doing the 2F-3T at 1979 Worlds:

https://youtu.be/_xiukwqGxw4

And here she is at the 1980 Olympics:

https://youtu.be/x9rNQB1uTM4

 

[floskate]

Unless Dubravcic did it at Worlds in 1979 or Europeans in 1980 then Zayak would have been the first in Dortmund. Dubravcic did 2f3t in 1979 for the SP and 2z3t in 1980 along with Zayak and Witt. But I don't remember Sanda doing 2x3t. Not sure if she was broadcast by CTV in 1979.

 

[WillyElliot]

Pretty sure it was Zayak.

 

[Seerek]

I'd be curious how many men were doing the combination, if any, up to that point in 1980 when Elaine completed it.

 

[floskate]

I'd be curious how many men were doing the combination, if any, up to that point in 1980 when Elaine completed it.

Good point. I'd need to go watch some footage because I can't off the top of my head think of anyone! Combinations just weren't such a big deal back then other than in the SP. The first 3-3 (3t3t) wasn't done until Dortmund in 1980 and that was by Gzregorz Filipowski who was 13 at the time!

 

[bardtoob]

I think Vodorazova is a candidate for the first Ladies 2A-3T.

 

[bardtoob]

Could it be baby midori?

 

[floskate]

I think Vodorazova is a candidate for the first Ladies 2A-3T.

She was taught by Zhuk who was great at coming up with innovative combo's. She never did a 2a3t afaik, but she DID attempt a 2x-euler-3s 41 years ago!!!

https://youtu.be/rlopVpUPAQY?t=45

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

She was taught by Zhuk who was great at coming up with innovative combo's. She never did a 2a3t afaik, but she DID attempt a 2x-euler-3s 41 years ago!!!

https://youtu.be/rlopVpUPAQY?t=45

Vodorezova was a boss. Too bad injuries and arthritis hobbled her amazing talent.

 

[WillyElliot]

Could it be baby midori?

Midori was credited with the first 3/3, right? But Elaine was all 2a-3t and 2z-3t even earlier.

 

[floskate]

Midori was credited with the first 3/3, right? But Elaine was all 2a-3t and 2z-3t even earlier.

Yep Midori did the first 3-3. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7a1tCxqch0

 

[Triple loop]

Here is Elaine at the 1980 Worlds.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k7wV32eQCBs

 

[WillyElliot]

Isn't Vodorezova now the coach Buyanova? Her talent was amazing as a teen.

 

[floskate]

Isn't Vodorezova now the coach Buyanova? Her talent was amazing as a teen.

The very same and yes she was super talented. At the 1977 Worlds in Tokyo it was 13 year old Vodorezova who won the free skate ahead of Fratianne and all the rest. But after '78 it becomes mysterious. She was entered for comps then withdrawn for the next couple of years. It was 1982 before she properly re-emerged and by that time she had grown and the jumps had disappeared, although she did keep her amazing double axel. Her trainer Stanislav Zhuk reminds me of Tutberidze in some ways. His biggest successes came when the female skaters were child size. Once they grew - Vodorezova, Cherkasova, Pestova, Pershina - not so much. His last high profile successful female was a 1985/86 sized Ekaterina Gordeeva.

I'm rambling sorry...just occurred to me and JMO.

 

[LarrySK8]

Did Zhuk kind of invent the "one and a half" style pair teams? The taller, stronger man with a much shorter, lighter girl/woman? And didn't he coach Rodnina, who was shorter and lighter than her second partner Zaitzev? I recall Pestova and Leonovich, who later coached G&G in the Zhuk style after they finished with Zhuk (or he retired), who resembled G&G with a 4twist, a circular lift into throw double axel and great sbs double axels.

 

[gkelly]

The very same and yes she was super talented. At the 1977 Worlds in Tokyo it was 13 year old Vodorezova who won the free skate ahead of Fratianne and all the rest. But after '78 it becomes mysterious. She was entered for comps then withdrawn for the next couple of years.

Didn't she suffer from juvenile arthritis during those years? Fortunately, she was able to return to competition a few years later.

See Wikipedia.

 

[floskate]

Didn't she suffer from juvenile arthritis during those years? Fortunately, she was able to return to competition a few years later.

See Wikipedia.

Yep that was the explanation for her withdrawals back then. Her only actual competitive major international appearance between 1978 and 1982 was 1980 Worlds where she competed the figures (11th) and SP (15th) before being withdrawn. I have that SP on tape and she had grown a lot. Interestingly if you just look at her results it appears that she was much more successful upon her return (and clearly her figures benefited from her maturity) but for me at least, she was never the same skater.

 

[floskate]

Did Zhuk kind of invent the "one and a half" style pair teams? The taller, stronger man with a much shorter, lighter girl/woman? And didn't he coach Rodnina, who was shorter and lighter than her second partner Zaitzev? I recall Pestova and Leonovich, who later coached G&G in the Zhuk style after they finished with Zhuk (or he retired), who resembled G&G with a 4twist, a circular lift into throw double axel and great sbs double axels.

Yes pretty much. Rodnina as you say was naturally very small (5ft) but Zaitsev who was only an inch taller than Alexei Ulanov, yet the R&Z pairing was SO much more powerful and dynamic. With Ulanov a lot of her wins were perhaps questionable - on more than one occasion Smirnova & Suraikin out-skated them - but with Zaitsev she really became unbeatable. Then they left Zhuk to work with Tarasova in 1974 and developed their artistry to compliment their power. Zhuk was left to try and recreate something to rival it and kept pairing tiny girls with grown men so they could try harder and harder tricks like sbs triple toes, quad twists, triple axel twists and complex lifts. It's like he had a blue print; all these pairs - C&S, P&L, P&A and even early G&G had the exact same - flawless - technique. Except the technique didn't work so well once the girls grew.

 

[meggonzo]

Zhuk was left to try and recreate something to rival it and kept pairing tiny girls with grown men so they could try harder and harder tricks like sbs triple toes, quad twists, triple axel twists and complex lifts

What is a triple axel twist?

 

[floskate]

What is a triple axel twist?

It's a twist lift but done from an axel entry rather than a lutz entry which is what we always see nowadays. It used to be called an axel catch.

Here is Pestova & Leonovich doing a pretty clean triple axel twist in 1979:
https://youtu.be/SGqlzcXumz0?t=223

Rodnina & Zaitsev double axel version of the same element:
https://youtu.be/fAXHMKUVewc?t=449

The last pair to use this twist lift that I can remember was Valova & Vassiliev here in 1988:
https://youtu.be/DWgHWLhrjMs?t=180

Can anyone else think of a more recent pair?

 

[Taso]

It's a twist lift but done from an axel entry rather than a lutz entry which is what we always see nowadays. It used to be called an axel catch.

Here is Pestova & Leonovich doing a pretty clean triple axel twist in 1979:
https://youtu.be/SGqlzcXumz0?t=223

Rodnina & Zaitsev double axel version of the same element:
https://youtu.be/fAXHMKUVewc?t=449

The last pair to use this twist lift that I can remember was Valova & Vassiliev here in 1988:
https://youtu.be/DWgHWLhrjMs?t=180

Can anyone else think of a more recent pair?

Kvitchenko & Kadyrkaev, technically, since they went to 1989. I can't think of someone past them?

 

[gkelly]

Not an axel takeoff, but not the traditional flip/lutz twist either. If you just named it by her feet, would it be a toe walley or "toe axel" twist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTBRUc4afek&t=3m31s

 

[bardtoob]

Not an axel takeoff, but not the traditional flip/lutz twist either. If you just named it by her feet, would it be a toe walley or "toe axel" twist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTBRUc4afek&t=3m31s

I think of it more like a cartwheel lift entrance.

 

[floskate]

Not an axel takeoff, but not the traditional flip/lutz twist either. If you just named it by her feet, would it be a toe walley or "toe axel" twist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTBRUc4afek&t=3m31s

The same here from Kitty & Peter Carruthers doing their lateral twist. These were never labelled as having a jump origin were they? It was more the air position wasn't it?
https://youtu.be/Jer97vmp2ZY?t=256

 

[LarrySK8]

Kitty & Peter Carruthers

Can we ask them about the take-off? They appear to have invented the lateral twist lift.