Ohyes
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Not when Sarah Hughes, Adelina Sotnikova, beatrix schuba and tara Lipinski exist.
Christine Brennan USA Today launches war on Zagitova!
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Ohyes
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If she was American they would be hyping her as the godamn queen/GOAT of figure skating just like they did with Nathan
gkelly
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Where do you find that definition?
The current Program Components chart defines the Transitions component as "The varied and purposeful use of intricate footwork, positions, movements and holds that link all elements." As I understand it, that includes not only the moves directly preceding or following an element, but also all the in-between moves that skaters use to get from point A to point B, including unlisted highlight moves that do not connect directly to any element.
In the old detailed program component descriptions, the definition of Transitions read "The varied and/or intricate footwork, positions, movements, and holds that link all elements. In singles, pairs, and synchronize skating this also includes the entrances and exits of technical elements."
I.e., not only the entrances and exits of technical elements.
He was not campaigning against a skater. He was campaigning against scoring PCS on reputation or basing all components on the Skating Skills score, exactly the sort of thing that fans campaign against as well.
The general definition of the Composition component is "An intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space, pattern, and structure."
The words "balanced program" do not appear anywhere in the PCS criteria.
The closest thing in the old definitions, which are not now in use, was "Proportion (equal weight of all parts)
Each part and section has equal weight in achieving the aesthetic pursuit of the composition."
That could refer temporal parts and sections of the duration of the program (e.g., beginning, middle, and end).
It could also refer to spatial parts and sections of the ice surface. In that sense a program with some jumps in the middle of the ice surface would be better balanced than one with all jumps at the two ends of the ice. Worst would be a program with all jumps at the same end of the ice.
Same for the spin placement. And a senior freeskate that contains a circular step sequence and a circular choreo sequence both at the same end of the ice would likely also feel unbalanced.
The phrase "well-balanced programs" has been officially applied since the mid-1990s to refer to number of each kind of element expected or required or allowed in a freeskate, to avoid skaters relying heavily on one kind of skill and neglecting other whole categories of skills entirely. Or having high difficulty or complexity in one type of element and excessive simplicity in other areas -- types of elements and/or types of component skills.
There are currently rules in place that officially limit the number of each kind of element and that officially reward jump elements done late in a program. These limitations and rewards are applied to the TES.
There is nothing explicit about exactly what aspects of "balanced" programs should be rewarded or penalized in any of the PCS. That is left up to each individual judge. They are supposed to take the structure of the program into account, but there is no template for what constitutes a good or bad structure.
Different skaters will find different layouts that work for their skills and their music and their concept for the program.
"Originality of the composition" is also part of the Composition component. Right now, it's still quite original to choose the unusual layout of placing all the jumps toward the end. If many other skaters start emulating that strategy, it will become less original and perhaps start to feel overused. Meanwhile, some skaters will make that layout work better with the musical structure and program theme than others, and the ones who make it work better should score higher.
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Foolhardy Ham Lint
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In honour of the ten percent bonus, the Kirov ballet is going to present their latest production of Don Quixote with 90 minutes of chasses and plies, then for 10 minutes straight, nothing but pirouettes, autés, arabesques, double and triple cabrioles.
MAXSwagg
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NO MORE RULES. We need LESS rules not more. It isn't even the system's fault. It's because the judges are using the system as they see fit. The judges obviously don't see it as a problem. If they did, they would reduce the component marks.
Dr.Siouxs
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Zags doesn't bug me as much as Lipniskaia from 4 years ago, at least her basics are better.
arakwafan2006
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I think that a good rule would be your most difficult jump after the half( or combo) gets the bump. Whether it's "balanced" or not, this is sport and though I don't like the layout, she's one hell of an athlete to be able to do it.
Moskvina once said ( before the Sochi ladies event might i add) that the marks are insignificant because usually, the best skater wins. If Alina wins or if Evgenia wins, she's right. They're both great.
Moskvina once said ( before the Sochi ladies event might i add) that the marks are insignificant because usually, the best skater wins. If Alina wins or if Evgenia wins, she's right. They're both great.
dinakt
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The point is not to render meaningless many ISU paragraphs that are devoted to describing what PCS consist of, and not to make meaningless achievements of skaters who actually present superior PCS. If Alina can still win while getting 8s in PCS, more power to her! But if Osmond, Medvedeva, Kostner, Miyahara come close to Zagitova on TES, they absolutely should be winning the event. The point is to make the criteria matter.
This. And re: Zagitova and Kostornaya- great example, and I do not think "just taste". Kostornaya is a superior interpreter with a gorgeous carriage. She would be the one deserving the high PCS marks.I guess I differ with you on two things: first, for me personally, the first half of Zagitova’s program doesn’t work. I think it’s Kostornaya who uses the same structure - all jumps in the second half - but in her case, I don’t notice an imbalance in the program because her skating is just so beautiful that it mesmerizes me. Just taste, I guess.
But as to PCS - Zagitova is a wonderful talent and I really like a lot of what she does. But if she only deserves 8s in PCS, then IMO that’s what she should be getting, on principle. And even if it’s “only” Kostner and Medvedeva who will then be competitive with her - don’t they deserve that chance? I think they do.
Funny moment from watching Russian TV, Men's LP:
TAT was beyond complimentary of Nathan. Then Adam skated, and while TAT was overall positive, she said- "But to me the first part is boring. He is just resting and waiting to put his better jumps in the second half to get points".
LOL.
IceAlisa
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What is Brennan saying that hasn't been said and why exactly is this controversial? Most fans agree that Alina should be rewarded in TES to the full extent. The problem people are having are the PCS marks. The ridiculous IN, CH, and SS. She is sloppy, rushed, hunched over and has perpetually flexed feet. What ballet? The program IS unbalanced and that should be reflected in the CH score, while all the bonuses and GOEs given in TES for the jumps in the second half. She is slow, per multiple sources who have seen her live and whose opinions I respect. Yet the TES bleeds into the PCS on a ridiculous scale. THAT's the problem and it has been voiced many times over. Why the shock and confusion?
And no one directs any of the criticism directly at Alina. She is a 15 year old child. But her handlers are definitely responsible.
Now Kostornaia, as @dinakt said, is an entirely different story. Gorgeous everything.
And no one directs any of the criticism directly at Alina. She is a 15 year old child. But her handlers are definitely responsible.
Now Kostornaia, as @dinakt said, is an entirely different story. Gorgeous everything.
sk9tingfan
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Jackie Wong reported a few hours ago that Zagitova did a 3Lutz followed by 4 triple loops! How is that possible?
IceAlisa
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That is truly amazing
How are her handlers responsible? They don't score her. Yes she could use some polishing still but I find her fun to watch and I can tell you several non skating fans who call her beautiful.
They gave her programs that show her off best possible to win as much points which is what they should do and are pod to do.
MAXSwagg
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There is no issue with Med or Zag winning. The issue is that they are not THAT much better than the rest of the ladies to where they don't even have a chance. In my opinion. And there is no way Med and Zag especially (or any of the other ladies, really) should be getting 10s (!!) or even 9.50 for skating skills!
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IceAlisa
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I am really happy for the non-skating fans. I can find a lot of them who feel differently, so what? Team Eteri did not give her programs to show her off, they gave her very ill-suited programs but also the amazing tech content. The latter seems to be the only thing that matters, however. The association with ballet just underscores how sloppy she is.
But lots don't know that my mom studied ballet for years not professionally but she knows a little and lovesss her. Not everyone dissects things to minute detail. And the points do.
IceAlisa
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So what? I am happy for your mom. But I know several professional ballet dancers and a retired one who are unanimously horrified. I also studied ballet, btw.
I don't think mom was looking close enough I just like how the music is timed to the jumps. I could watch her jump and spin All. Day. Long. And I think there is useful charm to her. And I want Med to win.
IceAlisa
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These are all valid points. However, Brennan's and everyone else's argument still stands.
But don't you see the latest impression is those glorious jumps and spins.
IceAlisa
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Sure! They are great and should and are rewarded. No one is saying that people shouldn't like her. There's a lot to admire and I absolutely admire her tech ability. But there's so much that rubs me wrong, but more importantly, so much that doesn't correspond to the stated PCS criteria.
I guess to me not perfect and yes Kaitlynn was robbed in comparison. But at least she performs and has some personality take her over Bradie anyway of week and jumps tied to music does add to pcs.
Besides i fail to see how having five jumps a la Wagner in second half is so much more balanced. She has transitions too.
One thing I'm glad to see the fluff piece made Med likeable which she is
IceAlisa
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You don't see the difference between two jumps in the first half vs. no jumps in the first half?
ETA: Totally agree about Kaetlyn and Bradie
So, should we get rid of the Zayak rule? And should we allow an unlimited number of jumps?
That's strength and control. But I hope she doesn't damage her hip. I suspect that lots of loop combos were not good for Tara Lipinski.
Sylvia
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NBC just showed this practice clip during their late night coverage (when Lipinski & Weir visited Mike Tirico on set).
Those are separate issues. Zayak rule is about doing the same jump over and over again. This is very different.
You said you want them to be able to prove athletic superiority. I asked whether they should be able to do unlimited jumps? Wouldn't it prove athletic superiority to do twenty jumps in a program?
Yes, the Zayak rule is designed to provide some balance. So is having a program that isn't front-loaded or back-loaded. The Zayak rule does arguably limit someone's ability to show athletic superiority. A skater wouldn't be allowed to do a bunch of quad axels even if they could do it.
Zag's LP is actually a guilty pleasure of mineI love it and the girl has so much spunk. There's something very genuine and endearing about her.
American girls don't backload programs because it's bloody hard! Duh! That's why Zag gets more points
I have no problem with her TES. She fully deserves those. I think many of us question her high PCS. Her marks for execution are well deserved, but in some other categories she is over scored (like SS about same as Carolina's).
However, she is not the only one. The problem is that in general the judges give high PCS if the TES are high. If there was enough variation in each category of PCS, her overall PCS would be lower. She will still be winning, just not by such huge margins. I see her as the Lipinski of her generation (no offense to either one). She does the most difficult jumps, is highly energetic and is enjoyable to watch. In Alina's defense she has better technique than Tara.
The flaws mentioned by some are real (lack of posture, lines). She needs to improve in that area. That is not a backloading or a stamina issue. She is still very enjoyable but she is not quite there yet artistically. I hope she will stick around for another quarter if she wins the OGM this time.
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Here's a clip:
https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/966560375029170178
That might get her perfect PCS score.
Again, I disagree. The Zayak rule is about repeating a jump. A skater has to do different jumps. That shows athletic superiority. Talking about 20 jumps or unlimited axels is ridiculous, because a FS program is not a jumping contest. That's why there are rules in place limiting the number of jumps. Backloading is rewarded because skaters were frontloading, and not doing jumps late in the program, on tired legs, so they wanted to reward those who could do it. I think the rule makers never suspected that some skaters would do all the jumps in the second half (but only a few can do it). I think there will be rule changes coming to fix the problem of unbalanced programs.
Loves_Shizuka
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