UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

[AxelAnnie]

As others have pointed out, they did get an Olympic medal. Team members certainly are seen as Olympic medalists - because they are Olympic medalists.

I suppose one might argue that an individual medal has more meaning than a team medal because the members of a team may not all deliver equally strong performances. If skaters in three of the disciplines deliver, but the skater/skaters in the fourth does not/do not, the team could still win Gold. But it can go the other away as well - one poor performance can mean a team does not medal.

But I don't know whether a team medal means any less to skaters than an individual medal. As I posted previously in this thread or another, Patrick Chan said the Canadian skaters who participated in the team event in 2014 made a pact to win Gold in 2018. Team Canada was rather ecstatic about their gold medal.

I can promise you that is does mean less to the athletes. The Team Medals will always have an asterisk.

 

[berthesghost]

I can promise you that is does mean less to the athletes. The Team Medals will always have an asterisk.

I’m sure that it means all different things to all different athletes. But I do think it means less to everyone else, but that’s apparently just because Kwan wuz robbed of team bronze in 98 and 02
Seriously, no one’s sitting in a board room going “who should we get to endorse our product? How about what’s his name, the 3rd of 4 guys on that relay team”. None of us would even know Phelps name if he didn’t have individual gold medals. Trust. But I’m sure those others guys on the relay team, whoever they were, cherish those medals.

 

[Carolla5501]

I can promise you that is does mean less to the athletes. The Team Medals will always have an asterisk.

To you apparently

Having seen the athletes reaction and pride I don't think it means that much less to a lot of them.

Too bad you can celebrate their achievements instead of trash talking so you feel important! (But we all know that they have one more Olympic medal that any trash talker in this thread LOL!)

 

[kwanfan1818]

None of us would even know Phelps name if he didn’t have individual gold medals. Trust. But I’m sure those others guys on the relay team, whoever they were, cherish those medals.

And Phelps wouldn't have the tally he has without those other guys, whoever they were.

ETA: I've never seen an article that said, "Phelps, winner of 28 Olympic medals, 23 of them gold*

"*Only 13 of them were individual, though, so maybe you should deduct the rest from his count."

 

[Yazmeen]

I can promise you that is does mean less to the athletes. The Team Medals will always have an asterisk.

*And I'm especially proud to have won this medal as part of our team.

**And I'm enjoying rubbing my medal in the faces of the fans who don't consider the team event to be a "real" event with "real" medals. Knowing how much this bugs them makes my medal EXTRA special.

 

[aftershocks]

I can promise you that is does mean less to the athletes. The Team Medals will always have an asterisk.

Whoa, I think it depends on the circumstances and the athlete. You should probably take a survey before stating that out of hand. Just because an individual Olympic medal might feel a bit more special, because it's even more difficult to acquire, does not make a Team medal less meaningful to every athlete! That Team Gold for each Canadian athlete is well, a Team OGM, a gold medal at the Olympics, yeah! And they did it together after making a vow together in 2014. Can't beat that!

I'll bet all fs athletes who strive just to make the Olympics ain't about to turn their noses up at a Team Olympic medal. Teams Japan, China, Italy, France, et al would love to have copped one, eh! This team event in fs at the Olympics is still fairly new, but that doesn't mean all athletes necessarily value it less. Everybody can't make the team event either. Ask the athletes left off the team event how they feel about not having the chance to win a team medal.

ETA:
I'm gonna bet that Michael Phelps is equally proud of all of his Olympic Team relay medals because it required a team effort and they all had to do their share to win those medals together! I recall U.S. guys really not wanting to lose at the last Olympics in a relay event to a tough competitive nation that was favored, and the U.S. guys came through by milliseconds. It was exciting for the guys on that relay team, let me tell you. And the audience was thrilled too, especially the Americans from the U.S. cheering for the guys throughout that nailbiting race.

 

[aftershocks]

Crossposting from TSL thread in Trash Can:

Everyone's going to Brian Orser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgO_N4D3qRw

Oh boy, I enjoy any kind of figure skating coverage, but this episode is a hot mess and 'a little extra,' as Dave would say, but not ever about himself and Jonathan.

I don't disagree with everything they say. It's entertaining to a degree, but just as equally annoying with some of their know-it-all utterances (kinda boring in the beginning and at the 55 min mark). And of course their more provocative gossip-laced takes are a bit much -- it's very obvious who they dislike. The idea that Jonathan thinks he & Dave 'convinced' Jason Brown to switch coaches is so it isn't even funny.

Part of what's wrong with the sport is the half-assed notion (proven true by clueless ISU-judging, fs politics, and the scoring system) that quads are the end-all, be-all. I'm so frickin' tired of that ass-backward state of affairs among the men.

Dave with a smirk pronouncing that JB has 18 months and that's it if he doesn't get the quad. I wonder how long you have Dave, before it's all over.

JB can do quads, it's just about reworking his technique to achieve mastery and consistency, which breeds confidence. And the other part of that is the mental strategy needed for competitions, and the fact that quad-laced programs can take something away from fully realizing an artistically satisfying performance.

ETA:
If true, it is interesting about Meagan Duhamel planning to help Josee Picard with coaching Julianne Seguin & Charlie Bilodeau.

Sadly, I do have to agree with Dave's contention at the end of the broadcast that there are a lot of 'useless overwrought admin types' hanging around taking up space in the sport. That's obvious from just watching some of the ISU Congress livestream. Cool that they are livestreaming, but some of the display of ineptness is striking.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Crossposting from TSL thread in Trash Can:

Everyone's going to Brian Orser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgO_N4D3qRw

Oh boy, I enjoy any kind of figure skating coverage, but this episode is a hot mess and 'a little extra,' as Dave would say, but not ever about himself and Jonathan.

I don't disagree with everything they say. It's entertaining to a degree, but just as equally annoying with some of their know-it-all utterances (kinda boring in the beginning and at the 55 min mark). And of course their more provocative gossip-laced takes are a bit much -- it's very obvious who they dislike. The idea that Jonathan thinks he & Dave 'convinced' Jason Brown to switch coaches is so it isn't even funny.

Part of what's wrong with the sport is the half-assed notion (proven true by clueless ISU-judging, fs politics, and the scoring system) that quads are the end-all, be-all. I'm so frickin' tired of that ass-backward state of affairs among the men.

Dave with a smirk pronouncing that JB has 18 months and that's it if he doesn't get the quad. I wonder how long you have Dave, before it's all over.

JB can do quads, it's just about reworking his technique to achieve mastery and consistency, which breeds confidence. And the other part of that is the mental strategy needed for competitions, and the fact that quad-laced programs can take something away from fully realizing an artistically satisfying performance.

Men overall have superior skating skills compared to ladies. Quads are an integral part of men's skating, just as triples were, just as doubles were, just as singles were.

 

[aftershocks]

Men overall have superior skating skills compared to ladies. Quads are an integral part of men's skating, just as triples were, just as doubles were, just as singles were.

No doubt re quads over-importance to men's skating at this juncture, but TPTB flubbed it with the overall development of quads. The ISU and the federations failed to understand the sea change that quads represented early enough to get ahead of the buzz saw. They were woefully unprepared, and in fact did nothing when coaches, skaters and enlightened members of the skating community were advocating for scoring system review, changes and guidance on the issue of quads very early on in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Therefore by 2010 Olympics, an embarrassing set of circumstances ensued. Then, the ISU came down with a hammer to over-value quads (just as they over-did rushing in implementation of a premature and incompletely revamped scoring system after the much bigger 2002 Olympic pairs judging scandal).

Keep dreaming if you think "men overall have superior skating skills compared to ladies." You need to sign up for gender awareness and sensitivity classes, as well as biology classes pdq.

 

[bardtoob]

I think the men are able to skate with more power, which makes the execution of skating skills appear more impressive. However, I do think the ladies have more nuanced ability precisely because they have less power.

. . . then there is Kostner, Hanyu, and Chan . . .

 

[aftershocks]

... precisely because they have less power.

Power my dear @bardtoob is very much based on individual attributes. While true that male hormones provide men with more muscle strength generally, there are some very strong and powerful women with muscles too. Obviously there are physical differences between men and women, but there's also a great deal of individual variations too among both groups. And the differences between sports should also be factored into the equation before making broad statements about power in relation to gender.

Women can do a lot of things men can do, as well as some things that men simply can not do.

 

[bardtoob]

Power my dear @bardtoob is very much based on individual attributes. While true that male hormones provide men with more muscle strength generally, there are some very strong and powerful women with muscles too. Obviously there are physical differences between men and women, but there's also a great deal of individual variations too among both groups. And the differences between sports should also be factored into the equation before making broad statements about power in relation to gender.

Women can do a lot of things men can do, as well as some things that men simply can not do.

I still think the men are brute gorillas on ice

 

[aftershocks]

I still think the men are brute gorillas on ice

That's just another generalization...

 

[GreatLakesGal]

I can promise you that is does mean less to the athletes. The Team Medals will always have an asterisk.

I think that's probably dependent on the particular athlete. For someone like Adam Rippon, a team bronze is great because he had no chance to make the podium for men's figure skating. But to suggest that Adam's team bronze has the same prestige as Javi's bronze medal is ridiculous--and I say that as someone who much prefers watching Adam to Javi.

For someone like Patrick Chan, who very much wanted to "end the Canadian curse" and become that country's first Olympic gold medal male figure skater, I guess a gold team medal is better than nothing. But the idea that it can even compare to winning an individual gold is just mind boggling to me. If Patrick had managed to do that, it would have totally changed his life and he would not be talking about opening a skating school; he would be the toast of Canada and enjoying all the rewards and opportunities that would surely come with that accomplishment.

 

[Yazmeen]

Put me down as more appreciative of Chan opening a skating school to pass his talents on to future skaters rather than hawking shampoo or standing on tiresome red carpets with supermodels.

Ahh, the sports mindset that anything less than #1 is a loser and that a team medal is worth FAR less than an individual one.(And that is a general statement, GreatLakesGal, not specific criticism directed at you). You are worthless if you’re not #1. I respectfully disagree. And it’s been proven: how many non-skating fans recognize Michelle Kwan vs Sarah Hughes?

And as to the topic, I will be excited to see how Jason progresses under his new coaching TEAM. Can’t wait to see the comments here on which one coach will be held responsible for his success or failure...

 

[aftershocks]

If Patrick had managed to do that, it would have totally changed his life and he would not be talking about opening a skating school; he would be the toast of Canada and enjoying all the rewards and opportunities that would surely come with that accomplishment.

How do you know this? If Patrick had won one individual OGM, or even two like Yuzu, of course there'd be many more opportunities and accolades coming his way, but seriously winning OGM doesn't necessarily make your life happier or ultimately better. While Patrick obviously desired to win an individual OGM, the Team OGM win surely takes a bit of the edge off his personal disappointment.

Patrick may have always had the goal of opening a skating school regardless of whether he achieved his goal of winning an individual OGM.

Another example: Aliona Savchenko was determined to reach her dream of winning OGM in pairs, but even in her feisty determination she surely never lost sight of the obstacles, which is probably what allowed her to develop a successful battle plan. I suspect that happiness in her personal life helped bolster her indefatigable efforts and strengthened her already steely resolve. It's more likely that the journey she's been on, the perspective she's gained, and the calm and joy that came into her life via marriage is what made finally winning the OGM even more special, and perhaps more possible (even when she & Bruno were challenged with staring down defeat after the sp).

 

[Tavi]

Put me down as more appreciative of Chan opening a skating school to pass his talents on to future skaters rather than hawking shampoo or standing on tiresome red carpets with supermodels.

Ahh, the sports mindset that anything less than #1 is a loser and that a team medal is worth FAR less than an individual one.(And that is a general statement, GreatLakesGal, not specific criticism directed at you). You are worthless if you’re not #1. I respectfully disagree. And it’s been proven: how many non-skating fans recognize Michelle Kwan vs Sarah Hughes?

And as to the topic, I will be excited to see how Jason progresses under his new coaching TEAM. Can’t wait to see the comments here on which one coach will be held responsible for his success or failure...

Thank you very much for trying to bring the thread back on topic - I too am excited to see what will happen with Jason and his new team!

One thing I’m curious about: Brian mentioned in one of the articles that in his jump technique - as opposed to Kori’s - the rotation starts sooner. As I’m not a jumper - does anyone know how difficult it is for a skater to change something like this?

 

[mag]

One thing I’m curious about: Brian mentioned in one of the articles that in his jump technique - as opposed to Kori’s - the rotation starts sooner. As I’m not a jumper - does anyone know how difficult it is for a skater to change something like this?

I don’t know for sure, but I suspect it will depend partly on how Jason learned to jump in the first place. If he is one of those people who just sort of was able to learn the jumps without really understanding how he does them, then I think it may be more difficult to change at this point. If he is someone who actually had to think about the mechanics of the jump, learn how to get the rotational speed, how to get the snap, how to get the height, then I think he will have a slightly easier time.

Either way it will be a lot of work.

 

[Inessence]

If Jason's work ethic is anything like many here have stated, he should be well on his way. In many lines of work, trying to impress "the new boss" is a great motivating factor as well.

 

[Japanfan]

For someone like Patrick Chan, who very much wanted to "end the Canadian curse" and become that country's first Olympic gold medal male figure skater, I guess a gold team medal is better than nothing.

IMO Patrick did not want individual gold that badly - not badly enough because it was ended to him on a silver platter (pun intended) in 2014, and he didn't go for it. Skate Canada and some in the country wanted him to get that gold more than he did. I just don't think Patrick thrives on competition.

But the idea that it can even compare to winning an individual gold is just mind boggling to me. If Patrick had managed to do that, it would have totally changed his life and he would not be talking about opening a skating school; he would be the toast of Canada and enjoying all the rewards and opportunities that would surely come with that accomplishment.

He is the toast of Canada in any case. And a very wealthy young man (pix posted a while ago about the new car he bought from a Vancouver dealer). And you don't know that he would not be opening a skating school had he won OG.

 

[Inessence]

He'd probably still open the skating school, just not until after he collected all of his accolades.

 

[jlai]

IMO Patrick did not want individual gold that badly - not badly enough because it was ended to him on a silver platter (pun intended) in 2014, and he didn't go for it. Skate Canada and some in the country wanted him to get that gold more than he did. I just don't think Patrick thrives on competition.
.

I never understand why people keep saying certain champions are not competitive. That's kind of like saying if I don't get 800 in my SAT verbal or Math I am not a competitive person.

Medvedeva is very competitive, yet she didn't win the OGM. Despite her competitiveness, Kwan didn't win it either. Many competitive people don't win OGMs. Also, skaters who have won 3 worlds in a row tend to falter at the Olympics. Winning Olympic gold is about being very lucky + very competitive under the right circumstances (like being an underdog) on a certain day. It doesn't work out for athletes 99% of the time.

Just because you are not like Plushenko doesn't mean one isn't competitive. Heck, even I can be competitive at work under the right circumstanceds.

People say Hanyu is very competitive, but during 2016 and 2015 worlds, he wasn't.

 

[Willin]

Heck, sometimes I think some competitive people are less likely to win the OGM because they want it too badly, leading them to mess up.

 

[barbarafan]

If Jason's work ethic is anything like many here have stated, he should be well on his way. In many lines of work, trying to impress "the new boss" is is a great motivating factor as well.

The big boss is on vacation but time to get his bearings...setup workout schedules and practice his short program san jumps..He and David will also have to decide on music etc for the long and start working on it. He will be quite busy.

 

[bardtoob]

IMO Patrick did not want individual gold that badly - not badly enough because it was ended to him on a silver platter (pun intended) in 2014, and he didn't go for it. Skate Canada and some in the country wanted him to get that gold more than he did. I just don't think Patrick thrives on competition.

DANCE LADY!!!

https://youtu.be/e1uXWhzKBT8
4S landed July 2011, when he was still with a technical coach!

 

[mag]

He'd probably still open the skating school, just not until after he collected all of his accolades.

Patrick Chan currently has more “accolades” than he knows what to do with. I know people want to believe that winning an individual gold would have given him something else, but the reality is he is a big as V&M who have two individual golds.

 

[Inessence]

Patrick Chan currently has more “accolades” than he knows what to do with. I know people want to believe that winning an individual gold would have given him something else, but the reality is he is a big as V&M who have two individual golds.

In that case, the skating school will have to wait. ?

 

[barbarafan]

In that case, the skating school will have to wait. ?

I just hope he goes through with it and sticks to it. That seems to be his problem. He decides on something and is so in to it and all of a sudden he is so out of it. Some people need constant change. Look at his coach changes.

 

[berthesghost]

[

Lots of gripes in figure skating....Frankly team competition at the Olympics is what it is, and it was more fun earlier this year than it was in Sochi, IMO. It sure ain't perfect, but it also ain't the most pressing challenge TPTB need to reconsider and revamp.

exactly! We live in a world where leaders offer distractions instead of solutions. Of all the things that require attention in FS, creating an event where just a select few get to repeat their same programs for no other purpose but to supply the big 3 with more chotckis is nothing more than a distraction away from fixed results, unpunished cheaters, drugging, and let’s face it, it’s been 66 years since button first landed a triple and the sport still seems clueless on how to best judge jump rotation vs skating skills.

I know I shouldnt care, but it is unsetling to come to a message board and have your attempts at discussion immediately shut down as “not worth responding to because it’s only based on jealousy”. Yes, the idea that I only find the team event superfluous because Peggy Fleming doesn’t have a team medal is so stupid it’s but it’s also still rude.

I keep coming to this thread to see if there’s anything new related to Jason’s move to Orser. For example, any word on his David Wilson program? Coachings? If so, I’d love to hear it. ?

i came for the Jason update, but I stayed for the Patrick reading

It’s FSU in the off season. Things are going to be said

 

[barbarafan]

@Tavi Jason posted this instagram yesterday of him and Kaori who is doing choreo. with David Wilson
https://www.instagram.com/stories/jasonbskates/