UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

[skateboy]

I think this idea of Jason (or any skater) being a "top priority" or "low priority" is way overblown. What does that even mean? Coaches/teachers work with many students and give each student the same knowledge, pretty much. After that, it's up to the student to capitalize on that knowledge.

 

[bardtoob]

I can't imagine Brian taking on a student in name only.

 

[nimi]

Catching up with this thread...

Icenetwork article on Jason’s move to Brian Orser with comments from Jason and Brian: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/05/31/279137174

To go back to the previous discussion about Jason's jump technique à la Lussi, it sounds like starting the rotation earlier is something they will be working on:

An inability to master quadruple jumps (Brown never has received full credit for one in competition) has put Brown at a substantial scoring disadvantage against the sport's elite.

"We will be working on his (jumping) technique," Orser said. "It's not that he has bad technique; it's just different from what we teach, especially in terms of when to begin rotating in the air."

It will be interesting to see whether they will make him relearn all his triples with the Orser-style technique or whether it's just the 4T (and possibly 3A) technique they will be focusing on.

 

[LilJen]

Don't care. I am frustrated by Jason. I think he tried too be too cool for hard jumps when he is no Patrick Chan. I would applaud if he did kept some nuances but added 3A, 4T, and 4S, but I don't believe in magic.

Baloney. What Jason went for was consistency, along with great skating skills & superior spins. Can't say Chan had consistency through much of his career, but Jason is, in general, VERY consistent. Meltdowns and big errors are quite rare for him in competition.

But who has WON the BIG events. A lot of top ten men can have a relatively good chance to win a measly Grand Prix event medal. The fact of the matter is Jason has not lived up to his potential...

Hasn't lived up to his potential?? <sigh> Not even gonna try on this one.

 

[Allskate]

But if skaters who have been with Orser longer are more likely to have Orser accompany them to events, that is a pecking order IMO.

Let's say it is a pecking order. Does that necessarily mean that Jason made the wrong decision? I respect the fact that Brian was candid about the situation and I also respect the fact that Brian isn't just taking on a ton of skaters and giving them all short shrift. Jason knows what the situation is and still chose to go there. It sounds like he spent some time with Tracy. I obviously don't know either of them, but for some reason, I can see Jason and Tracy being a good fit in terms of personality and valuing skating skills. For all we know, maybe Jason likes the idea of having Tracy be with him at competitions while having access to Brian's coaching to improve his jumps. I doubt any of the skaters are spending the majority of their ice time with Brian anyway. It's too bad that Jason's injury is delaying his ability to start working with Brian on his jumps.

 

[Willin]

Jason went there to expand his horizons. If he has Orser as his primary coach he may not be able to get as many different perspectives as if he works with a team.

I also get the impression that Jason doesn't care if Orser is his primary coach. One of the things he mentioned is being able to train with his top competitors, and that will happen at TCC regardless of how much time Orser spends with him.

 

[jlai]

Baloney. What Jason went for was consistency, along with great skating skills & superior spins. Can't say Chan had consistency through much of his career, but Jason is, in general, VERY consistent. Meltdowns and big errors are quite rare for him in competition.

Hasn't lived up to his potential?? <sigh> Not even gonna try on this one.

To be fair it is easier to be consistent when you are not attempting the hardest tech content. If Uno, Jin, and Kolyada were attempting only triples at worlds perhaps they would have done clean programs instead of splatting all over.
A lot of US men were pretty consistent with jumps (even Miner was consistent-ish for a while) Until they put the quad in the program. And Jason struggled this past year too.

Just to note Adam eventually mentally separated the quad from the rest of the program. So he could still do a cleanish program even when he never hardly got credit for a clean quad

 

[bardtoob]

Baloney. What Jason went for was consistency, along with great skating skills & superior spins. Can't say Chan had consistency through much of his career, but Jason is, in general, VERY consistent. Meltdowns and big errors are quite rare for him in competition.

No, but Chan has his World Medals, Olympics Medals, and an occasional performance like this, which includes quads and 3As.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHHREHdbVlw

 

[Madhatter]

I'm just adding to your point here ... Jason has never finished below 9th in any competition ever (national or international). How many skaters can say that? Hanyu can't, Fernandez can't.

I'm quite a fan and I'm drawing a blank here: when did Hanyu finish below 9th?

 

[Willin]

@Madhatter I had to look that one up, but apparently at 2009 Junior Worlds he finished 12th. So once, nine years ago. And, surprisingly enough, Jason hasn't finished lower than 9th even at the junior level.

 

[Madhatter]

@Madhatter I had to look that one up, but apparently at 2009 Junior Worlds he finished 12th. So once, nine years ago. And, surprisingly enough, Jason hasn't finished lower than 9th even at the junior level.

Ah, it didn't register on my radar because he must have been around 14 then, and I only kept track of his career when he won everything his next junior season. Pretty cool of Jason though - I looked it up and he placed on the Junior World podium twice - I wonder whether he would have kept to the very top had he made coaching changes back then. (I wonder even more, tbh, what might have been if Adam Rippon hadn't left Orser.)

Edit: just gor fun, I looked up Kolyada - he's never finished below 8th and like Jason, his lowest placement was at the Olympics (unlike Jason, though, that placement was not a positive thing).

 

[bardtoob]

(I wonder even more, tbh, what might have been if Adam Rippon hadn't left Orser.)

That's an interesting thought . . . Fortunately, Adam still got an Olympic Medal and won DWTS on this timeline.

 

[Jaana]

That's an interesting thought . . . Fortunately, Adam still got an Olympic Medal and won DWTS on this timeline.

Rippon did not win an Olympic medal, as a team member he got just the US team bronze medal. In actual competition he placed 10th, IIRC, which is not something really noteworthy.

 

[Japanfan]

Let's say it is a pecking order. Does that necessarily mean that Jason made the wrong decision?

Not necessarily, IMO. When I said there was a pecking order I was responding to your comment about Brian choosing to attend competitions with some skaters rather than others.

Orser's school has a team and I assume that team members are assigned to skaters with care.

However, I could be wrong and there could be a pecking order in the sense that the best of skaters such as Javi, Gabbie, and Yuzu get to work with Brian. But even so, the team approach might still work.

 

[aftershocks]

Ah, but it was a mutual parting of the ways between Adam and Orser. And this happened during a period in which the Yu Na split had Orser a bit out of sorts.

Some coach-student relationships do not work long term. Just because Orser is successful with a number of skaters does not mean he is going to be successful with everyone under the sun. And he knows that very well, which is why he is selective about who he will take on.

Some people mention the Nam split as well, thinking that Nam should never have left The Cricket Club. However, it was Orser who apparently initiated Nam's departure (reportedly in connection with Orser taking issue with Nam's father's interference).

 

[barbarafan]

Ah, but it was a mutual parting of the ways between Adam and Orser. And this happened during a period in which the Yu Na split had Orser a bit out of sorts.

Some coach-student relationships do not work long term. Just because Orser is successful with a number of skaters does not mean he is going to be successful with everyone under the sun. And he knows that very well, which is why he is selective about who he will take on.

Some people mention the Nam split as well, thinking that Nam should never have left The Cricket Club. However, it was Orser who apparently initiated Nam's departure (reportedly in connection with Orser taking issue with Nam's father's interference).

Nam was going through rough times as he had a huge growth spurt and this is when you really have to work hard at strengthening and lengthening those muscles. Nam's father did not believe in off ice work and Nam only did what his father said ignoring coaches. He obviously was never going to improve in that setup. He needed to leave home and train far away from that influence. Which he did.

 

[bardtoob]

That's an interesting thought . . . Fortunately, Adam still got an Olympic Medal and won DWTS on this timeline.

Rippon did not win an Olympic medal, as a team member he got just the US team bronze medal. In actual competition he placed 10th, IIRC, which is not something really noteworthy.

If you want to mince words, I said "got", not "win", DA!

 

[BittyBug]

Rippon did not win an Olympic medal, as a team member he got just the US team bronze medal. In actual competition he placed 10th, IIRC, which is not something really noteworthy.

You may not like the new team event, but the U.S. team and its members did in fact WIN an OLYMPIC bronze medal and it was an ACTUAL (team) competition.

 

[PDilemma]

You may not like the new team event, but the U.S. team and its members did in fact WIN an OLYMPIC bronze medal and it was an ACTUAL (team) competition.

Yeah, I'm not understanding how anyone would consider it to not be a competition. Judges, scoring, audience, television, official sanctioned ISU event and at the Olympics.

It's not like it was a private exhibition at someone's homemade backyard rink and the IOC/ISU showed up with some participation medals. Geesh.

 

[Dobre]

I think most guys who take enough risk to medal are also taking enough risk to finish below tenth at Worlds. It's a scary trend, but it's pretty clear it can happen to anyone.

Which is not to discount the importance of consistently. (It's still the hallmark of a likely champion). Only to say that this trend seems to be more & more common in the men's field.

It's still shocking when a contender bombs a portion of the competition at Worlds and finishes that portion outside the top ten. But it's no longer shocking that some contender bombs a portion of the men's event at Worlds and finishes that portion outside the top ten.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Baloney. What Jason went for was consistency, along with great skating skills & superior spins. Can't say Chan had consistency through much of his career, but Jason is, in general, VERY consistent. Meltdowns and big errors are quite rare for him in competition.

OMHolyG! You make it sound like Chan is a mid-tier skater compared to Jason Brown... Chan is his two first Olympics cycles always deliverd when it counted. That’s what make great champions... Wolrd champions, Olympic medalists, junior world champions, GP final champions...

 

[Yazmeen]

Yeah, I'm not understanding how anyone would consider it to not be a competition. Judges, scoring, audience, television, official sanctioned ISU event and at the Olympics.

It's not like it was a private exhibition at someone's homemade backyard rink and the IOC/ISU showed up with some participation medals. Geesh.

It's not a real competition when the country that includes said poster's favorite skater(s) doesn't do well enough to either qualify for the event or make it to the final...

 

[aftershocks]

OMHolyG! You make it sound like Chan is a mid-tier skater compared to Jason Brown... Chan is his two first Olympics cycles always deliverd when it counted. That’s what make great champions... Wolrd champions, Olympic medalists, junior world champions, GP final champions...

^^ Patrick Chan is an exceptional skater and an influential champion, but he did not always deliver when it counted. He did not get in the medals at his first Olympics in Vancouver (he reportedly was feeling the pressure in his home country). Chan was certainly highly regarded and talented enough to win in that deep 2010 field but he stumbled (after unfortunately having experienced foot-in-mouth disease at 2009 Worlds in Los Angeles, a time when Chan should have been solidifying his rep with the judges and his talent advantage over the likes of challengers such as Evan Lysacek, U.S.'s favored 'can-do' wonder boy who was being pushed by his fed over the more naturally gifted but unfortunately self-conflicted Johnny Weir).

We all sadly remember what happened to Chan in Sochi 2014. The table was set with Hanyu having stumbled in his fp; and Chan was skating last. Unfortunately, Chan's amazing power to put on a clinic abandoned him, while the error yips (which the judges previously tended to mostly forgive) took over, leaving Chan with silver served on a silver platter. With only one mistake, Chan still had a strong chance to win OGM; with two mistakes, it would have been a draw between him & Hanyu yet still an outside chance for Chan to prevail; but with three strikes, Chan was down and out.

It's not a real competition when the country that includes said poster's favorite skater(s) doesn't do well enough to either qualify for the event or make it to the final...

Eh, but it's figure skating @Yazmeen. And them's the rules, no matter how unpopular, no matter how unfair. Seriously, we can debate all day the fairness of regular competition wins under the current opportunity-limiting, country-based selection process.

Oh and yeah, I belatedly see you are being a bit sarcastic...

 

[SmallFairy]

Hey, what's this nonsense? Adam won an Olympic bronze medal with team USA, and skated very well to contribute to it. Someone has the guts to tell Team Canada their gold medal ain't for real?

 

[mag]

He did not get in the medals at his first Olympics in Vancouver (he reportedly was feeling the pressure in his home country).

I have heard from a reliable source that there was absolutely no expectation by his team or SC that Chan would medal in 2010. He was very injured and did well to skate as well as he did.

 

[DreamSkates]

But if skaters who have been with Orser longer are more likely to have Orser accompany them to events, that is a pecking order IMO.

I'd say more like "first come, first served" not a power issue. But we all have an opinion, which doesn't matter because Jason has made a choice and I am excited for what this can potentially do for his skating career.

 

[DreamSkates]

Personally, I would rather see him working with Shae-Lynn than David Wilson. I find her choreography to be more innovative and his to be more fill the box. Jason can handle the former.

Maybe so, but Orser's team seems to put together some high quality programs.

 

[berthesghost]

It's not a real competition when the country that includes said poster's favorite skater(s) doesn't do well enough to either qualify for the event or make it to the final...

I know you’re being snarky, but this is actually true. It’s just an excuse for the greedy top 3 countries to win more medals and boast about themselves more, which is why it annoys some people that skaters like Adam and Mirai who did poorly by US standards can get fake props like “he/she/they are an Olympic medalist!”. Say what you will about Tim G. but he did skate well enough to be the 3rd best man at the Olys. Adam did not. Facts are facts America.

 

[misskarne]

^I'm a lot happier with the concept that Adam and Mirai, who both skated very well in the team event, can call themselves Olympic medallists than I am with one of the skaters from 2014 being able to call himself an Olympic medallist.

And Tim Goebel got some help by Abt being underscored in the SP and then overdoing himself in the FS as a result.

Anyway, interested to see how this goes, but assuming this means that Jason won't make an appearance at the new Peggy Fleming Trophy event, which kills me because that event was practically tailor-made for him (and for Josh, but that's another grief).

 

[el henry]

Oh please, folks. Facts is facts and the team medal is an Olympic medal. Your fav is from a poor fed and can’t qualify for the Olympic team medal? And your fav is clearly individually a “better” skater than someone who did qualify for the team event?

Cry me a river. That doesn’t make the team medal any less gold, silver or bronze, or any less Olympic.

And I can’t wait to see how 2014 Olympic team bronze medalist Jason Brown does at the Cricket Club.

ETA: although I agree with @misskarne that Jason’s inability to skate at the Broadmoor Artistic comp is