UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

4rkidz said:
I think Jason benefit from the team approach with Orsers camp and I like the makeover. Unfortunately for the Toronto crew they will have less of Brian as he is not just Coaching Boyang but Team China..considering the distance and competition season that means less time.
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Well, since we don’t know when or how frequently Brian will go to China, it’s not a foregone conclusion TCC will be badly affected.
 
I find it hard to believe Brian is going to abandon the rest of his skaters who are at TCC to go to China a lot. I expect the "impact" will be minimal. He's got some great talent at his rink, he's shown he knows what he's doing. He has nothing to "prove" by flying to China to coach a skater with so so results. I think there will be minimal in person coaching of Boyang
 
Carolla5501 said:
I find it hard to believe Brian is going to abandon the rest of his skaters who are at TCC to go to China a lot. I expect the "impact" will be minimal. He's got some great talent at his rink, he's shown he knows what he's doing. He has nothing to "prove" by flying to China to coach a skater with so so results. I think there will be minimal in person coaching of Boyang
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He may also be combining the trips with competitions in the Orient where he stays after for a week or two. As for identifying talent maybe he will be sent vids of kids and choose certain ones to work with when he goes over.He may have proposed various ideas to the Federation of ways he can help. Brian will never short change anyone.
 
barbarafan said:
He may also be combining the trips with competitions in the Orient where he stays after for a week or two. As for identifying talent maybe he will be sent vids of kids and choose certain ones to work with when he goes over.He may have proposed various ideas to the Federation of ways he can help. Brian will never short change anyone.
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Is his whole team working with them or just him? And was it announced specifically that he would work with them in China or is it possible that the top skaters (at least) will periodically come to him?
 
Skittl1321 said:
The Orient? :rolleyes:
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Orient is a beautiful word for the Continent of Asia..... it has associations with Art, Design, Travel and Adventure, Great Architecture, Mythology and Fables, Exotic Beauty of all sorts.....
There were articles in Discover Magazine, "Mysteries of the Orient", and few books with same terms in the title.
http://discovermagazine.com/1993/apr/mysteriesoftheor200
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/4179667/The-mysteries-of-the-Orient.html
https://www.amazon.com/Mysteries-Orient-Jadoo-John-Keel/dp/1541210085
https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Daily-Life-Enlightenment-Illuminated/dp/1585425834

Oriental Art is a formal classification in many famous Museums and Galleries.
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/wps/portal/hermitage/explore/collections/master/1251499798
https://www.sfstation.com/oriental-art-gallery-b303

:mitchell: "Orient"! it's a beautiful romantic word...... geezzz.......
 
Tavi said:
Well, since we don’t know when or how frequently Brian will go to China, it’s not a foregone conclusion TCC will be badly affected.
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Yes that is true and like others said he might be able to combine it with comps in Asia. Fortunately it is a good team of coaches he leaves behind who can reinforce his coaching methodology so I'm sure impact will hopefully be minimal.
 
Daleman will be at NHK. So will Li and Peng/Jin. (And Dance team Wang/Liu.) Hanyu and Jin are assigned to Helsinki the week before, as are Li/Xie. I don't see anyone he'd need to be in Russia for the week after, so maybe he'd have time to go from Japan to China and then head to France for Medvedeva and Brown.
 
soogar said:
I'm kind of confused with the offense of using "Orient" to describe a location. It refers to "East" and the poster was referring to a region and not a person.
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As Tinami Amori mentioned, Orient is used to conjur images of mystery and exoticism. China is only mysterious and exotic to those who don't live there. (It's pretty normal to Chinese people.) A term like that "others" people; it categorizes them as not the norm.
Orser, to my knowledge, is working specifically with the Chinese team, so he will be traveling to China, not Asia in general, so a broad term like "Orient" (where Asia would have been just as descriptive if it was to mean more than just China) doesn't even describe where he is going well.

From my experience working with people from China (which is large in my career field; though obviously can't be representative of the attitude of all Chinese people, just some Chinese statisticians temporarily living in the US)- they tell me the only thing that should be called Oriental is rugs.

In US-English it's been seen as a pejorative for years. Perhaps not so in British-English.
 
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soogar said:
I'm kind of confused with the offense of using "Orient" to describe a location. It refers to "East" and the poster was referring to a region and not a person.
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I tuly meant to write Asia which is usually used in figure skating. I don't think it was taken as offensive...just weird. I suffered a huge brain fog a few yrs ago although I am much better I still look at what I wrote often enough not having any idea why I put it. At least I am not making multiple trips to the kitchen and not knowing why I was going there when I arrive. That is much more annoying.
 
Skittl1321 said:
As Tinami Amori mentioned, Orient is used to conjur images of mystery and exoticism. China is only mysterious and exotic to those who don't live there. (It's pretty normal to Chinese people.) A term like that "others" people; it categorizes them as not the norm.
Orser, to my knowledge, is working specifically with the Chinese team, so he will be traveling to China, not Asia in general, so a broad term like "Orient" (where Asia would have been just as descriptive if it was to mean more than just China) doesn't even describe where he is going well.

From my experience working with people from China (which is large in my career field; though obviously can't be representative of the attitude of all Chinese people, just Chinese statisticians temporarily living in the US)- they tell me the only thing that should be called Oriental is rugs.

In US-English it's been seen as a pejorative for years. Perhaps not so in British-English.
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Anywhere close to China would be a viable visit. It is a 13hr flight from Canada.
 
I think his visits will be very sporadic - maybe he'll be doing bi-monthly seminars or something with the national team
 
I remember when Brian Orser started coaching world competitors. I don't recall the exact details but he was already committed to coaching adult recreational skaters and had to miss some major competition with his new, more famous students to go with the adults to their competition. I was very moved/ impressed by that - that he stuck with these adult skaters and his commitment to them and I feel like this is a good example of how he is careful to honour his commitments even in the face of new and exciting opportunities.
 
Skittl1321 said:
In US-English it's been seen as a pejorative for years.
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Has it? By whom?

"Oriental" may be pejorative when referring to a person (it's certainly outdated), but not when referring to a pearl or a rug. But "Orient"? Merriam Webster calls it "archaic": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orient. And so it is. But to call someone out (with a rolling eyes emoticon, no less) for using it as a pejorative term is unwarranted.

Is the term "Middle East" pejorative too?
 
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Vagabond said:
Has it? By whom?

"Oriental" may be pejorative when referring to a person (it's certainly outdated), but not when referring to a pearl or a rug. But "Orient"? Merriam Webster calls it "archaic": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orient. And so it is. But to call someone out (with a rolling eyes emoticon, no less) for using it as a pejorative term is unwarranted.

Is the term "Middle East" pejorative too?
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I have mainly heard the ideas that @Skittl1321 mentions in academia, especially in comparative literature circles. At my pretentious university, there was a lot of learned discourse on exoticism and otherness. ;)

Wikipedia is not always accurate, but according to this article, the term “Orient” is considered pejorative in America but not necessarily in other places. Here’s a link and an excerpt:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

Distinct within American culture, some American English speakers consider the term "Oriental" to be an pejorative and disparaging term when used to describe a person[10]. John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in the U.S. in the 1970s. Tchen has said: "With the U.S.A. anti-war movement in the '60s and early '70s, many Asian Americans identified the term 'Oriental' with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite 'others'."[11] In a 2009 American press release related to legislation aimed at removing the term "oriental" from official documents of the State of New York, Governor David Paterson said: "The word 'oriental' does not describe ethnic origin, background or even race; in fact, it has deep and demeaning historical roots".[12]

In 2016, President Barack Obama signed legislation striking the word from federal law.
 
The Accordion said:
I remember when Brian Orser started coaching world competitors. I don't recall the exact details but he was already committed to coaching adult recreational skaters and had to miss some major competition with his new, more famous students to go with the adults to their competition. I was very moved/ impressed by that - that he stuck with these adult skaters and his commitment to them...
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YES, I remember that because, speaking as an adult skater, it made me like Brian even more than I already did!! I believe it was after Adam Rippon moved to the Cricket, and Brian didn't go to U.S. Nationals with Adam that January because of his previous commitment with his adult skaters.
 
Brian Orser co-coaches with Tracy Wilson. They share coaching duties and coordinate their travel accordingly. (They also have a whole team of Senior coaches, trainers, choreographers and other professionals to help them out). IRC it was actually Tracy who recommended they accept Jason as a student in the first place. Brian and Tracy know what they are doing and their students have the medals to prove it. Jason will be fine.
 
IMO one of the best things about the Cricket Club is that it's such a team environment. Brian is usually credited as the head coach, but Tracy helps run the place. We just don't see her as often in the K&C because of her commentary duties, but I feel like we've been seeing her more often. Plus Lee Barkell, who has experience with world champions, and Ghislain Briand who's been in the K&C a few times, and also used to coach at Mariposa at the same time as Lee.
 
Tavi said:
Wikipedia is not always accurate, but according to this article, the term is considered pejorative in America but not necessarily in other places. Here’s a link and an excerpt:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

Distinct within American culture, some American English speakers consider the term "Oriental" to be an pejorative and disparaging term when used to describe a person[10]. John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in the U.S. in the 1970s. Tchen has said: "With the U.S.A. anti-war movement in the '60s and early '70s, many Asian Americans identified the term 'Oriental' with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite 'others'."[11] In a 2009 American press release related to legislation aimed at removing the term "oriental" from official documents of the State of New York, Governor David Paterson said: "The word 'oriental' does not describe ethnic origin, background or even race; in fact, it has deep and demeaning historical roots"
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Did you even bother to read what you copied before you hit the "Post reply" button? It says that the word "Oriental" is considered by some to be pejorative. It does not say any such thing with regard to the word "Orient." :COP:
 
Vagabond said:
Did you even bother to read what you copied before you hit the "Post reply" button? It says that the word "Oriental" is considered by some to be pejorative. It does not say any such thing with regard to the word "Orient." :COP:
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Yeah, I guess I did read too fast. But I don’t think your incredible rudeness was called for.
 
Tavi said:
Yeah, I guess I did read too fast. But I don’t think your incredible rudeness was called for.
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Skittl1321's rudeness, which you defended, may have prompted me to be a bit harsher than necessary. Still, if you aren't prepared to get flamed for blindly posting things that you cannot support, perhaps this isn't the right forum for you.
 
Vagabond said:
Skittl1321's rudeness, which you defended, may have prompted me to be a bit harsher than necessary. Still, if you aren't prepared to get flamed for blindly posting things that you cannot support, perhaps this isn't the right forum for you.
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I’m not sure what made you think I was defending anything skittle said but I wasn’t defending anyone or for that matter criticizing barbafan’s use of the word “Orient.” And I personally have no issue with use of the term “oriental” despite the fact that I live in the US and speak American English.

As to the rest of your post, you mistake me if you think I’m sitting here crying in a bathroom over your rudeness. But that doesn’t mean I won’t call it out.
 
The Accordion said:
I remember when Brian Orser started coaching world competitors. I don't recall the exact details but he was already committed to coaching adult recreational skaters and had to miss some major competition with his new, more famous students to go with the adults to their competition. I was very moved/ impressed by that - that he stuck with these adult skaters and his commitment to them and I feel like this is a good example of how he is careful to honour his commitments even in the face of new and exciting opportunities.
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I remember when this happened (I actually though it was a long planned adult trip to the Rideau Canal that he missed something with Yuna for, but my memory might be mistaken and sadly, Icenetwork where I think I read it is no longer available.)
I thought it showed a lot of integrity for him to stick with his commitment.
 
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