From Russia with love [#28]: Autumn to Winter 2017

[Vash01]

Sorry, V/T mostly had good programs. JCS may not have been so good at Sochi but it was amazing at Skate America. Their return programs of Bollywood and Dracula were also amazing and the most difficult of any pair that season (let’s not forget that crap LP that Aliona and Bruno skated to in 2015-16 as well, that was clearly her idea). Swan Lake and Romeo & Juliet were also very good.

Also most of Stolbova/Klimov programs have been very good also. People act like Mozer is 100% miss.

I loved their Bollywood and Dracula programs but they finished in 6th place at worlds!

I actually liked JCS in the Olympics.

Other than these and Masq. Waltz i cant even remember their programs.

 

[Vash01]

Megan & Eric were hugging, and Megan was somewhere between smiling and crying while holding her head. She kind of looked like she was shocked, and yet also relieved.

That doesn't sound 'disgusting'. Sounds like a natural reaction.

 

[chapis]

And how is the hype about Alina and Evgenia in Russia?, I guess it not close to that Yulia faced in Sochi, Thank God.

 

[Vash01]

Is Moskvina planning to coach till 100? K/S also didn’t win a medal for Russia at the Olympics. I will keep T/M with the same coaching team and may be hire a good choreographer for the team. Hopefully one of the bizzillon junior teams will Challenge them at the nationals.

Based on what's been going on with Russian pairs for the last Olympic quarter, i think it is best for Mozer to retire and let other coaches rekindle the flame. Mozer's approach has clearly not worked. She lucked into V&T in 2014.

Do you think Mozer can give them that packaging? I don't. Hence the coaching change they need.

ITA. May be it is the packaging, may be something else, but this is clearly not working for T&M. Unfortunately my gut says they are going to stick with her unless she retires, and I don't think she will.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

(and Duhamel's reaction when Tarasova just broke down in the K&C was disgusting). Did it occur to anyone that this is what they wanted to skate to? Or that they like it and believe in it?

Your fandom tricks your perspective, my friend... Detachment gives better sight.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Based on what's been going on with Russian pairs for the last Olympic quarter, i think it is best for Mozer to retire and let other coaches rekindle the flame. Mozer's approach has clearly not worked. She lucked into V&T in 2014.

She seem to have lucked into S&K as well. A brilliant team with great technique and personal taste. They were fantastic before injury and politics derailed them. I still hope they can fight back because their too good to retire like this.

That 1-2 punch in Sochi seems to have been a curse rather then a blessing

 

[NAOTMAA]

Sorry double post

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't know that T/M need new coaches, but even if Moskvina isn't taking on new pairs, I think T/M could really use her as a choreographer.

ETA: Moser recognized the talent of and negotiated for a Pairs woman from an OES country, worked through the release delays, and coached her and her partner, Russia #3, to a seventh-place finish at their first Olympics, and they made the team outright.

Even with home-field advantage, Bazarova/Larionov, Russia #3 in Sochi and at their second Olympics, were in 6th, and only by .07 over Duhamel/Radford. They were 11th in Vancouver as Russia #3. Obertas/Slavnov, Russia #3 in Torino, were 8th at their first Olympics.

Totmianina Marinin were wonderful when they skated to Snow storm, Ave Maria and Scheherazade.

What made me love them was their Grieg SP.

I think it is very sad that in the last three Olympics, Russian pairs made the podium just once. It was a gold

S/K

But if the Russian Fed gives up on Mozer will that mean we will no longer receive such golden quotes from her?

We'll all ways have Ivana Komova.

That's the answer I think, they thought, if they skate clean, with their power and speed, it won't matter if they skate to screaching cats

Then they should hire Kyle Davis, a Pacific Northwest Ballet dancer who choreographer part if a student ballet to bird calls, and it was really good.

But ITA that such a horrific program -- composition and interpretation -- is granted close PCS to truly great programs

With the exception of Masquerade Waltz, V&T didn't have great programs

ITA. Candyman wasn't much worse than Jesus Christ Superstar, program-wise, IMO.

 

[Tyranid]

I don't see a lot of love in this "from Russia with love" thread... The scoring was fine. Please relax.

Man, these Olympics drive people mad.

edit: Obviously, the responsibility lies on Mozer. It's just another example of why monopolies are bad.

 

[caseyedwards]

T/M aren't the most charismatic, but they can perform nicely if given proper material. But yeah...all their LPs so far have been crap. It seems like they themselves don't quite know what suits them and they don't get proper stylistic guidance from their team. It's a shame, they're so talented. And you actually see their potential in the SP, but it gets buried by tackiness in the LP.

Were they stronger performers, they might cover up bad programs. V/T have skated their fair share of generic nonsense and gotten away with it. Someone mentioned Ghost...IMO hot contender for worst FD of all time. Yet at Euros that year, I/K, for all that they were trainwreck central for most of their career, performed the heck out of it and made the judges forget what a monstrosity they were watching. T/M can't do that, and they obviously don't have strong enough instincts when it comes to chosing suitable vehicles for themselves. They need help.

It’s true that at euros Ghost was almost a winner! But then even though I/k were inconsistent anyway when they got to Canada and all the crowd and commentators and reporters were like “this is maybe the worst free dance of all time” they were 16th in TES! Incredible. There were 20 teams. The extreme negativity and hostility of Canada worlds was not like a euros filled with Russians! So they collapsed! Same thing with t/m in Pyeongchang. Euros in Moscow did not prepare them for the blowtorch of hatred the program would face in Pyeongchang.

I don't know that T/M need new coaches, but even if Moskvina isn't taking on new pairs, I think T/M could really use her as a choreographer.


What made me love them was their Grieg SP.


S/K


We'll all ways have Ivana Komova.


Then they should hire Kyle Davis, a Pacific Northwest Ballet dancer who choreographer part if a student ballet to bird calls, and it was really good.

But ITA that such a horrific program -- composition and interpretation -- is granted close PCS to truly great programs


ITA. Candyman wasn't much worse than Jesus Christ Superstar, program-wise, IMO.

All the commentators were not saying v/t were doing worst program of all time! There wasn’t love but you didn’t have Weir lipinski belbin Hamilton like mock hiding their faces when taking about it! Everyone in tv was embarrassed to talk about t/m. People were actually embarrassed to see them.

I don't see a lot of love in this "from Russia with love" thread... The scoring was fine. Please relax.

Man, these Olympics drive people mad.

The scoring was fine AND T/M must be fixed!

Though I do remember when domnina and shabalin did aboriginal in shows because people were actually curious to see it! They were retiring anyway and complied but even though some might be curious to see candyman themselves I doubt it’s ever seen again!

 

[Ka3sha]

Boikova/Kozlovsky working on the quad twist, looks like Stanislav Morozov also works with them (he is sitting on the coach)
https://instagram.com/p/BfOEJ3DH-t5/

 

[quiqie]

I didn't remember when his father passed away, but I know that he was sick for a long time. So it wasn't as bad as not being allowed to visit his father's deathbed, but it still wasn't great that he wasn't allowed to go for whatever hypocritical reason Vassiliev had at the time.

He wasn’t sick for a long time, that’s why his death was such a shock for everyone. Trankov’s issue was that Maria lied about needing to visit her sick grandmother and sneaked off with Vasiliev to some tropical islands instead while he was left training by himself at a summer camp in Sochi.

 

[Vash01]

I don't know that T/M need new coaches, but even if Moskvina isn't taking on new pairs, I think T/M could really use her as a choreographer.

ETA: Moser recognized the talent of and negotiated for a Pairs woman from an OES country, worked through the release delays, and coached her and her partner, Russia #3, to a seventh-place finish at their first Olympics, and they made the team outright.

Even with home-field advantage, Bazarova/Larionov, Russia #3 in Sochi and at their second Olympics, were in 6th, and only by .07 over Duhamel/Radford. They were 11th in Vancouver as Russia #3. Obertas/Slavnov, Russia #3 in Torino, were 8th at their first Olympics.


What made me love them was their Grieg SP.


S/K


We'll all ways have Ivana Komova.


Then they should hire Kyle Davis, a Pacific Northwest Ballet dancer who choreographer part if a student ballet to bird calls, and it was really good.

But ITA that such a horrific program -- composition and interpretation -- is granted close PCS to truly great programs


ITA. Candyman wasn't much worse than Jesus Christ Superstar, program-wise, IMO.

Sorry i forgot to mention S&K in Sochi.

Your points about Mozer's Success with Z&E are valid, but it seems once they got to Russia, she was not able to give them good programs. Their LP this year was awful. Why dudnt they just skate to the Sleeping beauty music instead if a gimmicky program? I am not sure she can find the rightnprograms for her skaters.

I don't see a lot of love in this "from Russia with love" thread... The scoring was fine. Please relax.

Man, these Olympics drive people mad.

edit: Obviously, the responsibility lies on Mozer. It's just another example of why monopolies are bad.

I didnt read anyone complaining about last night's scores or results in this thread.

 

[quiqie]

TAT crying and hugging Alyona Savchenko: https://matchtv.ru/olimpijskije_igr..._Slezy_Aleny_Savchenko_i_objatija_s_Tarasovoj

 

[kwanfan1818]

Their LP this year was awful. Why dudnt they just skate to the Sleeping beauty music instead if a gimmicky program? I am not sure she can find the rightnprograms for her skaters.

I'm not arguing that Mozer's taste in FS's isn't at least is about on par with her taste in ponchos, but I don't think her general coaching approach needs to be tossed, only in her lack of discrimination in green-lighting abysmal programs and not bringing in the right choreographers.

Even if Mozer were perfect, though, I think it's healthier to have multiple great training centers, and it's a good sign that St. Petersburg is starting to get traction.

Szolkowy is on her team, and he and Savchenko had some great programs. I don't understand why at least that influence doesn't bubble up to the top.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I'm sure Mozer has a lot of wonderful qualities as a coach otherwise she wouldn't be where she is now. But it seems to me that she'd be best served as part of a team, one of the screws in the machine, because as head honcho she leaves A LOT to be desired.

Some are born to be head driver while others are born to be simply in the pit crew. Mozer seems like a pit crew person. Being in the pit crew is very important so nothing to be ashamed about.

How did she get V&T? I almost think they picked her because they knew they could have their way with her. I only think of that because if Trankov'a history with Vasiliev and him finally wantin control

 

[MAXSwagg]

I loved their Bollywood and Dracula programs but they finished in 6th place at worlds!

I actually liked JCS in the Olympics.

Other than these and Masq. Waltz i cant even remember their programs.

V/T finishing 6th has nothing to do with the programs. You now they had technical and health issues right before that Worlds.

And remembering programs applies to many skaters. There are many Savchenko/Szookowy and Pang/Tong programs I do not have a clue about even those I watched those competitions. Savchenko/Szolkowy 2012-2013 programs were also weird. So I wouldn't say Aliona has all of this "creative insight" like everyone else. Frankly, after 2011, their programs dropped significantly in quality.

 

[Amy L]

Boikova/Kozlovsky working on the quad twist, looks like Stanislav Morozov also works with them (he is sitting on the coach)
https://instagram.com/p/BfOEJ3DH-t5/

Stanislav is a great trainer on the twists, V&T and T&M learned theirs from him, so B&K are in good hands.

 

[aftershocks]

Here are my thoughts on T/M, excerpted from their fan thread:
I have always said that I'm waiting to see T/M breakout with something much more worthy of their talent and potential. It's just so OTT that T/M consistently receive high scores in areas they need to work on. I do not think that will help them grow and develop into a better team. That's the fault of the sport and the way it's run though.

But it's T/M's and their coaches' fault for not making any effort at all to change out their fp this season, especially for the Olympics! That's not an Olympic medal-worthy fp. They stubbornly seemed to think they didn't need to change it, even with all the loud consensus in fs community that their fp did not work for them. If they had made more of an effort to find something more suitable to their aesthetic, they may have made the Olympic podium and bumped off D/R.

So, T/M made their bed and they have to lie in it. Hopefully, this might wake them up for next season. I want to see a team as talented as T/M are, not cruise on their tech precision and SS with lousy programs and costumes, and dead personalities. I'd like to see T/M help elevate the sport, and work it on all cylinders with the astounding brilliance that is within their reach. It's a shame and an insult that T/M's coaching team and Russians in general think they are so good they can rest on their snooty 'Russian-aesthetic tradition' laurels.

I don't paint every Russian skater that way. Tat and Max were gorgeous together and they did try to do more, but as an older team when they paired up, they simply ran out of time. I think Stolbova/Klimov explored finding ways to grow as skaters (that's why it's so doubly sad for them to be mixed up in any way with the doping situation). S/K are way more interesting and delightful a team to watch than T/M. It's just S/K's loss of consistency on some elements, and the fact the Russian fed seemed to favor T/M over S/K quite often. I also have high hopes for Ashtakova/Rogonov under Dmitriev! A/R are an exciting team to watch when they are in the zone. It's sad they didn't hold up in the fp in Pyeongchang.

I'm also sad that the sexy Bazarova/Deputat pairing did not find many supporters! Such a shame no one decided to put any effort into helping them improve their consistency, because they were very hot together on the ice. Zabijako/Enbert win out over a much more interesting B/D, simply because Z/E are in Mozer's camp! Zhulin stuck all these years with helping to elevate Bobrova/Soloviev in ice dance, and no one could help Bazarova/Deputat in pairs, when she (Vera) finally let go of the lumberjack and found her match!

 

[rfisher]

I laugh at the Mozer snark. The judges don't have issues with her skaters. Tar/Mor made mistakes. When clean they do very well. There is no reason for them to change coaches. They seem satisfied with Robin who is the primary coach. Moser is a faciliator. They are young and still finding there own style. They'll be fine.

And some of the same people who complain anout their lack of connection did the same about Aliona and Bruno. And Volo/Trankov.

 

[hanca]

Stanislav is a great trainer on the twists, V&T and T&M learned theirs from him, so B&K are in good hands.

I don’t think S Morozov is that great coach. He did have relatively easy ride with Volosozhar/Trankov, but since then he had several juniors and none of them ever went anywhere. He had Gainedtinova who had all her triple jumps up to Lutz because she was ex single skater. She did triple Lutz with Bich too. And yet the partneship with a new partner did not go anywhere. He had a few more junior pairs and none of them got to international competitions or even qualified to the nationals.

 

[Amy L]

I meant specifically as a twist teacher, not as a coach in general.

 

[DimaToe]

It’s hilarious seeing all of you trying to blame that tacky LP for T/M not medaling. It was their mistakes that kept them from medalling. Had Candyman been clean they would’ve won, if they only had one mistake they would’ve still medaled even with that program.

 

[caseyedwards]

It’s hilarious seeing all of you trying to blame that tacky LP for T/M not medaling. It was their mistakes that kept them from medalling. Had Candyman been clean they would’ve won, if they only had one mistake they would’ve still medaled even with that program.

I am doing that! It was impossible to be clean because aside form normal pressures like first Olympics and skating last for gold, and the door being opened, there was pressure of worst program of all time fall from all skating people in Pyeongchang! Honestly I was shocked because of how mild they had been about Jesus Christ superstar how thoroughly blunt the hatred of Candyman was and how all people agreed it didn’t belong and shouldn’t be skated and how desperate they were that it not be on the podium! Weir lipinski belbin Hamilton browning and so many others! No one could perform under those conditions under so much usual pressure. There is precedent for horrible performances after fine ones of bad programs after great ones at smaller competitions. It’s just that everyone seems to agree that it was normal pressures that got to t/m and not all of the worst program of all time talk.

 

[Cherub721]

How did she get V&T? I almost think they picked her because they knew they could have their way with her. I only think of that because if Trankov'a history with Vasiliev and him finally wantin control

Mozer hired Stas Morozov and Tatiana wanted to follow him.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I laugh at the Mozer snark. The judges don't have issues with her skaters. Tar/Mor made mistakes. When clean they do very well. There is no reason for them to change coaches. They seem satisfied with Robin who is the primary coach. Moser is a faciliator. They are young and still finding there own style. They'll be fine.

And some of the same people who complain anout their lack of connection did the same about Aliona and Bruno. And Volo/Trankov.

Obviously they would have done better if they skated clean. But the program is, IMO, the worst pairs LP ever given to Olympic medal contenders. The costumes, the packaging, the music, the pacing, the choreo - everything is simply sub-standard even for junior skaters. My 10 year old son commented on Evgenia's costume and said that she is dressed like girls at his school. He is a 3rd grader!!! Think about it for a second.

 

[Yazmeen]

My husband rarely watches skating even though he has skated. But he watched the final 4 last night with me. He was completely perplexed about T/M's costumes and how they related to the program and what they were trying to portray. After dinner just now I showed him Christina's actual video for "Candyman." He joined me on the "what were they thinking???" team. Also, for those of you younger than me, this was basically the original inspiration for "Candyman." Meet the Andrews Sisters: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8of3uhG1tCI

 

[NAOTMAA]

So.....Aliev just crushed Kolyada by a whopping 12+ points in the men's SP.........snickering

inserts Meryl Steep "these are the moments that make life worth living" gif

I don't want to celebrate the failure of another skater (especially one I like) but it serves the Russian fed. right for having such ridiculous tunnel vision

 

[Xela M]

Sorry, V/T mostly had good programs. JCS may not have been so good at Sochi but it was amazing at Skate America. Their return programs of Bollywood and Dracula were also amazing and the most difficult of any pair that season (let’s not forget that crap LP that Aliona and Bruno skated to in 2015-16 as well, that was clearly her idea). Swan Lake and Romeo & Juliet were also very good.

Also most of Stolbova/Klimov programs have been very good also. People act like Mozer is 100% miss.

I do agree with this. V&T had some amazing programs and their Sochi SP was an absolute masterpiece. S&K's programs for the past few years have also been excellent.

T&M stand out from the crowd when it comes to monstrous programs.

 

[Dobre]

So.....Aliev just crushed Kolyada by a whopping 12+ points in the men's SP.

I don't want to celebrate the failure of another skater (especially one I like) but it serves the Russian fed. right for having such ridiculous tunnel vision

Knew someone would say this.

But, IMO, it's just as well for Aliev that the Russian Fed has left him out of the spotlight. He's having to earn his way, and it's been good for him this season.

Tarasova & Morozov are young. They stood up well for Russia, IMO. Lost to some amazing performers & competitors, but it's a good experience. I wish they had a great deal more expression, in any style. But they had a strong season and two strong SP performances here so something to build on for the future.