U.S. Ice Dance 2018-19 season news & updates

[aftershocks]

Dobre, you make your case for M/C well. Personally of the younger teams,I prefer H/B, C/P and the Parsons siblings over M/C. Until this season Lorraine and Quinn's skating just seemed frantic to me, speed for speed's sake, getting the elements done well but with little finesse and refinement. I think this year's program is better for them. We'll see how they do this season, but their competition domestically is brutal.

I really do not see what's not to like about any of the top flight (and lower level) U.S. ice dance teams. They're all good and they all bring something worthy and unique to the ice. As fans, we are all going to be drawn more to certain teams than to others for usually indefinable reasons. How teams grow and gain momentum is the result of a multitude of factors, most importantly finding the right music and overall movement style/concept/themes that will challenge them and enhance their strengths.

I find M/C to be a captivating and promising team who are still rather young and are still learning. But boy, they seem capable of going far if they are guided carefully and stay passionate and determined. Their tango program is contrastingly full of gem-worthy moments that show flashes of brilliance, along with moments that show they still have a way to go. But they are obviously a competitive team who would be going to Worlds every year if they were representing any other country besides the U.S. So U.S. talent and depth in ice dance is both a blessing and a curse these days.

I see that Daniel Eaton has teamed with Yura Min, and thus he has escaped the U.S.'s black hole waiting game in ice dance.

ETA:
Sara Rasher of The Finer Sports lists M/C's FD at 4CCs as one of the 16 best ice dance programs for the 2017 -2018 season. ITA! http://thefinersports.com/2018/05/16-great-ice-dance-performances-of-2017-18/

 

[Lara111]

Grishuk & Platov were my greatest love as a dance team. The term "frantic" was always used by critics deriding them as a young team for their greatest strengths (speed & footwork). I find that when I hear the term, I often want to see the team and the program. There is great dynamism and intensity in what G&P became during those final two seasons after harnessing their power, but also terrific energy & excitement in those early years. I fell in love with the latter first. Not to compare M&C to G&P. Only to explain why, ironically, the term "frantic" always spins positive in my brain.

Also, what is speed for speed's sake? It's probably the greatest determining factor in who wins. It impacts the difficulty of every element, GOE, and PCS. The greatest teams perform with speed. Even while skating to soft, gentle, or flowing music, they fly.

To me, there is real value in encouraging teams to be sharper and purposeful with their movement. With that, I agree. There's a very special kind of unison that you see among the top teams that tends to be a real separator. But powerful, dynamic, and fast--those are great attributes.

Grishuk & Platov is so well matched team

 

[Spiralgraph]

All of the young USA teams are talented and capable of going far. a lot depends on how they perform in actual competitions compared to their rivals. The USA ice dance field is jam packed (ice logged, you might say!) and not every one of these young teams will be able to achieve top success.
It's simple math. Only three spots available for worlds and the Olympics, assuming that our dance teams remain the top ten. Okay you have H/D, C/B H/B currently ranked at the top and probably staying till 2022. So let's say the Shibs return for 2020. That's four top teams already. And what about the junior teams which will move up to senior in the next two years?
My mind gets dizzy trying to process it all. These young teams will most likely have success at the challengers and on the Grand Prix, but who among them and how many will break into the US top three and get named to Worlds in the next three years? Which of our current top three teams will become vulnerable and perhaps lose their standings?

I have no crystal ball and I can't say for certain who will be the top USA team. I know what I want to happen and I know what young teams I prefer over others. Others will think differently. That's what makes for good competition and forum posts.

 

[PRlady]

The logjam looks something like what the Russians have in ladies. But AFAIK, none of the younger teams could change countries to get around the logjam except C/P, and Russia is going to have its own young teams coming up.

I'm afraid of H/B being caught in between the secure elders and the up-and-comers and squushed out of contention. And I really like them a lot, along with C/P.

 

[Spiralgraph]

The logjam looks something like what the Russians have in ladies. But AFAIK, none of the younger teams could change countries to get around the logjam except C/P, and Russia is going to have its own young teams coming up.

I'm afraid of H/B being caught in between the secure elders and the up-and-comers and squushed out of contention. And I really like them a lot, along with C/P.

Ah I agree with your preferences, PRLady. I really favor H/B and C/P and for this coming season if both of them make the USA podium I'll be thrilled. But I shan't underestimate what Marie-France and Patrice can do for Hawayek/ Baker. I'll keep my fingers crossed for them.

 

[VGThuy]

Some times, it's the ones you don't expect to be the most successful to be the most successful in these situations. But then other times it is. So basically I have no wisdom to offer despite my 20 years of figure skating watching experience.

 

[missing]

The logjam looks something like what the Russians have in ladies. But AFAIK, none of the younger teams could change countries to get around the logjam except C/P, and Russia is going to have its own young teams coming up.

I'm afraid of H/B being caught in between the secure elders and the up-and-comers and squushed out of contention. And I really like them a lot, along with C/P.

Christina Carreira is Canadian, so I'd think she and Anthony Ponomarenko could change to Canada (the primary reason against it is it would break my heart, which I doubt is a consideration for them).

 

[Colonel Green]

Christina Carreira is Canadian, so I'd think she and Anthony Ponomarenko could change to Canada (the primary reason against it is it would break my heart, which I doubt is a consideration for them).

The post you’re quoting noted that C/P are the ones who could in theory change countries.

I’m not sure how helpful that would necessarily be, though, even if they wanted to. Canadian ice dance doesn’t have quite the depth of the US at the moment, but it’s not exactly an easy field either. Generally when people country-switch to gain advantage it’s to go a smaller fed without a lot of competition, not to go from the deepest senior ice dance field to the second- or third-deepest.

 

[chameleonster]

Jean-Luc Baker is also British, although I am not seeing a whole lot of scenarios where USFSA lets any of their top teams go. Maybe individual partners to smaller federations, but not entire teams.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Hmmm, that could actually be an interesting opportunity for Jean-Luc, but it would have to be with Kaitlyn and the whole British citizenship prospect for her would take too long. I don't see that type of country switch happening at all, barring possible unforeseen occurrences related to injury and splitting, which is unlikely. H/B are in a good position for the time being IMO of making a case for a solid top three in the U.S. The other young teams just have to concentrate on improving and hoping to break through for one of the top 3 spots somehow, or else setting their sights on an 8-year plan in regard to going for the Olympics. Like Ashley Cain re Australia (her father's birthplace) and Canada (her mother's birthplace), I doubt Jean-Luc has given any serious consideration to representing Great Britain. As does Ashley C, Jean-Luc seems fully committed to his U.S.-bred roots.

The logjam looks something like what the Russians have in ladies. But AFAIK, none of the younger teams could change countries to get around the logjam except C/P, and Russia is going to have its own young teams coming up.

I'm afraid of H/B being caught in between the secure elders and the up-and-comers and squushed out of contention. And I really like them a lot, along with C/P.

Yep, as everyone is saying, there seems to be no answer for the U.S. ice dance logjam. I am not entirely certain that the Shibs will decide to return in a year or so. They are certainly young enough and talented enough to do so. It may even be that Hub/Don and Chock/Bates will ultimately decide not to stick around for a full four years just for a chance at another Olympics. Nothing is set in stone. All the younger teams can do is to continue to improve and grow, take full advantage of every opportunity and try to establish solid reputations with the judges they are exposed to in whatever competitions they can get.

The U.S. battles at Nationals will certainly be interesting and entertaining.

 

[Jammers]

^^ Hmmm, that could actually be an interesting opportunity for Jean-Luc, but it would have to be with Kaitlyn and the whole British citizenship prospect for her would take too long. I don't see that type of country switch happening at all, barring possible unforeseen occurrences related to injury and splitting, which is unlikely. H/B are in a good position for the time being IMO of making a case for a solid top three in the U.S. The other young teams just have to concentrate on improving and hoping to break through for one of the top 3 spots somehow, or else setting their sights on an 8-year plan in regard to going for the Olympics. Like Ashley Cain re Australia (her father's birthplace) and Canada (her mother's birthplace), I doubt Jean-Luc has given any serious consideration to representing Great Britain. As does Ashley C, Jean-Luc seems fully committed to his U.S.-bred roots.



Yep, as everyone is saying, there seems to be no answer for the U.S. ice dance logjam. I am not entirely certain that the Shibs will decide to return in a year or so. They are certainly young enough and talented enough to do so. It may even be that Hub/Don and Chock/Bates will ultimately decide not to stick around for a full four years just for a chance at another Olympics. Nothing is set in stone. All the younger teams can do is to continue to improve and grow, take full advantage of every opportunity and try to establish solid reputations with the judges they are exposed to in whatever competitions they can get.

The U.S. battles at Nationals will certainly be interesting and entertaining.

I was really hoping that at least one of the top 3 US teams would retire for this new Olympic cycle. I really don't want to see the same 3 US Ice Dance teams at the Olympics in 2022. C/B have already been to two Olympics and i don't see them getting much better at their age and somehow making the podium in big events anymore.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

I was really hoping that at least one of the top 3 US teams would retire for this new Olympic cycle. I really don't want to see the same 3 US Ice Dance teams at the Olympics in 2022. C/B have already been to two Olympics and i don't see them getting much better at their age and somehow making the podium in big events anymore.

The Shibs have been to two Olympics and have an Olympic medal, so I think of the top three, their retirement would make the most sense.

 

[aftershocks]

I was really hoping that at least one of the top 3 US teams would retire for this new Olympic cycle. I really don't want to see the same 3 US Ice Dance teams at the Olympics in 2022. C/B have already been to two Olympics and i don't see them getting much better at their age and somehow making the podium in big events anymore.

Right. It remains to be seen how Chock/Bates will fare in terms of new programs and their new coaching environment in Montreal. We could be surprised if they are able to effect something new and different for themselves on the ice. I would frankly be more interested in seeing how the Shibs might evolve over another quad than Chock/Bates. Even as much as I love Hub/Don, I wonder how committed they are going to be for another four years, particularly with young up-and-comers knocking on the door from every country.

Hub/Don may be interested in another National championship or two, and more shots at the World podium. However, with Weav/Po, Gilles/Poirier, and the Russians challenging (not to mention sprinting teams from other countries, including Spain, China, et al), it will be important for H/B to maintain their current standing. And C/B may get lost in the mix if they don't grab front and center with something stellar and eye-opening, which is not to say they won't or can't.

 

[VGThuy]

The Shibs have been to two Olympics and have an Olympic medal, so I think of the top three, their retirement would make the most sense.

But age wise, they're younger than the other two teams. Anyway, I don't think any of the top 3 from the last four seasons have to retire for the other teams below to make their move. If one or two or all of the top 3 end up being the top 3 by 2022, that's just the way it crumbles.

 

[chameleonster]

If C/B or H/D or Shibs(assuming they do return) are truly washed up has beens who should just retire already, then I'm sure the younger crop will have no issue getting past them. I'm sure they're all very aware of just how much young, promising talent is ready to replace them. Maybe they're overconfident in their ability to stay ahead, maybe they're not and fans are declaring them obsolete far too early. It's impossible to say at this point.

 

[aftershocks]

The Shibs have been to two Olympics and have an Olympic medal, so I think of the top three, their retirement would make the most sense.

What 'makes sense' for competitive athletes is a matter of personal perspective, not fan perspective. The Shibs certainly seem to be having a lot of fun at the moment, taking a break and indulging in a variety of sponsorship opportunities. They recently posted a vlog about their trip to New York for Fashion Week, photo shoots, attending an evening of U.S. Open tennis competition, chilling with friends and other athletes at sponsor events, celebrating Maia's birthday at a fancy restaurant, and then rushing off happily for a trip to China!

Who knows what awaits the Shibs in the future? I already miss them on the skating scene, but sometimes it's important to weigh investment vs gain in terms of overall perspective, achieved goals, and benefit/downside ratio. If they have a great desire to return to the competitive arena, then they should do so. But, if they feel as if they've checked that competition box and determine that they are satisfied with the amazing goals and accomplishments they've already achieved against tremendous odds, and if they have other substantial and meaningful off-ice opportunities, then they may decide to move on. We can't jump the gun on knowing what their ultimate decision will be.

 

[aftershocks]

If C/B or H/D or Shibs(assuming they do return) are truly washed up has beens who should just retire already, then I'm sure the younger crop will have no issue getting past them.

None of them are 'washed-up has-beens.' But there are realities in terms of age, injury, training costs, motivation, investment of time, fs politics, judges' whims and the tough competitive arena. But of course, sometimes there's just the all-out desire to continue competing because you love doing what you've done for a very long time, and you aren't yet ready to call it quits. It's going to be an individual decision for every skater. And meanwhile, those that stay in the arena have got to be primed for battle. I'm sure they realize that better than any of us fans.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The post you’re quoting noted that C/P are the ones who could in theory change countries.

The quote had the possibility of C/P changing to skate for Russia ("but Russia is going to have its own teams coming up") and missing noted that Canada is also an option.

 

[vireo]

I was really hoping that at least one of the top 3 US teams would retire for this new Olympic cycle. I really don't want to see the same 3 US Ice Dance teams at the Olympics in 2022. C/B have already been to two Olympics and i don't see them getting much better at their age

Yes, Madison Chock just turned 26 six last July, the poor old crone. Guess it's time for her to settle into a rocking chair with a warm shawl and a copy of "The Wisdom of Menopause".

Seriously, the top three US dance teams from the last quad are all still under 30. I don't see the rush to put any of them out to pasture. It's not uncommon for ice dancers to compete into their early thirties.

I think this will be an exciting quad for US ice dancing, precisely because there are so many good teams and anything can happen. The Shibs may return to competition or they may not. H/D and C/B may stick it out through the entire quad or they may not. The younger teams may break through and and best the veterans. Or they may falter.

It will be a tough fight for all these teams.

 

[Dobre]

It will be a tough fight for all these teams.

Crazy-good fact:
If they stay together and continue to compete, by the next Olympiad the current top U.S. teams will have been teams together...

8 years--Carreira & Ponomarenko
10 years--Hawayek & Baker
11 years--Hubbell & Donohue
11 years--Chock & Bates
12 years--The Parsons
16 years--McNamara & Carpenter
18 years--The Shibutanis

 

[Lacey]

I am old fashioned since my 2 girls tested out of ice dancing years ago. I 100 percent think that the ones with the best short (rhythm) and long (free) material given to them will jump to the front, so great choreographers and/'or coaching enters in. To me, the couples w. the best knees and extensions and closest body distance and expression leap for the win. Oh and this wee small thing of being Russian by heritage helps greatly. Since we haven’t yet seen all of the teams, we’ll see. Perhaps it’s because of new judging system this year, I predict more jumping in placements for singles, pairs, and dance than usual for Americans, and that will be refreshing.

 

[her grace]

We have our first head-to-head of the young seniors this weekend with Parsons/Parsons facing Carreria/Ponomarenko at Nebelhorn.

Later in the season we'll see McNamara/Carpenter v. Carreria/Ponomarenko at Finland's Grand Prix. Hawayek/Baker will compete against the Parsons at both of their Grand Prix events. Hawayek/Baker will not compete against the other young American teams until nationals and same for McNamara/Carpenter v. Carreria/Ponomarenko.

 

[angi]

Not sure if this was posted already but Hawayek/Baker are out of Finlandia Trophy, the entries list was updated today. I was really looking forward to watching their new programs, such a shame.

 

[Dobre]

Hawayek/Baker will not compete against the other young American teams until nationals and same for McNamara/Carpenter v. Carreria/Ponomarenko.

If none of these teams make the GPF, USFS could put Hawayek & Baker up against either McNamara & Carpenter or Carreira & Ponomarenko--or even up against both?--at Golden Spin. (USFS put H&B and the Parsons both there last season).

McNamara & Carpenter are likely to get at least one more Challenger. And while I'm not expecting three for every team, it is possible C&P and M&C could get three, as the Parsons did. (Seems like the Asian Open so early could have been an extra event, but it also seems like these young teams are likely to grab their opportunities when they can).

Not sure if this was posted already but Hawayek/Baker are out of Finlandia Trophy, the entries list was updated today. I was really looking forward to watching their new programs, such a shame.

Oh, not good. I was worried something was up. It didn't seem too likely they'd prefer to travel all the way to Finland rather than Canada.

 

[angi]

Oh, not good. I was worried something was up. It didn't seem too likely they'd prefer to travel all the way to Finland rather than Canada.

I assumed they withdrew from ACI because they felt unprepared and since several Gadbois teams are doing Finlandia it made sense that they'll go there. Withdrawing from Finlandia too is worrying, I mean maybe they still feel unprepared and their first GP assignment is only in November, but going into the season with no feedback at all after making a big change is an interesting decision that's for sure...

 

[barbarafan]

Not sure if this was posted already but Hawayek/Baker are out of Finlandia Trophy, the entries list was updated today. I was really looking forward to watching their new programs, such a shame.

Which one of H/B has the injury and what is it?

 

[Dobre]

It's good that they are going up late for both their GP events. Their odds are the best of the young teams for making the post season, but not guaranteed. I don't see them skipping those pre-season world-standing points by choice.

 

[Wyliefan]

Do we know it's an injury? I hope not!

 

[laviemn]

I hope it's not injury, but it's odd that they might feel unprepared. They posted in the middle of June that they just finished their 1st month of training, which means they started in May when the other top Gadbois teams were doing shows or on vacation.

If it isn't injury I wonder if they're making significant changes to their programs for whatever reason.

BTW, I'm pretty sure I read over the summer that H/D said they intend to go to Beijing 2022 and that C/B said they don't know how long they'll compete. I don't remember where though.

 

[barbarafan]

Do we know it's an injury? I hope not!

I am not sure if I read something or not.....They were showing them often on the ice before on instagram and now not which could be any reason.