Royalty Thread #7: Do They Get Frequent Flier Miles?

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Well this has answered the comment someone said way earlier in this thread about how Meghan would have to be on hand to meet tRump as she is American- apparently only QEII has had tea with him and Melania (sp?) - no other members of the royal family were included!!
 
Kate's official title is Catherine, HRH the Duchess of Cambridge. So she would be addressed with HRH. William's dukedom is a Royal Peerage. A duchess not married into the family to a prince would correctly be "your grace" as they would have only a peerage not a royal peerage.

It's all quite complex.

Meghan and Kate are not Duchess first name, though. Both are First name, HRH Duchess of... They are also Princess Henry (Harry) and Princess William respectively. Think of it as similar to the fading usage of Mrs. John Smith. They are not princesses in their own right because they are not blood princesses. Diana was not either and her proper title was Diana, Princess of Wales or Princess Charles. That is also Camilla's title, in spite of it not being used.

Actually, their first names don't appear in their official titles at all. They are HRH The Princess William/Henry, Duchess of Cambridge/Sussex (Countess of Wherever, Lady Whatever, etc.). Or more usually HRH The Duchess of Cambridge/Sussex. Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, is the styling of the Dowager (i.e. setting aside the other titles for a moment and the whole will be king part, if William was a regular duke and he died and their son was married, the son and his wife would be The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, and Kate, as the Dowager/William's widow, would become Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge or the Dowager Duchess of Cambridge). The First name, Duchess of X styling is also now used for divorced women, and it was the compromise they came up with for Diana after her divorce from Charles -- she was no longer HRH the Princess of Wales, but Diana, Princess of Wales.

Using first names is not even correct when referring to male members of the family -- it shouldn't be Prince William, it should be HRH The Duke of Cambridge. Official communication from the royal family will always refer to him this way. Prince Firstname is only for a member of the royal family who doesn't have another title (see Prince Michael of Kent, for example).
 
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I find it less annoying when American media does the Duchess Kate thing than UK media; because none of the rules of the monarchy apply in the US. Any title they are given here is merely courtesy.

I think the useage of their last names is because they no longer have a last name. First names are relatable but a headline that says "Meghan stuns at charity event"- Meghan who? Of course, she might still be Meghan Markle. Does she have a UK passport yet? Could she change it to "Meghan, Duchess of Sussex" if she is on a US one?

I don't think the UK media do Duchess Kate or Duchess Meghan - they seem to stick with either the Duchess of Cambridge or Kate Middleton. It is more the US media that does Duchess Kate or Duchess Meghan and good manners deems you get their title right and the manner of addressing them regardless of whether rules of monarchy apply - just good manners - that's all.

Meghan is not yet a UK citizen so does not yet have a UK passport. Though the question is do the royals even have passports? I've never seen the Queen pass through passport control!!
 
Well this has answered the comment someone said way earlier in this thread about how Meghan would have to be on hand to meet tRump as she is American- apparently only QEII has had tea with him and Melania (sp?) - no other members of the royal family were included!!

I would have bet money on Meghan not being there. And not a single whiff of objections to her not being there either from the press or commenters around social media.

To prove my ability to be an equal opportunity critic of public figures whose clothes need properly tailored: what in the ever loving hell is going on with Melania's skirt? Nice idea, nice understated choice of color, and then.....butt cheeks perfectly outlined. Yuck.
 
It would be nice to think that everyone is just doing as Amal wishes, but I think the likelier reality is that Clooney is a lot easier to pronounce, spell and remember than Alamuddin. Plus, as accomplished as she is, he's the one with the household name.
She uses Clooney on the website for the law firm she is associated with (https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/profile/amal-clooney) and in her publications. I think it's her choice (which I admit I am much easier with than thinking that the media just calls her by her husband's last name because it's easier, which was my initial assumption).
 
I think the press intentionally continues to refer to Kate and Meghan in that way because they're more "relatable" that way. Many readers are likely to identify more with the commoner or the American who married into the British royal family than with their current, more remote identities as "Duchess of" this or that. I'm not saying any of this is correct usage; I'm just explaining why I think they do use it.
I wonder how much of the mistakes with the names is because they were both commoners. If either had come with a Title, I would think the change over would have been easy.
 
She uses Clooney on the website for the law firm she is associated with (https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/barristers/profile/amal-clooney) and in her publications. I think it's her choice (which I admit I am much easier with than thinking that the media just calls her by her husband's last name because it's easier, which was my initial assumption).

Oh I'm not disputing it was her choice, she certainly doesn't seem like the type of woman who would do anything she doesn't want to :)

My point was in response to the post that said that the public has easily embraced her name change, and I'm saying it's likely less about respecting her wishes and more about how much easier it is for the public to say, spell and remember, plus it's George Clooney after all.
 
I would have bet money on Meghan not being there. And not a single whiff of objections to her not being there either from the press or commenters around social media.

To prove my ability to be an equal opportunity critic of public figures whose clothes need properly tailored: what in the ever loving hell is going on with Melania's skirt? Nice idea, nice understated choice of color, and then.....butt cheeks perfectly outlined. Yuck.

I agree on both points - I could never understand why the poster - and I can't remember their name - was so convinced Meghan would be there - nothing anyone said would dissuade them from their belief.

And my Mom texted me exactly what you said regarding Melania - way to tight across her butt there!!!
 
And my Mom texted me exactly what you said regarding Melania - way to tight across her butt there!!!

If we had ever got that much exposure of Michelle Obama's butt cheeks, some GOP Congressman would have demanded an investigation and Franklin Graham would have labeled it porn. And it would literally still be a talking point for the Far Right today. But, hey, whatever.
 
Oh I'm not disputing it was her choice, she certainly doesn't seem like the type of woman who would do anything she doesn't want to :)

My point was in response to the post that said that the public has easily embraced her name change, and I'm saying it's likely less about respecting her wishes and more about how much easier it is for the public to say, spell and remember, plus it's George Clooney after all.

Ah, yes, you're very right about it being more likely people will call her by her preferred name when it's easier for them to remember.

And I agree with your previous point about how the media continuing to call Kate and Meghan by their pre-royal last names is all about search engine optimization. And laziness. :)
 
And I agree with your previous point about how the media continuing to call Kate and Meghan by their pre-royal last names is all about search engine optimization. And laziness. :)

Or maybe the media realizes how sexist and antiquated it sounds to refer to them as Princess Harry and Princess William?
 
Or maybe the media realizes how sexist and antiquated it sounds to refer to them as Princess Harry and Princess William?
Except those are not the correct titles to use in their case. They're the Duchess of Sussex and the Duchess of Cambridge. Just as nobody calls Sophie Wessex "Princess Edward", either.

I believe that Princess Michael of Kent is the only woman in the (extended) royal family currently referred to by her husband's name, since he does not have another title.

Other royal families do things differently: Sofia Helquvist, who married into the Swedish royal family, is now Princess Sofia, and also has her husband's ducal title (she's Duchess of Värmland). When Marie Cavallier married Prince Joachim of Denmark, she became Princess Marie, not Princess Joachim (she also has the title Countess of Monpezat, which the Danish royals inherited from the late Prince Henrik).
 
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I don't think the UK media do Duchess Kate or Duchess Meghan - they seem to stick with either the Duchess of Cambridge or Kate Middleton. It is more the US media that does Duchess Kate or Duchess Meghan and good manners deems you get their title right and the manner of addressing them regardless of whether rules of monarchy apply - just good manners - that's all.

Meghan is not yet a UK citizen so does not yet have a UK passport. Though the question is do the royals even have passports? I've never seen the Queen pass through passport control!!

Everyone but the Queen has one.
https://www.royal.uk/passports

I know it took me a few years to change my name after marriage. Since Meghan is anticipating changing citizenship, she might not have changed her US documentation yet; so she might officially still be Meghan Markle here.
 
Well this has answered the comment someone said way earlier in this thread...

It was @Frida80 who insisted that Meghan, Duchess of Sussex must do her duty and meet with Trump. :rolleyes: That was never going to happen, especially with Meghan & Harry having just returned from their Ireland trip, and the courtesy visit taking place at Windsor Castle.

I also suspected it would only be the Queen who would take on the glum task, and she's clearly doing it out of courtesy and respect for the Office of U.S. presidency. That's it. Prince Philip is retired from public duties. He was present when the Queen met with President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama in what seems like aeons ago. How lowly and far we Americans have now fallen as a nation.
 
As far as all the discussion about the correct way to address British royals with titles, it's always going to be confusing (perhaps not to those ooh so in the know about such officially hoity-toity matters). ;) I never understood why back-in-the-day royalty had to be given five or six first names, when they are mainly known and called only by their very first name preceded by Prince or whatever. :drama: Kudos to the younger British royals for cutting down the given name nonsense to only three names, rather than the four Prince Charles holds. And even three is too many. But at least it allows them to get in all those very important royal names that simply must be passed on. :COP: Funnily enough, Prince George and his younger brother share the name, 'Louis' as one of their names. Oops. Oh well, I do hope both weren't named in honor of the not-so-dearly departed Lord Louis Mountbatten, but they might be.

Thanks for the 'proper British royal titles usage' discussion in any case. It's all endlessly fascinating. I do love the ring of all the titles Meghan and Harry now hold. But what's the use of having all those titles if they are actually rarely going to be used. :drama: So pretentious. Oh but right, royal status requires them to carry on all the ancient pomp and circumstance, and to show how privileged and important the British monarchy is. The media is never going to adhere to royal protocol. And frankly, it doesn't matter if 'Duchess Meghan' and 'Duchess Kate' references grate to anyone on an Internet forum. :blah: Anyway, if being proper is so at stake, Kate shouldn't be referred to as Kate at all (much less Middleton). Her full given name is supposed to be referenced. Although, I wonder what her mother calls her. :p Anyway, despite my respect for them and their enviable stature, I'm not going to type out the Duchess of Sussex and the Duchess of Cambridge every time I wish to reference these fab ladies on FSU. :glamor:

All this title shizz reminds me of something I read around the time of the recent royal wedding. The morning of the wedding when some of Meghan's friends were assisting her with preparations, someone asked, "Oh, what must we call you now, 'Duchess?'" Reportedly, the newly named Duchess of Sussex smiled and said, "I'm still Meghan." Oh well, it's early days yet, and she'll get used to people bowing and curtseying and tripping their tongues over what to call her. Although, I'm sure many in the crowds of people who greet her will still call her 'Meghan,' or 'Duchess Meghan.' :)

After the announcement of their new titles on the day of their wedding, the Duke and Duchess of 'Sexy Success' :DWiki immediately change their names to the 'Duke of Sussex' and the 'Duchess of Sussex.' Many regular people searching under the couple's former names complained, and so Wiki quickly revised the look-up status to 'Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex' and 'Meghan, Duchess of Sussex.'

The more interesting suspense down the road will be whether or not Prince Harry and his dear wife are gonna want to saddle any of their anticipated offspring with the 'Prince' or 'Princess' designation. Obviously, royal kids can be privy to a lot of ribbing from their peers growing up, walking around as a Prince or a Princess. While I wouldn't have any qualms about Princess Charlotte keeping anyone in their place :kickass:, we do know that Prince George's parents decided he will be referred to as simply 'George Cambridge' at his current school. That's probably the best thing to do for children who are at a very young age. That's a critical time when they are trying to make friends and fit in, and make sense of the world they are living in.

Prince Harry struggled, particularly in his later adolescence and early 20s with his royal status, according to his own admission, as well as it being mentioned in biographies and documentaries. Obviously, Harry has grown out of that angst and fully embraced his heritage. Still, will he and Meghan decide to have their children take the usual titles given to the offspring of an Earl, e.g., the titles that Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex's children hold (Lady Louise & James, Viscount Severn)? Or, maybe it's possible the Queen will allow Prince Harry's prospective children to be given 'Prince' and 'Princess' titles upon birth, unless the Duke & Duchess of Sussex decline. Once Prince Charles inherits the throne, Harry's children would automatically have the right to be titled 'Prince/Princess.' However, perhaps a permanent decision will be made in advance of the birth of their first child. I'm thinking that Harry and Meghan may wish to wait until sometime next year before starting a family.
 
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It can't be too surprising that in a thread about royalty, people will be knowledgeable about royalty - including the correct usage of titles. With family and friends, royals presumably go by their first names or nicknames. Some wives of peers, including royal ones, might go (informally) by First Name & Husband's Title (e.g., "Sophie Wessex", though I don't know if she actually does that). This is similar to the names sometimes used for royal kids who do not have their own title (e.g., "Harry Wales" when he was in the military).

I'm not sure why it's so challenging and time-consuming to type a correct title than an incorrect one; it's not like this is what will make a post too long. But to each their own.
 
Is anyone surprised that Trump insulted the Queen? Clueless bastard. It's an embarrassment that we have to claim him.

Apparently he has a protocol expert travelling with him - or should have as previous Presidents did - who keeps him informed of local customs and protocols and one of the American commentators on BBC news believes that the last thing Trump would have been told before meeting the Queen is to walk that half step behind her. He clearly can't or won't listen to anyone but what do you expect from a total narcissist.

This is brilliant from the Daily Mashup

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/
 
Is someone here going to explain why it is wonderful and amazing that Meghan's pant at Wimbledon today are so long they are pooling at the bottom and dragging on the ground?

Not to mention the ill fitting shirt. What is with that woman and clothes two sizes too big???
 
I must admit all I could think when I saw the Duchess of Sussex's trousers was - who wears white trousers that drag on the floor - they will be filthy when she gets home!! I did like her combo however- and liked the fit of the trousers at the waist and I actually like the looseness of the shirt!! Chic and casual suits her.

And The Duchess of Cambridge looks lovely in her lovely dress - she has such an effortless style and carries herself so well!!
 
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I was at a swing dance last night where one of the female dancers in charge of the event wore pants just like that. To dance in! I swear I don't know how it's possible!
 
Maybe those pants were hemmed for a higher heel but she wore other shoes instead. IDK

Re Trump: he treated the Queen the way he treats his wife. It's not so much it was the Queen - as an American he doesn't HAVE to walk a step behind - but it was like he was totally oblivious to the fact that someone was with him. Maybe he thinks it's ok because Melania allows that boorish behavior.
 
Maybe those pants were hemmed for a higher heel but she wore other shoes instead. IDK

Re Trump: he treated the Queen the way he treats his wife. It's not so much it was the Queen - as an American he doesn't HAVE to walk a step behind - but it was like he was totally oblivious to the fact that someone was with him. Maybe he thinks it's ok because Melania allows that boorish behavior.

But as the old adage goes ' When in Rome …..'. It was basic good manners to respect the Queen and her position whilst a guest in her country. But this boorish man has zero manners - as we all know!!

Honestly the argument 'I'm an American - I don't have to follow your rules' is a really poor argument!!
 
Is someone here going to explain why it is wonderful and amazing that Meghan's pant at Wimbledon today are so long they are pooling at the bottom and dragging on the ground?

Not to mention the ill fitting shirt. What is with that woman and clothes two sizes too big???
One could ask what fuels your seeming obsession with posting about her.
 
Heresy, I know:

I preferred the Duchess of Sussex' attire today, (more appropriate to a sporting event) to that of the Duchess of Cambridge. I'm aware that the DoC is expected to dress more formally/conservatively at these functions.

I admire Meghan for attempting to find a style of her own, within the strictures and requirements of her new position, even if some don't approve.
She has done well, thus far; and will grow more comfortable with her role/choices, over time.
 
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