U.S. Men 2018-19 season (cont.) - news & updates

[Willin]

@Marco After the talk of decreasing quads in Vincent's programs I was surprised to see four attempts in the FS. I don't see at all how the FS vindicated him. In the SP he only got one called, but in the FS he got two underrotations and a downgrade on his quads. On the fourth quad (the 4Lz to start the program) Michael and Charlie seemed surprised it wasn't called as underrotated. The 3-3 later in the program looked borderline UR to me on both jumps, but the rest of his triples were fine. Honestly I think he just needs to cut back on quads other than the 4Lz (that's the one he gets called UR least often) and go for the triples with +GOE.
Michael and Charlie were commenting that he changed the jump location relative to the camera to try to avoid URs, but that didn't work here. If anything it should trouble him more: lots of skaters here in both ladies and mens got away with URs. If he gets called for them they had to have been really obvious regardless of camera angle, and that should be a red flag to him and his team.

 

[somechick]

Does NBC's video of Nathan's FS play for anyone outside the USA? (wondering if it's geoblocked): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q9GFtiSrYc

I am in Australia and it is blocked for me.

 

[Tavi]

@Marco After the talk of decreasing quads in Vincent's programs I was surprised to see four attempts in the FS. I don't see at all how the FS vindicated him. In the SP he only got one called, but in the FS he got two underrotations and a downgrade on his quads. On the fourth quad (the 4Lz to start the program) Michael and Charlie seemed surprised it wasn't called as underrotated. The 3-3 later in the program looked borderline UR to me on both jumps, but the rest of his triples were fine. Honestly I think he just needs to cut back on quads other than the 4Lz (that's the one he gets called UR least often) and go for the triples with +GOE.
Michael and Charlie were commenting that he changed the jump location relative to the camera to try to avoid URs, but that didn't work here. If anything it should trouble him more: lots of skaters here in both ladies and mens got away with URs. If he gets called for them they had to have been really obvious regardless of camera angle, and that should be a red flag to him and his team.

Oh that’s so funny - I was so annoyed with Tom Z’s Facebook post about the terrible calls that I told him if he really thought Vincent’s jumps were clean he should place them so the tech panel could see it!

 

[Marco]

Strategically, the BV of a quad with a < call (70%) is still higher than the triple, but if he attempts the quad there is a chance it will be called rotated. I guess it is hard to switch away from the formula that got him to the Olympics.

At this point my feeling is that it is more about power, strength and conditioning than actual technique.

 

[lurkz2]

Strategically, the BV of a quad with a < call (70%) is still higher than the triple, but if he attempts the quad there is a chance it will be called rotated. I guess it is hard to switch away from the formula that got him to the Olympics.

At this point my feeling is that it is more about power, strength and conditioning than actual technique.

But it's a new season and new Olympic cycle with new rules, requiring new strategies. Hopefully this was just a trial balloon since Vincent doesn't have much competition at Nationals...

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

I love the top 3 placements for the men! I think the judges got it right.

I did love Sean Rabbitt's programs this year as well. I wish he had higher tech scores so he could be up there with the top 3 men. He would be great at NHK Cup because his large Japanese fan base.

 

[skatingguy]

NBC's video of Nathan's Nationals FS (eta that it's geoblocked in Asia, not sure where else): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q9GFtiSrYc

I am in Australia and it is blocked for me.

Anything from NBC is going to be blocked outside of the US - even though it's not an international event.

 

[Skittl1321]

I was surprised to see the announcement for the Junior World team was that a selection of men were invited to a camp, and the team would be announced after the camp.

I wonder if this leads the way to using 4CCs as a trial for the seniors before a team is named...

 

[Frau Muller]

I was surprised to see the announcement for the Junior World team was that a selection of men were invited to a camp, and the team would be announced after the camp.

I wonder if this leads the way to using 4CCs as a trial for the seniors before a team is named...

Other countries have done this sort of thing for years. It’s time for the USA to be equally smart.

 

[Sasha is DIVINE]

Even with the mistakes, I was really impressed with Torgashev. He has wonderful skating skills and good spins. His musicality is already decent and will only get better. I really think he could be a contender in the future.

 

[Sylvia]

Article published before the Men's FS at Nationals with interesting/insightful quotes from Tomoki Hiwatashi, Alex Krasnozhon, Camden Pulkinen, Andrew Torgashev and Tim Goebel: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...are-there-any-other-u-s-figure-skating-stars/

Reason for Andrew's JGP Final withdrawal:

Torgashev qualified for the Junior Grand Prix Final this season, but a fractured right toe forced him to withdraw. He spent eight weeks off of the ice, some of it in a walking boot, before resuming training around mid-November.

 

[Skittl1321]

Other countries have done this sort of thing for years. It’s time for the USA to be equally smart.

Or risk burn out of their skaters due to extensive travel demands.

I think it depends. But it would be a good tool to have in their pocket in some cases.

 

[barbarafan]

I am in Australia and it is blocked for me.

I used https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv-JVzMnPJI

 

[all_empty]

I was surprised to see the announcement for the Junior World team was that a selection of men were invited to a camp, and the team would be announced after the camp.

I wonder if this leads the way to using 4CCs as a trial for the seniors before a team is named...

I believe the USFS used this process in the late '90s, so it's nothing new.

On a totally different note, did Vera Wang design Nathan's costumes? Because that smoke wisp is a total rip-off from another designer (I though John Varvatos, but I need to do some research). I know because I wanted to buy that top from Bloomingdales a few years ago but it was like $300 lol.

She gave Kwan a squiggly line version for the 2001 GPF.

 

[Karen-W]

I believe the USFS used this process in the late '90s, so it's nothing new.

On a totally different note, did Vera Wang design Nathan's costumes? Because that smoke wisp is a total rip-off from another designer (I though John Varvatos, but I need to do some research). I know because I wanted to buy that top from Bloomingdales a few years ago but it was like $300 lol.

She gave Kwan a squiggly line version for the 2001 GPF.

According to the chatter in the PBP thread from those watching the NBC broadcast, apparently the costume Vera designed for Nathan didn't fit right so Raf told him to change shirts. What he wore was a practice shirt he pulled out of his bag. I really hope someone can screen capture and share the original costume Nathan was supposed to wear - apparently it had "South American toxic orange frogs" on it, a la Lysacek's glitter snake that Vera designed in 2010.

 

[Skittl1321]

I liked Nathan's shirt, but I'm glad to hear it wasn't designer. That was a pretty basic pattern.

Also- do men not strap their shirts anymore. It was up to his neck in spins!

 

[all_empty]

According to the chatter in the PBP thread from those watching the NBC broadcast, apparently the costume Vera designed for Nathan didn't fit right so Raf told him to change shirts. What he wore was a practice shirt he pulled out of his bag. I really hope someone can screen capture and share the original costume Nathan was supposed to wear - apparently it had "South American toxic orange frogs" on it, a la Lysacek's glitter snake that Vera designed in 2010.

Ha!

Yeah, I've definitely seen his shirt on the rack but it is not cheap! Or at least the one at Bloomies wasn't.

 

[gkelly]

I believe the USFS used this process in the late '90s, so it's nothing new.

Yes, in the late 1990s there was a Junior World team selection competition at the end of the summer. Junior Worlds was held in December at that time, so the previous year's Nationals results would be too outdated for making good selections.

With the current schedule, head-to-head comparison of skaters who were competing at both senior and junior levels at Nationals, some of whom have international experience and some who had a breakout at Nationals, could be useful. Of course, it is one more event for skaters who might end up getting chosen (even as alternates, who might then be called on to compete) for both Jr. Worlds and 4Cs or even Worlds.

If they told the athletes before Nationals that there would be a team selection camp, then it would be weird not to hold it after all even if the Nationals results make the team selections obvious. Choosing alternates might still be at stake, and any spring junior international assignments.

 

[Carolla5501]

Just wondering where all the posters are who "KNEW" that Nathan going to college was a HUGE error and his skating would never be the same?

 

[misskarne]

Just wondering where all the posters are who "KNEW" that Nathan going to college was a HUGE error and his skating would never be the same?

*cackles* I actually think he looks better for it. More relaxed.

On that, Vincent should hire Josh to do his competitive programs next season. That exhibition was delightful and he really came alive and drew me in.

 

[Vagabond]

Just wondering where all the posters are who "KNEW" that Nathan going to college was a HUGE error and his skating would never be the same?

Studying?

 

[acraven]

The shirt Nathan wore for the competition-day warm-up session (not the 6-minute warm-up right before the skate) didn't actually have frogs on it, just some horizontal orange patches (not stripes all the way around the shirt). It was a geometric pattern, basically just black and white, but I think there was a dark gray square somewhere. I thought it was OK, though I'd have preferred black/white rather than black/orange. But I am a fan of simple designs.

 

[YukiNieve]

This was the costume he was originally wearing.
https://twitter.com/YukiNieve/status/1089586182579724288

 

[Karen-W]

This was the costume he was originally wearing.
https://twitter.com/YukiNieve/status/1089586182579724288

I like the practice shirt he wound up wearing better, lol.

 

[Dobre]

I like the practice shirt he wound up wearing better, lol.

Far better. We need a free-Nathan-from-Vera-Wang-designs-go-fund me page. Whatever she/her company is paying him to wear this stuff, there must be a better way.

Meanwhile, OMG that was an incredible free skate!

 

[luckiest1]

I saw that black/orange combo in the final practice and wondered if it was Vera Wang, turns out I was right LOL. I liked what he wore in the freeskate better too. It was my first time ever seeing Nathan live and I was blown away!

 

[Wyliefan]

The shirt Nathan wore for the competition-day warm-up session (not the 6-minute warm-up right before the skate) didn't actually have frogs on it, just some horizontal orange patches (not stripes all the way around the shirt). It was a geometric pattern, basically just black and white, but I think there was a dark gray square somewhere. I thought it was OK, though I'd have preferred black/white rather than black/orange. But I am a fan of simple designs.

I don't think anyone said it had frogs on it, just that the color scheme resembled that of certain South American frogs. In any event, it was pretty awful. Glad he changed it.

 

[Tavi]

Is there some reason why Nathan’s costume is especially fascinating this year? Between this thread and the one on GS there are probably at least 30 posts about it.

 

[MrMystery]

I like the black/orange option, but it was clear there was an issue with the fit. I *think* what he actually wore was also Vera - a few options were made for him. Additionally, I can assure you Vera isn't paying him... his team has a longstanding relationship with Vera's team.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Did she design this one with aerodynamics in mind too? Lmao. She’s so full of BS.