UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

Foolhardy Ham Lint

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,277
As Tinami Amori mentioned, Orient is used to conjur images of mystery and exoticism. China is only mysterious and exotic to those who don't live there. (It's pretty normal to Chinese people.) A term like that "others" people; it categorizes them as not the norm.
Orser, to my knowledge, is working specifically with the Chinese team, so he will be traveling to China, not Asia in general, so a broad term like "Orient" (where Asia would have been just as descriptive if it was to mean more than just China) doesn't even describe where he is going well.

From my experience working with people from China (which is large in my career field; though obviously can't be representative of the attitude of all Chinese people, just some Chinese statisticians temporarily living in the US)- they tell me the only thing that should be called Oriental is rugs.

In US-English it's been seen as a pejorative for years. Perhaps not so in British-English.

For me, going to Carl's Jnr is mysterious and exotic. Who knows half the time what they put in their food.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,156
It says that the word "Oriental" is considered by some to be pejorative.
Well, "those some" should think for "themselves" and do some research on "why US PC-police" is brainwashing people to ban a certain word, instead of accepting all they hear blindly, like good little Soviet kids in Soviet Schools.

"Orient" IS LATIN for "raising/of the Sun in the East"... so unless one is against a) Latin, b) Sun, c) geographical East... there is NOTHING pejorative about "Orient" or its adjective "Oriental".

======
Jason looks much better with short hair!....:respec:
 

StasiyaGalustyanLove

Banned Member
Messages
423
I do find it charming watching all the liberals here bend over backward to see who can be the most “politically correct”!

-BB
AMEN sister bottoms!

As I always see, any-one knows it is the "mark" of a liberal that he will bend over backwards the second anyone ask's him to do so. Say what you will about Oriental men but that kind of attitude is not excepted in the Orient from my experiences there anyways.
 

Oreo

Well-Known Member
Messages
576
I guess one of the top rated hotels in the world, the Oriental in Bangkok, better shut down or find a new name. The Orient Express is now strictly a no go. Oriental shorthair cats must now become Asian shorthair cats, and from now on I'm going to use more specific provenances for my Oriental carpets--like my Kashmiri carpet or my Turkmen carpet. The word "orient" comes from Latin and means something like the rising sun. Conversely, the "occident" is the sun setting. What's the big deal here?
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,156
I guess one of the top rated hotels in the world, the Oriental in Bangkok, better shut down or find a new name. The Orient Express is now strictly a no go. Oriental shorthair cats must now become Asian shorthair cats, and from now on I'm going to use more specific provenances for my Oriental carpets--like my Kashmiri carpet or my Turkmen carpet. The word "orient" comes from Latin and means something like the rising sun. Conversely, the "occident" is the sun setting. What's the big deal here?

:D..... not to mention many towns, and road signs would have to change in Central and Latin America, as "Oriente" is "East" in Spanish and Portuguese
Poor "Gare do Oriente" in Lisboa.... such as nice station.... :D

oh... and watch out "Oreo", your nick name may soon be on the chopping block..... :rofl:
 

Skittl1321

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,331
Spanish is not the same language as English, and the useage of words is extremely different.
Just let me know when Orser travels to the Occident.

I am well aware of the Latin root words. I took latin for 8 years. But the term is outdated. If you are Chinese and defending the useage, I'll step down; I'm not. But the Chinese and Chinese-Americans I know find the term offensive because it makes their country seem "mystical", which it isn't. The country has a name, and it's China. The continent has a name, and it's Asia. "The Orient" is an outdated term when used to describe these places. Saying Orser will travel to the Orient isn't necessary when other more appropriate, and more specific words say the exact same thing. Being classed as exotic, and otherwise othering people tells them that they don't belong, that they are different from the norm. That's not appropriate, it's not OK to say the norm has to be "western".

There are lots of words we used to say regularly that are no longer a part of general speech.
It's not about being "politically correct", it's about caring what other humans think and how words affect people.

Now I'm going back to focusing on Orser and Brown. You all can argue about speech all you want, but I think it's important to call things out. People don't always change their behavior if they haven't had time to think about it.
 

katmari

Well-Known Member
Messages
542
Thank you! The hair may be gone but that infectious smile is back! I admit I was worried for awhile.

I'm always happy to see Jason's infectious smile too. :)

This was a major change for Jason and I can understand why he is still getting comfortable with it. As I think back on all the young Jason photos he's posted over the years, his hair was never this short. The good news is that now that he's made the plunge, he can try out various lengths / styles until he finds what works best for him.

General rant here:
Length of hair does not equal "maturity" or "becoming an adult".
 
Last edited:

ChiquitaBanana

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,034
Spanish is not the same language as English, and the useage of words is extremely different.
Just let me know when Orser travels to the Occident.

I am well aware of the Latin root words. I took latin for 8 years. But the term is outdated. If you are Chinese and defending the useage, I'll step down; I'm not. But the Chinese and Chinese-Americans I know find the term offensive because it makes their country seem "mystical", which it isn't. The country has a name, and it's China. The continent has a name, and it's Asia. "The Orient" is an outdated term when used to describe these places. Saying Orser will travel to the Orient isn't necessary when other more appropriate, and more specific words say the exact same thing. Being classed as exotic, and otherwise othering people tells them that they don't belong, that they are different from the norm. That's not appropriate, it's not OK to say the norm has to be "western".

There are lots of words we used to say regularly that are no longer a part of general speech.
It's not about being "politically correct", it's about caring what other humans think and how words affect people.

Now I'm going back to focusing on Orser and Brown. You all can argue about speech all you want, but I think it's important to call things out. People don't always change their behavior if they haven't had time to think about it.

I still don't get why you are still debating about the term Orient. We all come from different backgrounds here on FSU and some might use some words others find offensive but in this case clearly the poster didn't mean no harm. We have heard your point, I have learned never to use the term Orient with Chinese people, but you won't be able to change what other people write in here. To each his own life and path...

That is said, Brian is a wise guy and I don't see how he would sacrifice all he has built in Toronto ...
 

Skittl1321

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,331
I still don't get why you are still debating about the term Orient. We all come from different backgrounds here on FSU and some might use some words others find offensive but in this case clearly the poster didn't mean no harm. We have heard your point, I have learned never to use the term Orient with Chinese people, but you won't be able to change what other people write in here. To each his own life and path...

That is said, Brian is a wise guy and I don't see how he would sacrifice all he has built in Toronto ...

I responded once to the debate about it- it's not like I'm replying to every single post. So the "still debating it" is kind of a strange way to put it. You're responding makes it sound like I'm continually writing about this. I didn't respond to any of it yesterday, and actually posted about Orser in the meantime. I was surprised to wake up and see more on it- and at least one of them seemed worth replying to, the defense of the word in Spanish, which has absolutely nothing to do with what was said, or what I brought up. It's an entirely different language.

I'm responding to you because there are times when people do change what they write. I know I've stopped using words I had in the past because people pointed out to me how they can be taken. Words other people still use, but I agree with those who told me they weren't appropriate. I even mentioned that possibly in the UK it's fine, but my understanding is the poster who originally said it is from the US. Again, maybe I remembered wrong- as there are lots of posters here.
 

layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
604
Was that so freakin' hard, Jason!

Now get rid of those overly dramatic expressions and postures, and start to JUMP!

... Maybe his former coach overly indulged his childishness because they were together too long.
And is it too much to ask that the arms (which tend to flail too much) and "jazz" hands be toned down too?
 

Skittl1321

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,331
And is it too much to ask that the arms (which tend to flail too much) and "jazz" hands be toned down too?

I'd love to see a bit more control of the arms. But if he likes the jazz hand choreo, and it makes sense- I like that his style is more happy-go lucky.

I like "show style" skating in competition, as long as all the elements still get in.
I don't want to see everyone doing the same thing all the time.
 

Yazmeen

All we are saying, is give peace a chance
Messages
5,835
I like "show style" skating in competition, as long as all the elements still get in.
I don't want to see everyone doing the same thing all the time.

THIS. One of my biggest complaints about IJS and the ever changing rules is that so many programs look alike and we've lost some of the beautiful elements of skating (read: spirals).
 

layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
604
THIS. One of my biggest complaints about IJS and the ever changing rules is that so many programs look alike and we've lost some of the beautiful elements of skating (read: spirals).
I don't see jazz hands as a "beautiful element." I think there should be a one point deduction every time they are used in a program.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,639
THIS. One of my biggest complaints about IJS and the ever changing rules is that so many programs look alike and we've lost some of the beautiful elements of skating (read: spirals).

But don't forget the painful years where we were subjected to mandatory groups of 3 second spirals or a 6 second spiral or formerly the levelled spiral sequence in the ladies programmes :yikes: they were my fastforward fodder.
 

Skittl1321

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,331
I don't see jazz hands as a "beautiful element." I think there should be a one point deduction every time they are used in a program.

Well they aren't a beautiful element necessarily, and they wouldn't belong everywhere, but there are certain types of programs they work great in.
I mean, how can one do Fosse without the jazz hand, for example?
 

layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
604
Well they aren't a beautiful element necessarily, and they wouldn't belong everywhere, but there are certain types of programs they work great in.
I mean, how can one do Fosse without the jazz hand, for example?
Has Jason ever skated to Fosse?

He seems to put jazz hands into every program though.
 

Skittl1321

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,331
Has Jason ever skated to Fosse?

He seems to put jazz hands into every program though.

No, Jason hasn't skated to Fosse- the point was that jazz hands have great use. And in many of Jason's programs with a bit more cheese they match the tone of the program.

Nor does he do jazz hands in every program. They aren't in his more lyrical programs. Unless you just define jazz hands an open hand with fingers spread. Then most skaters do that while doing crossovers.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information